Never thought I'd be here.

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

I didn't read all the responses and follow up to your original post.  I decided to end things with MM when I started focusing on me and not him.  I grew tired of the excuses that he was leaving his wife.  MM wasn't there for me during significant events in my life.  I felt I was putting my life "on hold" waiting for him.  Now it took me about 2 years to reach this point.  We still communicated but stopped meeting.  About 8 months later MM abruptly left his wife and drove to my house with suitcases.  Opening my door and inviting him back into my life was the  absolute worst mistake I've ever made.  

@CloudyHead I made a comment to the OP that if my former AP showed up on my doorstep now, I’d send her away.

I am very curious, and might be good for the OP and others to hear, why it’s been the worst mistake you’ve ever made? If you don’t mind sharing. 

[PhoenixRising8]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:34 PM, Husbandssecret said:

One side of me says that I’ve paid my dues and the time came and went, another promise broken, and that I need to be done. The other part of me is so in love with him that I don’t want to give up on him, especially in his time of need. I don’t want to hurt him while he’s going through stressful life events. I know there’s never a good time, but he is the love of my life and I can’t wrap my head around leaving him during such a stressful time. If I hang on for another couple months, will we get the happily ever after I’ve been waiting for? He says he has all these trips for us planned for the end of summer and fall where we will be “out in the open and doing this the way we have wanted”. with how things have gone I’m hesitant to believe him. And with how things have been going, there’s this feeling in my gut that they are far from being physically separated.

I am feeling so torn. I think I know the right thing to do but it’s so hard to actually go through with ending things. Any advice on how to move forward? I’ve thought about telling him that things are done and when he is actually divorced and if he still wants us then he can prove it by coming after me. I guess I’m in this weird spot where I know very well his actions aren’t matching up with his words. How did you all decide it was time to end things?

Things ended when my guilt over what I was doing to be complicit in MM's hurting his family became clear to me and overwhelmed me. I couldn't be with him without talking about it. That took the shine out of our affair. The truth, in my opinion, is that you are the emotional bandaid that allows him to stay in his marriage, which means he doesn't have to be the bad guy or split the assets. Meanwhile he has you to provide the emotional and physical connection we all crave. He hasn't hit rock bottom so there is no motivation to make any life altering changes. Nothing will happen until he is miserable enough for him to do that on his own. Even the most conflict avoidant will take action when they are miserable enough. Any reason he gives you for deferrals is an excuse to keep the status quo because it is comfortable and easy for him. Make YOU your first priority and end it. Yes it will hurt but you will survive. Let him hit rock bottom or not. Only then will you truly know what has been in his head and heart. If he loves you, he will become increasingly miserable without you and end it on his own without you pushing, prodding and waiting. If he never does, he hasn't been miserable enough despite what he says. My latest thread, which I will update shortly, may give you some insights in to the conflict avoidant man who cheats. 

[CloudyHead]

@Syre17 - When MM showed up at my house, part of me was thrilled that he left his wife for me . . . FOR ME!  I viewed that as the ultimate act of MM's love for me.  We were together 5-6 years. I was very much in love with him.  There were good moments.  MM repeatedly cheated on me.  He went into counseling.  I went to counseling with him.  He made commitments in counseling then broke them within weeks.  He ruined every holiday with his comments and actions.  My self-esteem was completely shredded.  I couldn't understand why someone who said he loved me and left his wife and adult children for me could treat me this way.  One day he came home and said the most horrible things to me and my kids.  My kids were upset and crying by what he said.  I was stunned.  I told him to leave.   Within a month another woman left her husband for him.  

I wasted several years of my life on him.  That's time that I can never ever get back.  Mind you I was in my early 40's with a career and my own business.  I am a very strong person but this affair shattered me.  I think that MM left his wife and pursued a relationship with me because I was a strong person and he relied on me to get him through his divorce.  He unexpectedly came to my business about 1 1/2 years afterwards.  When I saw him and talked to him, I felt relief that he was no longer in my life.  

