Author Husbandssecret Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, S2B said: ^^^^ why are you taking anything he says to heart? He’s a known liar who manipulated women and talks mean to them. if you read the book “The Four Agreements” you will understand he’s not referring to you when he states he can’t trust you. thats a good book and may help you a LOT! when is your counseling appointment? Still on the waitlist... I will definitely get that book though. Thanks for the resource!
BaileyB Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said: I imagine he will keep this in the dark for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE because he doesn't want the repurcussions socially. It’s not uncommon for married men who divorce to end it with both the wife and the other woman. They are free to explore the dating world, without the expectations of a relationship or the complications that come along with their affair partner. Socially, it’s much more acceptable to divorce and find a woman who is not associated in any way with the demise of his marriage. To be very honest, this guy sounds good at cheating. He knows just the right things to say to get you into his bed and to keep you there. I would absolutely expect that he will have another affair - both because he’s so good at it and because he shows no remorse. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him... 2
Author Husbandssecret Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, BaileyB said: To be very honest, this guy sounds good at cheating. He knows just the right things to say to get you into his bed and to keep you there. I would absolutely expect that he will have another affair - both because he’s so good at it and because he shows no remorse. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him... Do you think he's had an affair before, or that he may be seeing other people besides me? That's definitely crossed my mind before. He's suave, sexy, successful. And veryyyy good at getting someone in bed. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. He got really weird once when I called him out on how quickly he approached me "trying to squash whatever was going on". I said that he did it so easily and then asked if he had ever had similar conversations. And he kind of said yes but then when I pressed more he got angry and shut down the conversation saying that I was using his response as a way to gauge the uniqueness of our relationship.
Author Husbandssecret Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, BaileyB said: He’s not going to get divorced. He’s had four years to divorce and it hasn’t happened. I find it sketchy that his wife is getting an apartment - more often than not, the man moves out of the family home, particularly if he is initiating the divorce. The whole story is just too much to be true. I've wondered if she is pressing for the divorce because of something more going on, either he really is a lion in sheep's clothing or she found out about a different A, either way I get the sense that maybe SHE is leaving because the marriage is unbearable. 1
BaileyB Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Husbandssecret said: I've wondered if she is pressing for the divorce because of something more going on, either he really is a lion in sheep's clothing or she found out about a different A, either way I get the sense that maybe SHE is leaving because the marriage is unbearable. Well, I don’t believe that anyone is leaving... But, who knows. Maybe she is leaving because she has information that you don’t have. Maybe she is leaving because life is intolerable. Maybe “she” is leaving so that he can explain to you why his address hasn’t changed. Maybe nobody is leaving... If she is leaving because life is intolerable, that’s another HUGE red flag. YOU actually have information that she doesn’t have - that he is a liar, that he manipulates well, that he is capable of carrying on a long term affair, and he shows no remorse. Consider yourself lucky that you have this information. I still find it odd that “she” would be leaving. Every situation is different, but I have mostly known the men to leave the family home when divorcing. I have to wonder why he gets to stay and she has to leave... 1
assertives Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said: Completely agree with you in that respect. Especially because you would think he isn't going to have much left in the gas tank after each day dealing with the after effects of a D. This allows the dust to settle and shows intentions as well. And it could help me be in a better place, not have resentment toward him for dragging it out so long, etc, during that time. However, he claims me leaving in the heart of all of his issues he has going on (D, death of family member, political drama at work, and how D is/will affect children), ruins any trust he has in me as a partner and makes him think I don't have the fight in me to go through all the tough times a lifelong comittment requires. I find that interesting since his dragging this out this long makes me lose trust in him, but for some reason his loss of trust is more important to address. What about YOUR trust in him as a life partner? Can you even trust him to be faithful to you say if he does divorce and you guys end up together? In case this needs spelling out, a relationship is a two-way street. What kind of qualties does he even have that make him a good lifelong partner?! How are you not disgusted and enraged by that BS. You don't have to answer this to us or discuss this with him. Answer this to yourself and be brutally honest. Also, you know, I would assume dad cheating on mom for almost half a decade would probably affect the children more than an amicable divorce. It would also be good to give serious thought about how you are going to deal with that label of the homewrecker and the relationship with his kids if and when your relationship with him is out in the open. This is likely going to be a lifelong struggle if you "win" him. Is this realistically what you want in life? You are only 26. As it is, life with the right person isn't long enough. Another day spent wasted on pining for someone's cheating husband is another day you cheated yourself of time with the right person. Think long-term. 2
