How to get closure from dishonest GF? I am experiencing PTSD

[Lotsgoingon]

I can't tell if you guys started with sex and officially talked and moved into something more serious or if YOU, in the middle of a sexual relationship, all of a sudden fell hard for her without a reciprocal response.

Those are two different scenarios. 

My gut says you fell hard for her all of a sudden, but you didn't tell her and didn't establish a new relationship. So things are fading right now, but the tie was never that deep in the first place.  

[wilson1]

10 hours ago, preraph said:

I think you fell in love with the person you hoped she would be. 

For sure i did. I fell in love with someone who didn't exist. 

[preraph]

We've all done it. It's just hard to let it go. Sometimes I think the people who seem to have successful relationships more easily cable face no charges are those who are just not in love with an ideal but are able to see and get to know who's in front of them and are tolerant enough to be open to different people.

[wilson1]

On 2/15/2020 at 5:03 AM, preraph said:

We've all done it. It's just hard to let it go. Sometimes I think the people who seem to have successful relationships more easily cable face no charges are those who are just not in love with an ideal but are able to see and get to know who's in front of them and are tolerant enough to be open to different people.

Absolutely. I just need to make my BS detector more accurate for the next relationship and make sure whoever I am dating is real.

[rjc149]

It's hard looking past a nice body and good sex to see the red flags. 4 months also isn't a lot of time to see the warning signs. But a few indicators would be:

Did you meet her on Tinder? Because if she met you on Tinder and had sex with you on the 1st date, she's done the exact same with other guys (as you found out) and will very likely continue pursuing this dating strategy. 

Did you ever catch her small white lies, or get the sense that she was lying just for its own sake, to see if you'd believe her? Did she ever unreasonably accuse you of lying? Liars lie habitually even when unnecessary, and see lies in everyone else. 

Did she have an anxious attachment style? Was she needy and clingy in general? Anxious women put their emotional needs first and foremost, and will seek out validation from the most available source whether that's her boyfriend or someone else in the background when her anxious panic tells her that her connection to her boyfriend is weakening. 

Obviously the fact that she monkey-branched to you wasn't known to you when you hooked up with her, but that should come as no surprise to you, nor should it be to any of the men she will subsequently cheat on. I'll go on to suspect that the majority of her relationships began and ended with cheating. 

Tomboyish mannerisms in women, ie. smoking, excessive swearing, tattoos, less feminine dress and style, etc. often indicates an underlying resentment for men and male standards, often stemming from a bad relationship with her father. It means she doesn't fully respect her relationships with men, which are simply there to fill a void and thus replaceable. She isn't satisfied in a submissive female role, so she'll be jockeying for control over the relationship, and when she senses she doesn't have that control, she'll feel contempt for you and attempt to regain control by some retributive act (ie. her Tinder encounter). I'm not saying all women with daddy issues will lie and betray, but a bad relationship with her father is a huge red flag that will result in a multitude of problems for you, and it's something you can find out relatively early and easily. 

Maybe some food for thought. At the end of the day, however, speculating and wondering won't give you the answers, and neither will she. You already have the only answer you need about this girl. It will take time, but you will eventually learn to accept that answer and be okay with it. And try to be glad that you were only involved with this girl for 4 months and you got out relatively unscathed. Feel for the poor shmuck who has kids with her or ends up married to her. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by rjc149

[wilson1]

3 hours ago, rjc149 said:

It's hard looking past a nice body and good sex to see the red flags. 4 months also isn't a lot of time to see the warning signs. But a few indicators would be:

Did you meet her on Tinder? Because if she met you on Tinder and had sex with you on the 1st date, she's done the exact same with other guys (as you found out) and will very likely continue pursuing this dating strategy. 

Did you ever catch her small white lies, or get the sense that she was lying just for its own sake, to see if you'd believe her? Did she ever unreasonably accuse you of lying? Liars lie habitually even when unnecessary, and see lies in everyone else. 

Did she have an anxious attachment style? Was she needy and clingy in general? Anxious women put their emotional needs first and foremost, and will seek out validation from the most available source whether that's her boyfriend or someone else in the background when her anxious panic tells her that her connection to her boyfriend is weakening. 

