kendahke Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, sk1977 said: I don't know if it makes any difference, but he's been sober for 8 months. At least that is what he says. Would it make a difference if he never touched drugs again? Makes absolutely no difference at all in the face of theft. He hasn't been sober long enough to not have drugs and the shiny new ATM (you) enticing him to backslide, seeing that you're so easy to forgive and rationalize in order to not be alone. He thought you were making a big deal that he stole money from you--doesn't matter that he paid it back. The courts don't care if a bank robber can pay back the money they stole--it's the principle of the matter. If he starts using again, that's his problem, not yours---he's a grown effin' man; and it's an indicator for why it was smart of you to get him out of your life. 2
ExpatInItaly Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 9 hours ago, S2B said: And the way he handles his money - it makes me doubt that he’s sober at all. I was about to say exactly the same thing. The excuse he gave for stealing didn't ring true for me, in his case. I have wondered from the get-go if he needed money for some other reason. Drugs or owing money for drugs from a past purchase would sure make a lot of sense. Get rid of this guy, OP. Too many red flags and you have kids to think about and protect. Don't introduce this sort of person into their lives. 1
Art_Critic Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 16 hours ago, sk1977 said: I don't know if it makes any difference, but he's been sober for 8 months. At least that is what he says. Would it make a difference if he never touched drugs again? He isn't yours to save.. BTW, not sure if being codependent is part of your being but with all that has happened with the stolen money and now this if you don't make a clean break then you are showing some codependency and you might want to figure out why you feel you need to save him. 1
JTSW Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 sk1977, yes everyone here has been screaming for you to break up with him. But what is your gut/heart telling you to do? Do you want to break up with him? Or do you want to give him the benefit of the doubt? Yes, he took money from you once without permission. Big violation. His addiction might/might not be problematic. What do you want to do?
balletomane Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) No one here can tell you what to do, but we can point to some facts. Being only eight months sober is a warning sign. It takes a long time to build up resilience and healthy coping strategies and a person who is so fresh out of addiction isn't ready to date. The way he just wants you to drop the stealing issue suggests he's the kind of person to brush the past under the carpet, not deal with it and learn from it. Former addicts who have been in recovery for a while will probably be the first to tell you that this is not a good sign. The fact he spent a few thousand on you when you've only been together for four months is another red flag. That suggests rash impulsive behaviour, and impulsiveness and addiction often go hand in hand. I'm surprised you were comfortable accepting so much from someone who is so new to your life. You're normalising potentially risky behaviour here. Edited February 19, 2020 by balletomane 1
elaine567 Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 On 2/6/2020 at 4:57 PM, sk1977 said: I should also mention that he's always been treating me well and been very generous spending his money on me and my kids. He probably spent a few thousand on me over the four month we've been together and gifted me some money when I was in a tough spot financially. He's been really sweet, loving, thoughtful, helping me with chores when he comes over. I'm very much in love with him ^^^ this This is why women end up in trouble. This "wonderful" kind loving helpful man who gives me money... He is the best... She excuses all his accumulating bad points as the picture he painted at the start was so very good. This, she is convinced was the "real" him, the one she wants, the one she falls in love with... BUT that image was not real, it was an illusion designed to reel her in. She may be slightly unsettled by his mounting bad points, however she is often willing to wait for that "wonderful" man to make a reappearance... He rarely does... 1
ChatroomHero Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, sk1977 said: I don't know if it makes any difference, but he's been sober for 8 months. At least that is what he says. Would it make a difference if he never touched drugs again? Nope. I think the average for rehab is like 13 times. 8 months is nothing. People will go 5 years without using, be out on a family vacation with you and go to the store to get ice cream for everyone and boom, they go out and use again. Here's what is so messed up about it, they are perfect at getting sympathy and convincing people. It's hard to explain until you're in it but you can walk in on them taking $200 from your wallet and within 10 minutes they somehow have you believing they were not taking money from you but somehow doing something good for you. You'll find yourself an hour later going, "Wait a minute, that doesn't add up!". They are master at manipulation and getting sympathy because it is a long con. On Monday March 1st they will tell you some long winded story about a homeless guy they came across outside a 7-11. The story will be seemingly meaningless. What happens is on April 16th when you realize they did something awful back in March, they'll say remember that homeless guy story I told you? That's when I felt so bad for the homeless guy that I gave him money, remember I already told you about it so you know I am