Syre17 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: It’s not uncommon for married men who divorce to end it with both the wife and the other woman. They are free to explore the dating world, without the expectations of a relationship or the complications that come along with their affair partner. Socially, it’s much more acceptable to divorce and find a woman who is not associated in any way with the demise of his marriage. To be very honest, this guy sounds good at cheating. He knows just the right things to say to get you into his bed and to keep you there. I would absolutely expect that he will have another affair - both because he’s so good at it and because he shows no remorse. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him... @BaileyB Curious as to what the basis of your first statement is? Do you have objective evidence to support this? Also, on the second comment, as a male, I’d submit that the whole socially acceptable thing has little to no bearing on anything. In my experience as a male, most guys don’t care what’s “socially acceptable” at all. That’s why men generally do things that aren’t necessarily “socially acceptable...” such as fight, go to war and so on. 1
Mrin Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Husbandssecret said: I've wondered if she is pressing for the divorce because of something more going on, either he really is a lion in sheep's clothing or she found out about a different A, either way I get the sense that maybe SHE is leaving because the marriage is unbearable. Honestly I doubt she is actually leaving. Remember what I said about "new information"? It won't be verifiable by you. That is by design. And remember what I also said about him just tossing it out there - almost to rub your nose in it? Well that is the whole "this divorce is happening with or without you". Plus, let's think about this. This is a guy who supposedly waited four years to ask for a divorce because he didn't want to hurt the kids. Do you really think that he (or any parent) would follow up "hey kids, Grandpa died" with "oh ya your mom and I are divorcing" in the same weekend? Come on... They wouldn't do it in the same season or even half year. Yeah, often when a MM divorces, the OW and the BW get the axe. It is just reality. Easier to make a clean start and not have to face the "you're dating a 26 year old that you've been working with?!?" baggage. Seriously, how do you expect him to explain you to his parents? Or his couple friends? And you can totally see him saying, "I love you but I think I need some space to figure out who I am. And make a clean start. But we can still be friends right?" With that being said - I don't doubt you guys had/have an intoxicating connection. To some degree you're probably compatible. And that's awesome. But you have to understand that for four years you haven't been getting the full him. Nor he the full you. Just part. The full on romance. The full on sensuality. You don't see the rest of him. The sticky parts. The smelly parts. And, if you think about it, when you've shared the rest of you he's reacted poorly. He's recoiled. That's because what you've shared is just a facet of a full relationship with all of its not so romantic and sensual parts. Anyhow. I hope this helps. Let me know if I'm doing more than than good. 3 1
Author Husbandssecret Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 Everyone’s input has been so helpful! Very good points. I’ve always just told myself that living with those social side effects would be worth it for the connection we had. He often said it would be for him but he often worried that it would be hard for me. Like others have said I’m sure that he’s not the only “bad guy” in all of this. He fought this off for the longest time. In the beginning it was all lust but I pushed for more. I wanted him to love me. I could tell he kept me at a little bit of a distance but each time he would let me in more, I would feel like I had won. He even admits that last January was a turning point for him. He said that it was a moment that he realized that he was more invested in me than he intended to be or ever thought he would be. At the time I should have seen that as an issue, because that makes me believe he never lead me on. He was somewhat honest with me as far as expectations go. He’d make hints here and there that he maybe didn’t intend for us to be together forever. His actions were telling me that he didn’t want forever (pushing me away, staying married) but his words made me feel like he was in love. But maybe that is because he was conflicted internally. He didn’t want to screw up his family while also wanting to keep me around. He would ask me “do you worry about what your friends would think of the age difference?” And “how do you think your sister would take this”. But more recently, in the last 6 months it seemed like he’s given himself more to me... I know that sounds nuts but he told me he has our wedding down to the very last detail planned and has this grand surprise planned for us. I know everyone is going to say that’s a lie but I believe some of it. I believe that he fantasized about what it would be like. Maybe him “fighting me” was more of the push pull phenomenon that is explained in other threads. Honestly being in this type of relationship feels like a mind f$&* constantly. You replay different conversations and wonder if you wrongfully chalked it up to stress and it was actually them showing their true colors. He has tried to end this in the past (not this time) where I wouldn’t let him. I simply refused to let him go and like a drug he accepted me back in. So I think the addiction goes both ways. I don’t think he’s a bad person. I think this situation breeds really toxic qualities and breaks a person. Soon you find yourself doing things you never thought you’d do. Don’t get me wrong I accept full responsibility but my guess is he probably feels that same way. And then you’re in a spiral and you don’t realize you were spiraling until you have the rock bottom feeling. We both have lost parts of ourselves in this, fighting for what we perceived as true love. Maybe my theory about him being just as lost in this as I am is wrong. But I know I would reason away a lot of my guilt, so why can’t that be the same for him? I guess I’m just wondering, why does he have to be the bad guy? Maybe he truly did intend to do good but just ended up digging himself into a hole he can’t get out of. I’m just trying to be devils advocate. This kind of thought process, seeing the good in people, is probably what has gotten me into some toxic relationships.
