Sister is OW with child

[Catillion]

First I would like to say hello,

OW who get's pregnant my sister has a baby , my other sister thinks that i'm wrong, i agree with the F my sister knew he had a wife, and two kids she went after him she was in there house smiling and sleeping with the H , now she wants him to be a father to the baby, Myolder sister thinks that he should step up,

I say he shouldn't for what he told her to abort she wouldn't thinking he would see the baby realize he wants it then want her, what!

I tell her i don't think he owes her sh*t, i am upset with her , it's my sister but what about the baby , what are you going to tell her when she asks for daddy, that he lives down the street with his wife and kids, and when she ask to go see him, oh you can't because he never wanted you,

why the hell would someone bring a baby into this knowing he gave her money for an abortion,

she went shopping, its her body so it's her choice if she chooses then she is responsible not him, now she throughs my neice in the wifes face, using her as a prop, trying to get something she know would never be and is not ashamed no remorse at all, this is not a first child by the way and yes i'm a women, so i know the whole story, he thought she was on birth control she lied from her own words not his, i think that women like her should be made to suffer, i love her but what she did and is doing is wrong,

she did it on purpose he offered child support and that's all, even though i don't think that she deserves that, they should take the babies and give then to real families , no child should go through this, i know what i said was harsh but she still doesnt see they need a law on this she thinks everything going to go and her favor i don't know of any women who tried to trapped a man by getting pregnant on purpose work out he still never leaves and your the one whos stuck, you have to get up at night, where's he at home with his wife not losing any sleep, her friends say he should be there , he should be responsible why should he she knew, what kind of dad would he make anyway he's made it clear, i told her find a man of your own whos you and your kids so that they could grow up with love, not pity

sorry about that bad format

[newbby]

well at the end of the day, its too late now. she already has his baby, so judging her on her actions is not really helping anything. she needs help to move on from him and i dont think making her feel bad will do that. i dont think that her child should be taken from her, but, whatever her choices were, she does need some support and if you cant bite your tongue and be supportive then my advice to you is keep away from her.

[Catillion]

I supporting her i babysit, give money, the baby's beautiful, it's what she's doing now waiting for his W to leave the house trying to get me to walk with her and the baby down the street so she could see it.

Questioning neighbors trying to find out whatever, she refusing to give up. She's not thinking of the child, only herself, that's why I'm harsh towards her I love her but don't really care about her feelings, I care about my neice though , she's my older sister, btw this is her second child, the first time she wasn't judge she got a baby shower, we all give her money , help her, I told my mom we should cut her off, we supported her the first time, we don't do it for her, well kind of, but for the children so that they know love, so even if they find out how they came to be hopefully it won't matter so much since they were well loved and cared for

It's like an epidemic I'm young and my cousin 16 three kids no daddys and thinks it ok, some people are single parents by force . divorce, death,did not know about mm being married, there single parents by choice, I know it's not like that all around

i just don't see a good reason the first time , ok, the second time, sometimes more than that , the mm is to blame also, but since we as women are making it so easy for them ,

[Catillion]

ps. not trying to offend anyone here this is towards my family my situation

[TheDiva]

I supporting her i babysit, give money, the baby's beautiful, it's what she's doing now waiting for his W to leave the house trying to get me to walk with her and the baby down the street so she could see it.

Questioning neighbors trying to find out whatever, she refusing to give up. She's not thinking of the child, only herself, that's why I'm harsh towards her I love her but don't really care about her feelings, I care about my neice though , she's my older sister, btw this is her second child, the first time she wasn't judge she got a baby shower, we all give her money , help her, I told my mom we should cut her off, we supported her the first time, we don't do it for her, well kind of, but for the children so that they know love, so even if they find out how they came to be hopefully it won't matter so much since they were well loved and cared for

It's like an epidemic I'm young and my cousin 16 three kids no daddys and thinks it ok, some people are single parents by force . divorce, death,did not know about mm being married, there single parents by choice, I know it's not like that all around

i just don't see a good reason the first time , ok, the second time, sometimes more than that , the mm is to blame also, but since we as women are making it so easy for them ,

 

I am seriously at a loss for words here! This issue is kinda personal for me. Personally I would be for taking away the children. I know I know:o judgement there. But from what I am reading your sister uses the baby thinking MM will be hers. That poor little baby! I am glad she has a good Auntie to be there for her. Sorry I can't really help here.

