He asked me for a coffee date but then didn't pay for the coffee?

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Allupinnit said:

Personal experience. 

My personal experience is that the same can be said of women, or people in general, if they get comfortable. It's not in my experience just 'men' who tend to get comfortable and complacent. On the other hand, some might argue that not having to walk on eggshells for the rest of their lives is actually a plus overall. For me, I've so become accustomed to working hard all the time I can't imagine what it would be like, or even want to be in a situation, where I don't keep working. Not everyone has to be like that though, it takes all types I reckon. 

My wife is excellent and one of the attributes that drew me to her was her desire to assist people, including me, when they needed a little hand. Without a lot of complaining. I do everything in my power to make her life as easy as possible and she does the same for me; I like that, but again, not everyone is the same. 

[Allupinnit]

Well sure ok but I haven't dated women so I can only go by what the OP posted and my own real life experiences with modern dating.  Not sure why all of this has to turn into a gender war every single thread.  

Men and women aren't expected to act exactly the same on dates - what fun would that be??

 

[Els]

33 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

He probably didn't know he'd be running late when he planned his day or he would have set the date for the time when he actually showed up, I bet. Here's what could have happened. She could have showed up on time, and when he texted she could have offered to get his stuff and her stuff and could have helped expedite and facilitate him getting his day back on track. THAT would be a woman I'd remember and be extremely impressed with.

Not required for her to do that of course, but I don't think this guy has to be a villain here either. 

In an established relationship where both parties have already proven that they are equally invested, of course that could be done, but on a first date (between two people who have literally never met before) I think it would be a terrible idea for her to do that. You might be "extremely impressed" with her, but so would plenty of men who don't want to put effort into their relationship and are looking for a doormat who'll do everything for them - she'd just be attracting the wrong men in general IMO (I don't mean you, but all of the others, who will likely outnumber you).

There's a pretty solid line between normal etiquette between two people meeting up for the first time, and going overboard. Waiting for your date to order together is normal etiquette. Offering to go and buy coffee for your late date when he tells you he'll be late, is overboard. Bringing roses and chocolates to your first date is also going overboard.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Elswyth

[kendahke]

22 hours ago, miss2017 said:

When I arrived he was sitting upstairs and was already having a coffee and cake. We said hello, etc, I sat down next to him and he didn’t ask if I wanted coffee or anything...

We talked for like 5 minutes and then I told him I was going downstairs to get a coffee for me. He said oh yes I already got one for me... 

So I went downstairs, got my coffee and came back upstairs. We talked for a while and then I said I have to go.

Had I gotten there and saw he was chowing down and had a spread in front of him, I'd have told him I'm going to down to get some coffee, gotten mine to go and walked out and kept walking while putting him on block. Some people (male and female) are philistines. That's life. You don't have to invest your time with them.

Since he knew you were arriving late, he could have texted and asked you what you wanted and had it waiting for you, but then again, going by his manners, he's probably been ghosted on. He'll learn the hard way.

Edited February 25, 2020 by kendahke

[sothereiwas]

8 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

There's a pretty solid line between normal etiquette between two people meeting up for the first time, and going overboard

I always tended toward going overboard, but I got a good one so I guess as they say "past performance is not ..."; but it worked out for us. It's not IME a bad thing to try and differentiate yourself on a first date, particularly if you do it by being yourself. Plenty of time to sort a turd out later, I've certainly had to do it before. 

The point I was actually going for though, wasn't this. Simply that they both didn't seem to really be thinking about the other person first. Not good on either side IMO. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by sothereiwas

[miss2017]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

In general I don't want anyone paying for my coffee. With my husband early on we decided to have a third wallet where we'd put each the same amount of money every week or so and pay everything from that wallet (may it be food, coffee, tickets etc). I don't consider myself anything special that a man has to pay for my company and at the same time I value myself a lot not to allow anyone to think that he "owns" me or that I owe him anything just because he paid for my coffee.

In the OP's case it's a little tricky situation. I imagine this guy went into the coffee shop and the cashier asked him what he wanted so he couldn't have said "nothing yet, I'm waiting for someone". He might have thought, ok, I'll take what I want and when she comes she will get what she wants. Maybe he was thinking she would enter from second to second. When she didnt come until the coffee and cake were ready, he had no other option than to go and find a table to sit and so he did. When she arrived he could have asked her if she wanted anything to drink and he could have offered to go get it (and pay) for her. The question is, did he want to do that? Or did he want to see how they would get along to allow himself to treat her as a possible girlfriend? We as women think only about our point of view, but a man could very well think like "I'll treat her as a stranger for now until I feel there is potential there and then I'll start to treat her as something more".

