PhoenixRising8 Posted April 6, 2020 Posted April 6, 2020 Hey Mark, I agree we all tell the occasional fib so it wasn't meant as a blanket statement. Sometimes it's just social graces. I am saying if your married AP is lying to their spouse, and they are if they are having an affair, assuming they are being honest with you is dangerous. Not saying it doesn't happen just don't assume it to be so. 5
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 6, 2020 Author Posted April 6, 2020 1 hour ago, pepperbird said: sounds like he tried to turn around it so you would feel bad about how you were "attacking" him and not be angry at him for lying. Never. ind that he hurt you, look how you made him feel when you dared mention it. Right he often turns it around on me. I understand that he feels attacked and that’s natural to try to defend yourself. But it’s hard to also not think he’s totally deflecting from the real issue, and that is that I don’t trust him when it comes to him telling me his marriage is ending.
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 6, 2020 Author Posted April 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, LilKatKat said: Written in response to Mark Clemson's post : Husbandssecret perhaps you also could benefit from a look at @LilKatKat 's threads, particularly what happened when her MM actually did divorce in the final one. It reads rather similarly to yours, although there's a lot of detail in hers (the first one). There turned out to be no changing this particular leopard's spots... I feel like the poster child for this particular forum lol. It's all good though. If there can be learning from my experience then good. I believed his conflicted story. I understood that because after all, I went through it myself so how could I fault him for that? I gave him every benefit of the doubt. I was even stupid enough to buy the story that he found someone else because he thought I would never want him back. But he wanted me back and he begged and pleaded, pursued, gave me passwords to show transparency then found a way to circumvent. That was it. I walked away and haven't looked back. Here's the truth: had I been the love of his life as he proclaimed, he would have risked rejection and reached out before hooking up with someone else; he would not have been pursuing me while bedding her. Had my feelings mattered, he would not have reached out to her in the end to see if they could be friends. The love of his life is him. Someone in another thread said that just because they lie to their spouse doesn't mean they lie to everyone. That is a dangerous premise to hold. Liars lie. That's pretty much a guarantee. Cheaters spin tales that are very believable but in the end get caught out if you want to catch them. Married people who don't have the wherewithal to deal with their marriages honestly and honourably will not do so with you. If they were so miserable in marriage, they would leave. Millions do it every day. There are a million and one excuses that can be given for not leaving, all of them sounding plausible but the truth is that they would leave if they really wanted to. If they wanted so badly to be with you, they would. But why leave when they can have the both worlds. They may not start out as cake eaters but they sure learn in a hurry that it's easier than they thought. I don't think my MM started out a cake eater but he sure ended up that way because it was just that easy. His BS said she always pretty much knew but doesn't seem she really wanted to verify. I put up with the excuses. In the end, we helped to create a monster. We enabled him to eat cake. Never again. One and only time and though I learned a lot along the way, it wasn't worth it. Never give permission to anyone to treat you less than you are. Thanks for your response LKK. It’s helpful to hear other perspectives as you are on the other side of the tunnel. I’m scared that my story will end like yours and to me I don’t want to waste anymore time only to find out several months to a year from now that he was dragging me along. I guess there are 2 options. 1 Hold true to walking away now like I have done and see if he actually is separated at the end of the month or 2 give him until the end of the month and if nothing has happened leave for good. I’m worried knowing how things have gone and the hold he has been able to have over me that I will get sucked back in doing option 2. The safest option for me right now I think is option 1. 1
