MsJayne Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, alphamale said: people behave much better during the first three months of dating. after that many women start to think they own you and start behaving differently. I have heard women say the same about men. most people can't put on the "show" for more than 3-4 months, in general I know that I tend to treat someone better for the initial stage of dating someone new Spot on, and with men the 3 month mark is when they'll start taking you for granted, or if they're hiding an abusive side it will start to rear it's ugly head. I think this is why very few of my relationships make it past the 3 months - my current one is at that mark right now, so I'm waiting to see which rabbit he pulls out of his hat..........
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: I'm still not following. I think I'm polite but I would always expect a man to offer to pick me up for a date. Meeting me there is fine if it was off OLD & I didn't know him. Also if we were coming from opposite directions, meeting is more practical but I want the offer. Similarly even if I offer to pay for the date, I secretly want the guy to decline. I almost always "got it next time" or bought after dinner something -- drinks, desert, movie tickets etc. However if I really didn't like the guy & never wanted to see him again I always paid the check when he went to the bathroom just so I could get the heck out of there. Even now, I'll say something to my husband like -- "hey I just put $$ in the checking account; take me out to dinner." Even though it's our money I like the fact that he goes through the trouble of paying the check. It's silly but it's how I feel. My mother never paid for a thing in my father's presence & I rarely did except on his birthday or their anniversary. Women want to be chased because we have been conditioned to believe that men value things they have to work for & a man will lose respect for us if we make it too easy for him. It's a real push pull on both sides. You have to show enough interest to keep the guy coming back but not so much that he thinks you are "easy" or that no effort is required on his part. We want to make sure that Netflix & chill doesn't become the standard date going forward. It's not a matter of best behavior but setting & fulfilling expectations. "A real push pull" is a very elegant yet simplistic way to describe the process. The chase can be exciting and fun for both with a little effort and desire.
alphamale Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 38 minutes ago, preraph said: Different times and I ran with an unconventional crowd, though. what do you mean by "unconventional crowd"?
Author Shining One Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) I just don't consider putting in little to no effort as good behavior. I'm doing all of the planning and paying while she's just showing up (on the first date) and getting chauffeured after that. I understand that most women have these expectations, that's not in question. What is in question is how is that lack of effort and investment considered her best behavior. Let's say I continued dating the woman in question and we entered a relationship. At that point, she starts arranging dates and paying for some. I would argue that her behavior at that stage is better than her behavior at the beginning. Edited February 26, 2020 by Shining One
SumGuy Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, simpycurious said: How so??? What is considered "mainstream" online or off? By on-line I mean what appear to be common views and opinions on the internet, such as LS but several other sites and blogs have seen. So in a sense the internet masses. Offline I mean the social circles and people I know. As to women I connect with not being part of the "mainstream" it's just I've been told many times I'd never find what I've already found. So I must be sampling some wonderful subset of non-judgmental, chill, open minded, smart, successful, can do, sexy women.
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, SumGuy said: By on-line I mean what appear to be common views and opinions on the internet, such as LS but several other sites and blogs have seen. So in a sense the internet masses. Offline I mean the social circles and people I know. As to women I connect with not being part of the "mainstream" it's just I've been told many times I'd never find what I've already found. So I must be sampling some wonderful subset of non-judgmental, chill, open minded, smart, successful, can do, sexy women. By all means, please stick with the latter group of ladies.......and thank you for answering my question
littleblackheart Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, Shining One said: When I say disconnect, I mean I'm not making the connection with her actions (or lack thereof) and good behavior. It seems as though you have a specific set of unspoken expectations that can't be met, because you are preempting any issues by planning / taking care of everything. Maybe either plan less and let things flow naturally, or clearly spell out what you are looking for to your dates.
Gaeta Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Me: When we started dating my legs were always shaven and smooth, my hair was perfect night and day, my nails always freshly done. After a few months I drop that because it's humanly impossible to maintain this on daily basis in my world. Him: When we started dating I'd asked my boyfriend to fix something he'd hurry to fix it right away, last time I asked him to put up a shelve it took 8 months for him to get to it. It's normal to be more relaxed with each other. In terms of character we both remain pretty much the same since we met. Being kind to each other is something we do daily. 1
Miss Spider Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Shining One said: I just don't consider putting in little to no effort as good behavior. I'm doing all of the planning and paying while she's just showing up (on the first date) and getting chauffeured after that. I understand that most women have these expectations, that's not in question. What is in question is how is that lack of effort and investment considered her best behavior. Let's say I continued dating the woman in question and we entered a relationship. At that point, she starts arranging dates and paying for some. I would argue that her behavior at that stage is better than her behavior at the beginning. That would be like a woman saying the guy didn’t bring her flowers on the first date, so how could he really be on his best behavior?. There’s no expectation for a woman to initiate and invest in the beginning, so why would she do that?
preraph Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 49 minutes ago, alphamale said: what do you mean by "unconventional crowd"? Hippie subculture and then music subculture. A huge percentage of them were not focused on getting married and having a family. A lot of them we're not religiously conventional. It's just a different world. 1
Author Shining One Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 39 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: There’s no expectation for a woman to initiate and invest in the beginning, so why would she do that? What would you consider appropriate expectations for her behavior to be measured by? Cooking perhaps?
