What have I done? I am so hurt.

[mark clemson]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:43 AM, Hip Pocket said:

And I didn’t see either parent as a “main parent”. 

For clarity, I meant as opposed to the step parent. Your experience was your experience and certainly valid. However, kids at whatever age will see things how they see things (good or bad). No doubt there are those who see a problem marriage and feel it's better that it ended and the parents "found happiness" independently. However, there is NO guarantee of that, particularly when an affair was involved. No doubt the opposite view is quite common, and certainly we've seen it mentioned on various threads here, including one just recently.

I don't think it serves @hissecret or other OWs to minimize the impact this can have on their chances of the affair becoming an open relationship.

[mark clemson]

On 3/17/2020 at 8:57 AM, hissecret said:

 They are unhappy, their loyalty is rooted within the family structure but not the wife. ... Compatibility, intimacy, respect, appreciation, etc...those lack in these marriages and again because the mm has that deeply rooted loyalty within the family structure, it just isn't that easy to leave. I do feel there should be some compassion there. Just my thoughts! 

 

This does happen all the time, with or without infidelity involved and there should be compassion, at least to some extent. I agree that views around here can sometimes seem one sided. Sometimes the BS is a difficult partner or otherwise driving the WS's unhappiness. However, those are reasons to either fix the marriage or leave, which the WS can't bring themselves to do. An OW/AP often becomes, for this type of person, a "salve" on the pain of maintaining an unhappy marriage. Ironically (if she wants the MM "for herself", i.e. openly) she is making is easier for him to stay put. He's happier with her than he was before and even less inclined to take the bull by the horns and deal with separating.

If you take the view of the BS, I would think they often aren't being fully communicated with about just how bad the WS feels. The WS tried to fix things, it didn't work, but they don't want to leave the marriage, so they take making themselves happy "underground". And the end result is often the trauma of a Dday that they ultimately didn't "deserve". Where is the compassion for them when they suddenly find their lives blown up by their spouse? I think compassion has to work both ways.  Some people vilify APs, but I feel it for them too, especially when they are "hooked" on a person they can't have through their own poor decisions.

 

On 3/17/2020 at 8:46 AM, hissecret said:

He absolutely adores his children. ... I don't know how they will feel depending but I would hope for positive thoughts. ... My hope is for them not to find out that way but sometimes life happens in a sequence we wish could be different. They do know me, but they do not know me as what I am. A bridge we will cross if we ever cross it at all! 

Hope is not a strategy.

 

[Allupinnit]

@hissecret - I hope you don't believe all the crap he's telling you about why he married his wife.  You only know what he is telling you so that he doesn't look like such an ass in front of you.  He can't help but cheat, right?  Poor thing just married the wrong girl out of his sense of dutiful obligation?  

That story along with sleeping in a separate bedroom and any and all sorts of other lies MM tell you are textbook.  If he's cheating he's a liar and you can bet he's lying to you, too.

[Bittersweetie]

21 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If you take the view of the BS, I would think they often aren't being fully communicated with about just how bad the WS feels. The WS tried to fix things, it didn't work, but they don't want to leave the marriage, so they take making themselves happy "underground". And the end result is often the trauma of a Dday that they ultimately didn't "deserve".

I would agree with this. In my experience as a WS, many things my H did I saw through the lens of justifying my actions. When he worked too much or was always angry, I turned these into reasons for my choices. Even things that happened in the past I started to see with the same colored glasses...well he didn't do X ten years ago, so what I'm doing is okay.

And when I tried to speak to him about these issues, I did it half-assed. I'd try to talk to him when he was in the middle of something else. Or not make it clear how upset I was. I wouldn't follow up, and just stew and build resentment instead. I didn't communicate clearly to him, and I didn't attempt to see things from his point of view.

And all the traits described above...were issues with ME, not my husband and not my marriage. I was the one who avoided communication, who rewrote stuff in my head to justify my choices. And that would not have changed with a new partner if I didn't didn't recognize my issues and work on them.