[newbby]

i am sorry but i still think your sister needs some emotional help and guidance, not in the form of judgement. you may be supporting her by doing things for her, but, i mean emotional support.

i dont agree she should be taking the baby to their house, she shouldnt, but she needs some kind of counselling or something to accept that this mm just isnt interested.

the more she feels unloved and judged by you, her family, the more desperate she will be for this mans affections. yes she needs to grow up and accept it, i agree, but, i dont think that the harsh judgements help.

is she a good mother aside from this? is she depressed? she sounds like she needs some counselling or something.

[Catillion]

She has been to counseling, we give her emotional support , she's just one of those girls, I think she gets a little too much support from us, because she knows that we'll be there for She should have known better, Our father while married to our mother has a child around my age.

I think that if we support her this time it's like saying its okay , this is the second time.

My mom thinks that I'm being harsh also , and won't back me, I guess I'm mad i used to look up to her now I am very ashamed of her, not like i don't want to be seen it's that shes proud, and to rub it in that womens face. she's showing no remorse, I know that I shouldn't be like I am because it's not me, what about my neice, what she going to tell her when she ask for her daddy, that he's down the street at home with his wife.

I just cant see how she could do that to someone, and bring a child into it, I'm not mentioning the daddy much , Because he won't have to be the one to explain to my neice why he's not there if he don't want to .I love her and my neice, mom says I don't understand cause I have no kids, wrong is wrong, I spoke my piece already , I guess i'm trying to understand something that I cannot I just wish that she wasn't this way I guess this is just a vent BTW she lives with us, and I could but won't be away from my nieces i love being a aunt , she could move my neices can stay,

[newbby]

i get that you love your neices but she is their mother and she loves them too. what kind of remourse would you like your sister to show you? would you prefer she begged for forgiveness?

[Barby]

not like i don't want to be seen it's that shes proud, and to rub it in that womens face. she's showing no remorse,

 

I can see where you're coming from. Granted...MM is NOT an "innocent" party here....but she really shouldn't be attempting to rub the "W's" nose in the fact that she had "MM's" baby. It is also very sad that she attempts to use the baby as a device/tool to reel "MM" back to her.

 

now she wants him to be a father to the baby, Myolder sister thinks that he should step up,

I say he shouldn't for what he told her to abort she wouldn't thinking he would see the baby realize he wants it then want her, what!

 

Now see..this is the really annoying thing about women who do this..........she KNEW where he stood/how he felt about her having this child. It sounds like he was straight foward with his intentions to NOT be involved in this baby's life by giving her the money to abort. (which is sad but apparently what he thought would be best). She KNEW before hand that he would NOT be a "father" to their child.

 

I can certainly understand her holding out "hope" but to honestly "expect" it, that's obsurd because he didn't lie to her about his intentions. Now her thinking the baby is leverage to make him return/remain in her life (basically forever) is sad and borderline pathetic!!!

 

 

 

 

what kind of remourse would you like your sister to show you?

 

 

Just a bit of self respect and human compassion I'm sure. I don't know the whole situation but if his "W" knows about the A and the new baby....I'm sure she's tormented enough as it is. Then having the "OW" as a neighbor and seeing her on a daily basis coupled with having her walk by the "W's" home with the intent of capturing the "MM's" attention/affection just adds insult to injury.

 

It's not that the poster expects her sister to "repent" so much, but just have common decency. (or so it sounds)

[newbby]

barby, watch that judgementalness

[RecordProducer]

I tell her i don't think he owes her sh*t, i am upset with her

The child is already made by him so he does owe her child suport. Wise of him to offer it without interference of court.

I think that women like her should be made to suffer, i love her but what she did and is doing is wrong

She didn't kill anyone; on the contrary, she gave life to two children and accepts the responsibility for raising and loving them. It's tough for her, she pays for her "mistakes" (if she considers them mistakes at all), but she should be admired for her courage to have those babies. I don't understand why you have so little understanding for your sister and so much understanding for this cheater. He is the one who did the least moral deed - betrayed his family. If men didn't cheat on their wives, other women wouldn't get pregnant with them. So you think it's okay to sleep (he is good and owes your sister nothing according to you), but not okay to have a child. Both partners are responsible for pregnancy. She didn't steal his condom from the garbage!

