Shining One Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 It's is frequently said on these forums that people are on their best behavior during the early dating phase. I'm curious as to how true that statement is. The vast majority of my dating experience is early dating. If I had to describe the behavior of the majority of my early dates, I would use words like: Lazy, entitled, self-centered, cheap, etc. In some cases (among the few that lasted a bit longer), the behavior got better over time. What is your experience? Do you experience better behavior during early dating?
d0nnivain Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Early on the men I dated probably shielded me from their bad moods more. Like if he had a cr@ppy day, he'd plaster a smile on his face & carry on. As we got closer, I became more of an outlet, the person to whom he could safely vent. If I wasn't being treated respectfully with scheduled dates, communication especially about the time & location of dates & having doors held open for me, I probably lost interest quickly anyway. As for me, I was always on my best behavior early on. To some extent, that meant I didn't voice my frustrations to a date if I was having a bad day or my family made me crazy. Now my husband is the one who has to absorb all of that but as you get to know somebody you can also tell when they are venting / needing a sounding board vs. attacking you. There is a difference & everybody needs an outlet. I also toned down the intensity of some of my opinions. I didn't change my opinions or hide them but I either bit my tongue more, lowered the volume or at least chose my words more carefully & diplomatically rather then just spewing as I feel comfortable doing with somebody I know well. Being more considerate of a date's time is another one of those "best behavior issues." DH & I have a long standing tradition of going out tonight -- Fat Tuesday -- for a low key Mardi Gras celebration in our neighborhood. It's after 5 p.m. here. The other day I twisted my ankle. I'm tired & cranky right now. I'm thinking about cancelling my date with hubby in favor of left overs & sitting on the couch. I would never do that to an early date. I'd find a way to suck it up. After almost 12 years of marriage I know my husband won't get his feelings hurt if I cancel our plans last minute. If he really wants Cajun food, he can pick up take out. Do my examples help you understand? 2 1
Ruby Slippers Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I don't think it's true for everybody. I've read a few different personality profiles for my boyfriend, and most of them say he's the kind of guy who prefers to put the good, the bad, and the ugly all out on the table from the get-go, so as not to waste his or your time if it's not going to be acceptable. He even came right out and said he could sugarcoat things, but since he wants something real and lasting, there's no point in doing that. Very practical and sensible, if you think about it. As for you encountering a lot of women you consider entitled and cheap, I've read similar comments from you on this forum many times. Are you seeking out less feminine, traditional women, those more oriented toward their masculine career and earning power side? If not, you might want to consider it. My man is a manly man and I'm a pretty girly girl, so traditional male-female dynamics work easily and naturally for us.
rjc149 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 In my experience dating anxiously attached women, the warmth, affection and closeness at the beginning turns into testing at about the 2 month mark to see how invested you are and how much you still care for them. Fake breakups, emotional manipulation, acting rude and bitchy— all intended to keep herself reassured of your affections. 1
smackie9 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I'm pretty good at picking up on people's vibe, and that gut feeling really hits home. Also I found that they would "slip", and I can see they would correct themselves, hoping I didn't catch it. One time my GF tried to match me up with her BF's cousin. The minute I met him, I got this bad feeling about him. About 4 years later, I found out he was a controlling abusive p%&*# to the girl he married. And years after that, I ran into him at my friend's wedding. He was so rude to my husband, we up and left before an altercation was going to happen. I didn't tell my friend because I didn't want to ruin her wedding day with all that drama. Edited February 25, 2020 by smackie9 1
alphamale Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 48 minutes ago, Shining One said: What is your experience? Do you experience better behavior during early dating? people behave much better during the first three months of dating. after that many women start to think they own you and start behaving differently. I have heard women say the same about men. most people can't put on the "show" for more than 3-4 months, in general I know that I tend to treat someone better for the initial stage of dating someone new
Miss Spider Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) In my experience, the guys start out really charming and make their lives seem way more interesting than they really are. You discover they aren’t as interesting as you once thought after they drop the charade. They show their character flaws like neediness, depression etc after awhile too Edited February 25, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1 1 1
preraph Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I will concede that there are some people who simply have no "best behavior." 2 1
preraph Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, alphamale said: people behave much better during the first three months of dating. after that many women start to think they own you and start behaving differently. I have heard women say the same about men. most people can't put on the "show" for more than 3-4 months, in general I know that I tend to treat someone better for the initial stage of dating someone new I totally agree, especially the 3-4 months part. I think it was Steve Harvey who once said everyone has their stress threshold when they can no longer keep up the strain of putting on a good front. He was an advocate of not sleeping together for at least 90 days because of this (I don't agree that's right for everyone, but I see the logic). 1 1
Author Shining One Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 52 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said: As for you encountering a lot of women you consider entitled and cheap, I've read similar comments from you on this forum many times. Are you seeking out less feminine, traditional women, those more oriented toward their masculine career and earning power side? If not, you might want to consider it. I avoid women who label themselves as traditional. However, I've personally found no correlation between femininity and sense of entitlement. I've dated girly girls who handled their fair share of effort and I've dated career-oriented, high-earning women with a huge sense of entitlement. In any case, that's not the point of this thread. I'm simply having difficulty reconciling those specific traits with best behavior. For example: I meet a woman for a first date I arranged and paid for. Things seem to go well and there are more dates. Starting with the second date, I'm driving her. I'm arranging and paying for all of these dates. Is this really her at her best behavior? This is the disconnect for me.