PhoenixRising8 Posted April 6, 2020 Posted April 6, 2020 He will have a reasonable sounding excuse in a month. They always do. I have little doubt your story will end like mine. I hope I am wrong. As soon as they start deferring, that's a clear signal they are trying their best to keep the best of both worlds. Mine did ultimately come back a free man but then I found out about the other other because he didn't think I would take him back. Bought it again. Thing is, if you find yourself doubting him, loving him less, hold on to that. That's what I felt but ignored it. Thought I could recapture the first 8 months. Mostly I don't think that's possible. When you start to feel like that, it accelerates and you get what you expected to get. A whole lot more doubt and deception. 2
heartwhole2 Posted April 6, 2020 Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said: Right he often turns it around on me. I understand that he feels attacked and that’s natural to try to defend yourself. But it’s hard to also not think he’s totally deflecting from the real issue, and that is that I don’t trust him when it comes to him telling me his marriage is ending. Let's pretend this wasn't an affair. This is not how a healthy person behaves in a relationship. Lashing out, deflecting, gaslighting, manipulating, blame shifting . . . these are never ok. It's natural to feel attacked when suddenly someone brings up something that you didn't realize you were doing. But a grownup takes a deep breath and realizes, oh, right, sometimes I make mistakes. Everyone does. My sense of self will survive this. My compassion for this person who brought the concern to me is greater than my defensive reflex. Don't make excuses for him just because this is an affair. I would think, if anything, that your bar would be higher in an affair than any other time. OK bud, I'm going against society, my morals, and my judgement for you . . . you'd better be 110% committed to being a healthy you who exits his marriage the right way and enters a healthy marriage with me. But, of course, what are the odds that you'd be having an affair if you were this kind of guy? You would have gracefully and maturely exited the marriage that couldn't be salvaged already. He's having an affair because he's not healthy. And if you're not seeing his unhealthy behavior for what it is, then you have some work to do on yourself. When someone, anyone, deflects blame or manipulates you, your instinct should be, "OK, so you're THAT kind of person. Don't have time for this." If you are making excuses for the person, you are not valuing yourself the way that you need to and deserve to. Edited April 6, 2020 by heartwhole2 10
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 6, 2020 Author Posted April 6, 2020 @heartwhole2 you said this perfectly!! Thank you so much!! That was my exact response. I need to trust my initial response and stop trying to see it from his perspective. I’ve been patient and understanding enough. Gaslighting and making me question my decisions is never okay. If he truly loved me and was healthy he would respect my needs, end the marriage as he’s said he would, and then pursue me in a clean and honest fashion. 1
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 6, 2020 Author Posted April 6, 2020 1 hour ago, LilKatKat said: He will have a reasonable sounding excuse in a month. They always do. I have little doubt your story will end like mine. I hope I am wrong. As soon as they start deferring, that's a clear signal they are trying their best to keep the best of both worlds. Mine did ultimately come back a free man but then I found out about the other other because he didn't think I would take him back. Bought it again. Thing is, if you find yourself doubting him, loving him less, hold on to that. That's what I felt but ignored it. Thought I could recapture the first 8 months. Mostly I don't think that's possible. When you start to feel like that, it accelerates and you get what you expected to get. A whole lot more doubt and deception. That’s my instinct as well. So far it’s been excuse after excuse. Why expect any different? There’s not a reason to. He’s showed how unreliable he is. I need to take that for what it is. 1
elaine567 Posted April 6, 2020 Posted April 6, 2020 He' is not healthy and neither is the OP. She has put up with this nonsense for 4 long years. A healthy person would have walked away the first time she found out he was lying, not swallow lie after lie after lie... I get it, she wants him for herself, but when he makes no effort to want her for himself apart from empty promises then it is time to walk away... albeit 4 years too late... He has a wife and young children, like most of these guys he will not want to be seen as the "bad guy" so he tells his wife what she wants to hear and he tells the OP what she wants to hear... he does just enough to keep both plates spinning. 3
hippychick3 Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 OP, what ever happened with therapy? Did you go? I would assume any therapist would encourage you to stop any contact with this man who is clearly NOT the right man for you.
