He asked me for a coffee date but then didn't pay for the coffee?

[Gaeta]

Miss2017, you did the right thing. We speak about this in the context of a dating but waiting for your partner before ordering is simple politeness and we do it with our friends, at professional meetings and with family. It's something that was taught to us as children! Well it was taught to me as soon as I could sit on a chair on my own. 

These little things teach us big things about people, example your date don't tip, or your date is rude with the waitress, you should not ignore those ever. Their the tips of an iceberg you have not seen yet.

[miss2017]

5 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

 - like a business meeting.

Yes, not romantic at all! I would rather go for a walk along the beach and THEN if we both feel it, go somewhere to have a coffee. But because we are enjoying our time together.

[simpycurious]

so dating has become somewhat like a business interview? that sounds like fun 

[miss2017]

6 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Miss2017, you did the right thing. We speak about this in the context of a dating but waiting for your partner before ordering is simple politeness and we do it with our friends, at professional meetings and with family. It's something that was taught to us as children! Well it was taught to me as soon as I could sit on a chair on my own. 

These little things teach us big things about people, example your date don't tip, or your date is rude with the waitress, you should not ignore those ever. Their the tips of an iceberg you have not seen yet.

Yes, red flags as we call it. And our intuition is catching on it pretty quickly, so it shouldn't be dismissed.

I am the girl who didn't have confidence in herself and used to go to dates with rose tinted glasses, feel bad about some things and dismiss them, and go on further dates with those people just to realise later down the line that my intuition was spot on in the first date and I just wasted my time with those guys, where I could have met another ones.

So now no, I don't dismiss how I feel, I believe it and act on it. I deleted this guy's contact already and next.

And you are right, it's not about dating, it's about politeness and manners.

[some_username1]

5 hours ago, miss2017 said:

You have absolutely no idea of how a real woman works.

You see it as being a princess, but in fact a real woman knows what she wants and doesn't settle for less. That my friend, is being a QUEEN, not a princess.

I couldn't care less about seeing the generous side of you if you were rude in a first date. I've got my own money and can pay an expensive meal on my own, I don't need your generosity. What I need though is your manners and politeness on a first date. So you would be the one losing out in the end.

Again, couldn't care less if the guy sitting next to me is a hollywood actor or the guy who empties the bins outside. I care about a real, caring man with manners, and that's it.

I wonder myself how many wonderful women you lost on a first date because of your mindset. Good luck.

You’re fixated on the fact that it was rude- it was rude in your opinion and yet you extrapolate that to others (how a real woman works). You don’t have the ability to speak for anyone else, much less the women I go on dates with. You have no idea how many other dates and relationships this guy has had acting in the way that he does. He might be very successful with women- God knows very few men actively pursue a strategy that doesn’t work!

And for the record, I’ve been taken to the cleaners by women on dates- one gladly accepted me paying for 3 meals in a row (despite her being a director at the company where she worked) and then ghosted me. Maybe I should take a leaf out of your book and extrapolate that to ALL women and conclude that’s how a REAL woman acts? How far would that get me?

Like I say, you talk in absolutes when you can only talk in terms of what is right for yourself. You do seem a lot more hurt than you are letting on by this though. The fact you have continued talking to him suggests that there is more to this than you are telling us and and your annoyance may be coming from somewhere else.

[miss2017]

1 minute ago, simpycurious said:

so dating has become somewhat like a business interview? that sounds like fun 

At least these weird coffee dates yes.

[miss2017]

1 minute ago, some_username1 said:

You’re fixated on the fact that it was rude- it was rude in your opinion and yet you extrapolate that to others (how a real woman works). You don’t have the ability to speak for anyone else, much less the women I go on dates with. You have no idea how many other dates and relationships this guy has had acting in the way that he does. He might be very successful with women- God knows very few men actively pursue a strategy that doesn’t work!

And for the record, I’ve been taken to the cleaners by women on dates- one gladly accepted me paying for 3 meals in a row (despite her being a director at the company where she worked) and then ghosted me. Maybe I should take a leaf out of your book and extrapolate that to ALL women and conclude that’s how a REAL woman acts? How far would that get me?

