Am I overreacting - is he cheating?

March 3, 2020

On 3/1/2020 at 1:38 PM, preraph said:

I bet what would make it go away real quick as if you showed up every single time and just bit the bullet for a while. I know that's a huge sacrifice. and you would also have to tell him you want to leave earlier and not leave him there alone. You have to tell him you want to ride there with him and leave with him and then you would prod him to leave earlier.

THIS!!!!!

March 3, 2020

It is good that you didn't find anything truly incriminating on his credit card bill. The fact that he did not feel the need to hide it from you to begin with, also bodes well.

You need to take good care of yourself and be your own best friend right now. Try to stop speculating and wait until the PI gives you definitive answers, one way or another. Let's say he is not having a full blown affair, but is enjoying the attention he gets from the woman you've described. This could be stopped in its tracks by you going out with your husband when he gathers with these friends. Shine a light on that whole scenario with your presence.

Meanwhile, try to relax. You are taking steps to put your mind at ease. Once you find out the truth, THEN you have decisions to make. Remember, when you first came out here, you were certain that he would not cheat on you. For your own sanity, try to keep that mindset unless/until proven otherwise.

March 3, 2020

Well thanks to this dumb girl I have enough evidence to say something to him tonight. She ordered him a gift from amazon and there is no reason at all for her to be ordering him gifts. So EVERYTHING that I know is coming out tonight when he gets home. He really seems clueless about the gift. I asked him what he wanted me to do with the stuff he ordered. He said he didn't order anything and put it inside and he would take a look at it when he got home. When I got it in I noticed a gift receipt and scanned it to see who it was from. He will act clueless , but I am going to bring up every little thing. So I guess at least I will save money on the PI if nothing else....

March 4, 2020

He’s such a lying piece of trash. As far as I’m concerned we are done. I have to save up money to leave him, but hopefully if I work my butt off with all my gig jobs and pick up extra shifts at my real job I can get out by mid summer.

also since we are over in my mind I’m going to go ahead and take that hot bartender up on his offer to hang out. I’m so over him and his pathetic life. He’ll wake up one day and realize he has nothing but a crap job and the only way he was able to get ahead was because I make so much more than him. So thankful for our prenup... I get the dogs and the cat. He can have everything else. I don’t want or need a reminder of how I wasted my entire life on a man who never really loved me.

with that being said, I’m off tomorrow so I’m going to go out with my newly single friend and see what we can get into. He can have his welfare trash girl and they can live in the ghetto and never be able to retire. I plan to let his family know he cheated because his dad always said If he ever cheated on me he would cut him out of the will. I believe him 100% because they adore me and if I let them know who he cheated on me with they will both be shunned forever.

guess I got the proof I needed. Gonna work on getting my payback now. I’m not going to do anything illegal, but I’m going to make sure his life is over 100%. I know enough about shady stuff he’s done at his job over the years to get him fired so I think that will be my parting gift to him when I leave.

March 4, 2020

Hey @rainfall Was the gift the evidence then? In that he fessed up or you assuming (based on circumstance of the gift) that he 100% has cheated?

And if he has, yep, you have the right to leave of course.

I would suggest a deep breath or 10 before doing anything to wreck his life. You are no doubt real real angry. Don't be in a rush to do do anything including the hot bartender. Not yet.

The best punishment you can give is to live your best life. Try not to spend to much energy in vindictiveness.

My ex spent 15 years trying to hurt me and in the process has wrecked her own physical and mental health.

March 4, 2020

16 hours ago, rainfall said:

Well thanks to this dumb girl I have enough evidence to say something to him tonight. She ordered him a gift from amazon and there is no reason at all for her to be ordering him gifts. So EVERYTHING that I know is coming out tonight when he gets home. He really seems clueless about the gift. I asked him what he wanted me to do with the stuff he ordered. He said he didn't order anything and put it inside and he would take a look at it when he got home. When I got it in I noticed a gift receipt and scanned it to see who it was from. He will act clueless , but I am going to bring up every little thing. So I guess at least I will save money on the PI if nothing else....