Happy Lemming Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: That would be like a woman saying the guy didn’t bring her flowers on the first date... If I'm going to a woman's home to pick her up for a date, I don't go there empty handed. How hard is it to swing by Trader Joe's or similar store and grab a $4-$5 bunch of flowers. I remember at a young age, my mother always told me don't show up empty handed, maybe I'm "old school" but that seems like a good idea. Now if the woman raves about the flowers and makes a big deal about them, then I'll repeat with more and maybe better flowers. If she just throws them on the counter, then maybe next time I'll try a bottle of "two buck chuck" wine from TJ's and see if that goes over better. For me... if a $4-$5 bouquet of flowers is going to make or break me, then I've got no business dating in the first place. 1 1 1
Miss Spider Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Just what women on dates are generally expected to be/act. Well dressed/good appearance, open, kind, intelligent, confident, mentally stable, interesting. Depends a little bit on what the guy is looking for though Edited February 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
SumGuy Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 46 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Just what women on dates are generally expected to be/act. Well dressed/good appearance, open, kind, intelligent, confident, mentally stable, interesting. Depends a little bit on what the guy is looking for though Isn’t that kind of baseline for both men and women? In the stereotypical world we are discussing. 2 1
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: If I'm going to a woman's home to pick her up for a date, I don't go there empty handed. How hard is it to swing by Trader Joe's or similar store and grab a $4-$5 bunch of flowers. I remember at a young age, my mother always told me don't show up empty handed, maybe I'm "old school" but that seems like a good idea. Now if the woman raves about the flowers and makes a big deal about them, then I'll repeat with more and maybe better flowers. If she just throws them on the counter, then maybe next time I'll try a bottle of "two buck chuck" wine from TJ's and see if that goes over better. For me... if a $4-$5 bouquet of flowers is going to make or break me, then I've got no business dating in the first place. Happy, your mother was/is a wise lady. If a lady doesn't appreciate such a gesture then that is "on her." You brought the flowers because you WANTED too. 1
Miss Spider Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Isn’t that kind of baseline for both men and women? In the stereotypical world we are discussing. Yep it is , though I would argue there’s more emphasis on looking good for women. Men have that additional expectation by most to offer to pay and pick her up on first date. Edited February 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Shouldn't both parties put their "best" foot forward as in dressing nice and engaging one another with dignity? 1 1
alphamale Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Happy Lemming said: I remember at a young age, my mother always told me don't show up empty handed, maybe I'm "old school" but that seems like a good idea. my mum taught me the same thing HL 1
Ruby Slippers Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 14 hours ago, Shining One said: I just don't consider putting in little to no effort as good behavior. I'm doing all of the planning and paying while she's just showing up (on the first date) and getting chauffeured after that. I understand that most women have these expectations, that's not in question. What is in question is how is that lack of effort and investment considered her best behavior. Most women have these expectations because most men do what most consider to be the masculine side of the equation - plan and pay and all the other parts of the courtship ritual. I've been dating and having relationships for... almost 30 years. 99% of men have done these things. So a guy who doesn't want to do it or complains about it seems very unappealing in comparison to that 99%.
preraph Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 12 hours ago, SumGuy said: Isn’t that kind of baseline for both men and women? In the stereotypical world we are discussing. in my part of the country women put a whole lot more effort into looking good than men do.
SumGuy Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, preraph said: in my part of the country women put a whole lot more effort into looking good than men do. Some people require more effort than others. Just joking there. Where I live it likely turns on your demographic on how much effort the men make or how much effort is too much. Personally I am much more impressed by what one puts into their clothes (that's some real effort to me), than clothes or make-up, etc. I generally prefer flattering clothes (of any style or formality level) and no make-up. Also a lot of what I see in the media held up as "nice" to me is a very plastic aesthetic. 2
Author Shining One Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said: Most women have these expectations because most men do what most consider to be the masculine side of the equation - plan and pay and all the other parts of the courtship ritual. What is the feminine side of the equation? Again, we're talking about people theoretically being on their best behavior. The man is on his best behavior during early dating because he does X. The woman is on her best behavior because she does Y. Thus far, I'm getting the impression that Y is simply showing up (or being picked up) and being well-groomed. Edited February 26, 2020 by Shining One 1
littleblackheart Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) You get repaid in kind as they say, when all goes well - appreciation, implicit trust that you won't be taking advantage of her, gratitude for making her feel 'wanted', etc. That's your return on investment. If you're more of a 'like for like' person who needs to see tangible, monetary reciprocation, best to date like-minded people. Fwiw, all the women I know who date online will offer some sort of tangible reciprocation after date 1. Edited February 26, 2020 by littleblackheart
Ruby Slippers Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 The feminine side of traditional courtship is only accepting a date with a man you see real potential with (not just for entertainment), evaluating him fairly as a potential long-term mate whose affections you can return, not considering others while considering him - in short, having a view toward long-term commitment and only continuing to see him if you see the two of you on that track. For casual daters, it's different - but most men are just as willing to invest for the benefits of casual dating as those men looking for something lasting.
Miss Spider Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) It’s silly to pretend like men and women are 100% equal in the dating/romantic arena and many men wouldn’t even want that anyway(Like her showing up with legs as hairy as yours)Men and women have different general expectations from each other and this includes traditional courtship where in the beginning, men expected to pursue and women be receptive. “Oh but it’s not fair women expect me to pay. I need things to be completely even. I need symmetry in my universe” No one said I t was. I don’t think it’s fair that if I want a bio kid I have to carry it around for 9 months as it feeds on and ruins my body then painfully plop it out, whereas a man doesn’t. No one said life is fair though. Edited February 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough
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