I still think about him.  He did a great job of attacking my self-confidence.  I try to focus on the lessons I learned from that time in my life.  When you are in an affair, you live in a bubble.  Everything is great in the bubble.  But you never really know that other person when you're in the bubble.  

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - When MM showed up at my house, part of me was thrilled that he left his wife for me . . . FOR ME!  I viewed that as the ultimate act of MM's love for me.  We were together 5-6 years. I was very much in love with him.  There were good moments.  MM repeatedly cheated on me.  He went into counseling.  I went to counseling with him.  He made commitments in counseling then broke them within weeks.  He ruined every holiday with his comments and actions.  My self-esteem was completely shredded.  I couldn't understand why someone who said he loved me and left his wife and adult children for me could treat me this way.  One day he came home and said the most horrible things to me and my kids.  My kids were upset and crying by what he said.  I was stunned.  I told him to leave.   Within a month another woman left her husband for him.  

I wasted several years of my life on him.  That's time that I can never ever get back.  Mind you I was in my early 40's with a career and my own business.  I am a very strong person but this affair shattered me.  I think that MM left his wife and pursued a relationship with me because I was a strong person and he relied on me to get him through his divorce.  He unexpectedly came to my business about 1 1/2 years afterwards.  When I saw him and talked to him, I felt relief that he was no longer in my life.  

I still think about him.  He did a great job of attacking my self-confidence.  I try to focus on the lessons I learned from that time in my life.  When you are in an affair, you live in a bubble.  Everything is great in the bubble.  But you never really know that other person when you're in the bubble.  

 

@CloudyHead Thanks for sharing and I can totally relate. 

I was with my former AP for about the same amount of time as you with yours. 

Your comment that your self-esteem was completely shredded really resonated with me. I’m not an individual who lacks confidence, in fact, I’ve been told that I ooze it, have an advanced degree, am in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S., was a model when I was younger and still got it “going on” looks and body wise in my 40’s, but it was exactly the same for me. I’m definitely an incredibly resilient and strong person, like you, but never in my life did I feel so beat down, or so low as far as my self-esteem was concerned.

While mine did eventually rent in an apartment, she’d spend as many nights back at her home and under the same roof as her H as the apartment. But I was always “welcome to stay there...” alone...go figure. Was just curious about the showing up on the doorstep because at one point, my ex AP got really weird at the apartment. Just her actions and my sense was that something was off gave me a feeling like she perhaps had another guy around, outside of me and her H. Anyway, I’ve always wondered what’d be like if two APs actually ended up under the same roof... 

[CloudyHead]

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

[Husbandssecret]

11 hours ago, LilKatKat said:

Things ended when my guilt over what I was doing to be complicit in MM's hurting his family became clear to me and overwhelmed me. I couldn't be with him without talking about it. That took the shine out of our affair. 

I think we have been in that phase for the last 6 months. I can tell that he even began to get annoyed by me no longer being as shiny to him because all I could talk about was when he was going to leave and what the situation was doing to me. It got to the point where I just didn't like who I was. I was selling myself as this independent, single (to the world/friends/family), happy, genuinely good person. In realilty, I have been codependent, investing my time into a deadend relationship, and hurting other people without them knowing so. When I ended things I said that I need to be able to look myself in the mirror and be okay with who I am. I want the way that I have been selling myself to be who I actually am, which at one point I believe I was that. I just got a little lost. At the very beginning its easy to explain away the guilt, you find yourself making excuses because you are "star crossed lovers" who found each other at the wrong time. I don't think that exists anymore. 

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

@CloudyHead Mine as well, the self-esteem and confidence! Took some time, but in a much much better place. My life is pretty well back on track which is good, because it, the A and trying to navigate all the BS surrounding it, was all consuming at times. 

I will say though, there’s still fallout and elements of it all that “haunt” me to this day. My last girlfriend, told me that she ran into some people, one or more of which either knew me, or of me (I have no idea who) and shared with her that I had had an affair and left my wife for the AP. I do accept responsibility for what I did and my part in the whole thing, but it stung hearing that. That and knowing that random people were talking about it...and the impact it had on me trying to make a clean and fresh start. We reap what we sow as it goes...