So based on my experiences, while I understand that sometimes the BS and marriage may not be an ideal circumstance, it is the actions and choices of the WS that need to be examined. A BS could be incredibly evil yet a WS can still make choices with authenticity and integrity, a cheating WS just chooses not to do that. Like I did. (And my H was far from evil as can be.) 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[Hip Pocket]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:18 PM, mark clemson said:

For clarity, I meant as opposed to the step parent. Your experience was your experience and certainly valid. However, kids at whatever age will see things how they see things (good or bad). No doubt there are those who see a problem marriage and feel it's better that it ended and the parents "found happiness" independently. However, there is NO guarantee of that, particularly when an affair was involved. No doubt the opposite view is quite common, and certainly we've seen it mentioned on various threads here, including one just recently.

I don't think it serves @hissecret or other OWs to minimize the impact this can have on their chances of the affair becoming an open relationship.

Sharing an experience in no way minimizes the impact of anything, it just shows another perspective. 

[hissecret]

On 3/18/2020 at 1:35 PM, Allupinnit said:

@hissecret - I hope you don't believe all the crap he's telling you about why he married his wife.  You only know what he is telling you so that he doesn't look like such an ass in front of you.  He can't help but cheat, right?  Poor thing just married the wrong girl out of his sense of dutiful obligation?  

That story along with sleeping in a separate bedroom and any and all sorts of other lies MM tell you are textbook.  If he's cheating he's a liar and you can bet he's lying to you, too.

Hi! I actually do know the truths to this story as we have always been in the same social circles for over 25 years now. I know of women he was dating and didn't last but his now wife literally waited for him. While he was playing the field and single doing it, she became pregnant young. And for him, that was a moment when he decided he needed to be a "man" unlike his father.  I knew things before he even told me, so there is actual truth to what he told me.  

It is not so crazy, that a man can feel so comfortable with you that he tells you all the truths even the ugly ones.  

[JTSW]

4 hours ago, hissecret said:

so there is actual truth to what he told me.  

It is not so crazy, that a man can feel so comfortable with you that he tells you all the truths even the ugly ones.  

Sorry but you are totally deluded.

He is a cheater, so therefore will always be.

It's what he likes to do.

I can guarantee that he will end up doing the same to you.

[hissecret]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

 

gosh, I’m sure I missed a few... but you seems to have a lot of blinders on for this MM.

stop feeling sorry for him... he is right where he CHOOSES to be. If it were that bad he would divorce! Know that as fact!

 

Hi @S2B Of course he chooses to be, for many reasons. 

You are talking to someone that was in an almost 2 decade partnership and was unhappy for half of them. I finally got the nerve to leave when we actually started arguing in front of our child and our child started to ask questions. And not only did I leave once, it took a couple of times of going back and forth to finally making a solid and final decision. I packed up all of our belongings and left. 3 months later bc I was missing the family unit, I went back. Left again, 2 months later because I felt I deserved happiness. 1 month after leaving, went back. The final move happened 4 months later and I said this is it and the eve before I left I  STILL had reservations. If the arguments in front of our child never happened, most likely I probably would still be there....unhappy and miserable but a unit ALL FOR THE SAKE OF FAMILY. At the end of the day it was bearable bc we knew each other for so long, went through so many downs together and it was just COMFORTABLE. I was secure and knew he was never going anywhere. WIN WIN. I didn't need to be "happy", I had my FAMILY. regardless if I cringed every time he came home at from work but I'd suck it up..hated weekends because I wanted him to be at work. Hated going to his work Christmas parties but pictures don't show it. Hosted all the family parties with friends and family with a smile on my face but when I laid down at night, I was still unhappy.  Its real easy to say "if it was that bad you will leave" Loyalty comes in many forms..

I don't feel sorry for him because I never felt sorry for MYSELF..he will do what he needs to do in his time. Again, it took me years and a kid later..everything isn't just do or don't..

Edited March 20, 2020 by hissecret

[hissecret]

3 hours ago, JTSW said:

Sorry but you are totally deluded.

He is a cheater, so therefore will always be.

It's what he likes to do.