honest?! I felt bad because I was homeless once before. It was only $20...if that doesn't happen they use it for a future excuse. When you catch them taking money on April 16th they say...remember that homeless guy? He was back yesterday so I was going to buy him McDonald's with your money. See, I am being open and honest about it! You say, show me the McDonald's receipt...they threw it out. You ask what they bought, they say a burger. You ask where the other $12 went, they say remember, he was outside 7-11, I bought a pop and a bag of chips for myself. They will admit to only what you know. I found if you feel like arguing for about an hour and a half you'll generally get about 50-60% of the truth. They are counting on you not wanting to confront and argue every day for 2 hours. It's not that they are great or smart in their excuses, it;s that you trust most other people because "why would anyone commit to that level of story and set up?" so you give them the benefit of the doubt. In my experience, anyone that says they are sober for 8 months probably used that morning. The interesting thing I found was when they seem normal, not too high or too low, that is when they are actually using. If they are too high, it's obvious. If they are too low, they are going through withdrawal and will use first chance they get. So when you think they are doing well, more than likely it is because they are using and able to get exactly what they need. Easy way to prove this. Tell them you want to hang out with them for 2 days straight. They don't leave your sight. Guaranteed a couple of hours in they will absolutely HAVE to go somewhere and do everything to keep you from coming. They will fight hard to get time where you stay in a car or for whatever reason they need to be alone. Oh and check your cabinets and drawers. Once I threw my load out of the house I found needles and foil in silverware drawers, dresser drawers and bathroom drawers for almost 2 years...and I look everywhere multiple times and still find needles turn up, it's crazy. You'll also find your spoon drawer missing spoons a lot...and make note of every time they mention a diabetic friend or relative. That is strictly their cover story for when you find needles and needle caps around the house or in your car..."Oh, Amy was in the car last week. That's her needle or needle cap for insulin." Bits of folded up foil will be everywhere too. Still sound like something you want to deal with every day? Because eventually you will be $50K in debt and no money for rent or food and in danger of losing everything you own. At least you'll be able to get there via informed decision now. Edited February 19, 2020 by ChatroomHero 3 2
ChatroomHero Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 I'll add this- every time you "help" them you are actually helping them use. It's really impossible to be in a relationship where you try to do a good thing and it turns out to be the worst thing you could have done. Their work is going well, their car breaks down and you pay to fix it because they are doing so good, they need that job, they need to work so they don't spiral out of control. The problem is you pay to fix their car and the money they save goes towards using. They see a watch they love. You buy it as a birthday gift. They gush how much they love it. Two months later it's gone, sold for drugs. The excuses you get are they lost it, it got stolen, they left it at the gym, whatever. They place zero value on their own possessions no matter how sentimental and important they say they are. They'll leave them behind or sell them. They have even less respect for your possessions. So you would be in a relationship where you can give nothing and always suspect when they have $20 it will be used to buy drugs at some point. Living day to day waiting for the other shoe to drop...and it will...is a terrible way to live. 5
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: ^^^ this This is why women end up in trouble. This "wonderful" kind loving helpful man who gives me money... He is the best... She excuses all his accumulating bad points as the picture he painted at the start was so very good. This, she is convinced was the "real" him, the one she wants, the one she falls in love with... BUT that image was not real, it was an illusion designed to reel her in. She may be slightly unsettled by his mounting bad points, however she is often willing to wait for that "wonderful" man to make a reappearance... He rarely does... The money wasn't the reason I fell in love with him. He's just been really sweet, romantic, kind and thoughtful and treated me really well, and made me feel special. From what I gathered from talking to a few people who know him, that is the real him, when he is sober. When he is not, that is completely different story. The question is do I really want to stay in the relationship and find out one day what that other version of him is?
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 8 hours ago, S2B said: what does he actively do to support his sobriety? Meetings? Step work? Working with a sponsor and sponsoring others needing help? He does attend meetings and has a sponsor. He is also sponsoring others. He lives in the apartment with other people in recovery and he says they test them three times a week and he has to be clean to stay there.
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Art_Critic said: He isn't yours to save.. BTW, not sure if being codependent is part of your being but with all that has happened with the stolen money and now this if you don't make a clean break then you are showing some codependency and you might want to figure out why you feel you need to save him. I know for sure that i can't save him and I'm not trying to. I know only he can save himself.