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 7, 2020 Author Posted April 7, 2020 23 minutes ago, hippychick3 said: OP, what ever happened with therapy? Did you go? I would assume any therapist would encourage you to stop any contact with this man who is clearly NOT the right man for you. Yep I’m in it now and it has been actually very eye opening! I have ended things with him but was just needing an extra boost today as many posters do. Thank you everyone who has been supportive and open to hearing me reflect. It’s useful to hear other’s stories first hand. Everyone heals differently! 2
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 7, 2020 Author Posted April 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, S2B said: If he rented that place why hasn’t he moved there yet? seriously why is he STILL at home if he’s paying for another place? i don’t believe him when he showed you he rented another place. and how dare he talk to you that way when HE is the MARRIED one cheating!!! he is completely disrespectful and an entitled jerk. Haha thank you!! Those are my exact thoughts!! I’m so confused about why you would be paying rent on an unused apartment. And I agree total jerk for turning things around on me especially when I’ve been nothing but supportive and patient through this entire process. 1
Mrin Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 OP: curious - go back to my big long giant post on page 3 where I laid out what I thought he was going to try to do to manipulate you. Was I accurate? Admittedly I've missed a few pages of this thread. 3
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 7, 2020 Author Posted April 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mrin said: OP: curious - go back to my big long giant post on page 3 where I laid out what I thought he was going to try to do to manipulate you. Was I accurate? Admittedly I've missed a few pages of this thread. @Mrin thank you so much for reminding me of that post!! Yes he’s done EVERY SINGLE ONE!!! 2
Allupinnit Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 13 hours ago, S2B said: If he rented that place why hasn’t he moved there yet? seriously why is he STILL at home if he’s paying for another place? i don’t believe him when he showed you he rented another place. and how dare he talk to you that way when HE is the MARRIED one cheating!!! he is completely disrespectful and an entitled jerk. This is what I was getting at. If he rented an apartment and is sick of his wife and marriage he'd have moved out already since he has somewhere to go. He's already letting 2020 slip into year 5 of this affair. Please know you are so much better than this. I'm always just amazed at how easily some people can lead a double life. Is he well-off? I can't imagine his wife would be ok with 1500+ per month going to an apartment when they've got children to support. 1
sandylee1 Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 This guy is seriously stringing you along. Showing you a bank statement with a sum to a letting agent is nothing. Proof would be a divorce petition. On the off chance there is one, it's not him who has filed for divorce. It will be her, because she can't get over his betrayed or SOSR.. some other substantial reason. As others have said, you're way too young to be wasting your best years with a cheater as a mistress. Why would you want the baggage of an ex wife and kids. It's too much hassle...even without an affair, being a stepmum can be extremely challenging. Your household income is already reduced because you have a man paying child and possibly spousal support to his Ex. I've seen so many stepmums feeling resentful over their partner paying the mortgage on the old house, going to fix things in the house when the ex clicks her fingers, agreeing to have the kids last minute for YOU to look after and so many more issues. Then you have a much older man who you could end up caring for while you're still young. He's so untrustworthy and manipulative, but you need to be stronger than that. Stop being his warm place to release his sexual tension. I don't see a happy ending to this. 1
Prudence V Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 11:10 PM, Husbandssecret said: he often turns it around on me. Anyone who cannot accept their own culpability is no good as a partner. Do you want to spend your life being blamed for everything that goes wrong? Do you want to be the “bad guy” always because he can’t own up to his own faults? My H’s xBW was like that. My xH was like that. I had a boss like that. It’s exhausting, and the gaslighting wears you down. Stand your ground. Insist on the time out. I’d go further - tell him you’ll only consider taking him back when he’s worked on his issues and has become acceptable partner material. Until then - let him be his BW’s problem. You aren’t beholden to him, and you’re free to choose who you invest your time and energies on. 2