 

This is one of the case where family membres should accept the fact that it's her life and she brings the decision independently. Keeping the children is her decision, not a topic for discussion and should be treated as such. You don't have to agree with her, but you don't have to judge her either. You can't change anything, but your sister will never forgive you for being against her when she most needs your support.

 

she did it on purpose he offered child support and that's all, even though i don't think that she deserves that, they should take the babies and give then to real families , no child should go through this, i know what i said was harsh but she still doesnt see they need a law on this

 

No law will tell me what to do with my body and my baby!!!!! If I want to have a fatherless child, it's my own right. Why do you think that "real" families are necessarily happier? There are many fathers who are abusive, alcoholics or leave their children. I agree that ideally a child needs a father, but you can't force your sister to give the child for adoption because of that fact. My ex-husband left me when my twins were still babies. If he had left me while I was pregnant, should I have given my sons for adoption? Hell, no! This is not about what she did on purpose, this is about playing with the cards that are already dealt. She is pregnant, she is having her child, and I admire her for that, although I agree with you that she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place.

 

i told her find a man of your own whos you and your kids so that they could grow up with love, not pity

 

It seems that they will grow up with love anyway. I feel pity for children who live in unhappy families more than for fatherless children.

[newbby]

great post rp, i completely agree with you.

[newbby]

and i would like to add, that if you care about your neices so much, you will not make their mother feel unhappy, whilst she is doing her best to raise them alone.

[RecordProducer]

It sounds like he was straight foward with his intentions to NOT be involved in this baby's life by giving her the money to abort.

It sounds to me like he wasn't straightforward about it enough when he was putting his penis between her legs!

great post rp, i completely agree with you. and i would like to add, that if you care about your neices so much, you will not make their mother feel unhappy, whilst she is doing her best to raise them alone.

Thanks, newbby, and I agree with you also. Catillion, if you love your nieces so much, how will you explain to them one day that you wanted their mother to give them away for adoption?

I supporting her i babysit, give money, the baby's beautiful, it's what she's doing now waiting for his W to leave the house trying to get me to walk with her and the baby down the street so she could see it.

You're not obligated to do any of it. However it seems that your parents and other sisters are being supportive and willing to help her. That's very nice of them, although I agree with you that she finds it too easy since everyone around her is being suportive of her "mistakes."

 

When my ex-husband left me with the little kids (they were 2 y.o.), I moved in with my mom in her apartment. She was a great help and supported me until I started making money. She turned out to be the boss in the house, doing everything her way and before I do anything, and she is accusing me of being ungrateful and disrespectful. She somehow got me into this maelstrom while I would prefer it if she let me raise my children in my own way and not interfere so much. I've heard accusations about me marrying my ex, depending on her, and ruining her life by bringing my kids in her life.

 

So my mother is being judgemental of my mistake (marrying my ex) although he was the one who left me and I had no place to go, no money, and no job. She has said many times that I was a fool to have children and that she shouldn't have taken me back. The main reason why I married so early (I was 23) was to run away from her husband who had molested me in the past. I suppose I wanted a baby right away because I've been lonely my whole life. I admit I made a mistake, but she made me pay for it in the emotional way. I got help from her but the emotional support was missing. This is one of the case where words hurt me more than actions would.

 

Catillion, I have a few questions for you: how old is your sister? Who is the father of her first daughter and how old is she now? Does your sister make enough money for herself and her kids?

[newbby]

i agree with this. when people give practical support, but, emotional attacks, it is much worse than if they gave neither. the more that people do for her, but simultaneously make her feel useless, the weaker she will feel.

this is why i suggested to you that you keep out of your sisters way, unless you can have compassion and understanding (not pity) for her, and definetly do not give her any practical help if it is not coming from the heart.

the best help she could ever have is to know that she is loved and accepted and admired for the fact that she is raising her children alone.

i am sorry, but, it makes me angry when people criticise single mothers in this world rather than admire them.

[d'Arthez]

Catillion is not obliged to give any support to her (SIS). Not by law, and you could even argue the same point on moral grounds - yes. It would be immoral to ruin your own life on behalf of another family member who refuses to be responsible.

 

It is Catillion's life, and she does not have to let it be ruined, because SIS prefers having kids with married men. Because of the somewhat bizarre nature of the laws on child-support (it is as if a man can be raped by a woman, and he would still owe child support), SIS will get child support from the two fathers of her two children. SIS has to raise the children on that - and given that she probably had been very selective in choosing her target-MM (it was not an accident after all), I doubt that both MM are too poor to pay, and thus are required to pay her larger sums than strictly necessary for the maintenance of the two children.