Lady Cathryn Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 I was in the same place after four years. Wanting to leap away yet fear held me back. It still does. Fear I would not find that love again. Fear I am growing old. Fear I’m not lovable or good enough. Tonight I remembered the first time I went skydiving. The hardest part was taking that step out of the airplane! It’s rather counter-intuitive to do so! Once I did it was glorious! I was a different woman when I accomplished that. Letting go of the fear. 3
heartwhole2 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 I can't remember if it was this forum or another one, but I remember an OW who finally had enough and left her MM who had kept promising to move out/divorce but never did. Once she ended things and he realized she wasn't coming back, he (said he) moved out and filed for divorce. He even had a receipt for filing IIRC. Or claimed to. But when she called the court house herself . . . no record of any divorce being filed. He went that far to PRETEND he was getting a divorce. So my rule of thumb in life is when I realize that someone has lied to me about something small (or big), I stop investing in the relationship and put up walls. I don't lie to other people and I don't waste time with people who do. This guy constantly says one thing and does another. He's not going to change. You cannot trust him. 5
Author Husbandssecret Posted March 8, 2020 Author Posted March 8, 2020 Hello all, Just a brief update! It’s been a whirlwind and I’m feeling lost/confused. This past month has been overall good for me. I’m moving into a new place that is very close to a few of my friends and less inconspicuous to keep me accountable so that I don’t get sucked into the sneaking around patterns with my xAP. Also staying in my old place was filled with too many memories since that was where we spent the majority of our time. A few days ago my xAP and I met up because he wanted to show me evidence that he was getting a divorce. It was rent for an apartment. While I know this isn’t necessarily divorce papers and I know some of you will say don’t give him the time of day until he has divorce papers, I’m stuck with what to do with this. On one hand if he’s lying this is an insane lie and I’m having trouble wrapping my head around him being capable of that (stupid I know). On the other hand if it is real then he was telling me the truth that things were on the brink of ending. I’m carrying a lot of guilt about giving up on him in his time of need and I feel like a selfish person giving up while we were in the home stretch. He says they haven't physically separated yet but plan to next week when kids are out of school. Interestingly, she is going with him and the kids to an out of state memorial service for his family member that passed but she is “going to support the kids”. I am having a super hard time believing that they are separating the week following her going to this service. At the same time I can understand that a death in the family puts things on hold, that things aren’t always black and white and could see how he could be telling the truth. I guess my question is how do I proceed with this information? I’m so tempted to pick up where we left off because it sounds like it’s truly ending but at the same time I know this is a common AP move. Does anyone have experience with the AP faking physical evidence of a separation?
BaileyB Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it... His song and dance wouldn’t matter to me. I would be long gone already... 2 1
Author Husbandssecret Posted March 8, 2020 Author Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, S2B said: Yes, we hear this all the time here. have a boundary - tell him when he shows you the papers that his divorce is FINAL - that’s ONLY when you want to hear from him. so many MM pull this crap! Also, at times, they may move out but only to move back in a few months later - leaving the OW even MORE heartbroken. you have no idea if he really intends to divorce. Heck, his wife is attending a funeral with him. Those two scenarios don’t match up at all. just don’t communicate with him at all! believe me, IF he ever divorces - he will allow you to know and be capable of proving it! Papers to rent a place does NOT equate to any divorce. don’t be his sucker. You’re right! It doesn’t matter if he’s telling the truth or not, it matters if he’s actually divorced and he’s still not even physically separated. He’s managed to come up with quasi evidence and then have another excuse. I don’t know why it’s so hard to let go of the what if’s or the feeling of if you hold out longer it will be yours. It was never meant to be mine in the first place and I need to find a way to accept that. I honestly found myself thinking, wow just a little bit longer and we can finally have this! I think that’s what his hope is, to draw me in and keep me on the back burner to continue to use whenever he has the opportunity for as long as he can get away with it.