Edited February 17, 2020 by Syre17
Added user

[Husbandssecret]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

We met up in different cities and countries as well, and it felt amazing. But there were times even on these trips I would find myself being disappointed by him. An example is we obviously  didn't have opportunites to have dinner and drinks like normal couples do. So when we were on a trip, we sat at this fancy bar and ordered some really cool drinks. We sat at a small table together. While waiting for our drinks, he stepped away for a phone call. He left me sitting there with his full drink for 1 hour. I ended up paying the bill, drinking his drink, and leaving. I guess what I'm reflecting on is even when he had the opportunity to "wine and dine" me, he was still not respectful of me or my time. 

[Husbandssecret]

3 minutes ago, Syre17 said:

@CloudyHead Mine as well, the self-esteem and confidence! Took some time, but in a much much better place. My life is pretty well back on track which is good, because it, the A and trying to navigate all the BS surrounding it, was all consuming at times. 

I will say though, there’s still fallout and elements of it all that “haunt” me to this day. My last girlfriend, told me that she ran into some people, one or more of which either knew me, or of me (I have no idea who) and shared with her that I had had an affair and left my wife for the AP. I do accept responsibility for what I did and my part in the whole thing, but it stung hearing that. That and knowing that random people were talking about it...and the impact it had on me trying to make a clean and fresh start. We reap what we sow as it goes...

It for sure has social consequences if its ever discovered and I'm sorry that it still is following you. At least you can own up to it and hopefully it demonstrates to the next person you end up with that you have learned a lot about your mistakes and how healthy relationships should be. 

I've thought about how to face future relationships being that only 1 person in my life knows about the A. One part of me thinks being upfront and honest about it starts a fresh and clean relationship. But the other part of me thinks that this is my private journey. I guess we will see how to handle that as I cross that bridge. Right now I feel very anti-dating. I don't want anything to do with a romantic relationship. I know time will heal this. 

[pianomanwoman]

You know, you could ghost him.  Block him.  NC for him and Grey Rock him.  I was ghosted by my MM for three months, and he was always ready for more action, no matter how much time went by.  He was not happy when I refused to be physical, and ended those meetings after an hour.  So now we are friendly.  I know he will never get a divorce.  It takes years, not months to forget, so stop listening to his B.S.  You have got so much support on Loveshack.  I know its hard.  Please don't cry.  Don't be his friend now, its too soon after the break up.  Trust me, after a while, when you are ready to end it you will look back and NOT want to be with him.  Hopefully you will meet a man who can give you all of his attention and love.  I look at my EXMM as a guy who cannot help me out when I am down because he is married and unavailable.  His ghosting me was an easy way out for him, and he was always too busy for me in the affair, that has not changed, but I have a better life now, and brand new friends who want to fix me up with someone new.  It's been a slow process, because I loved him, my friends were supportive of me, and reading posts here helped me move on. Three years ago, I never thought I'd fall for that again. My heart was fully healed on my birthday last year, and all the little heartbreakers wished me a "happy birthday" on social media and I blocked one big loser who tried to friend request me hopefully forever!   Good luck to you once you wake up, resist the urge to hurt him, or contact him , because you are just hurting yourself and keeping the affair alive.

[Husbandssecret]

It's definitely hard, especially in these first few days. Today I've been scouring the internet for similar stories to mine. Ones where he swears he's not sleeping with her, that he has his own bedroom. And ones where he keeps postponing the divorce for years. I have been finding it helpful to read those stories because it brings me back to reality a little. I know that going NC is the best for my healing but I feel for my own healing process I need to say some things (with help of therapist) so that I know I get those off my chest and will make saying goodbye forever easier. 

I dk why but today I am really struggling with questioning if he's ever going to get a divorce. It doesn't even matter, yet I've found myself obsessed with that today. Maybe the sunk cost fallacy is kicking in. When I think about it practically I think, yes 4 years he's had to get the divorce and he hasn't. Anyone else have specific stories of MM giving excuses for prolonging the divorce? Could be helpful for me to hear. 

