Kitty Tantrum Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 If you've really met and spent time with his family, etc. that does make me think that maybe he's less of a "conman" and more of a... clueless entitled twit? His whole FAMILY probably has problems with financial management, AND relationship boundaries, AND financial boundaries in relationships. That's sort of the best-case scenario here... My ex-husband's family was like that. I was 7 months pregnant, working full time and paying all the bills, trying to save some cash for baby things before leaving my job... he was unemployed (and not even receiving unemployment benefits). He'd borrow money here and there from his parents without telling me about it for frivolous expenses... and then they'd call him up and be like "we need gas money" (they were loose with their money so this happened a lot ) and he would just unquestioningly pull $50-100 from the bank account to give to them. Basically at the very beginning of our relationship, he made himself out to be a lot more financially on-the-ball than he was... by borrowing money from his parents, and not telling me it was borrowed money. I didn't even know until AFTER WE SPLIT UP that his mother had paid the deposit on our first apartment that we moved into on the day we got married. I can't think of a single way to spin this scenario that makes it anything but a huge red flag that deserves immediate dumping. 5
JS84 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Quote It feels so out of character for him. I'm totally confused and floored by his behavior. Have you known him much longer than the 4 months you've been dating? Because if not you don't know anything about his character. Taking money without permission is a pretty big red flag. Who the hell "borrows" $100 of their partners money without asking after 4 months of dating??? Quote I know I will probably get some heat from some people about giving him my pin, but he ran a few errands for me and bought a few things for me with my card, and I thought I could trust him, even though maybe it was too early to do so. You giving him your pin number after such a short time of dating was also not very smart. I hope you at least changed it to something else. I'm sorry but you sound like wet dream for grifter boyfriends and con men.
FMW Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 I'm sorry you're hurting over the thought of losing him. But please do think seriously about this situation - you have overwhelming agreement on this thread that what he did was wrong. However, not only will he not admit it, but now he's making you think you may lose him because you wouldn't just accept it and move on without addressing it. Do you want the rest of your life to be this way, having to just put up and shut up no matter how he upsets you just so you can hold on to him? 6 1
Author sk1977 Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, FMW said: I'm sorry you're hurting over the thought of losing him. But please do think seriously about this situation - you have overwhelming agreement on this thread that what he did was wrong. However, not only will he not admit it, but now he's making you think you may lose him because you wouldn't just accept it and move on without addressing it. Do you want the rest of your life to be this way, having to just put up and shut up no matter how he upsets you just so you can hold on to him? You are absolutely right! Thank you! I know it in my mind, but my heart is breaking nevertheless. 1 2
NuevoYorko Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 21 hours ago, Ambereyes said: 3. I'm no expert in con men but I thought they'd go for woman who has money. But OP is not? Doesn't sound like a con man to me. More like an immature, entitled man with a low paying job who's overextended all of his credit cards and generally f***ed up. Not boyfriend material at all, especially for a mother of young children. 2
kendahke Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, sk1977 said: When I asked him if he would get mad if I took money from his bank account without asking, he hesitated for a bit and said, "probably not". He's lying. That hesitation was him weighing the truth and strangling it before he lied and said "probably not". His hair would be on fire--you know it, I know it, we all here know it, especially if he found out the way you found out. The fact that he won't face should tell you everything you need to know. It's too bad you didn't ask him how long it was going to be before he got around to telling you he took stole that money, especially when he knows you told him that finances were tight. And if he offered you money after you took money and you looked him straight in his face and kept your mouth shut, would it be fair of you to tell him that you can't empathize with his anger at you for taking stealing it. You dodged a serious bullet with this clown---he's let you know what the "real him" is about: a rapacious git. 1
kendahke Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, sk1977 said: I came here to ask for advice whether or not to try to continue the relationship. The answer is a resounding "NO"--not if you don't want to further volunteer yourself for debasement. What is there to try for? What kind of life with a liar and thief would you have? It'll age you before your time. You can never trust that anything that comes out of his mouth is the truth. If he gets over on you with this, now that that charge has worn off, he will go further/harder/stronger for the charge the next time and then the time after and the time after and the time after that until you, having been drained of treasury and youth, are crushed under foot as he walks over you to the next unwitting gal. If you love yourself, block him tonight and consider any money he stole from you an expensive lesson in human nature. Quote I'm 43 and been through two divorces and one long term relationship, and I have never met a more thoughtful, caring guy, and I'm not talking about the gifts here! Google the ways young girls are groomed by pimps. This is exactly what they do. This guy was grooming you to lower your defenses so he could take your money behind your back. See, I could see your point IF he told you upfront that's what he did when he came back from the store. That would have made a universe of difference between what you want to believe about him and how his actions fell out in experience at your feet. But you had to bring it to him days later when your statement came and then he basically told you that you were wrong for being upset. Who even does that? Quote Now, I don't know if what I saw was only what he chose to show me, and maybe it was all a lie, but I don't know and nobody else knows that for sure. You only know as much about a person as they let you know about themselves. And yes, it was a lie--see the above for the weight on the scale for that. Human nature never changes. Edited February 7, 2020 by kendahke 2