mark clemson Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 If he's really what you want, there is nothing to stop you from saying "great, that's progress!" or similar, reconfirming that you are what he wants (see below), and giving him more time. Keep in mind that, from what I've seen posted by way of estimates around here, only a very small # of affairs result in full LTRs. My understanding is it's on the order of 2%. We have an active thread you're probably aware of where the male AP went back to his wife after a year (of course, she was willing to take him). And many newly divorced men want to "play the field" for a while. So, you'd be keeping your life on hold for a very high risk attempt IMO. 2
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Husbandssecret said: A few days ago my xAP and I met up because he wanted to show me evidence that he was getting a divorce. It was rent for an apartment. He moved the goalposts... again. Be prepared for him to use that "death in the family" as a further excuse... As someone said previously who would say "Sorry kids your grandfather just died but I am now moving out and into an apartment" BTW I thought you said SHE was leaving not him 1
Author Husbandssecret Posted March 8, 2020 Author Posted March 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, elaine567 said: He moved the goalposts... again. Be prepared for him to use that "death in the family" as a further excuse... As someone said previously who would say "Sorry kids your grandfather just died but I am now moving out and into an apartment" BTW I thought you said SHE was leaving not him Yes she’s moving out according to him but he showed me a bank statement with the rent. I know I felt very much like he moved the goal posts. I tell him what I want and he comes back with this. And then of course he’s traveling with her again (which he promised after last August it wouldn’t happen again). Is it insensitive of me to say that that’s weird? Or not even weird but still feel like that qualifies as breaking his promise to not travel with her. It’s one excuse after another. I don’t even know why I am still pining after this dude. When I talk to you all on here it becomes clear to me my position on the totem pole of what’s important but when I bring it up to him he makes me feel crazy like I’m being pessimistic and need to enjoy more in the moment. The reality is that I’ve gotten an average of 8% of his time during the day after all is said and done. (I calculated the hours he is awake and how many hours I see him in a good week). I dk why I keep thinking that that is love. It’s breadcrumbs. 1
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said: Yes she’s moving out according to him but he showed me a bank statement with the rent She is moving out with the kids?
BaileyB Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said: And then of course he’s traveling with her again (which he promised after last August it wouldn’t happen again). Is it insensitive of me to say that that’s weird? Or not even weird but still feel like that qualifies as breaking his promise to not travel with her. Do you not see, that is an absolutely ridiculous promise to make. They are married. She is his wife. They share family, friends, children together. Of course they are going to travel together - vacation together, go to funerals together, etc... It’s absolutely bizarre to me me that you would expect him to promise, and keep his promise, not to travel with his wife and his children. It’s much akin to the OW and OM who get their nose out of joint when they learn their AP have been sleeping with their spouses - when they have promised that they would not have sex with their spouse. That person is their spouse - they are the ONE person with whom they are SUPPOSED to have sex. If you want to move forward, you have to challenge your illogical/fantastical thinking. 5 1
Hip Pocket Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 I’ve read so many fallacies and stereotypes on this thread but are any of them coming from an OP other than a fOP who is now M? (Great post btw Prudence!). First, the secrecy does not make it exciting. The chemistry and the not living together makes it exciting. Second. You’ve got to stop using phrases like he’s “giving you breadcrumbs” and “is this AP behavior” because there are no cookie-cutter behaviors in relationships. You either trust him or you don’t but if you don’t then why be in a relationship with him? You are fighting between your feelings and your logic which is normal for anyone in any kind of R but then add in online “friendships” with people who are not in an affair and cannot relate. Notice how they are being tame with you, it’s because you’re so agreeable but if you weren’t, they wouldn’t. So I say listen to your gut with regard to MM. You know him, we don’t. I usually encourage OP to work on their R like any M person would but when the OW doesn’t have kids I do hate to see them waste their time on a MM. If he moves out, fine, but if you want kids you’ve got a ticking clock. Even if he gets a D is he willing to have kids with you? Or do you not want kids?