Before I answer your post right after you posted this, I have questions:

1. Are you saying SHE purchased a gift for him and had it delivered to YOUR residence? You've described this woman as a real piece of work (okay, trash.) Are you positive this is not something she might have done to get under your skin and help destroy your marriage? As diabolical as that sounds, it makes no sense to me that this woman would send a gift to him at your home, unless her motive was to purposefully do damage to your marriage.

2. What did he say when you confronted him? You know him best. Was he "acting" clueless, or was he really clueless about this? Did he say anything against her ? Did he try to defend her? Did he deny an affair? Did he admit to anything - like perhaps getting having an emotional affair?

I really want you to analyze her motive, here. If she was already having an affair with your husband and was getting what she wanted, what is her incentive to send him a gift to your home with the knowledge that you would most likely see the gift? When you think about it from that perspective, I wonder if this was her trashy way of trying to move in on a man who had spurned her advances. If she cared about him, she certainly wouldn't jeopardize her relationship with him by blowing up his marriage. She has to know that, with most men, that would be the end of their relationship, if there was one. So, what did she hope to gain by this?

Now I am going to respond to your second post.

March 4, 2020

14 hours ago, rainfall said:

He’s such a lying piece of trash. As far as I’m concerned we are done. I have to save up money to leave him, but hopefully if I work my butt off with all my gig jobs and pick up extra shifts at my real job I can get out by mid summer.

also since we are over in my mind I’m going to go ahead and take that hot bartender up on his offer to hang out. I’m so over him and his pathetic life. He’ll wake up one day and realize he has nothing but a crap job and the only way he was able to get ahead was because I make so much more than him. So thankful for our prenup... I get the dogs and the cat. He can have everything else. I don’t want or need a reminder of how I wasted my entire life on a man who never really loved me.

with that being said, I’m off tomorrow so I’m going to go out with my newly single friend and see what we can get into. He can have his welfare trash girl and they can live in the ghetto and never be able to retire. I plan to let his family know he cheated because his dad always said If he ever cheated on me he would cut him out of the will. I believe him 100% because they adore me and if I let them know who he cheated on me with they will both be shunned forever.

guess I got the proof I needed. Gonna work on getting my payback now. I’m not going to do anything illegal, but I’m going to make sure his life is over 100%. I know enough about shady stuff he’s done at his job over the years to get him fired so I think that will be my parting gift to him when I leave.

These are all words spoken out of anger, understandably. Take a deep breath. CLEARLY, something inappropriate did happen and it could range anywhere from flirtation to an emotional affair to a full out physical affair where he told her he loved her but wouldn't leave his wife, so she decided to blow up your marriage.

Did he deny, deny, deny? What was his reasoning for this woman sending him a gift to your home? When you reacted in anger, what was his reaction? Did he proclaim his undying love for you and his willingness to save your marriage?

Cheating, understandably, is a deal-breaker for many (it was for me...eventually.) I just want to make sure you have ALL the facts before you get him fired and put him out on the street.

I also advise against adding another human being to this mix right now. The hot bartender will still be there when all of this is settled. Give yourself a little time to absorb and adjust to this new information. LISTEN to your husband, maybe go to marriage counseling to get to the bottom of the issue, THEN you can take action with a clear head.

One last thing, you mentioned his father said he would cut him out of the will if he ever cheated on you. Did his father believe he had the propensity to cheat all along? That's just a strange proclamation for a father to make about his son.

I am sorry you are in this spot. You have said from your first post that you didn't think he would ever cheat on you, but you also said if he did, that would be the end. So, #1 - make sure he really DID cheat on you. #2 - You are a strong, intelligent woman and will get through this, but you need to keep a hold of your emotions and not react out of anger. Talk all of this through with your trusted friend. Keep us posted on how you are doing, Rainfall.

March 4, 2020

6 hours ago, vla1120 said:

Before I answer your post right after you posted this, I have questions:

1. Are you saying SHE purchased a gift for him and had it delivered to YOUR residence? You've described this woman as a real piece of work (okay, trash.) Are you positive this is not something she might have done to get under your skin and help destroy your marriage? As diabolical as that sounds, it makes no sense to me that this woman would send a gift to him at your home, unless her motive was to purposefully do damage to your marriage.