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 9, 2020 Author Posted April 9, 2020 On 4/8/2020 at 6:47 AM, Prudence V said: Anyone who cannot accept their own culpability is no good as a partner. Do you want to spend your life being blamed for everything that goes wrong? Do you want to be the “bad guy” always because he can’t own up to his own faults? My H’s xBW was like that. My xH was like that. I had a boss like that. It’s exhausting, and the gaslighting wears you down. Stand your ground. Insist on the time out. I’d go further - tell him you’ll only consider taking him back when he’s worked on his issues and has become acceptable partner material. Until then - let him be his BW’s problem. You aren’t beholden to him, and you’re free to choose who you invest your time and energies on. Thank you for your advice! I told him at the very least I need to see that he's moved out. He told me he took next week off to do so, so if it doesn't happen it's more reason for me to just be done completely. I have stopped seeing him completely since about 2 weeks ago. He's tried every line in the book since then. 1. "We need to do this together, we always face things better together. During a time like this we need each other more than anything." 2. "I think you're no longer in love with me. You're being cold and I think you are just trying to get over me." 3." Maybe I just need to let you free and let you move on since you are obviously no longer in love with me." 4."I can't believe you're doing this so close to reaching our goal of being with each other every night and at a time where I need you most." 5. "If we go on a break it will ruin us. There's a way through this without ruining what is good which is our love." 6. my personal favorite "Your therapist is effing with your head" he's said that one multiple times. When I told him I wanted to take a break initially, I had said until the divorce papers have been filed. Then he told me that he can't petition for a divorce until they have been separated for a month-which I know is an absolute lie. The more I sit and reflect on how he has reacted with all of this, the more I've seen his true colors. He's willing to say anything to get me back to the OW position. I'm interested to see if he actually moves out next week like he said. I highly doubt it, but him not doing so will only make me more positive I'm making the right decsion by being done with this crap. 2
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) You have a much higher tolerance for crap that I would have... perhaps you need to lower your bar, just a little. Desperate people, do desperate things, in desperate times. I doubt that he will ever leave. This man has shown you by his words and actions, he can’t possibly stand on his own two feet. He clings to her, or he clings to you. Truth be told, he would like very much to cling to both of you. Perhaps, even go back and forth between you - if he ever did leave his marriage. If he does eventually move out, he needs to do it for the right reasons. That’s what you are trying to encourage, by insisting that he make his own decision. But, he is not capable of that right now. It’s not happening. You have essentially given him an ultimatum and he is currently acting out of desperation, under tremendous stress. There is no self determination here. If he did leave his marriage and move out of the marital home, the possibility that he would change his mind and return home would be very high. Edited April 9, 2020 by BaileyB 4
Allupinnit Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 @Husbandssecret - I really dislike how he puts all of this guilt on you when it's already been FOUR YEARS of the same excuses from HIM. He really can't think beyond his own selfish wants, forget that you've been patiently waiting for him all of this time. Almost like he wants you to feel sorry for his ass, as laughable as that is. "since you're obviously not in love with me" - do you know how manipulative that is? That isn't love. I met my H four years ago. Do you know how much life happens in that time? We got married, bought a home, struggled through job loss, got a dog, watched his father suffer from cancer, etc. He was also married before and has children - people divorce every single day (before he met me, that is). What have you to show for the last four years with this man? Your life is slipping away while he walks the fence between the life he signed up for and the life he's been promising you. I realize that you know this. But if he's only moving out to placate you without filing there's a very strong chance he'll end up back home once he misses his wife and kids and the reality of your sitch hits him and the fantasy is over. He doesn't need to take a week off work to move - he could have ordered a bed and packed a bag and been gone over a month ago and figured out the rest by now. Next week it will probably be something about the pandemic that prevents him from moving. 3
Prudence V Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 17 hours ago, Husbandssecret said: "We need to do this together, we always face things better together. During a time like this we need each other more than anything." You need him: * to do what he said he would. Not to come up with excuses for not doing so. * to end the marriage the right way, walk away completely done, not keep his options open in case he decides to return. * to become an acceptable human being who behaves in acceptable ways to those he claims to love. Who doesn’t manipulate and gaslight. * to treat you with respect, not as a prop for his own wellbeing. * etc. He needs you * compliant, so he can use you to plug the void in his soul. Doesn’t seem much of an equal exchange, to me. 7