Beca L Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Husbandssecret said: You’re right! It doesn’t matter if he’s telling the truth or not, it matters if he’s actually divorced and he’s still not even physically separated. He’s managed to come up with quasi evidence and then have another excuse. I don’t know why it’s so hard to let go of the what if’s or the feeling of if you hold out longer it will be yours. It was never meant to be mine in the first place and I need to find a way to accept that. I honestly found myself thinking, wow just a little bit longer and we can finally have this! I think that’s what his hope is, to draw me in and keep me on the back burner to continue to use whenever he has the opportunity for as long as he can get away with it. Hi, I’m sorry that you are going through a tough time and that your XAP is messing you about again. I think all the advice you are being given is pretty much spot on. I know it’s tough to hear and all you want to do is wait and believe that MM is telling the truth and that he will come through for you. However I know that even when they do leave it’s never a guarantee and they go back. My xmm went back after a year and over the last 2 years has tried to keep me on the back burner to use whenever it was convenient for him. It’s only being on this site that I have begun to see him for what he really is. My advise to you would be to tell him that he go away and sort his marriage out, separate, live on his own for a while and once the divorce is final and he wishes to pursue a relationship with you that he should get in touch. Otherwise you are not interested. You will not be his emotional crutch, friend, lover etc. He needs to be a big boy, pull up his big boy pants and get on with it himself. If you really want a relationship with him in the future this would be the only way. He needs to end that relationship properly and deal with the grief and ending before he can move on to a new one with you. Do not entertain anything else. Breadcrumbs ???? No thanks. Send him on his way. 1
pepperbird Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 8:17 PM, Husbandssecret said: Yeah I’m finding it pointless to even try to talk to him because it gives me zero closure and actually only makes me feel worse. It’s time for NC. He is “exhausted” by everything else going on in his life and “we have been good, so let’s not ruin the 1 good thing going on right now”. Basically he belittles the effects of the A on me and then uses all of the other drama in his life as an excuse to not have to confront my feelings. Granted, if someone truly has as much going on in his life, dealing with an unhappy girlfriend is another stress. I think he thinks my problems with our relationship are only coming to a head now because I want to make things about myself. I wish he realized that it’s the additive effects of doing this situation for 4 years and that even though his life is crumbling, it doesn’t mean these negative feelings/fears about being lead on etc don’t exist. We are just not on the same page at all. Oh, and as you all predicted, his wife has signed a lease on an apartment and they have told their kids. He says I can believe him or not but the D is happening with or without me. That part really messes with my head because I know past actions and statistically this is more likely a move of manipulation vs reality. But at the same time I keep thinking too, is this him moving things forward and him following through with his promise because he’s seen how this has affected me and I’m not doing the A anymore? Of course everyone thinks he’s a jerk, I’ve only given you the bad stories on here because I’m venting. Ughhhhhhh. Shouldn’t have ever gotten involved with this in the first place. The regret is at an all time high today. this guy's a real knob who has been treating you really badly. No one should have to put up with that, and his being married is no excuse for him treating you this way.
pepperbird Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 14 hours ago, Husbandssecret said: Yes she’s moving out according to him but he showed me a bank statement with the rent. I know I felt very much like he moved the goal posts. I tell him what I want and he comes back with this. And then of course he’s traveling with her again (which he promised after last August it wouldn’t happen again). Is it insensitive of me to say that that’s weird? Or not even weird but still feel like that qualifies as breaking his promise to not travel with her. It’s one excuse after another. I don’t even know why I am still pining after this dude. When I talk to you all on here it becomes clear to me my position on the totem pole of what’s important but when I bring it up to him he makes me feel crazy like I’m being pessimistic and need to enjoy more in the moment. The reality is that I’ve gotten an average of 8% of his time during the day after all is said and done. (I calculated the hours he is awake and how many hours I see him in a good week). I dk why I keep thinking that that is love. It’s breadcrumbs. op, there's no mystery here.This guy is a jerk. Look at the way he's treated both you and his wife! He showed you how he treats the people he claims to be important in his life. he is showing you his true character- he sounds very much like the type of person who sees the world and everyone else in it as being there to meet his needs-if he happens to do something nice for someone else along the way, great! The problem is, that's not his intention-it's a byproduct of him tying to get what he feels entitled to. Means to an end.
Author Husbandssecret Posted March 9, 2020 Author Posted March 9, 2020 19 hours ago, elaine567 said: She is moving out with the kids? Splitting kids 50/50.
Author Husbandssecret Posted March 9, 2020 Author Posted March 9, 2020 19 hours ago, BaileyB said: Do you not see, that is an absolutely ridiculous promise to make. They are married. She is his wife. They share family, friends, children together. Of course they are going to travel together - vacation together, go to funerals together, etc... It’s absolutely bizarre to me me that you would expect him to promise, and keep his promise, not to travel with his wife and his children. It’s much akin to the OW and OM who get their nose out of joint when they learn their AP have been sleeping with their spouses - when they have promised that they would not have sex with their spouse. That person is their spouse - they are the ONE person with whom they are SUPPOSED to have sex. If you want to move forward, you have to challenge your illogical/fantastical thinking. Obviously the illogical/fantastical thinking is what got me to this place. Relationships are difficult, add into it being an A and it makes it worlds more difficult. Nothing is black and white. Obviously it’s not as simple as do or don’t do because otherwise people wouldn’t fall into this and there wouldn’t be a support page for it.
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