preraph Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Of course, it all leads to the inevitable "He/she has changed" sometime down the road, when they think the other person has changed because they're not all perfect anymore or they've known them long enough to experience actual ups and downs of life with them and seen some more of them, the part of them that is maybe not great under pressure or the lazy part that quits wanting to go do stuff. They hang on if possible because they think the first person they got to know was the real version, and it breaks their hearts. When all that really happened is they dated long enough to get to actually KNOW them. The latest version is the most accurate version, never the one you first fell for.
Foxhall Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 is being on their best behaviour always a good thing? Personally on a first date I would be on my "best behaviour" which would lend itself to an awkward date, a few dates in if I get that far, I would be more relaxed and my bolder side would come out, better interactions.
Miss Spider Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Well what you’re saying (man driving, paying for dates) is what a lot of women believe is normal courtship behavior. They don’t see the man paying for everything as bad, so they aren’t going to change the behavior/put up a front, especially if you are reinforcing the behavior with more dates. Not to turn this into another ‘who pays’ thread, but I have to say, it seems in a lot of cases where a man does all the heavy lifting to an extreme extent, it’s simply due to an imbalance of interest. The guy feels like doing these things bolsters his value to the woman and he chooses to ignores what he sees as inconsiderate behavior on her part. Also probably some sunk cost fallacy at play too. If I was a guy I would drop woman who after 3 or so dates didn’t reciprocate enough. I would lose interest in her as a romantic partner. Usually, you should see reciprocation by the 2nd. I would wonder if her lack of consideration would extend to other areas, because probably. Oh and another example related to the topic of OP would be one how one my exes had a bunch of awesome stuff in his apartment(old medical bottles) just AMAZING things. It looked like a museum. I found out after a month that all belonged to his ex that he dumped.When she came to get her stuff, his apartment was empty except some pieces of furniture and a couple posters and boxes in the back. It was barren. Edited February 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough
d0nnivain Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, rjc149 said: In my experience dating anxiously attached women, the warmth, affection and closeness at the beginning turns into testing at about the 2 month mark to see how invested you are and how much you still care for them. Fake breakups, emotional manipulation, acting rude and bitchy— all intended to keep herself reassured of your affections. Date different women. OMG. Why would anybody put up with that? Plus in the very beginning how much warmth, affection or especially closeness can there be? You are just getting to know each other. I'm rather stingy with all of those things until some measure of trust has been established. 34 minutes ago, Shining One said: Starting with the second date, I'm driving her. I'm arranging and paying for all of these dates. Is this really her at her best behavior? This is the disconnect for me. The fact that you are disconnecting here makes no sense to me. Chivalry is expected. She's not going to pick you up. Maybe she will meet you at the location. She's also not going to arrange a 1st or 2nd date. Women have been so programed not to be pushy, not to chase men. At best she may make some overtures around the 3rd -4th date. I think it would be polite for her to offer to pay the tip or treat for after dinner drinks. Perhaps she could offer to get it next time but honestly if you are looking for a woman to take the laboring oar early on that is unlikely to happen. Edited February 26, 2020 by d0nnivain 2
preraph Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Oh, Jeez, Cookies, turns out, who you fell for wasn't him but his ex! That's how I would have reacted. I would be so disappointed. 1
Happy Lemming Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, alphamale said: people behave much better during the first three months of dating. most people can't put on the "show" for more than 3-4 months, in general This is me 100%... I can put up a good facade for 3 months, but after that the cracks start to appear and my true self comes out. I think that is why most of the dating from my youth was in 3 month or less mini relationships. 1
preraph Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 I will just say for the record that in my main dating days, I did drive plenty and dated guys who weren't even taking me on real dates, too, or spending any money. In fact, it was me buying a lot of champagne because I didn't want to drink beer. I really should have set the bar higher, I realize, expected more. Different times and I ran with an unconventional crowd, though. 1
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 I agree with Donnivan. I suspect that MOST men would not THINK about letting a lady pay for dinner or anything associated with a date. Chivalry is not DEAD nor should it be. I do NOT agree with the poster above Donnivan in regard to a perceived imbalance of interest. I do not think that who pays determines who is most interested.