Obviously the fact that she monkey-branched to you wasn't known to you when you hooked up with her, but that should come as no surprise to you, nor should it be to any of the men she will subsequently cheat on. I'll go on to suspect that the majority of her relationships began and ended with cheating. 

Tomboyish mannerisms in women, ie. smoking, excessive swearing, tattoos, less feminine dress and style, etc. often indicates an underlying resentment for men and male standards, often stemming from a bad relationship with her father. It means she doesn't fully respect her relationships with men, which are simply there to fill a void and thus replaceable. She isn't satisfied in a submissive female role, so she'll be jockeying for control over the relationship, and when she senses she doesn't have that control, she'll feel contempt for you and attempt to regain control by some retributive act (ie. her Tinder encounter). I'm not saying all women with daddy issues will lie and betray, but a bad relationship with her father is a huge red flag that will result in a multitude of problems for you, and it's something you can find out relatively early and easily. 

Maybe some food for thought. At the end of the day, however, speculating and wondering won't give you the answers, and neither will she. You already have the only answer you need about this girl. It will take time, but you will eventually learn to accept that answer and be okay with it. And try to be glad that you were only involved with this girl for 4 months and you got out relatively unscathed. Feel for the poor shmuck who has kids with her or ends up married to her. 

 

Wow, this is the most insightful comment i read so far, thank you. Are you a psycologyst?

To answer your questions

1- Yes, it was Tinder. I didn't consider her girlfriend material in the beggining, but we grew close to each other and at some we were constantly talking and seeing each other almost every day. Plus she said she was not seeing anyone else.

2- 
I did not catch any small lies at the time, even if there were lots of them. If i had caught her, it would have raised alerts. This is longer to explain. I only found out after the relationship ended. She is one of the smartest people i met in my life, she is simply brilliant. I haven't done an IQ test on her but i am pretty sure she has to be on the top 1%. Just to give a small example, she is russian, never lived out of the country, comes from a poor family, however she taught herself english, and she speaks perfect within 2 months. Furthermore, she uses words that sometimes i have to look up in the dictionary because i don't even believe they exist, and she uses them perfectly. I often believe she writes better than a native english speaker. This is only 1 example. She is studying to be a lawyer and i am sure she will be one of the best out there. The point is: She is also the best liar i met in my life. Her use of language is simply incredible and she can convince you of almost anything. I am usually quite good at spotting liars and i consider myself quite smart. So being fooled until the very end made me feel like an idiot.  Liars usually contradict themselves over time or their stories change, but she was incredibly consistent in everything she said over 4 months, and she could tell you a story in detail which never really happened.
There were a few minor red flags, but she always gaslighted me. For example she told me she lost her virginity 1.5 months before meeting me (she is 21), and that after having a fight with this german guy she lost her virginity to, she ended up having sex with another guy like a week later. And 1.5 months since losing her virginity she had sex with me. 
Only after our relationship ended, i found out that in reality she was still in a "long distance relationship" with this german guy by the time she had sex with me. 

The reason i caught her lies in the end (too late of course), is because she had an itunes backup of her phone on my laptop. I did not have the password, so i could not read anything (but she did not know this). So after our breakup i made her confess a lot of things thinking that maybe i could read her itunes backup. There were dozens of lies that are too many to post here. And i am pretty sure i only know maybe 10% of them.

I still feel i don't have closure somehow, and i don't know who is the real person i was dating all this time. What i do believe is i fell in love with someone who didn't exist. And i also believe she has a lot of traits of borderline personality disorder. (again, only noticeable after the breakup, otherwise i would have ran away before). She has a history of trying to kill herself when she was a teenager, has an alcoholic abusive mother, her father apparently hit her mom with a chair and she almost saw her die, etc etc. I didn't know any of this until after the breakup.

But again, i don't know what to believe anymore. When she was with me in the relationship, she behaved like an angel (infront of me), everything else happened in the background.

I kicked myself for never ever checking her phone during the relationship. Or i never even opened her tinder. She had it, but she said it was only to look for girls for us to have a threesome with, and she hadn't swiped on any guys in months. All a lie of course.