 

I am not saying that living on child support is ideal. I would not advocate it, but SIS seems to believe in the feasability of the whole project. If not, she needs to grow up, and grasp the whole concepts of 'responsibility' and 'remorse', which she is clearly lacking. Until SIS does, you are almost wasting every effort - and these efforts would not simply be made if SIS had not been so deceitful with her MM.

 

It is great, that Catillion's family 'sacrifice' their own lives to put up with the irresponsible behavior of SIS - but Catillion is in no way forced to do the same. Occasionally baby-sitting, yes perhaps. But not because SIS decides to want to party all week long, and go to bars - there needs to be a GOOD reason. That will come as a shock to SIS, no doubt.

 

Catillion has her dreams too. College perhaps. And baby-sitting SIS's kids and going to a college 3000 miles away don't go together. I know, we are talking about life here - but that in no way gives SIS the right to ruin the lives of everyone around her. And SIS seems to take pleasure in it - as if the whole universe revolves around her, so SIS does not even see the damage she is inflicting on everyone around her.

 

Accidents can happen, of course also with sex. This was not an accident. It was clearly planned, even though SIS did not get what she wanted. That is not because MM was deceitful - but because her plan was simply idiotic. SIS admitted herself that she lied about the birth-control. What is accidental about that?

 

In short Catillion has to make a very tough decision for herself: what is more important? Her own life, and her dreams and things she wants to pursue? Or the relationship with SIS? The latter will probably always be strained, as it is very unlikely that Catillion will see SIS's behavior in the past as responsible in the future. And then we are not even mentioning the dreams Catillion might miss out on pursuing. Would not they create resentment, also?

 

Then of course, there might be backlash from the family, or support for Catillion. The only way for her to find out, is to talk to them about the issues that are now part of her life.

 

Catillion is supportive of SIS. But that does not have to last into eternity, especially if that would come with a high cost for herself.

[newbby]

Catillion is not obliged to give any support to her (SIS). Not by law, and you could even argue the same point on moral grounds - yes. It would be immoral to ruin your own life on behalf of another family member who refuses to be responsible.

 

It is Catillion's life, and she does not have to let it be ruined, because SIS prefers having kids with married men. Because of the somewhat bizarre nature of the laws on child-support (it is as if a man can be raped by a woman, and he would still owe child support), SIS will get child support from the two fathers of her two children. SIS has to raise the children on that - and given that she probably had been very selective in choosing her target-MM (it was not an accident after all), I doubt that both MM are too poor to pay, and thus are required to pay her larger sums than strictly necessary for the maintenance of the two children.

 

I am not saying that living on child support is ideal. I would not advocate it, but SIS seems to believe in the feasability of the whole project. If not, she needs to grow up, and grasp the whole concepts of 'responsibility' and 'remorse', which she is clearly lacking. Until SIS does, you are almost wasting every effort - and these efforts would not simply be made if SIS had not been so deceitful with her MM.

 

It is great, that Catillion's family 'sacrifice' their own lives to put up with the irresponsible behavior of SIS - but Catillion is in no way forced to do the same. Occasionally baby-sitting, yes perhaps. But not because SIS decides to want to party all week long, and go to bars - there needs to be a GOOD reason. That will come as a shock to SIS, no doubt.

 

Catillion has her dreams too. College perhaps. And baby-sitting SIS's kids and going to a college 3000 miles away don't go together. I know, we are talking about life here - but that in no way gives SIS the right to ruin the lives of everyone around her. And SIS seems to take pleasure in it - as if the whole universe revolves around her, so SIS does not even see the damage she is inflicting on everyone around her.

 

Accidents can happen, of course also with sex. This was not an accident. It was clearly planned, even though SIS did not get what she wanted. That is not because MM was deceitful - but because her plan was simply idiotic. SIS admitted herself that she lied about the birth-control. What is accidental about that?

 

In short Catillion has to make a very tough decision for herself: what is more important? Her own life, and her dreams and things she wants to pursue? Or the relationship with SIS? The latter will probably always be strained, as it is very unlikely that Catillion will see SIS's behavior in the past as responsible in the future. And then we are not even mentioning the dreams Catillion might miss out on pursuing. Would not they create resentment, also?