I'm wondering the following: If he had asked her "hey you want something to drink?" and she would have said "yes I'd like a coffee", he would stand up to go get the coffee, would the OP have offered to give him some money then? I mean, would she be content with the gesture he did to stand up and go get her coffee or did she want him also to actually PAY for the coffee?

I think relationships are too complicated as they are and I want always to eliminate the money subject from the equation.

He ASKED ME for a coffee, so yes I wouldn't want to give him money to go get my coffee because, again, HE asked me. Simple.

"I'll treat her as a stranger for now until I feel there is potential there and then I'll start to treat her as something more". WOW, what a poor way of thinking and living. This feels like the story of treating the CEO better than the janitor. Sad, very sad.

 

[miss2017]

58 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

Maybe the cashier would think that he was avoiding ordering something and he wanted to just sit in the coffee shop having ordered nothing. There are some people who do that (in my country) so waiters and cashiers are suspicious about that. They say "I'm waiting for company", they drink some water sitting at a table, sit there for like 20 mins, they use the wifi and/or the bathroom and they just leave acting like their date never showed up.

The coffee shop has a waiting area upstairs. He could have waited there for me without asking for drinks and food before I arrived.

Edited February 25, 2020 by miss2017

[sothereiwas]

4 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

He ASKED ME for a coffee, so yes I wouldn't want to give him money to go get my coffee because, again, HE asked me. Simple.

So it is about the money then?

[elaine567]

20 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

My wife is excellent and one of the attributes that drew me to her was her desire to assist people, including me, when they needed a little hand. Without a lot of complaining. I do everything in my power to make her life as easy as possible and she does the same for me; I like that, but again, not everyone is the same. 

Which is exactly what the OP wants too, but was presented with a guy who was not there to make her life as easy as possible, but a guy that was making his life as easy as possible...
 

[miss2017]

4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

So it is about the money then?

No, it's about who invited who.

[miss2017]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Which is exactly what the OP wants too, but was presented with a guy who was not there to make her life as easy as possible, but a guy that was making his life as easy as possible...
 

Exactly.

Listen, I am a single mom. I have my own business. I do EVERYTHING on my own everyday. I have no help from no one. To cook, to do the dishes, to do the laundry, to pick up my kid to school, and the list goes on.

It's no one's fault and certainly he's not his business of a guy I never met before, but after being so used to do everything myself, yes I do appreciate a LOT a man who is a gentleman and gets up and grabs a coffee for me that he invited me for. 

It doesn't mean he is "the one", but at least he shows this guy doesn't only thinks about himself and so I want to know him better. And it makes me feel cared for, even with something so simple as a coffee. To me the simple small things are important.

Edited February 25, 2020 by miss2017

[sothereiwas]

7 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

No, it's about who invited who.

How does him paying or not change who invited who?

[miss2017]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

How does him paying or not change who invited who?

He invited, he pays. Simple.

[sothereiwas]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Which is exactly what the OP wants too, but was presented with a guy who was not there to make her life as easy as possible, but a guy that was making his life as easy as possible...

To get that, I had to be willing to give. A partnership, to me, has to be composed of two people who each put the other first. The OP experience seems to be exactly the opposite. Take that as you like, but for me he and she seem well matched, even if they don't belong together. 

[some_username1]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

Riiight.  I guess some very desperate women would put up with this behavior.  Maybe that's what he wants, someone he can just grind his bootheel into and she won't squawk.  Next.

Hahaha how do you draw that conclusion just from a guy who didn't wait outside for her? You'll be telling us you just know that he's a wife beater next :D

We literally know nothing about his character other than he went inside first and didn't jump up and buy OP a drink when he should have. If this was a court of law would you feel that he has proved beyond reasonable doubt that he is actually a rude person or do you think there is enough room to say maybe he just wasn't attuned to what was expected of him? To me he could very well have been absent minded about it, especially as he told OP in advance he was probably going to be late. If he really was an arse he wouldn't have even done that.

All in all there seems a lot of judgement of this guy based on two aspects that someone else could see as fairly innocuous/trivial. What I conclude is that some people have standards and expectations that are so high they could end up being self-sabotaging.