I can guarantee that he will end up doing the same to you.

Hi @JTSW ! Have you had discussions with his inner most thoughts? I think these statements are quite unfair. "He is a cheater so therefore will always be" So now that he created this relationship with me, he will ALWAYS be a cheater?

Unfair and judgmental statement..

[hissecret]

oops!  

Edited March 20, 2020 by hissecret

[JTSW]

15 minutes ago, hissecret said:

Hi @JTSW ! Have you had discussions with his inner most thoughts? I think these statements are quite unfair. "He is a cheater so therefore will always be" So now that he created this relationship with me, he will ALWAYS be a cheater?

Unfair and judgmental statement..

It's a fact.

He IS a cheater. He's cheating!

He will do it to you with someone else one day.

[hissecret]

18 minutes ago, JTSW said:

It's a fact.

He IS a cheater. He's cheating!

He will do it to you with someone else one day.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions! This is one that I do not agree with. Is he cheating on his wife by paper, absolutely. Does that mean if we do decide to take our relationship further years from now and decide to be together will he cheat on me? I highly doubt it. Again, things aren't black and white and that includes cheating. Relationships are not one size fits all, so the reasons why people cheat vary from relationship to relationship to person to person. There are influential things about that particular relationship, person, significant other that can cause someone to cheat. To condemn every person on earth that has cheated to being a habitual cheater is.......extreme. I'm a realist, so can I be cheated on? Yes, just like everyone else in the world. Is he capable of cheating again, absolutely. But the difference in our relationship, he would never feel like he doesn't do enough as he provides for our home, he will never feel like he isn't enough as he busts his arse at work everyday. I will always treat him like a king because well that's how I was taught from an old southern grandfather. "Your man and provider of your home should never feel like he isn't wanted or needed" I would always sing his praises and be his sexual goddess. I wouldn't just show him LOVE or shower him with words of "I love yous", because men really don't need that, I would APPRECIATE and RESPECT him everyday as a PERSON and a MAN and so our relationship would definitely be different. This man is cheating, yes, and are his excuses EXCUSABLE, no but I understand. I would never condemn him as a now and forever cheater. That is a disservice. 

 

@JimmyNorth what say you. lol I know that you wouldn't cheat on your partner now that you have her!  

[Starswillshine]

10 hours ago, hissecret said:

Hi! I actually do know the truths to this story as we have always been in the same social circles for over 25 years now. I know of women he was dating and didn't last but his now wife literally waited for him. While he was playing the field and single doing it, she became pregnant young. And for him, that was a moment when he decided he needed to be a "man" unlike his father.  I knew things before he even told me, so there is actual truth to what he told me.  

It is not so crazy, that a man can feel so comfortable with you that he tells you all the truths even the ugly ones.  

You say you met him in 2019... 

And you say his wife just waited for him and the way you write it, like she purposely got pregnant by him to keep him? 

Oh the delusions we believe.... 

[pepperbird]

25 minutes ago, hissecret said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions! This is one that I do not agree with. Is he cheating on his wife by paper, absolutely. Does that mean if we do decide to take our relationship further years from now and decide to be together will he cheat on me? I highly doubt it. Again, things aren't black and white and that includes cheating. Relationships are not one size fits all, so the reasons why people cheat vary from relationship to relationship to person to person. There are influential things about that particular relationship, person, significant other that can cause someone to cheat. To condemn every person on earth that has cheated to being a habitual cheater is.......extreme. I'm a realist, so can I be cheated on? Yes, just like everyone else in the world. Is he capable of cheating again, absolutely. But the difference in our relationship, he would never feel like he doesn't do enough as he provides for our home, he will never feel like he isn't enough as he busts his arse at work everyday. I will always treat him like a king because well that's how I was taught from an old southern grandfather. "Your man and provider of your home should never feel like he isn't wanted or needed" I would always sing his praises and be his sexual goddess. I wouldn't just show him LOVE or shower him with words of "I love yous", because men really don't need that, I would APPRECIATE and RESPECT him everyday as a PERSON and a MAN and so our relationship would definitely be different. This man is cheating, yes, and are his excuses EXCUSABLE, no but I understand. I would never condemn him as a now and forever cheater. That is a disservice. 