 

Then of course, there might be backlash from the family, or support for Catillion. The only way for her to find out, is to talk to them about the issues that are now part of her life.

 

Catillion is supportive of SIS. But that does not have to last into eternity, especially if that would come with a high cost for herself.

d'arthez, that is the biggest pile of crap i have ever heard you come out with.

SIS has to raise the children on that - and given that she probably had been very selective in choosing her target-MM (it was not an accident after all), I doubt that both MM are too poor to pay, and thus are required to pay her larger sums than strictly necessary for the maintenance of the two children.

thats a huge assumption and a big accusation.

as for the rest of your post, nobody not once said that catillion has to give up her life to help her sister look after her children. if anything the suggestions were that she give her sister more emotional support and faith and LESS practical support. her sister needs to find the faith and confidence in herself to know that she can raise the children alone, not to be given practical help and made to feel that she is useless, and absolutely no trust or faith from anyone that she can do this.

what are you? a school boy?

[d'Arthez]

d'arthez, that is the biggest pile of crap i have ever heard you come out with.

Argue then, where I put the crap. It is better for the discussion.

 

thats a huge assumption and a big accusation.

"I doubt" is making a reservation - it is clear that from the onset SIS attempted to get pregant with MM. Why should that exclude the possibility that she may have been selective in choosing her MM? And, I am not saying that it is true, am I?

as for the rest of your post, nobody not once said that catillion has to give up her life to help her sister look after her children. if anything the suggestions were that she give her sister more emotional support and faith and LESS practical support.

I did not comment on any of the other posts, so I wonder where you did get the idea, that I said that everyone in this thread was wrong? .

 

I pointed out that it is hard, if not impossible to give emotional support to her sister, if she does not in the slightest agree with the decisions she made, and the implications of the decision that her sister made have on her. Well it is not rocket science to figure out, that that is exactly the case here.

 

her sister needs to find the faith and confidence in herself to know that she can raise the children alone, not to be given practical help and made to feel that she is useless, and absolutely no trust or faith from anyone that she can do this.

And how are you going to do that? By letting SIS having her tantrums, behave like a lunatic, and praise her sister's divine and unmistakenable judgement? No. No. No.

 

Her sister is not interested in behaving like an adult - I am not going to bother to quote Catillion's words endlessly to show that. And as long as SIS is not interested in behaving like an adult, taking responsibility for her children, us saying (which is a whole different thing than her attaining) that she needs faith and confidence in herself, will not help her sister one iota. She has no interest in that, so you will basically waste time and effort on her, until she would finally see the light. And I am not too optimistic about that happening.

 

what are you? a school boy?

I simply believe that at a certain age, the concept of responsibility has developed in children, in girls and boys - shocking is not it?

[newbby]

i did argue.

i said that you are making huge assumptions about her sister, which you have continued to do in your responding post. what makes you think her sister has tantrums for instance? catillion did not say this.

if her sister is continuously bombarded with attacks and judgements she will not find the strength to cope with a very difficult situation on her own.

it must be difficult enough dealing with the fact that the mm in question was happy enough to use her for somewhere to put his d***, but, when the likely outcome occured, did nothing but try to make her get rid of her child and treated her as an inconvenience.

[d'Arthez]

i did argue.

I posted quite a bit of "crap". I meant you could argue with the points in my "pile of crap", so it becomes easier to focus on the parts of the discussion, on which we would most disagree, or which are most essential.

 

it must be difficult enough dealing with the fact that the mm in question was happy enough to use her for somewhere to put his d***, but, when the likely outcome occured, did nothing but try to make her get rid of her child and treated her as an inconvenience.

Yes, it is hard to deal with - but you cannot hold MM solely responsible for that. From Catillion's words, it is not hard to discern that SIS had made plans, arrangements and everything that was needed to trap this MM. And SIS did not mind to lie about the birth-control pills either.

 

She did nothing to prevent pregnancy, while leading MM on to believe that she did. So once she was pregnant, MM could do nothing anymore. What could he do? He could pay for the abortion, which he did - but ultimately abortion is not his decision. And if she is adamant about keeping the baby, adoption is not his decision either.

But if SIS was not interested in abortion, be it for moral or for other reasons, the child was going to be born. Simple as that. And once the child is born, the child has right to child support, from the father.