Gr8fuln2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Shining One said: It's is frequently said on these forums that people are on their best behavior during the early dating phase. I'm curious as to how true that statement is. The vast majority of my dating experience is early dating. If I had to describe the behavior of the majority of my early dates, I would use words like: Lazy, entitled, self-centered, cheap, etc. In some cases (among the few that lasted a bit longer), the behavior got better over time. What is your experience? Do you experience better behavior during early dating? Are you female dating men? I have dated my share of ladies over the years and I have only ONCE met someone I shivered at the thought of being with. She was callous and self-centered. Ugh. Hot though...super hot. I saw her twice and finally couldn't bear the thought of being with someone like her. Other than that, my initial meetings have been very friendly, playful, and cordial. First impressions and early cadence of character is very important.
Wanderlust2018 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Interesting question... I’ve always just been myself, and I feel like most women I’ve dated have as well. Maybe I’m an outlier, but I’ve been pretty fortunate in that regard, even if it hasn’t led to a love connection. That said, I do have certain core values, such as being a gentleman, polite, treating others how I want to be treated, etc. I do however also have strong boundaries and a very low tolerance for riffraff. I think that generally all comes across as being comfortable in my skin, confident and self assured, which is not a bad thing. Probably my bugaboo is when/if they claim to have drive, ambition, and goals, yet it becomes abundantly clear that they don’t. One misrepresenting themselves is a major pet peeve and turnoff for me and is usually easy to spot early on. Lastly, I do kind of like women with a bit of an outlaw steak. I’m accomplished and don’t outwardly seem so, but I have a bit of that wild outlaw streak myself...haha.
Author Shining One Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: The fact that you are disconnecting here makes no sense to me. Chivalry is expected. She's not going to pick you up. Maybe she will meet you at the location. She's also not going to arrange a 1st or 2nd date. Women have been so programed not to be pushy, not to chase men. At best she may make some overtures around the 3rd -4th date. I think it would be polite for her to offer to pay the tip or treat for after dinner drinks. Perhaps she could offer to get it next time but honestly if you are looking for a woman to take the laboring oar early on that is unlikely to happen. When I say disconnect, I mean I'm not making the connection with her actions (or lack thereof) and good behavior.
SumGuy Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Not really in my experience of dating in my 50s. If it goes any length of time the behavior is no worse, and often better as time goes on. Same for mine. Or maybe not so much better as more intimate and deep. I will admit though the women connect with are not the "mainstream" as far as I see it on-line. Edited February 26, 2020 by SumGuy
simpycurious Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Not really in my experience of dating in my 50s. If it goes any length of time the behavior is no worse, and often better as time goes on. Same for mine. Or maybe not so much better as more intimate and deep. I will admit though the women connect with are not the "mainstream" as far as I see it on-line. How so??? What is considered "mainstream" online or off?
Miss Spider Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, simpycurious said: I agree with Donnivan. I suspect that MOST men would not THINK about letting a lady pay for dinner or anything associated with a date. Chivalry is not DEAD nor should it be. I do NOT agree with the poster above Donnivan in regard to a perceived imbalance of interest. I do not think that who pays determines who is most interested. I didn’t say in all, I said in a lot of cases it seems that way... and you can see a clear distinction in the cases where guys are complaining about being taken advantage of by dates... Edited February 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough
d0nnivain Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Shining One said: When I say disconnect, I mean I'm not making the connection with her actions (or lack thereof) and good behavior. I'm still not following. I think I'm polite but I would always expect a man to offer to pick me up for a date. Meeting me there is fine if it was off OLD & I didn't know him. Also if we were coming from opposite directions, meeting is more practical but I want the offer. Similarly even if I offer to pay for the date, I secretly want the guy to decline. I almost always "got it next time" or bought after dinner something -- drinks, desert, movie tickets etc. However if I really didn't like the guy & never wanted to see him again I always paid the check when he went to the bathroom just so I could get the heck out of there. Even now, I'll say something to my husband like -- "hey I just put $$ in the checking account; take me out to dinner." Even though it's our money I like the fact that he goes through the trouble of paying the check. It's silly but it's how I feel. My mother never paid for a thing in my father's presence & I rarely did except on his birthday or their anniversary. Women want to be chased because we have been conditioned to believe that men value things they have to work for & a man will lose respect for us if we make it too easy for him. It's a real push pull on both sides. You have to show enough interest to keep the guy coming back but not so much that he thinks you are "easy" or that no effort is required on his part. We want to make sure that Netflix & chill doesn't become the standard date going forward. It's not a matter of best behavior but setting & fulfilling expectations. Edited February 26, 2020 by d0nnivain 1
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