[Gr8fuln2020]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

How does him paying or not change who invited who?

I had to rethink this, but imagine I invite you to coffee. I show up early and get my own, but then make no effort to offer to buy coffee for you and simply let you go to get your own. I had to make an introspective examination on this issue and why the OP is upset...would you not hesitate for at least one moment and wonder why he couldn't have at least offered? Waited?

I am wondering if his showing up earlier was to do exactly what he did...pre-empt any obligation to buy for her.

 

 

[simpycurious]

It does not cost a thing to show a "little common courtesy" toward another (man or woman).  I do not think the OP was concerned about the cost associated with the coffee

but rather the gesture of both waiting on her and getting the coffee for her (LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE DONE).  

[some_username1]

9 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

He invited, he pays. Simple.

But did you make that clear to him before the date? If not then he's being set up to fail by being tested from the start on a rule he can't possibly read your mind about.

ETA: If it's a deal breaker to this extent you should try and pre-screen dates for their attitude to paying because by not making that clear you've wasted your own time and his when you could have gone on a date with someone who would pay if they invite.

Edited February 25, 2020 by some_username1

[Gaeta]

Once I made a man wait like 45 minutes. I was on my way out and I came face to face with the roof company, I had completely forgot they were coming for a quote. I called the man at the coffee shop and explained and offered we rescheduled. He insisted on waiting. When I got there he was having a coffee, which was totally normal I was a huge 45 minutes late. I meet him and apologize profusely and I tell him I'll get myself a coffee. He refused...he insisted I sat down and that he'd get my coffee, and he went. Among the men I dated he turned out to be the most adorable gentleman. Him and I didn't work for health reasons but almost 7 years later I remember him as one of the rare gentlemen I met. 

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, some_username1 said:

But did you make that clear to him before the date? If not then he's being set up to fail by being tested from the start on a rule he can't possibly read your mind about.

Even my 15 year old knows that when you invite someone you pay !

[miss2017]

12 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

To get that, I had to be willing to give. A partnership, to me, has to be composed of two people who each put the other first. The OP experience seems to be exactly the opposite. Take that as you like, but for me he and she seem well matched, even if they don't belong together. 

When I went downstairs to get my coffee I asked him if he wanted me to bring him anything. So no we're not well matched, that's why it annoyed me and it's not what I want.

Edited February 25, 2020 by miss2017

[miss2017]

4 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

But did you make that clear to him before the date? If not then he's being set up to fail by being tested from the start on a rule he can't possibly read your mind about.

I am the one who has to make that clear to him if he was the one who invited me? Why, he's he 6 and haven't learned manners yet? That's ridiculous.

Edited February 25, 2020 by miss2017

[miss2017]

8 minutes ago, simpycurious said:

It does not cost a thing to show a "little common courtesy" toward another (man or woman).  I do not think the OP was concerned about the cost associated with the coffee

but rather the gesture of both waiting on her and getting the coffee for her (LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE DONE).  

Exactly. Even if the coffee was free, the courtesy of getting up and get it would be the same.

[some_username1]

6 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Once I made a man wait like 45 minutes. I was on my way out and I came face to face with the roof company, I had completely forgot they were coming for a quote. I called the man at the coffee shop and explained and offered we rescheduled. He insisted on waiting. When I got there he was having a coffee, which was totally normal I was a huge 45 minutes late. I meet him and apologize profusely and I tell him I'll get myself a coffee. He refused...he insisted I sat down and that he'd get my coffee, and he went. Among the men I dated he turned out to be the most adorable gentleman. Him and I didn't work for health reasons but almost 7 years later I remember him as one of the rare gentlemen I met. 

Out of interest and with respect to the condemnation of 'rude' behaviour in this thread, would you have been so gracious if he called you to say he totally forgot about a quote he had asked for and could you re-schedule? 

[littleblackheart]

9 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

I do appreciate a LOT a man who is a gentleman and gets up and grabs a coffee for me that he invited me for.

I hear you, but maybe your expectations of this complete stranger were too high on this occasion?

 

I too go by the 'whoever invites pays' rule because I have done the inviting myself, and paid. It's not a gender thing, it's a courtesy thing. Same way as I would expect to pay my own way - I'm a not feminist, more of an egalitarian.

 

Do you sometimes do the inviting yourself? If you never do (and even if you do, truthfully), I'd think it would help to be a lot more flexible and understand that he too will have his own set of standards, imo.

Good luck for the next date