 

I am not saying that MM is guiltless in the whole situation. He simply thought that SIS would be a convenient lay on the side, without ever having to worry about pregnancies, babies, child support for a child born as a result of the affair, let alone SIS's behavior around his wife.

He may simply not have expected of SIS to behave in the way as she did - and I think many MM who are involved in affairs don't expect behavior like that from OW, if the OW gets dumped.

 

Accidental pregnancies can happen everywhere, even in affairs. Condoms can fail, even birth-controll pills do on occasion. But I see little reason to believe that the pregnancy was an accident on the part of SIS; after having a child it is a lot harder to be naive about things.

 

SIS's 'plan' seems to have been to get herself an husband by having a baby with a MM. Her plan was naive (things simply don't work in that way).

I don't even think, and that is an assumption I make, that SIS was bothered when she received the money for the abortion, as it seems to have been her intention to get herself a husband by having MM's baby - and an abortion does not seem to be part of the plan then. Believe me, I am not too glad to write that.

 

They used each other. Even if MM sought for a place for his d**k, he did not bargain for the rest, and I doubt he wanted something like this to happen. Otherwise he would have not cared about the birth-control. And he was trusting enough of SIS to believe that she spoke the truth, about the birth-control. Stupid, as he realizes now.

But SIS also used MM. The extent may be hard to discern, and I may have exaggerated a bit, but I still feel the basic idea holds true.

The true victim in this situation is the baby.

 

In the end it is simply a very hard situation, for SIS as well as MM and his wife. Not to mention the kids, and the family around SIS.

 

I still don't see, how Catillion could offer emotional support to SIS, as she clearly has many issues with SIS's behavior, and eveything SIS does.

[RecordProducer]

d'Arthez, you were the first one to exclaim that BC pills are not 100% sure. There are enough means to protect both partners sexually, financially, emotionally, and legally. If this man were careful enough, he wouldn't have gotten in an affair in the first place. Secondly, he would have used a condom. But he obviously (as most men) doesn't like condoms and would rather that the woman ruins her health by taking pills than to sacrifice his sexual pleasure. Thirdly, he is willing to take financial responsibility for his deed by paying child support so why are you worried about his wallet?

 

You said the pregnancy was not an accident on her part. Why do you think it was an accident on his part? He also knew that this woman has a child with another married man! She at least takes care of her own children, unlike him who just pays money.

 

I have two sons and I plan on teaching them that sexual involvement brings certain responsibility and if they don't intend to have a child with a certain girl, they should use condoms or even not ejaculate in the girl (while using a condom), but most of all sleep with trustworthy females. I also hope to teach them not to use women as sex toys unless it's consentual and not cheat on their wives some day.

 

I don't see this man as a poor trapped little animal. I rather see him as a cheater that believes that he can do whatever he wants as long as he pays for it with money.

[d'Arthez]

Recordproducer,

 

From Catillion's first post:

 

so i know the whole story, he thought she was on birth control she lied from her own words not his

 

It seems that MM had reason to assume that pregnancy was highly unlikely to occur - SIS made MM believe she was on birthcontrol. And if you consider that method to be (close to) 100% safe, it is a bit pointless to use condoms as well. A woman can use perhaps a few methods at the same time, to not get pregnant, to make the chances intifinesmal small, same holds for a man.

 

If we assume (all else being equal, these are the only two options in this example) that pills are 99.9 % safe, and no birthcontrol 80%, of every 201 babies born, only one is the result of birth control pills failing, and the other 200 because no birth control was in place.

 

You said the pregnancy was not an accident on her part. Why do you think it was an accident on his part?

The first sentence I have explained above. You don't get accidentally pregnant if you are "willingly refusing" to take bc-pills, and lie to your partner about it. That is no accident, but indicates willingness on the part of the woman in this case.

 

MM must have assumed that she was on bc-pills, because she told him so. People who are in affairs don't automatically distrust everyone around them, and that is what must have happened to this MM. He trusted SIS to be honest about this issue.

I won't deny that he could have been less trusting of a woman who already had a child outside of marriage, but that is a mistake he made. He could have been around her, everytime SIS took her bc-pills, but then you are highly distrusting of the person you have an affair with. Trust exists in affairs too.

 

Why should any man assume that a woman who is telling she is on birth control, is not on birth control? Should women never be believed? Or when should women be believed then? When you have verified every statement with a lie detector? Oh no, these are only 90% accurate.