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 3 hours ago, JTSW said: sk1977, yes everyone here has been screaming for you to break up with him. But what is your gut/heart telling you to do? Do you want to break up with him? Or do you want to give him the benefit of the doubt? Yes, he took money from you once without permission. Big violation. His addiction might/might not be problematic. What do you want to do? That's a great question. I don't know the answer at this point. I think I'm in a bit of a shock right now. That, combines with sadness I feel makes is hard to see clearly and make a decision. I think my gut is telling me to break it off, but I'm afraid of the pain that will come with it. I suppose dealing with the painful breakup would be better than dealing with life-long pain that this relationship might cause.
Gaeta Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 I am bothered by you not naming your children in all your worries. 2 1
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gaeta said: I am bothered by you not naming your children in all your worries. My kids are 16, 18, 26 years old. 26 year old is living on his own. The other two are playing sports and straight A students. 18 year old is starting college next year. I am concerned about how me staying in this relationship might affect them if he relapses. On the other hand, I feel that they got solid foundation in the way they were brought up, and I just don't see them suddenly starting to use drugs because my boyfriend is a former user. Maybe I'm in denial. Maybe I just don't see the full picture right now and that is why I'm here.
Gaeta Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, sk1977 said: My kids are 16, 18, Here is the risk, their minds are still very much malleable. If your boyfriend is someone they view as cool then yes he can have an influence on them. He may send the message that using drugs is ok and not a big deal and all this slowly behind your back little bit at a time. I have the guardianship of a 15 year old girl, who's mom new bf convinced the teen in 18 months that it was ok for grown men to touch teen girls. How he did that? very slowly by being nice, funny and cool, little by little. 1 1
Gaeta Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, sk1977 said: I am concerned about how me staying in this relationship might affect them if he relapses. If he relapses your life will be a living hell, he will steal from you (he does already), tell you lies, he'll disappear, and he will put your life in danger by having sex with you while using dirty needles. What message that will send your 2 teens about relationships? What will that teach them about their mother? 2 2
ExpatInItaly Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 3 hours ago, sk1977 said: From what I gathered from talking to a few people who know him, that is the real him, when he is sober. When he is not, that is completely different story. The question is do I really want to stay in the relationship and find out one day what that other version of him is? You're already finding out. He stole from you. If that is so out of character for clean and sober him - what exactly does that tell you about his current sobriety status? 1
kendahke Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 OP, we get it that you like him and see him as your last chance for romance and happiness... however, you need to step waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay the heck back and take a much longer view of things than you have. It's really easy to dig in and double/triple down on believing that at your age, you deserve some happiness--and you do---but you've seen what this man is capable of doing when he was supposedly sober and clean. Less than a year ago (and probably even now, since you're really not checking for those kinds of signs), he was drugging it up on the regular. How many of your close friends/family know he's stolen money from you and is only 8 months sober from an opioid habit? Old habits die hard and being only 8 months clean is him being highly susceptible to backsliding. You don't want him backsliding around you and the teenagers who are still at home with you. There is too much that can go horribly wrong by insisting upon having your way here. Your teenagers are well adjusted and that's a really good thing. However, it only takes him bringing one of his druggie friends to your house while you're at work (and your teenager is home alone because they're not feeling well) to do drugs; he's blotto out of his mind and the friend gets the bright idea to wander into their bedroom and attack them while on his way to the bathroom to alter that forever. Can you live with yourself after that knowing we here spent 9 pages of posts pleading with you to drop him off and keep going? Remember: pride goes before destruction. We're really trying to get you to see that this isn't going to end the way you think it will--he's already given you unmistakable glimpses into what to expect out of him in the future. Yes, we can see it clearly because our hearts aren't struggling and fighting for the steering wheel. You can't--that's why you're here asking us. Ignore those glimpses at your own peril. 2
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, kendahke said: OP, we get it that you like him and see him as your last chance for romance and happiness... however, you need to step waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay the heck back and take a much longer view of things than you have. It's really easy to dig in and double/triple down on believing that at your age, you deserve some happiness--and you do---but you've seen what this man is capable of doing when he was supposedly sober and clean. Less than a year ago (and probably even now, since you're really not checking for those kinds of signs), he was drugging it up on the regular. How many of your close friends/family know he's stolen money from you and is only 8 months sober from an opioid habit? Old habits die hard and being only 8 months clean is him being highly susceptible to backsliding. You don't want him backsliding around you and the teenagers who are still at home with you. There is too much that can go horribly wrong by insisting upon having your way here. Your teenagers are well adjusted and that's a really good thing. However, it only takes him bringing one of his druggie friends to your house while you're at work (and your teenager is home alone because they're not feeling well) to do drugs; he's blotto out of his mind and the friend gets the bright idea to wander into their bedroom and attack them while on his way to the bathroom to alter that forever. Can you live with yourself after that knowing we here spent 9 pages of posts pleading with you to drop him off and keep going? Remember: pride goes before destruction. We're really trying to get you to see that this isn't going to end the way you think it will--he's already given you unmistakable glimpses into what to expect out of him in the future. Yes, we can see it clearly because our hearts aren't struggling and fighting for the steering wheel. You can't--that's why you're here asking us. Ignore those glimpses at your own peril. Thank you! I truly appreciate your point of view.