Sorry I'm all over the place today! I would argue this is worse than just a normal longterm relationship breakup. 

[Husbandssecret]

I'm not struggling with wanting to go back, I'm struggling to understand the situation. How someone can lead someone that they love on like that. I guess I am more so trying to wrap my head around this very new discovery that he's not who I've painted him to be for the past 4 years. These are all very good points. That if he truly loved me he would put my needs first. He was so good at manipulating me and thats the part I'm struggling with. What is reality and what is manipulation? I know for a fact it doesn't take 4 years to end a marriage amicably. And everything we had was based on WORDS, not actions. He would say things like "oh I was going to surprise you for your birthday but you were out of town" or "I was going to get those exact ray bans for you for christmas but your sister got them for you". This was just last christmas and I was elated because I thought "wow he THOUGHT about getting me a gift?" Because he hasn't ever given me a gift. But if he truly was going to get me those glasses he would have bought them or bought an alternative gift. So stupid. I don't know why I blindly believed him!!

[Prudence V]

7 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

And everything we had was based on WORDS, not actions.

I’m fOW, happily married to my fMM for more than a decade... so proof that it can, and sometimes does, happen. But I think the above quote is key - my H’s words always matched his deeds. He didn’t just tell me he loved me - he showed me. He didn’t just fantasise about “being together one day” - he made it happen. Yes, he also had obstacles - a BW who tried every stunt in the book, prolonging the divorce and trying to seduce him into returning, trying to alienate the kids, etc. And yes, he did initially feel obliged to “stick it out until the kids were old enough” because of his own experiences as the child of divorced parents, but despite all the obstacles he was clear that he wanted to be with me and did what it took to get there. The kind of magical thinking some MM demonstrate - as though just stating something like “I want to be with you forever” would somehow wish it into being - is at best naive, at worst shorthand for “but it’s never going to happen because I don’t value you enough to take the actions that would make it happen”. 
 

Wanting an amicable divorce is a noble goal, but sometimes hard choices need to be made. Few BW are going to grant an amicable divorce if they find out there’s an OW in the wings, especially one of several years’ standing, who’s being put on hold while he tries to keep the BW sweet. Most BW that I know IRL would far prefer the honesty of the H who says, “I’ve fallen for someone else and want a D”. And no MM worth having would try the manipulative tricks this guy has pulled on you. This is all about him, and his needs. F you ever did land up together, it would still be all about him and his needs. Who’s got time for that? 

[Syre17]

10 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

It's definitely hard, especially in these first few days. Today I've been scouring the internet for similar stories to mine. Ones where he swears he's not sleeping with her, that he has his own bedroom. And ones where he keeps postponing the divorce for years. I have been finding it helpful to read those stories because it brings me back to reality a little. I know that going NC is the best for my healing but I feel for my own healing process I need to say some things (with help of therapist) so that I know I get those off my chest and will make saying goodbye forever easier. 

I dk why but today I am really struggling with questioning if he's ever going to get a divorce. It doesn't even matter, yet I've found myself obsessed with that today. Maybe the sunk cost fallacy is kicking in. When I think about it practically I think, yes 4 years he's had to get the divorce and he hasn't. Anyone else have specific stories of MM giving excuses for prolonging the divorce? Could be helpful for me to hear. 

Sorry I'm all over the place today! I would argue this is worse than just a normal longterm relationship breakup. 

@Husbandssecret A lot of folks here have commented that if the MM wants to leave, they’ll do it, and not make excuses. For the one perspective, in my case, my then W discovered text msgs between my AP and I. Within 24 hours of the discovery, I had packed some clothes, and left, and stayed  with my mom until I could sort out my next move so to speak. I never went back and never even once considered it. So, I am of the camp that if a person wants to leave, they’ll darn sure do it. 

Once I was on my own, the excuses I heard from my AP were:

*I don’t want to stress my parents out. Bear in mind, my AP was a 49 year old woman at the time. 