 

@JimmyNorth what say you. lol I know that you wouldn't cheat on your partner now that you have her!  

You can't love someone into not cheating on you. If he remains loyal to you, it will be because he chooses to, not because of anything you did or didn't do. You are not responsible for his choices.
 

[Prudence V]

48 minutes ago, hissecret said:

Does that mean if we do decide to take our relationship further years from now and decide to be together will he cheat on me? I highly doubt it.

Many years on, my H hasn’t “cheated” on me, even though he was unfaithful to his xW. And even in that bad marriage, it took him decades, and extreme conditions, to drive him to it. So yes, in theory it’s possible it may happen to me... but hey, if it happens in another 20+ years time (like his first marriage) why would I grumble? I’d still have had decades of wonderful life with him. And by then we’ll both be in our dotage anyway

[JTSW]

1 hour ago, hissecret said:

This man is cheating, yes, and are his excuses EXCUSABLE, no but I understand. I would never condemn him as a now and forever cheater. That is a disservice. 

This man is a cheater, period! 

Your love for him has you believing everything he says. 

He's got you in a state of delusion. 

You have no idea what the future holds. 

 

[hissecret]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

You say you met him in 2019... 

And you say his wife just waited for him and the way you write it, like she purposely got pregnant by him to keep him? 

Oh the delusions we believe.... 

I did officially meet him in 2019, I've known his circle of friends for years. She didn't purposely get pregnant by him at the tender age of 20, she is just the one out of the many he was seeing who became pregnant. It happens. I mean as a single man, he is entitled to sleep with as many people as he would like, she knew the risks and she waited to "win". 

Edited March 20, 2020 by hissecret

[JTSW]

2 minutes ago, hissecret said:

she is just the one out of the many he was seeing became

This says it all. 

 

[hissecret]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

You can't love someone into not cheating on you. If he remains loyal to you, it will be because he chooses to, not because of anything you did or didn't do. You are not responsible for his choices.
 

I agree. I am just stating how I would treat him. 

[hissecret]

56 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Many years on, my H hasn’t “cheated” on me, even though he was unfaithful to his xW. And even in that bad marriage, it took him decades, and extreme conditions, to drive him to it. So yes, in theory it’s possible it may happen to me... but hey, if it happens in another 20+ years time (like his first marriage) why would I grumble? I’d still have had decades of wonderful life with him. And by then we’ll both be in our dotage anyway

Lol! Exactly!

[hissecret]

8 minutes ago, JTSW said:

This man is a cheater, period! 

Your love for him has you believing everything he says. 

He's got you in a state of delusion. 

You have no idea what the future holds. 

 

I don't love him. It's a little soon for that type of emotion lol. State of delusion? hmmm again you all are very judgmental of people without knowing the inner workings of their minds, etc..

[hissecret]

2 minutes ago, JTSW said:

This says it all. 

 

This says that as a 19/20 year old he was seeing multiple women? I would hope so. 

[elaine567]

8 minutes ago, hissecret said:

...she knew the risks and she waited to "win".

As do you...

[hissecret]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

As do you...

She was 19/20, its what you do at that age lol I am waiting for no one... Lol. This man is not a priority, he is someone that I have a true affection for, and someone that I love getting to know. We have good discussions, a great friendship, and it feels like we have known each other for years. We finish each other sentences, and we laugh for hours. We enjoy each other and we make sure we let each other know. I have a whole career, a whole child, and other things on my plate. He is an addition to what I have going on. Maybe he makes it into the priority list, years from now. but right now, no one is waiting for anyone. The only thing I wait for when it comes to him is our takeout food   and that period of him being completely stupid in his conflict resolution in which we have now chatted about lol. 

 

[JTSW]

31 minutes ago, hissecret said:

she knew the risks and she waited to "win". 

Win what? He's not a prize. 

Sounds like he had so many women vying for his attention he loved it.