3- I am not familiar with attachment styles, but i can tell you this: She was very submissive in and out of bed. In the sense that she liked to please me in any way she could. In bed she loves BDSM and super rough sex. She is also bisexual so we did threesomes together. Simply put, there is not a single sexual fantasy i did not tick off with her. And every single time, sex was incredible. She was simply insatiable and i don't remember her ever saying "no" to anything i ever wanted to do in bed. 
The problem in hindsight, is that if she never said no to me, she probably never said no to any other guys... who knows. Again, this was not obvious at the time, it is only evident now.
At the time, she swore she never went on any date with anyone since she met me. And she said she never ever cheated on anyone.

4- She has no tattoos. I would not describe her as a tomboy. I would describe her more as "nerdy" style. Imagine a law student, who was virgin until recently. Slightly out of shape, no makeup, baggy clothes. Her hair was half brunette (super long roots) and half blonde, as if she hasn't visited a hairdresser in ages. However i did believe she had natural beauty. Soon after we started dating she started working out, doing her makup, dressing better, did her hair properly, and she actually became what i consider a hot girl in a matter of months.
I cannot say she had daddy issues but more like "family completely f***ed up issues".

5-  "And try to be glad that you were only involved with this girl for 4 months and you got out relatively unscathed. Feel for the poor shmuck who has kids with her or ends up married to her. " this is what i try to tell myself every day. Thank you. I am still in some kind of fight or flight mode since a lot of things trigger memories and makes me wonder how i could get out of the relationship before getting hurt if i come across someone like this again.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by wilson1

[Miss Spider]

On 2/11/2020 at 5:22 PM, wilson1 said:

Yes you are wrong. It was tinder, and it was not the first time she goes on a date. So "The fact it was a recurring argument ultimately led to her acting out.". She was acting from way before, my "unreasonable jealousy" turned out to not be unreasonable at all in the end.

 

The question is how to avoid being in this situation again.

How to avoid being cheated on? When you find out, there are forums of people who would love to know. You can’t, unless you avoid relationships. That’s the whole point of it. It  is a form of deception and trickery. You can decrease the likelihood by getting the know the person’s character more,  but even then, you can never really know the person isn’t capable of cheating.I’m sorry this happened to you. 

[rjc149]

Well, that's a good bit more insight. And no, I'm not a psychologist haha. I just make it a point to study relationships and how to be better at them. 

She's 21, really just exploring and finding herself and she is clearly quite sexually liberated. She was not going to remain in committed a relationship with you or anyone. Young women with insatiable sexual appetites who are into BDSM, threesomes, Tinder hookups and bisexuality aren't going to make good, stable girlfriends. You can project your desires and fantasies onto her all you want, you can love the sex, but in the end, you weren't going to turn this ho into your housewife. She's going to keep being a ho. She was never yours, it was just your turn.

I think the signs were there, and in some cases she was even telling you exactly who she is and what she's all about. Your vision was just clouded by feels and hormones. Also, I'm guessing you're younger, early-mid 20's --- there's still a lot to learn and experience, so chalk this up as a lesson on what to look for in a partner. A chick who is cruising Tinder for hookups and BDSM threesome participants isn't someone to bank on. 

[wilson1]

On 2/17/2020 at 6:30 AM, rjc149 said:

Well, that's a good bit more insight. And no, I'm not a psychologist haha. I just make it a point to study relationships and how to be better at them. 

She's 21, really just exploring and finding herself and she is clearly quite sexually liberated. She was not going to remain in committed a relationship with you or anyone. Young women with insatiable sexual appetites who are into BDSM, threesomes, Tinder hookups and bisexuality aren't going to make good, stable girlfriends. You can project your desires and fantasies onto her all you want, you can love the sex, but in the end, you weren't going to turn this ho into your housewife. She's going to keep being a ho. She was never yours, it was just your turn.

I think the signs were there, and in some cases she was even telling you exactly who she is and what she's all about. Your vision was just clouded by feels and hormones. Also, I'm guessing you're younger, early-mid 20's --- there's still a lot to learn and experience, so chalk this up as a lesson on what to look for in a partner. A chick who is cruising Tinder for hookups and BDSM threesome participants isn't someone to bank on. 