Kitty Tantrum Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, enigma32 said: As to the BF paying OP back, why should he? Even if she is down the $100 or so, she is ahead a couple thousand. Uhhhhh... because the money HE spent was freely given as a GIFT. You don't get to "collect" on gifts as though they were debts just because you're irresponsible and "need" the money. I can't believe anyone would think that's okay. Even when collecting on a legitimate debt, you don't get to simply TAKE another person's money away from them without them knowing. There's a legal process for that. If you don't follow that process, you have not collected on a debt, you have committed a crime. 5
kendahke Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, enigma32 said: if someone had just given me a couple thousand bucks not long ago, but they then borrowed or took $100, I would probably let it go. Even if you've told them already that your finances were really tight? It'd be different if she hadn't said that to him, but she did and he went and did it and lied about it anyway. 1
Kitty Tantrum Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, enigma32 said: I agree with you Kitty, technically speaking. It's just that if someone had just given me a couple thousand bucks not long ago, but they then borrowed or took $100, I would probably let it go. I mean, why get all upset over $100 bucks when you are ahead by a couple thousand? I can see breaking things off with the guy because of what he did, but demanding the $100 bucks back while enjoying his thousands in gifts just seems a bit too petty for me. If I was feeling that petty, I would also return his gifts out of fairness. It seems he could use the money anyway. It's NOT being "ahead" by a couple thousand if he spent $$$$ on non-necessities which can't be quickly liquidated, and then took $100 liquid cash while she was strapped for making ends meet. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Kitty Tantrum said: Uhhhhh... because the money HE spent was freely given as a GIFT. This is correct. One was stolen, the others were gifts, freely given. Regardless of how you feel about the $100 or thousands spent on the OP, the bigger issue at this point is his lack of boundaries. Others have mentioned this. It could very well be that this guy turns into one of those people who feels entitled when he feels that he has given his share to the relationship and then expects something back as a mere "payment" of services as opposed to no-strings-attached acts of kindness, affection. Edited February 7, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020 2
Kitty Tantrum Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 I actually had this happen with my EX-in-laws. They gave us the "gift" of about $150 worth of "food storage" (#10 cans of dried beans and stuff... emergency stores). We didn't ask for that. It wasn't stuff we could easily work into our regular diets. It was something they thought we should have, or wanted us to have, or whatever. Then not three weeks later, ex-MIL decided that we needed to "pay her back" in cash, because they'd blown through their money. As for $100 not being a lot of money - maybe not for YOU. For a single or divorced mother of multiple children on a tight budget, it absolutely is, or at least can be. OFTEN is. That's make-or-break-it kinda money for me, for most of my life. And expensive gifts cannot necessarily be sold for enough money or quickly enough to pull together a rent or utility payment on time. Speaking from experience down here at the bottom of the economic ladder. 5
kendahke Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) The difference between an idiot and a con man is that the idiot most likely would do some mea culpas, feel some remorse and shame for what they did and would be doing everything in their power to correct the situation. The con man's entitled attitude to do what he wanted to do eclipses the empathy for the person he's wronged and try to turn himself into the victim who's being persecuted by the person he stole from. It's this guy's attitude after the fact that takes him out of the idiot category. As for recouping gift money--depreciation is a factor in that. Try to pawn an expensive piece of jewelry--you won't get what you initially paid for it. That goes for most anything. Edited February 7, 2020 by kendahke 1
basil67 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, enigma32 said: Yeah, I would still let it go. If things were that bad, I would sell some of those gifts to recoup the $100. Shouldn't be hard if the gifts were valued at a couple thousand. I absolutely think dude was in the wrong here, but he DID have her PIN. Why? I think he's just an idiot. Break up with him, sure, but I would consider the $100 a loss. It's not exactly a lot of money. I get where you're coming from. It was like dividing assets when I split up with ex-h. It really wasn't worth quibbling over a few thousand here and there. I found just letting it go far easier than fighting over it. 2
