My boyfriend 'borrowed' money from my account without asking.

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, Ellener said:

 It's not illegal OR theft if you give someone your card and pin number and they use it. 

 

With that persons permission. The OP has clearly stated that she was not aware and he did not have her permission to take money from the account.

There is no “grey” here - what he did was completely unacceptable, he broke her trust and lied to her about it, and it is most definitely theft.

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, Art_Critic said:

BTW, there is more to come, someone who does this has more in store 

Exactly. This was a trial run...

[SabreTeeth]

31 minutes ago, Ellener said:

No over-reaction, yet we have moved from mistakenly 'borrowing' $100 to murder and rape? 

 It's not an overreaction. It's called common sense; something rather lacking in today's world. 

It's the responsibility of parents to look after their children. Once a child reaches a certain age then they can be exposed to whatever. When you get right down to it the op didn't know this guy's character from a hole in the ground. 

24 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I worked with children and families for a short while ( 2.5 years ) as a social worker, then in a wider context for the Probation Service. I did risk assessment for a long time. The risk here is the guy will financially de-rail the family over time if this is a pattern and not just getting carried away with being in a family environment at their first Christmas together.

And yes, that financial de-railment would put children at risk. Of homelessness, poor school achievement, in the US lack of access to healthcare maybe.

Yes, 2.5 years as a social worker is rather short. Take it from someone whose uncle was one for 29 years working with high risk families the entire time (or whose father has a PhD in psychology & did risk assessment among all facets of the probation system - from youths to serial killers - for 23 years). 

As for risk assessment you seriously can't tell that this guy is a con artist. You say he is being generous. He's not. As mentioned buying a dress is being generous. His behavior, as others mentioned, is bizarre. Outrageous. Mind boggling. Alarming even. It is extremely rare for any joe schmuck - forget people who are rich - to spend thousands so early in a relationship. And such behavior has been recounted with so many con artists stories it's not even close to funny. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by SabreTeeth

[introverted1]

OP, what your bf did was wrong, but I think you should consider your part in all this, as the only actions you can control are your own.  You've allowed this man to interact with your children, you've taken "thousands" of dollars from him, you've introduced him to your family, you've envisioned a life with him, you gave him your debit card and its PIN...  and now you are shocked that he withdrew money without your knowledge.  Yes, it was wrong, but your actions have helped to blur appropriate boundaries.  If you had rejected OTT gifts and kept finances/children separate all along (which would be normal for such a new relationship), none of this would have transpired.

Edited February 7, 2020 by introverted1

[Ellener]

I respectfully don't agree, and bow out. If you have knowledge and expertise in these areas then have at it; but keep it supportive and encouraging to the person who posted is what I would want to do, and we're getting away from that.

4 minutes ago, SabreTeeth said:

Take it from someone whose uncle was one 

Yes, but that's not your uncle writing and it's not you who did social work is it.

5 minutes ago, SabreTeeth said:

As for risk assessment you seriously can't tell that this guy is a con artist. You say he is being generous. He's not. As mentioned buying a dress is being generous. His behavior, as others mentioned, is bizarre. Outrageous. Mind boggling. Alarming even. It is extremely rare for any joe schmuck - forget people who are rich - to spend thousands so early in a relationship. And such behavior has been recounted with so many con artists stories it's not even close to funny. 

 

I actually think in America his behaviour is 100% typical. 

People equate money with love, with power, with achievement here. People go into debt for frivolities by other nation standards.

( And yes, we saw yesterday politically, that's deemed okay if you're rich and powerful enough, people don't question or expect answers half enough )

But that's nothing to do with the original poster and her timid asking of advice about a stray $100 and the realisation her new partner can't handle money.

They may go on to have a great relationship later, who knows, but she will have to take over that side of things to do so.

'Here endeth the lesson'.

 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

No over-reaction, yet we have moved from mistakenly 'borrowing' $100 to murder and rape? 

She gave him her card with nip to go purchase something specific. She did not allow him to use his card as he wished. She certainly did not allow him in her account through her card, to view her balance and her credit available. He stole from her, period. 

[Gaeta]

Now, you don't need to be rich to be defrauded by a con artist. I have an acquaintance that does secretary work, not a big paycheck, she is a single mother of 2. Well she got defrauded by a man with same MO as OP's boyfriend. He topped her credit cards to 15K then he left, probably searching for his next victim. 