*Her dad passed away. Then, she didn’t want to further stress her mom out. This despite her mom not particularly liking her H at all for some of the the things he’d done to my AP in the past.

*Now his (her H) mom is not well. Don’t want to add that stress to the H.

*Daughter is starting school. Don’t want to stress her out at the beginning of the school year.

*The holidays are coming up. Let’s just get through the holidays, and I promise, I’ll do something. I think at least two, maybe three “holidays” came to pass.

*I have to drop off and pick up the dogs at the groomers today, so I can’t go get an apartment. No joke this happened!

*I want him (the H) to want the divorce or file on his timeline; it’ll make it better if he’s in control. 

*My H had an abnormal medical test results. I hate to do this now, and leave, but I know I need to. 

*Its my daughters birthday coming up. I promise, I’ll do something after that.

*I have that family trip coming up, so it isn’t good timing, but you know I’m only doing it for my daughter.

There were probably more excuses, but these are the ones I remember. 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Syre17
Content

[Daisydooks]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:34 PM, Husbandssecret said:

If I hang on for another couple months, will we get the happily ever after I’ve been waiting for?

No. Dont cling to a mistake because you have spent a lot of time making it. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Daisydooks said:

No. Dont cling to a mistake because you have spent a lot of time making it. 

As Doctor Phil says, “the only thing worse than wasting your time in a dead end relationship for four years is staying in that same relationship for four years and one day...”

Time to cut your loses and run. As Prudence says, this relationship has been all about him. It will always be one sided because that’s the kind of guy you’ve got here. This is the kind of guy who even if you “won” him and he left his wife, I would imagine that he would have another OW on the side. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

[Daisydooks]

11 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

That if he truly loved me he would put my needs first

He comes first. His children come second. His wife comes third. You may be somewhere around 4th. Maybe... if not further down the line. You come nowhere near first. You're not even a close second or third. 

The hardest part about being intertwined in this mess is there is no understanding a selfish douche bag. I get why you want to understand it. But you simply cannot understand insanity or delusion  because it's not understandable. It's not logical to try to understand illogical behaviour and there is no logic in illogical behaviour.  

What do his actions tell you? If he said 0 words in 4 years and you looked only at his actions, how much would you then believe? His actions tell you he isnt serious about you whatsoever. What do his actions tell you? His words mean nothing. His actions are telling. Why are you not able to differentiate them? You dont have to answer here, but ask yourself why youre believing words over actions (I love you for example.) Love is an act, not a word 

A man who doesnt want to be married to his wife, will get a divorce, despite the hurdles. End of story. Exit affairs dont take years. There are VERY few exceptions where men actually even leave their wife, let alone leave to be with the OW. 

My ex had an OW for a short time. 2 months-ish. She started getting a bit nosey so he told her about me thinking she would stay happy like that, as he couldnt hide the fact that he had never once had her over, she had no idea where he lived, and she was never in contact over the weekend or at night. It was obvious to her he was hiding things so she pressed for answers.  He was at home with me.

She pretended to be ok with it while she figured out how to get ahold of me. She broke down and freaked out so he told her we were separated, I was awful, we never had sex, and didnt sleep in the same bed. We lived together because I was stuck and I couldn't afford to leave. All of it was bull. Once I met her, I put a lot of these lies to rest and she believed me because of MY ACTIONS. I left within 2 weeks of speaking to her (even though he told her I was too stuck financially to move out.) All bs. He told her we werent sleeping together while we were actively trying to have a damn baby. Fertility meds and all. He told her we didnt sleep in the same bed. We had one room and one bed. He told her I was awful. He told me and showed me differently. 