2. What did he say when you confronted him? You know him best. Was he "acting" clueless, or was he really clueless about this? Did he say anything against her ? Did he try to defend her? Did he deny an affair? Did he admit to anything - like perhaps getting having an emotional affair?

I really want you to analyze her motive, here. If she was already having an affair with your husband and was getting what she wanted, what is her incentive to send him a gift to your home with the knowledge that you would most likely see the gift? When you think about it from that perspective, I wonder if this was her trashy way of trying to move in on a man who had spurned her advances. If she cared about him, she certainly wouldn't jeopardize her relationship with him by blowing up his marriage. She has to know that, with most men, that would be the end of their relationship, if there was one. So, what did she hope to gain by this?

Now I am going to respond to your second post.

1. Yep she bought him a gift and he seemed truly shocked about it. He claims he had no idea she as going to get him this. It could be something she is doing to destroy us. I have noticed on the text logs she sends 3-4 for every one he sends. So she is defiantly after him. My problem is I do not know if he is after her.

2. He said that she told him she was getting him a gift for his birthday. He told her no don't get me anything and this thing showed up. He talks bad about her all the time and how she wastes her money on stupid things, when she is on welfare and can barley afford to feed herself. He claims nothing is going on between them, but at this point I don't know if I believe him. I know he knows I am upset about something. He keeps asking me why I am losing so much weight. At this point his going out has been fixed. The other night all of his little group went out and he said he didn't want to go because he was enjoying spending time with me. I am thinking she either wants their affair (assuming there is one) to come out so we will divorce or she is after him. He is kinda clueless when it comes to chicks hitting on him so IDK.....he is clueless but not THIS clueless.

5 hours ago, vla1120 said:

These are all words spoken out of anger, understandably. Take a deep breath. CLEARLY, something inappropriate did happen and it could range anywhere from flirtation to an emotional affair to a full out physical affair where he told her he loved her but wouldn't leave his wife, so she decided to blow up your marriage.

Did he deny, deny, deny? What was his reasoning for this woman sending him a gift to your home? When you reacted in anger, what was his reaction? Did he proclaim his undying love for you and his willingness to save your marriage?

Cheating, understandably, is a deal-breaker for many (it was for me...eventually.) I just want to make sure you have ALL the facts before you get him fired and put him out on the street.

I also advise against adding another human being to this mix right now. The hot bartender will still be there when all of this is settled. Give yourself a little time to absorb and adjust to this new information. LISTEN to your husband, maybe go to marriage counseling to get to the bottom of the issue, THEN you can take action with a clear head.

One last thing, you mentioned his father said he would cut him out of the will if he ever cheated on you. Did his father believe he had the propensity to cheat all along? That's just a strange proclamation for a father to make about his son.

I am sorry you are in this spot. You have said from your first post that you didn't think he would ever cheat on you, but you also said if he did, that would be the end. So, #1 - make sure he really DID cheat on you. #2 - You are a strong, intelligent woman and will get through this, but you need to keep a hold of your emotions and not react out of anger. Talk all of this through with your trusted friend. Keep us posted on how you are doing, Rainfall.

His dad said it as a joke one day. His sister's husband cheated on her and we were all talking about it. He said, "Jessica you are lucky it wasn't you that cheated you would be out of the will". Then he looked at my husband and said sames goes for you if you ever cheat. His first wife cheated on him so he HATES cheaters with a passion. I don't know what to think. He is saying and doing everything to be a great husband. It is just that I don't trust him after everything that has happened so every little thing to me is a sign of cheating. I plan to ask him tonight what exactly is going on with the two of them. I was so mad last night that I figured I didn't want to go to prison so I would wait a day to talk to him more.

March 4, 2020

How does she know your home address? Seems mighty inappropriate for your husband to give her that information and then act "clueless" about the gift.

March 4, 2020

1 minute ago, RedOlive said:

How does she know your home address? Seems mighty inappropriate for your husband to give her that information and then act "clueless" about the gift.

That’s actually something I didn’t even think about. I’m going to have to ask him about that

March 4, 2020

Actually I know exactly what he will say.