[Gr8fuln2020]

11 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Now, you don't need to be rich to be defrauded by a con artist. I have an acquaintance that does secretary work, not a big paycheck, she is a single mother of 2. Well she got defrauded by a man with same MO as OP's boyfriend. He topped her credit cards to 15K then he left, probably searching for his next victim. 

I have met too many ladies who have been victims to guys like this. They start off showering with gifts, flattery, and then, wham! They rip the person off in some manner and the nice, shiny, wrapping paper starts to peel off revealing something quite ugly inside. Bankrupt, thousands stolen, added debt, etc. Again, don't care what you do, but have a fricken' job and be financially independent, responsible. Otherwise, no way I will continue dating you. Desperate people, no matter how or why the circumstances came about, will do desperate things...eventually.

To do my part, I never, ever express my interest with expensive gifts. Not early on and especially if I feel that doing so is expected. Dating for some time (at least a year) is important to be able to see how financially independent and reliable the other person is. His/her habits, ability to contribute to dating, how he/she vacations, ability to pay bills, etc. and all w/o asking you for money to do so. I do place a financial burden on my partner to make her feel any financial obligation to me. I don't feel that is fair. If I cannot have my crap together, I certainly will not impose myself on her as a financial burden. Just me...

Edited February 7, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020

[smackie9]

If your bank ever found out he has your pin number, any other money that goes missing they simple will not cover you for that theft. A coworker of my husband's found out the hard way when his GF's account was hacked over $2000. He let it slip he also had access to her account when they asked...dummy. The bank refused to cover it.

Doesn't matter how generous they are, doesn't mean you have to lend them money out of obligation. Them needing to borrow money is big red flag in my books if it becomes a habit. And certainly never ever let anyone have access to your account and no joint accounts. You are setting yourself up for this sort of thing.

Change your pin and don't give it away again.

 

[SabreTeeth]

2 hours ago, Ellener said:

I respectfully don't agree, and bow out. If you have knowledge and expertise in these areas then have at it; but keep it supportive and encouraging to the person who posted is what I would want to do, and we're getting away from that.

Yes, but that's not your uncle writing and it's not you who did social work is it.

I actually think in America his behaviour is 100% typical. 

People equate money with love, with power, with achievement here. People go into debt for frivolities by other nation standards.

( And yes, we saw yesterday politically, that's deemed okay if you're rich and powerful enough, people don't question or expect answers half enough )

But that's nothing to do with the original poster and her timid asking of advice about a stray $100 and the realisation her new partner can't handle money.

They may go on to have a great relationship later, who knows, but she will have to take over that side of things to do so.

'Here endeth the lesson'.

 

Ellener - hate to break it to you dear but if my father was a PhD & did risk assessment (meaning he had to have a BSW at least) & my uncle was a social worker it's rather unlikely I didn't follow the familial trend. I have two university degrees including a Masters in Social Work. I've worked as a social worker with high risk groups like addicts & minorities, specifically aboriginals, for 8 years. It'll be 9 this June. My "job" working with livestock I mentioned elsewhere is more a labour intensive hobby than anything. 

And yes though people equate love with money - that isn't everyone as actions speak louder than words or cheap change - what this guy did would, as many have mentioned, is abnormal. He is obviously not rich so he can't warrant the excessive spending like a "sugar daddy" would. As a social worker/risk assessor you are missing warning signs as big as Saturn about this guy. He did not do this for "love" though many victims of con artists certainly believe it is "love". 

Edited February 7, 2020 by SabreTeeth

[preraph]

I have never once given anyone my PIN number. It is not normal. Even parents who give there's two kids often live to regret it.

[sk1977]

10 minutes ago, S2B said:

do you plan to end it today when he pays back the money? What do you do if he doesn’t pay back $200 today?

have a plan!

We talked on the phone last night and he said he was frustrated with the situation and the fact that I can't just move on and continue like it never happened. He said once again that when he did it, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, that his intentions weren't not to do something malicious. When I asked him if he would get mad if I took money from his bank account without asking, he hesitated for a bit and said, "probably not". He did apologize over text initially when I confronted him, but he never said it on the phone when we talked later. That combined with him saying he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, it's hard to take his "apology" seriously. We were supposed to go out this Friday night with friends, but now he cancelled it. I texted him this morning to see if he wanted to get together to talk about everything, but I haven't heard back. I don't know if I will.  