We were actively using fertility meds to conceive, actively sleeping together numerous times a week (at least every other day as we were trying to have a baby,) we were definitely sleeping in the same bed and cuddled every night and at the time, he was head over heels in love with me as per his behaviour (actions and words) with me. I knew nothing of this separation as we were very together and not ever separated. We had never even spoken about separating let alone mentioning divorce. Not even one time. We only had one bedroom in our place. We both slept in it. She believed all of it because she believed his words. His actions proved he was just cake eating

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Daisydooks

[Husbandssecret]

Yeah I’m finding it pointless to even try to talk to him because it gives me zero closure and actually only makes me feel worse. It’s time for NC. He is “exhausted” by everything else going on in his life and “we have been good, so let’s not ruin the 1 good thing going on right now”. Basically he belittles the effects of the A on me and then uses all of the other drama in his life as an excuse to not have to confront my feelings. Granted, if someone truly has as much going on in his life, dealing with an unhappy girlfriend is another stress. I think he thinks my problems with our relationship are only coming to a head now because I want to make things about myself. I wish he realized that it’s the additive effects of doing this situation for 4 years and that even though his life is crumbling, it doesn’t mean these negative feelings/fears about being lead on etc don’t exist. We are just not on the same page at all. Oh, and as you all predicted, his wife has signed a lease on an apartment and they have told their kids. He says I can believe him or not but the D is happening with or without me. That part really messes with my head because I know past actions and statistically this is more likely a move of manipulation vs reality. But at the same time I keep thinking too, is this him moving things forward and him following through with his promise because he’s seen how this has affected me and I’m not doing the A anymore? Of course everyone thinks he’s a jerk, I’ve only given you the bad stories on here because I’m venting. Ughhhhhhh. Shouldn’t have ever gotten involved with this in the first place. The regret is at an all time high today. 

[assertives]

Well, you technically can "hang on" and still move forward in your life. A relationship is just an addition/supplement to your life, and not life support. You don't need to put everything on hold to wait for him. Telling him to contact you when the ink on his divorce papers is dry gives him space to sort out his feelings and the end of his marriage properly without the distraction of an affair. It also gives you the space to think and see for yourself who this man really is and if you can actually be happy when you get him. You may find that your feelings may change when some space and clear thinking is allowed to happen. 

If you guys do end up together after he sorted out his divorce, settled his family and close that chapter of his life before starting a new chapter with you, it would at least be a healthy and strong start. Of course, this would also help expose his intentions if he never planned to divorce and be with you properly. So it's a win-win for you imho.

[Mrin]

OP, you had asked this a while ago and I didn't hit the post button. Why he didn't get a divorce: because he didn't have to in order to get what he wanted. Let's look at this objectively from a fairly crass point of view. He has a wife who runs the house. Probably takes care of the kids. Buys and cooks the food. Gives him that family vibe. He's a 40+ year old dude. Has a comfortable life. Sounds accomplished. A mom for his kids. A wife to bring to company outings and BBQs with friends.

And he has this 20-something bombshell in you. He can have wild monkey sex with you. Lavish you with romance. Go on trips together. You make him feel young. Alive. He probably got a huge ego rush out of it. when he's probably hanging with the other 40 something old dudes in the office and your name comes up, the other guys are like"damn she's gorgeous!" He just smiles and says inside "if you only knew..." Dude had his cake and got to eat it too.

Why would he want to screw that up? A divorce? Kiss half his assets goodbye. Lots of drama from the ex-wife, the ex in-laws, the kids, his family, his friends etc.  Has to raise the kids half time. Alimony. House cleaning. Totally cramping his ability to travel for business or for pleasure. That's even without putting you in the picture.

You put you in the picture and all of a sudden he's a 40 plus old dude dating a 26 year old. Who works with. That means employer problems. Lots of people asking uncomfortable questions. Weird looks. It isn't a good look at all. He's going to start thinking about whether he wants to have kids with you or even marry you. It's a whole bunch of problems to get what? What he already has? Why would he go through all of this to get basically what he already had with you? 

I'm sorry if this is hurtful but I want you to understand probably how he looks at it. 

Hang in there!