A mutual friend gave it to her because she told him she was getting him a bday card/gift.

I still don't know what I am going to do. I am going to save money and work as much as possible to save enough to leave him if needed. I never saw this coming so I was working to pay off student loans and enjoying my life and not worrying about saving money to support myself. I make more than enough to pay for my monthly bills. The problem is getting my own place and the cost of moving and getting all new stuff because I want nothing around me that reminds me of him if he is cheating.

He is going to deny it forever so I guess I am going to go the PI route. I am going to meet with them next week and discuss how/when/where I want them to do this. I hope next time he says he is "going out of town" I can get them to follow him and let me know if he goes alone of if he picks up his trashy girl. I only have one more major thing I need to pay off before I can start saving to get away from him. Hopefully by that time this will be over one way or the other.

March 5, 2020

So yesterday you had all the proof to leave him and today you are still unsure? Your story changes a lot. Something is off here.

March 5, 2020

6 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

So yesterday you had all the proof to leave him and today you are still unsure? Your story changes a lot. Something is off here.

A good cheater always have convincing means. I swear I would know I have the proof, and I would be so strong in it. Then my H would come home and turn on the charm and say all the things that no way would he say if he were lying. And I would hook, line and sinker take the bait. Two days later, i would see it through. Just as she is.

March 5, 2020

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

A good cheater always have convincing means. I swear I would know I have the proof, and I would be so strong in it. Then my H would come home and turn on the charm and say all the things that no way would he say if he were lying. And I would hook, line and sinker take the bait. Two days later, i would see it through. Just as she is.

Yep this is my problem. I don’t want to end this if he’s just a clueless guy. Everything I have is circumstantial and I need something 100%.

March 5, 2020

29 minutes ago, rainfall said:

Yep this is my problem. I don’t want to end this if he’s just a clueless guy. Everything I have is circumstantial and I need something 100%.

That was how I was. But I think with how strong you are feeling about this, there is absolutely something there. You do not feel so strongly about these things without subconsciously already knowing. I know, I have been there. And though he was able to convince me, eventually it did all come crashing down on me. I hope for your sanity you get that proof soon. Because living the way you are is not healthy. I know, I lived it. It took over 2 years to get to the bottom of it all. I lost my mind in those 2 years. 2-1/2 years later, I'm good. Wishing you all the best.

March 5, 2020

3 hours ago, S2B said:

I thought you had evidence you needed and made the decision?

why do you keep moving YOUR boundary to accommodate his bad behavior?

I have circumstantial evidence. I need 100% proof.

37 minutes ago, S2B said:

I can’t for the life of me understand why it takes you SO long to obtain a VAR!

you aren’t doing anything to be proactive - that’s why this isn’t showing any evidence.

It’s on the way. It’ll be here Monday according to the shipping.

36 minutes ago, S2B said:

Your clueless guy isn’t so clueless.

He is just a good liar... who wants both women. Typical cheating MM.

He’s pretty clueless. He has no idea how much I’ve snooped.

March 5, 2020

4 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

That was how I was. But I think with how strong you are feeling about this, there is absolutely something there. You do not feel so strongly about these things without subconsciously already knowing. I know, I have been there. And though he was able to convince me, eventually it did all come crashing down on me. I hope for your sanity you get that proof soon. Because living the way you are is not healthy. I know, I lived it. It took over 2 years to get to the bottom of it all. I lost my mind in those 2 years. 2-1/2 years later, I'm good. Wishing you all the best.

Oh I know it’s not healthy. I’m not sleeping. I’ve lost 18 pounds. I’m having other health issues that I’m pretty sure Is stress related. Almost got into 3 wrecks this past month because I’ve been crying non stop. Part of me hopes nothing is going on and he’s just enjoying the attention and once he gets his head out of his ‘&$ he sees what this is doing to me and we fix things.

part of me wants to come up with the most evil revenge for both of them and part of me wants to be the most amazing wife (while having my own side things) and catching him off guard when I leave him. These two are for when I get my 100% proof.

I’ve looked at everything on every account he has and there’s nothing. I’m going to try to install a gps tracking on his phone. I have the passcode now, but I really have no reason to look through his phone. I’ve never once looked through it so it would be weird to ask for that and we both always have our phones by our side.