pepperbird Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 9 hours ago, Prudence V said: You need him: * to do what he said he would. Not to come up with excuses for not doing so. * to end the marriage the right way, walk away completely done, not keep his options open in case he decides to return. * to become an acceptable human being who behaves in acceptable ways to those he claims to love. Who doesn’t manipulate and gaslight. * to treat you with respect, not as a prop for his own wellbeing. * etc. He needs you * compliant, so he can use you to plug the void in his soul. Doesn’t seem much of an equal exchange, to me. OP, There can often be a lot of disagreement on here, but when almost everyone is warning you to take care, there's a good reason for that. 2
BaileyB Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, pepperbird said: OP, There can often be a lot of disagreement on here, but when almost everyone is warning you to take care, there's a good reason for that. Prudence, that was a brilliant post. And pepperbird is correct. Which is why I say, you need to raise your bar when choosing a life partner (or lower it, as it relates to some of the crap he tries to pull). 1
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 On 4/9/2020 at 4:29 PM, Allupinnit said: @Husbandssecret - I really dislike how he puts all of this guilt on you when it's already been FOUR YEARS of the same excuses from HIM. He really can't think beyond his own selfish wants, forget that you've been patiently waiting for him all of this time. Almost like he wants you to feel sorry for his ass, as laughable as that is. "since you're obviously not in love with me" - do you know how manipulative that is? That isn't love. I met my H four years ago. Do you know how much life happens in that time? We got married, bought a home, struggled through job loss, got a dog, watched his father suffer from cancer, etc. He was also married before and has children - people divorce every single day (before he met me, that is). What have you to show for the last four years with this man? Your life is slipping away while he walks the fence between the life he signed up for and the life he's been promising you. I realize that you know this. But if he's only moving out to placate you without filing there's a very strong chance he'll end up back home once he misses his wife and kids and the reality of your sitch hits him and the fantasy is over. He doesn't need to take a week off work to move - he could have ordered a bed and packed a bag and been gone over a month ago and figured out the rest by now. Next week it will probably be something about the pandemic that prevents him from moving. Ugh this makes me so sad thinking about how much time was wasted. You are so right. There was life happening all around me and I was at a standstill. I am standing true to myself and will not accept him back into my life unless he can prove to be worthy. Now I’m at the point of deciding if it’s too much water under the bridge or if I can forgive him if he really does make these changes. I don’t think any of this was out of bad intent. I’m not sure where I saw this but I really liked the statement that said something along the lines of “he May not Have gone into it a cake eater but you made it easy and he became one”. That’s exactly what happened here. I should have stood up for myself a long time ago. 4
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 22 hours ago, BaileyB said: Prudence, that was a brilliant post. And pepperbird is correct. Which is why I say, you need to raise your bar when choosing a life partner (or lower it, as it relates to some of the crap he tries to pull). Yes thank you everyone for helping me keep strong. I’ve clung to the fantasy of a life with my AP for too long that it’s allowed me to overlook significant red flags and behavior that is never okay. He’s tried to get me to change my mind and go back on all of this because “this is all coming to an end, I promise”. But I’ve reminded him that his promises mean nothing to me as he’s never kept one. 3
Author Husbandssecret Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 8:55 AM, Prudence V said: You need him: * to do what he said he would. Not to come up with excuses for not doing so. * to end the marriage the right way, walk away completely done, not keep his options open in case he decides to return. * to become an acceptable human being who behaves in acceptable ways to those he claims to love. Who doesn’t manipulate and gaslight. * to treat you with respect, not as a prop for his own wellbeing. * etc. He needs you * compliant, so he can use you to plug the void in his soul. Doesn’t seem much of an equal exchange, to me. I love how well this was said! THANK YOU!! 1
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