Mrin

Edited February 18, 2020 by Mrin

[Syre17]

3 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Yeah I’m finding it pointless to even try to talk to him because it gives me zero closure and actually only makes me feel worse. It’s time for NC. He is “exhausted” by everything else going on in his life and “we have been good, so let’s not ruin the 1 good thing going on right now”. Basically he belittles the effects of the A on me and then uses all of the other drama in his life as an excuse to not have to confront my feelings. Granted, if someone truly has as much going on in his life, dealing with an unhappy girlfriend is another stress. I think he thinks my problems with our relationship are only coming to a head now because I want to make things about myself. I wish he realized that it’s the additive effects of doing this situation for 4 years and that even though his life is crumbling, it doesn’t mean these negative feelings/fears about being lead on etc don’t exist. We are just not on the same page at all. Oh, and as you all predicted, his wife has signed a lease on an apartment and they have told their kids. He says I can believe him or not but the D is happening with or without me. That part really messes with my head because I know past actions and statistically this is more likely a move of manipulation vs reality. But at the same time I keep thinking too, is this him moving things forward and him following through with his promise because he’s seen how this has affected me and I’m not doing the A anymore? Of course everyone thinks he’s a jerk, I’ve only given you the bad stories on here because I’m venting. Ughhhhhhh. Shouldn’t have ever gotten involved with this in the first place. The regret is at an all time high today. 

@Husbandssecret Hang in there and do try for NC. 

When I was with my former AP, I heard the same thing from her...”this is exhausting...” despite the fact that I made it so “easy” for her to carry on with us and the whole deal, me almost always being flexible, accommodating and understanding. It’s a really cheap and low shot in my opinion. You, like me, seem to have invested much time and energy into making things easy for “them” and for him to imply that it’s “exhausting...” Wow... Like the emotional rollercoaster, push/pull, excuses and uncertainty from them isn’t exhausting..? You know why it’s exhausting for them? Because they’re conflicted cowards who can’t stand on their own two feet and make a firm decision or sense of anything, no matter how uncomfortable or challenging it may be for them.  

[Husbandssecret]

1 hour ago, assertives said:

So it's a win-win for you imho.

Completely agree with you in that respect. Especially because you would think he isn't going to have much left in the gas tank after each day dealing with the after effects of a D. This allows the dust to settle and shows intentions as well. And it could help me be in a better place, not have resentment toward him for dragging it out so long, etc, during that time. However, he claims me leaving in the heart of all of his issues he has going on (D, death of family member, political drama at work, and how D is/will affect children), ruins any trust he has in me as a partner and makes him think I don't have the fight in me to go through all the tough times a lifelong comittment requires. I find that interesting since his dragging this out this long makes me lose trust in him, but for some reason his loss of trust is more important to address. 

[Husbandssecret]

1 minute ago, Syre17 said:

@Husbandssecret Hang in there and do try for NC. 

When I was with my former AP, I heard the same thing from her...”this is exhausting...” despite the fact that I made it so “easy” for her to carry on with us and the whole deal, me almost always being flexible, accommodating and understanding. It’s a really cheap and low shot in my opinion. You, like me, seem to have invested much time and energy into making things easy for “them” and for him to imply that it’s “exhausting...” Wow... Like the emotional rollercoaster, push/pull, excuses and uncertainty from them isn’t exhausting..? You know why it’s exhausting for them? Because they’re conflicted cowards who can’t stand on their own two feet and make a firm decision or sense of anything, no matter how uncomfortable or challenging it may be for them.  

SO TRUE! The expectation is to be super accommodating, drop your plans last minute for a quick meetup, stay in on saturday nights even if the chance of not seeing eachother is like 95%. The expectation is to be understanding. Fun and completely loving the second they come in the door. And then if you ooze 1 ounce of discontent or sadness you can see their entire body language change. The interaction that is already short gets cut shorter. They don't have energy for any drama with you because theyre already getting drama from their W/H and all other areas of life. You must be on your best behavior. He's never said that to me but I definitely feel the pressure to burry my feelings and act as though everything is okay. Just last month I went on a trip with a girlfriend to HI, and when I came back he kept sending me sexually explicit emails etc and wanted to see me right when I got back. So I sort of complained and made a joke that he only missed the sex and not me. I really had this gut feeling that I couldn't shake that he was only seeing me so quickly because he needed a sexual fix. So when he came over I said, "oh I'm exhausted from the long flight, can we snuggle and just catch up some on life" etc. At first he seemed all for it, but it took maybe 5 minutes for him to start trying sexual advances. I kept shutting it down and saying, listen I really just want to catch up! I haven't seen you in 10 days, like lets just soak up being here with each other. And maybe 10-15 minutes into the visit I still refused sex so he threw a fit and got up and left because I "had an attitude" and "when you're in a bad mood there's no changing it because that's how you want to feel". I was so dumbfounded and still to this day keep replaying the scenario. Questioning myself if I had a bad attitude or maybe I was being rude or snotty. But I really don't think I was...