kendahke Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, sk1977 said: Thank you! I truly appreciate your point of view. How many of your close friends/family know he's stolen money from you and is only 8 months sober from an opioid habit?
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, kendahke said: How many of your close friends/family know he's stolen money from you and is only 8 months sober from an opioid habit? 2. I am talking to another one of my friends tonight. My family doesn't know. Edited February 19, 2020 by sk1977
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, S2B said: I’m wondering what you expect to accomplish by talking to your friend tonight? why haven’t you told your family what he’s been doing to you? My family lives in another country and I didn't want to tell them, so they are not worried about me. They would feel helpless being so far away.
elaine567 Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, sk1977 said: My family lives in another country and I didn't want to tell them, so they are not worried about me. Oh dear. Ever considered he may have targeted you? A soft touch far from home... 1
LivingWaterPlease Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) On 2/7/2020 at 11:46 AM, sk1977 said: Guys, I know it was a bad idea to give him my PIN. I get it.... Aside from the money issue, I'm dealing with the possibility of this relationship being over and it really hurts. Yes, it's only been 4 months, but I've never in my life met anyone like him before. I'm 43 and been through two divorces and one long term relationship, and I have never met a more thoughtful, caring guy, and I'm not talking about the gifts here! Now, I don't know if what I saw was only what he chose to show me, and maybe it was all a lie, but I don't know and nobody else knows that for sure. And yes, I'm not supposed to be feeling what I'm feeling for him after only being with him for 4 months, but I am in love with this guy. And this situation is really hard to deal with as it is, so if you could please hold the judgment, and just stick with support and only constructive criticism, if appropriate, I would appreciate it. Thank you! sk1977, I was married to such a man at one time. My advice to you is, "Run." What your bf did is not a one-off. He has boundary and honesty issues, both, that will present in various ways over the years. It begins small and grows. Edited February 19, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease Shortened. 1
Author sk1977 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said: sk1977, I've read only through page 5 but I believe I have some advice for you that's unique to this thread. My ex was a man who helped himself to money my parents gave me, and even to his six-year-old child's bank account (cleaned it out). He had boundary issues and money management issues, although he made plenty of money, though not wealthy. While he was with me he gave money to people who needed it, I believe to impress others. Because after he left me and our children with nothing at all saying he was broke, I would hear of someone he'd done something expensive for, such as a widow who he put a new roof on her house. Eventually (after leaving me) he was involved in a large scheme to use the money of an international company for his own financial gain, intending to just use the money and return it to the company. Something happened and the money was lost. The company president was also involved and had to resign or be fired. He always lived on the edge financially due to poor money management issues and poor boundaries. And if you became acquainted with him you'd never dream he was a person who could be involved in the mess he got into with the international company. Charges were filed against him but he got out of it some way. He seemed to be a charming, kind, and thoughtful man. But, he was/is a thief. So is your bf. I would run far from this guy. You may love him, I loved my ex, but he's bad news BECAUSE he stole from you, bottom line. He's dishonest no matter how he tries to spin it. If you'd have told me when I was dating my ex he was capable of the things he did I wouldn't have believed you. I believe to this day there are people who have no idea of the things he's done and would be shocked if they knew bc he doesn't seem like the type. Many people steal who don't seem like the type but you know how you can tell right off they're the type? Once they steal from you the first time. Your bf has done this. He is the type. Thank you for sharing your story! I appreciate it.
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