I agree with "she was not going to remain committed to you or to anyone". However, why do these kind of women ask you to be in a committed relationship if they are not willing to do it?

[rjc149]

Well, these kinds of women are the ones you should be avoiding.

There was probably a part of her that did want a committed relationship. In the moment she asked you, she meant it. That's how she felt in that moment, and it was genuine. But women's emotions change like the weather. How she feels about you today is not necessarily how she will feel about you tomorrow, and a lot of it has nothing to do with you. That's how female emotion works. It's fluid. 

But now you know -- her 'anything goes' personality and sexually promiscuous behavior profile is simply not wired for a committed monogamous relationship. If a girl has a history of stable, committed relationships without any abuse or cheating, it's a good bet you'll have a similar relationship with her. If she's out having threesome, cruising Tinder for sadomasochistic sex and coming home splattered with another dude's cum, it's a good bet you shouldn't be taking her requests for commitment seriously. You just need to know the type of woman you're dealing with and set expectations accordingly. 

[elaine567]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:56 PM, wilson1 said:

: She was very submissive in and out of bed. In the sense that she liked to please me in any way she could. In bed she loves BDSM and super rough sex. She is also bisexual so we did threesomes together. Simply put, there is not a single sexual fantasy i did not tick off with her. And every single time, sex was incredible. She was simply insatiable and i don't remember her ever saying "no" to anything i ever wanted to do in bed. 

My guess, childhood sexual abuse.

[Commongoal123]

You can't squeeze water out of a stone my friend.

[wilson1]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

My guess, childhood sexual abuse.

I have a similar guess. I never got the opportunity to ask her about this though. 

 

What I know for sure is that her mom was alcoholic and her dad beat her mom, that's all I know

[Redhead14]

On 2/10/2020 at 8:44 PM, wilson1 said:

Hi Everyone, i haven't been in the forum since years ago so i hope you guys can help me.

I met a girl last year and we dated for 4 months. It started as just sex (we had sex on the first date), but the best sex of my life hands down. Soon i realized she is incredibly smart, one of the brightest people i met in my life despite being so young, and i enjoyed also spending a lot of time with her. I initially didn't see as girlfriend material because of some specific dealbreakers that i have. For example i don't like smokers and she did smoke, and despite being beautiful she was not really a girly girl, never wore makeup, never dress up, didn't really workout or go to the gym. But soon after we started dating, she told me she quit smoking, she started going to the gym with me, started taking care of her hair, doing makeup, and she actually became really hot towards the end. Basically she started becoming the woman of my dreams really fast, and by the 4th month i was in love with her and thinking "this is it".

Unfortunately, she betrayed me in a horrible way and now i suffer some form of PTSD (its been 4 months since the relationship ended and i can't get over it). On a friday night, we had a small argument, she left my home in the middle of the night and had sex with the very first stranger she could find on tinder, she came back home right after having sex with him, with her makeup all moved around, a huge bite mark on her neck, and even the guy's sperm still on her, she didn't even shower and she came back home with the exact same clothes she left.

I still want to throw up when i remember it.

Since then, i started investigating and found out a huge amount of lies during our whole relationship. I feel now that she was a complete stranger and that i fell in love with someone who didn't exist. I even go as far as thinking she has some personality disorder (i believe borderline), which is based only on things i found after the breakup. 

I will not get into all the details as this is incredibly wrong, but mostly i have kicked myself for not catching even 1 of her lies during 4 months. And i am in a constant fear of falling prey to something like this again.

I have a lot of questions in my mind about what i should have done. I often think if i would have checked her phone at any point in our relationship, none of this would have happened and i wouldn't be hurt.

Some questions:

1- Do you believe is acceptable to check someone's phone during a relationship?

2- If i come across a situation like this in the future, how can i detect any of this dishonesty before i get hurt? Especially when we are talking about an incredibly smart liar.