[BaileyB]

He’s not going to get divorced. He’s had four years to divorce and it hasn’t happened. I find it sketchy that his wife is getting an apartment - more often than not, the man moves out of the family home, particularly if he is initiating the divorce. The whole story is just too much to be true. 

I hate to say it, but he’s just not going to leave his wife and the mother of his children - not for an affair partner. I’ve said it before, and Mrin just said it again - the optics are bad, it’s not in his financial best interest, there are complications at work, complications at home, etc... It’s just not going to happen. Not for a guy who hasn’t even given you a gift. 

I’m sorry, but it doesn’t serve you to continue to support the fantasy you have created about this man and this relationship. I truly hope that you are able to let him go - you have way too much to lose if you don’t. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by BaileyB

[Husbandssecret]

42 minutes ago, Mrin said:

OP, you had asked this a while ago and I didn't hit the post button. Why he didn't get a divorce: because he didn't have to in order to get what he wanted. Let's look at this objectively from a fairly crass point of view. He has a wife who runs the house. Probably takes care of the kids. Buys and cooks the food. Gives him that family vibe. He's a 40+ year old dude. Has a comfortable life. Sounds accomplished. A mom for his kids. A wife to bring to company outings and BBQs with friends.

And he has this 20-something bombshell in you. He can have wild monkey sex with you. Lavish you with romance. Go on trips together. You make him feel young. Alive. He probably got a huge ego rush out of it. when he's probably hanging with the other 40 something old dudes in the office and your name comes up, the other guys are like"damn she's gorgeous!" He just smiles and says inside "if you only knew..." Dude had his cake and got to eat it too.

Why would he want to screw that up? A divorce? Kiss half his assets goodbye. Lots of drama from the ex-wife, the ex in-laws, the kids, his family, his friends etc.  Has to raise the kids half time. Alimony. House cleaning. Totally cramping his ability to travel for business or for pleasure. That's even without putting you in the picture.

You put you in the picture and all of a sudden he's a 40 plus old dude dating a 26 year old. Who works with. That means employer problems. Lots of people asking uncomfortable questions. Weird looks. It isn't a good look at all. He's going to start thinking about whether he wants to have kids with you or even marry you. It's a whole bunch of problems to get what? What he already has? Why would he go through all of this to get basically what he already had with you? 

I'm sorry if this is hurtful but I want you to understand probably how he looks at it. 

Hang in there!

Mrin

You honestly couldn't have said it better. I had brought basically all the things you said above to him a year or so into the A and then repeatedly accused him of being a cake eater throughout the 4 years but he would somehow sweet talk me into changing my mind. He says things like "think about our love and our connection. Someone can't have that deep of a connection" if they are sleeping with someone else or if they're lying etc. So then I would think, yes our connnection is unreal when we are together. The conversation, humor, passions in life all line up. But you're right. He still takes her to big fancy gatherings etc because shes the mother of his children and honestly I think he really loves coming off as the happy father and husband. He wears that well to the public. You've made a really good point. Let's say he does get a D. I imagine he will keep this in the dark for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE because he doesn't want the repurcussions socially. He's been priming me for that already. He told me when they do get a D we would have to be sensitive to the kids because he wouldn't want other parents to isolate his kids because he is dating the hot young chick, newly D, etc. Which yes, to an extent makes sense, parents do that stuff often and the kids take the fall because parents are judging other parents. But I really do wonder if he deep down knows he doesn't want to bring it into the light because the social stuff matters to him too much.