[sothereiwas]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

I have never once given anyone my PIN number. It is not normal. Even parents who give there's two kids often live to regret it.

This. If a kid needs access to money get them a family card of their own. If a person you're dating needs access to your money, rethink life choices. 

[BaileyB]

16 minutes ago, sk1977 said:

When I asked him if he would get mad if I took money from his bank account without asking, he hesitated for a bit and said, "probably not". 

You better believe that he would have questions and I think if he was being honest, he would admit that it would be a problem.

I used to sneak dollar bills out of my mom’s wallet when I was younger... that never went over well. I would never think to take money from my partners account - we live together, we now have a joint account to pay the mortgage, but our own accounts are private and we do not have each other’s PIN number. In fact, I just moved some money from our joint account into my own account because the banker made an error, I was sure to tell my partner before I did it so that he knew it was on the up and up...

I don’t think you are in the wrong to be concerned about this. It’s not necessary about the money - it’s about character, ethics, respect, trust, honesty...

[sothereiwas]

I see two explanations for this, maybe someone else can come up with a few more. Understanding people isn't my strong suit. For me, he's either a con man or a nitwit. Neither of those describes someone I would have wanted in my life if I could avoid it. 

[sk1977]

Guys, I know it was a bad idea to give him my PIN. I get it. I admitted it in my original post. I came here to ask for advice whether or not to try to continue the relationship. 
I don't think he is a con-artist. Would con-artist introduce me to his family and friends, if he was in just for the money? Plus, I don't really have any money to be worth con-artist's time. 
His family was really good to me too. They made me feel welcome right away, and yes, they gave me gifts for Christmas too. Could it be that he was just brought up in a very generous family? My family lives in another country, so it was really nice to have a family here to celebrate holidays with. 

Aside from the money issue, I'm dealing with the possibility of this relationship being over and it really hurts. Yes, it's only been 4 months, but I've never in my life met anyone like him before. I'm 43 and been through two divorces and one long term relationship, and I have never met a more thoughtful, caring guy, and I'm not talking about the gifts here! Now, I don't know if what I saw was only what he chose to show me, and maybe it was all a lie, but I don't know and nobody else knows that for sure. And yes, I'm not supposed to be feeling what I'm feeling for him after only being with him for 4 months, but I am in love with this guy.  And this situation is really hard to deal with as it is, so if you could please hold the judgment, and just stick with support and only constructive criticism, if appropriate, I would appreciate it. Thank you!

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, sk1977 said:

I came here to ask for advice whether or not to try to continue the relationship. 

If you do stay with him, keep your accounts separate. I would also set some healthier boundaries around gifts. And if you ever were to live with this man, get a cohabitation agreement such that your assets don’t “co-mingle,” each persons financial responsibilities are very clear, as well as what will happen in event of separation or divorce. 

I suppose you wait to hear from him now. He may make that decision for you. But if he does, I would suggest that it’s probably for the best that it happen now before you get even more attached. Good luck to you. 

[sk1977]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

If you do stay with him, keep your accounts separate. I would also set some healthier boundaries around gifts. And if you ever were to live with this man, get a cohabitation agreement such that your assets don’t “co-mingle,” each persons financial responsibilities are very clear, as well as what will happen in event of separation or divorce. 

I suppose you wait to hear from him now. He may make that decision for you. But if he does, I would suggest that it’s probably for the best that it happen now before you get even more attached. Good luck to you. 

Thank you!

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, sk1977 said:

We talked on the phone last night and he said he was frustrated with the situation and the fact that I can't just move on and continue like it never happened. 

So instead of recognizing he did something dishonest and own his mistake he just discard your feelings and tell you to shut up and continue being pretty right!

sk1977 we do not see the true color of our partner during good moments, we see their true color during disagreements.  This man has no concerns for your feelings. He can't wait for you to shut up about how this made you feel. Now you're starting to see him for whom he really is. 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, sk1977 said:

I'm 43 and been through two divorces and one long term relationship, 

And what have you learn?  Prince charming don't exist. Rushing in a relationship isn't good, introducing a stranger man in your kids's life isn't good, a man that dismisses your feeling isn't good no matter how much money he shed on you at xmas. 

[smackie9]

Just his attitude about helping himself to your bank account without your permission is "dump him" worthy. That's theft! and doesn't see an issue with that?? It's a no brainer IMO

[smackie9]

6 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

And what have you learn?  Prince charming don't exist. Rushing in a relationship isn't good, introducing a stranger man in your kids's life isn't good, a man that dismisses your feeling isn't good no matter how much money he shed on you at xmas. 