3- Even though it's been 4 months, i still have a million unanswered questions about our relationship. Some people told me to not dig anymore, but i still feel i need answers. Do you guys recommend ever reaching out and trying to get those answers from the person in any way? Any chance they will ever come clean about what really happened? I feel understanding what really happened will help me not fall trap into a similar situation in the future.

4-Any recommendations on how to get closure, and how to get over the constant flashbacks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Son, I'm sorry you're struggling and I don't know how old you are, but you are having an extreme reaction to the end of a 4 month relationship and you were clearly over invested at 4 months in.

That said, you were simply the victim of a young woman who is/was desperate to have a boyfriend.  Some women will become chameleon's in order to hold on to a guy who shows just the slightest interest.  This is a problem with her, not you.  And, while that does happen occasionally, I don't think it's something you should be overly concerned about running into again.  Her behavior for running to some other guy and having sex and then coming back to you immediately is a sign of significant mental and emotional deficits.  In other words, she has serious issues. 

And, you should not ever contact her again for any input or closure.  Why expose yourself to more pain from her????  PTSD is an extreme reaction to this and you need to get a grip.  I'm being tough here because I think you need that.  Take yourself by the shoulders and tell yourself that this girl isn't worth what you're putting yourself through.  If anything, you should feel sorry for her.  She's on a path that is not good for her or anyone she might date.  You've dodged a bullet here.  That should give you some relief and closure.  If you're struggling with intrusive thoughts of her, some people find it useful to put a rubber band on their wrist and snap it when the thoughts come up and then make themselves do something else, anything else to distract them.  Get out and have fun with friends more often.  Find some hobby to do. 

And, no, it's not appropriate for anyone to go through your phone.  Closure comes from within.  You learn to accept that this was not mean't to be and keep putting one foot in front of the other.  Take some more time for yourself and get past this.  Then start dating again and just enjoy dating and don't get too invested too quickly.  Take things at a pace that allows you to get to know each other while still having a good time.  You know what to look for now in terms of running into this situation again, so you're better prepared now.  Look at it as a lesson learned.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Redhead14

[wilson1]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:42 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

I can't tell if you guys started with sex and officially talked and moved into something more serious or if YOU, in the middle of a sexual relationship, all of a sudden fell hard for her without a reciprocal response.

Those are two different scenarios. 

My gut says you fell hard for her all of a sudden, but you didn't tell her and didn't establish a new relationship. So things are fading right now, but the tie was never that deep in the first place.  

She was the one who proposed the idea of committing to each other

[wilson1]

2 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

Son, I'm sorry you're struggling and I don't know how old you are, but you are having an extreme reaction to the end of a 4 month relationship and you were clearly over invested at 4 months in.

That said, you were simply the victim of a young woman who is/was desperate to have a boyfriend.  Some women will become chameleon's in order to hold on to a guy who shows just the slightest interest.  This is a problem with her, not you.  And, while that does happen occasionally, I don't think it's something you should be overly concerned about running into again.  Her behavior for running to some other guy and having sex and then coming back to you immediately is a sign of significant mental and emotional deficits.  In other words, she has serious issues. 

And, you should not ever contact her again for any input or closure.  Why expose yourself to more pain from her????  PTSD is an extreme reaction to this and you need to get a grip.  I'm being tough here because I think you need that.  Take yourself by the shoulders and tell yourself that this girl isn't worth what you're putting yourself through.  If anything, you should feel sorry for her.  She's on a path that is not good for her or anyone she might date.  You've dodged a bullet here.  That should give you some relief and closure.  If you're struggling with intrusive thoughts of her, some people find it useful to put a rubber band on their wrist and snap it when the thoughts come up and then make themselves do something else, anything else to distract them.  Get out and have fun with friends more often.  Find some hobby to do. 

And, no, it's not appropriate for anyone to go through your phone.  Closure comes from within.  You learn to accept that this was not mean't to be and keep putting one foot in front of the other.  Take some more time for yourself and get past this.  Then start dating again and just enjoy dating and don't get too invested too quickly.  Take things at a pace that allows you to get to know each other while still having a good time.  You know what to look for now in terms of running into this situation again, so you're better prepared now.  Look at it as a lesson learned.

Thank you, i really appreciate your words