Like I say, you talk in absolutes when you can only talk in terms of what is right for yourself. You do seem a lot more hurt than you are letting on by this though. The fact you have continued talking to him suggests that there is more to this than you are telling us and and your annoyance may be coming from somewhere else.

I continued talking to him because my mind was busy with other things last week and I didn't give much thought or energy to this guy, if I want to see him again or not, so our texting was very superficial. Only when he said he wants to see me again I realised how I feel about him because I remembered how he acted.

"You have no idea how many other dates and relationships this guy has had acting in the way that he does. He might be very successful with women- God knows very few men actively pursue a strategy that doesn’t work!"

I don't give a rats ars* to his other dates and relationships and wish him well in going on further dates and treat women like that. Good luck to him. I'm out.

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

You’re fixated on the fact that it was rude-

She is not fixated, majority of women here, assisted my several men, do think it was rude of this man to not wait for her. 

[sothereiwas]

25 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

I am not a feminist so that was disrespectful if he thought I was. Definitely not a keeper if he makes assumptions like that before knowing me. To me it felt like he just didn't give a s***.

Never said he assumed you were a feminist; I said he was putting into practice the ideals feminists (and others) have championed regarding equality and that he clearly respected you as a peer, his equal. Is that a bad thing? How so?

[preraph]

6 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

 He might be very successful with women-

Riiight.  I guess some very desperate women would put up with this behavior.  Maybe that's what he wants, someone he can just grind his bootheel into and she won't squawk.  Next.

[smackie9]

omg it was just coffee. I do agree he should have waited and you both ordered together so ya it was rude for sure, that involves manners for which he obviously doesn't have. BUT I am sticking to my guns, it's just coffee, it's a modern age, he doesn't have to pay. It's nice if they offer but not necessary. Now if it was a dinner date yes I agree, whomever asks should pay. I'm just one of those gals that likes equality, and had np asking men out and paying. It had never devalued me in the least, nor was I ever taken advantage of.

Now it's about expectations, is all and I couldn't stress it more...you date those who treat you the way you expect to be treated whether you expect the man to pay or not. He didn't treat you the way you had expected, so NEXT! nothing else to see here. That's why we "meet up" right? before we invest.

Edited February 25, 2020 by smackie9

[sothereiwas]

11 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

He might be very successful with women- God knows very few men actively pursue a strategy that doesn’t work!

And for the record, I’ve been taken to the cleaners by women on dates

This first date strategy might simply be a filter to avoid a lot of that behavior, who knows. 

[preraph]

Yes, I agree.  He is trying to filter out any women with any expectation of civility on the part of the man.  And that's fine.  This way, she doesn't waste her time.  

[smackie9]

Not one ever said dating doesn't have it's low points. I went dutch with a guy, everything seemed normal but at the end of the evening he expected sex lol. NEXT!

As I always say first impressions count.

Edited February 25, 2020 by smackie9

[Ruby Slippers]

This seems to have devolved into a discussion about paying for dates, and it's extremely rare that anybody changes their opinions on this subject.

The simple fact is that most men will pay for a first date with a woman, whether it's coffee, dinner, or more, and most women will screen based on this.

Just as in the jungle, it's a matter of basic biology and competition for prime mates. All other things being equal, females prefer males who provide more.

[sothereiwas]

Just now, preraph said:

Yes, I agree.  He is trying to filter out any women with any expectation of civility on the part of the man.  And that's fine.  This way, she doesn't waste her time.  

I don't think we can know if he was applying a filter for sure, and if he was, I' don't think we can know what he was precisely filtering for. To assume otherwise, and then attribute malice or bad motives isn't realistic, or kind, or even really useful. 

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Not one ever said dating doesn't have it's low points. I went dutch with a guy, everything seemed normal but at the end of the evening he expected sex lol. NEXT!

So going dutch should preclude a guy from expecting sex? I'm not sure that's a signal we want to be sending but up to you I guess. 

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, smackie9 said:

I went dutch with a guy

It's not about who pays, it's about the courtesy. Not only he didn't wait for her to order his coffee but he was also stuffing his face in a cake. I know how it feels, it's like the guy doesn't even care if you show up or not. 