And who knows where he pinched that money from......

[SabreTeeth]

2 hours ago, sk1977 said:

Guys, I know it was a bad idea to give him my PIN. I get it. I admitted it in my original post. I came here to ask for advice whether or not to try to continue the relationship. 
I don't think he is a con-artist. Would con-artist introduce me to his family and friends, if he was in just for the money? Plus, I don't really have any money to be worth con-artist's time. 
His family was really good to me too. They made me feel welcome right away, and yes, they gave me gifts for Christmas too. Could it be that he was just brought up in a very generous family? My family lives in another country, so it was really nice to have a family here to celebrate holidays with. 

But why would you continue the relationship? He's lied by omission to you. He doesn't care about your take of the issue though, given his response via phone, he'd likely be pissed off if you did it to him. 

As for a con artist introducing you to friends & family, why not? They are witnesses to his nice guy act & you, on the other hand, become someone taking advantage of his generosity. The fact that you gave him card & PIN means that the banks (or police even) wouldn't really care or do much if he scammed you.

 

Btw cons don't just target rich people. Rich make up minority of the earth's population & the potential hassle & risk of scamming one isn't quite worth it compared to conning 10 people who aren't rich for close to the same sort of haul. 

 

2 hours ago, sk1977 said:

Aside from the money issue, I'm dealing with the possibility of this relationship being over and it really hurts. Yes, it's only been 4 months, but I've never in my life met anyone like him before. I'm 43 and been through two divorces and one long term relationship, and I have never met a more thoughtful, caring guy, and I'm not talking about the gifts here! Now, I don't know if what I saw was only what he chose to show me, and maybe it was all a lie, but I don't know and nobody else knows that for sure. And yes, I'm not supposed to be feeling what I'm feeling for him after only being with him for 4 months, but I am in love with this guy.  And this situation is really hard to deal with as it is, so if you could please hold the judgment, and just stick with support and only constructive criticism, if appropriate, I would appreciate it. Thank you!

That's what con artists do, dear. They are manipulators. Just one such story. 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9229132-duped-women-go-after-charming-alleged-con-man-everything-he-said-was-a-lie-/ It started with a chance encounter in a coffee shop. He was charming and attractive, and everything he said mirrored her life.... She says she now realizes it wasn't a chance encounter. He targeted her, she says, using a well-honed script and asking pointed questions to develop a plan. It started off very casually — she wasn't looking for a relationship. But she was attracted to his desire to help youth and to give back to the community.

You may not have done it intentionally but you likely let your previous experiences slip in the initial days of dating or contact & he has angled his approach to compensate. If you said you were into "bad boys" he'd have bought a motorcycle, a leather studded jacket, & become your bad boy. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by SabreTeeth

[sk1977]

10 minutes ago, SabreTeeth said:

But why would you continue the relationship? He's lied by omission to you. He doesn't care about your take of the issue though, given his response via phone, he'd likely be pissed off if you did it to him. 

As for a con artist introducing you to friends & family, why not? They are witnesses to his nice guy act & you, on the other hand, become someone taking advantage of his generosity. The fact that you gave him card & PIN means that the banks (or police even) wouldn't really care or do much if he scammed you.

 

Btw cons don't just target rich people. Rich make up minority of the earth's population & the potential hassle & risk of scamming one isn't quite worth it compared to conning 10 people who aren't rich for close to the same sort of haul. 

 

That's what con artists do, dear. They are manipulators. Just one such story. 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9229132-duped-women-go-after-charming-alleged-con-man-everything-he-said-was-a-lie-/ It started with a chance encounter in a coffee shop. He was charming and attractive, and everything he said mirrored her life.... She says she now realizes it wasn't a chance encounter. He targeted her, she says, using a well-honed script and asking pointed questions to develop a plan. It started off very casually — she wasn't looking for a relationship. But she was attracted to his desire to help youth and to give back to the community.

You may not have done it intentionally but you likely let your previous experiences slip in the initial days of dating or contact & he has angled his approach to compensate. If you said you were into "bad boys" he'd have bought a motorcycle, a leather studded jacket, & become your bad boy. 

thank you!

[Ruby Slippers]

If he can't own up to his mistake, sincerely apologize, and promise not to do that again, you have nothing to work with.