 

I am not worried about his wallet. I am worried about the kids, and the highly irresponsible behavior of their mum. And yes, their mom takes the blame for the most part in the whole situation, in my view.

[newbby]

d'arthez, this sister may have indeed made mistakes, never said she didnt. rather than the calculating games you are accusing her of, i think it more likely that having found herself trapped in a household with a family that help her but judge her, because of having the first baby, her relationship with this mm, was more a desperate attempt at escape into the arms of someone who she probably saw as a responsible father.

it might not have been well thought out or completely concious behaviour, but, sometimes people do act in desperation, and when they do, their choices are not usually wise ones.

so she made a mistake, nobody said she didnt, now that the mistake has been made should she be judged and have to beg forgiveness for ever, for making a futile attempt at escape and a desperate jump for happiness????

[d'Arthez]

d'arthez, this sister may have indeed made mistakes, never said she didnt. rather than the calculating games you are accusing her of, i think it more likely that having found herself trapped in a household with a family that help her but judge her, because of having the first baby,

 

Could definitely have contributed to her acts and feelings. No doubt about that. But that in itself does not explain why SIS is acting in such a hostile way. And given the fact that she has one child, and it caused a lot of inconvenience for her (if her family judges her constantly), she should be aware that a child does not solve any issues of its parents - rather the issues become magnified. Add another baby to the household, and everything becomes much more complex, and not suddenly all rosy. It would be pretty naive to expect otherwise.

 

And as she already had a kid before with the father out of the picture, how naive would you be to expect MM to leave everything behind for the 6 pounds of joy, as the expectations in the past were so completely disappointed?

 

her relationship with this mm, was more a desperate attempt at escape into the arms of someone who she probably saw as a responsible father.

But then, it makes no sense to have a child with a MM against his wishes - something which is safe to assume, I think. Unless of course she is blind to the wishes of MM himself. That would have serious implications for SIS.

 

And I cannot see where the simple idea of starting a household with a single guy would fail.

 

How desperate can you get? To trap MM by lying about the bc-pills is a big thing. To get a baby with him, as to force him to form a family (mind you, the legal impossibility of that was apparently not even considered, nor the fact that any single guy could qualify) with her, shows heavily distorted thinking if she truly believes that is what would happen.

 

it might not have been well thought out or completely concious behaviour, but, sometimes people do act in desperation, and when they do, their choices are not usually wise ones.

The thing is, that there must have been a whole series of actions, before the baby arrives, or is even conceived. There must have been a plan. Perhaps a desperate plan, but a plan nonetheless.

 

We do not know the MM nor anything about his marriage. But I doubt this man was chosen randomly. It might have been a single guy as well for instance, without the hassle of a wife, et cetera.

 

so she made a mistake, nobody said she didnt, now that the mistake has been made should she be judged and have to beg forgiveness for ever, for making a futile attempt at escape and a desperate jump for happiness????

No - but it also does not mean, that Catillion should be happy with the situation, accept the situation, as if everything was alright, and that she should not be allowed to think that SIS behaved in a stupid fashion. Which is what Catillion is thinking, and honestly I would believe the same thing.

 

One child with a MM can happen, but the second child can hardly be described as purely accidental, especially given her behavior.

And in all honesty, I don't see much that points to responsible behavior on the mother's part.

 

it's what she's doing now waiting for his W to leave the house trying to get me to walk with her and the baby down the street so she could see it.

 

She's not thinking of the child, only herself, that's why I'm harsh towards her

Being unhappy with a sister's behavior is one thing, but to be supportive of her, as she is neglecting her own child is another thing, and injuring the W in the process as much as she can, is practically impossible .

 

The relationship of Catillion with SIS will never be the same again, no matter what happens. And frankly I would not blame Catillion for that.

[newbby]

she is not neglecting her child, she is bitter and angry, and not seeing clearly. she sees the wife as somebody that got everything that she wanted and she is trying to punish her for that.

it may not be rational behaviour, but, she is obviously deeply unhappy and very desperate. as for the single guy thing, alot of single mothers are wary about getting involved with a guy who they just do not know will be a good father. i suspect that this mm appealed to her on that level.

it was an act of desperation, clearly so. she needs help to accept the situation did not go as she wanted it to and she needs help to feel happy and realise that she can be independent.

catillion judges her sister extremely harshly in my opinion. your own posts lack compassion and awareness.