[SunnySide0418]

19 hours ago, miss2017 said:

It’s not about the cost of the coffee, it’s about the behaviour and manners. To me it’s the same either is a $2 coffee or a $50 dinner or even more. It shows how he is.

Maybe is part of his filtering process but it was also a filter to me.

It felt really really bad to me and I don’t wanna see him again. Just deciding if I tell him why or not.

I would tell him especially since you don't plan to see him again. The guy knows nothing about being a gentleman.

[Allupinnit]

I for one am SOOOO sick and tired of the dateless men saying "Well because FEMINISM" whenever a guy acts like an a$$ on dates like this.  I suppose it's easier to dump the bad experience back on the woman for being an "entitled princess" than to sack up and act like a gentleman because you don't think women deserve it.  It simply shows care and kindness.

Whenever I ignored my gut about something simple like that I was always right and left feeling disappointed and it had nothing to do with MONEY.

I was on a date once with a guy who helped himself first to the appetizer when it arrived without offering me any, no "Please go ahead" or anything like that.  Yep - was right about him.

Another guy walked ahead of me as I dragged a huge suitcase behind me and had to lift it up to walk down the stairs without even a glance back LOL.  Yep was right about him, too.

I could go on but you get the gist.

My H on the other hand was completely different from all of the other jokers I had come across, and I didn't have to make any excuses for any weird behavior, he was just sweet and kind and loved making me feel comfortable on dates.  Couldn't wait to lock him down.

[preraph]

4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

I don't think we can know if he was applying a filter for sure, and if he was, I' don't think we can know what he was precisely filtering for. To assume otherwise, and then attribute malice or bad motives isn't realistic, or kind, or even really useful. 

You're who brought it up.

[Ruby Slippers]

I don't think it's about starting on his coffee and food before she arrived. If you arrived to meet a friend or colleague and she did the same, it would be no big deal. Sure, it's better manners to wait for your friend to meet you, but not a huge problem if you don't.

It's the absence of gentlemanly / chivalrous behavior from a man that's off-putting in this case.

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

It's not about who pays, it's about the courtesy. Not only he didn't wait for her to order his coffee but he was also stuffing his face in a cake. I know how it feels, it's like the guy doesn't even care if you show up or not.

To be fair, a lot of time people complain about their date flaking so if he had a day ahead I can see where he might lean into it if the other party was late. Sort of nice to even stick around in a way. 

[SumGuy]

5 minutes ago, preraph said:

Riiight.  I guess some very desperate women would put up with this behavior.  Maybe that's what he wants, someone he can just grind his bootheel into and she won't squawk.  Next.

Wow!   Exactly why I mentioned about how people take these things and extrapolate them to some character flaw.  
His behavior would have been perfectly acceptable in a platonic situation.  The only difference here is expectation.   Sure it is foolish if meeting someone to see if there is romantic potential and certainly it sends a “don’t see you that way” message or that can be taken as “your not worth that effort.”

The absolute difficulty of getting or paying for coffee is trivial, it seems it is the symbolism that counts.  
 

I would never believe that a person who doesn’t get someone they are first meeting a coffee is oppressive.   Nor would I assume a guy who buys coffee is a caring.  
 

It’s a matter of degree, but personally I could care less if a woman got coffee and cake before I arrived or failed to get me a coffee.  Can do that myself and it’s so trivial wouldn’t even think of it.   I only mention that as i believe the “moral” view of and “offense” at behaviors should be gender neutral.   
 

if it’s gender specific, it’s mostly a compatibility and culture thing.   
 

This all looks like it’s turning into paying for dates/expected gender roles thread. 

[sothereiwas]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

You're who brought it up.

I just said it was possible. To then say he certainly was using it as a filter and then use that to make it about him looking for someone to abuse is a pretty long reach. For me, it's more likely he didn't have a lot of time, or maybe found lack of punctuality a red flag, or disrespectful, or maybe he was looking for someone who wasn't all about who pays. Him looking for a person who would accept abuse wouldn't have crossed my mind but my experience doesn't include a lot of abuse or abusers so ... we all see things through our own lens I guess. Probably says more about us than the fella in question.