Gr8fuln2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, enigma32 said: Yeah, I would still let it go. If things were that bad, I would sell some of those gifts to recoup the $100. Shouldn't be hard if the gifts were valued at a couple thousand. I absolutely think dude was in the wrong here, but he DID have her PIN. Why? I think he's just an idiot. Break up with him, sure, but I would consider the $100 a loss. It's not exactly a lot of money. Okay. I would concur. More trouble than anything else to pursue this money. For people, many people, who literally keep track of every dollar, $100 can be a lot. A decent cart of food. Utilities. Anyhoo...probably best to take this loss and more on. 1
Kitty Tantrum Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 "Letting it go" is easy when you've got a financial buffer. I've let all sorts of things go when I had the luxury of throwing away money for the sake of not having to deal with people. But the fact that it's EASIER to "let it go" if you've had something of yours taken from you than it is to fight to get it back is no justification for the taking! And it doesn't make it LESS of a hardship just because you can compare it to something harder. I can't imagine someone who is or has been legitimately down at the bottom with me saying that $100 isn't a lot of money. 2
elaine567 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 He does not owe her $100, he owes her $200. He stole the $100 and then he pocketed the $100 loan too that she gave him... @enigma32 Could your buddy be bipolar? During manic episodes sufferers often spend spend spend... Once stable again they then try to recoup the money they spent when ill... 1 2
Ambereyes Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 op took advantage of thousands of this guy and she should totally let go of this 100 of her and end the relationship. i would in fact pay him back and end it. Cuz I’m an independent woman with dignity . But it was just me
BaileyB Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 OP, if it’s any consolation there are very few discussions on this site with such unanimous consensus. I’m sorry you are disappointed, but I think you know what you have to do...
Art_Critic Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 8 hours ago, sk1977 said: We talked on the phone last night and he said he was frustrated with the situation and the fact that I can't just move on and continue like it never happened. He said once again that when he did it, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, that his intentions weren't not to do something malicious. When I asked him if he would get mad if I took money from his bank account without asking, he hesitated for a bit and said, "probably not". He did apologize over text initially when I confronted him, but he never said it on the phone when we talked later. That combined with him saying he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, it's hard to take his "apology" seriously. We were supposed to go out this Friday night with friends, but now he cancelled it. I texted him this morning to see if he wanted to get together to talk about everything, but I haven't heard back. I don't know if I will. This took a different turn than I felt like it was going to after I read your replies... I'm sorry.. **Hugz** I do think you have your head screwed on correctly over this, if he wants to talk.. then talk.. stay guarded and go from there..
preraph Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 If you talk don't let him con you and somehow make this your fault. You didn't steal money from him. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 sk1977. I haven't read all of the posts, but you let him know how this has concerned you. He knows. If he continues or continued to deny he did anything wrong, that is a game stopper for me. If he has made some concessions, YOU need to decide whether you would like this relationship to continue and it seems you do. He certainly likes you and the kids, or his extravagance seems to indicate as much. Give him some time stew over this and if he really wants back in he will find a way. Also, DO NOT SUCCUMB and tell him it was okay or you were wrong. I almost sounds like his notion of moving on or forward from this is you admitting it was not an issue. What comes next really depends on him. His pride, ego is hurt. A mature person will accept that this and move forward, but don't harp on the issue IF YOU WANT TO BE WITH HIM.
elaine567 Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 A mature person would never have stolen the money out of a person's personal account in the first place. 3 1
preraph Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 A mature person never would have shared her pin with a new boyfriend or any boyfriend. This is a live-and-learn situation. Protect your finances!! No one gets to share them! No one is trustworthy. If he steals and you report him, he can just say it was a gift and who's to say otherwise. You have to be smart or you'll end up with people taking advantage of you your whole life. 4
Gr8fuln2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, preraph said: A mature person never would have shared her pin with a new boyfriend or any boyfriend. This is a live-and-learn situation. Protect your finances!! No one gets to share them! No one is trustworthy. If he steals and you report him, he can just say it was a gift and who's to say otherwise. You have to be smart or you'll end up with people taking advantage of you your whole life. You sound like someone who has been there. I may have missed a post indicating as much. ABSOLUTELY. Protect your finances! Even the love of your life can be tempted by the root of all evil (not necessarily joking). I was married to two ladies who had financial issues that I found out about later, too late, into the marriage. Neither did irreparable harm, but it was a little bothersome at the time and stunted my efforts to getting to a comfortable point in terms of saving for retirement and my kids' futures. I will not put myself in that position again. Edited February 8, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020 2
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