I need to see if the gps tracker can be hidden. If it can that and my voice recorder should help. Hopefully it does get here Monday. It got pushed back from Friday to Monday and shipping hasn’t updated yet.

March 5, 2020

42 minutes ago, S2B said:

and How long do you think it will take for you to obtain that gps tracker?

I can install it on his phone as soon as I pick one. I am going to have a friend use the one I pick first to see if it is really hidden like it claims. We are going out tomorrow and I am going to put it on her phone (gonna pick which one tonight). I need to know he won't be able to see it is there. Once I have I decide it is safe to put on his phone I should be able to have it on there by Monday at the latest. If that doesn't work I am going to order one over night on Saturday and send it to my friend's house so hopefully the voice reorder and GPS tracker can both be here on Monday.

If I have to buy one I will have to figure out how to hide it on his car. I just don't want to be wrong and lose the love of my life. He is very clueless when it comes to women wanting him. He didn't pick up on the signs that I was into him for probably a month. I am just afraid I am wrong and he is going to find out about all of this snooping and tracking stuff and leave me for not trusting him.

I took time to look at the text logs today. She texts him 3-4 times to his one. Part of me thinks he is cheating, part of me thinks she wants him and he is just loving the attention ( I mean why would she send a gift to our home if their affair is supposed to be a secret... that part doesn't make sense to me), I've picked up my gig work again and have watched him leave work every day and he has always come straight home. On my days off I've checked and he goes straight to work. So its just when he goes out at night that I don't know what is going on or his trip to see his "friend".

If he is sleeping with this trash woman I know he doesn't want a relationship with her and it would only be sex, but even if that is the case I am going to make sure I find a way to get legal payback on both of them. For him I think having him lose all of his cheap health insurances ( when he has health issues and needs insurance) , discounted phone bill (we get 35% off with my job), and really cheap auto insurance that I can get will be enough. I figured out after all of the bills he would have he would barely have enough left over to eat and buy basic things without working 60 hours a week. So knowing he is stuck at a job he hates and has nothing would be enough. Plus letting his family know so they cut him out of the will and would never allow her around (if they did end up together) is enough for him.

For now it is just the wait until I get all my stuff in and see... I am having to act like everything is normal and it is killing me every time he touches me, but again I need to be 100% sure before I throw away 20 years of my life.

Edited March 5, 2020 by rainfall

March 5, 2020

8 minutes ago, S2B said:

You are making an awful lot of assumptions.
assumptions about him, her, your marriage and what you are willing to tolerate.

i suggest you make a firm list of what your healthy boundary looks like because you are on a slippery slope.

I am not making any assumptions about her. She is nothign but straight up trash and has nothing to offer anyone. I also have spent 20 years with this man. I know everything about him so it is easy to know what will happen if we do end things. I am not willing to tolerate him having any type of physical contact with another woman. If I get proof of that then we are done and I will ruin both of them. Healthy boundaries are no sleeping with other women, don't care more about your friendship with a piece of trash woman than your wife , and care about the fact that your behavior is hurting your wife. I think its pretty simple. Hopefully I will know by next week something.

March 6, 2020

9 minutes ago, S2B said:

Ya ok... well good luck with all that knowledge you have and are certain of.

I am certain of everything I know about her and his financial situation. The cheating I am not sure about. I know she never graduated high school , doesn't have a GED, has no car, has nothing at all to offer anyone in the way of an actual future. All she has to offer anyone is free sex to anyone willing to be there for her. And living with someone for 20 years you learn how they are with money. But we will see in the next week or two I guess.

March 6, 2020

For what it’s worth, if you are having to install a gps tracker on your husband of twenty years to be sure that he’s not sleeping with another woman - you have already lost the battle. The day I feel the need to do that is the day I file for divorce.

March 6, 2020

24 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

For what it’s worth, if you are having to install a gps tracker on your husband of twenty years to be sure that he’s not sleeping with another woman - you have already lost the battle. The day I feel the need to do that is the day I file for divorce.

The thought of cheating didn’t even cross my mind until I came here. I knew this welfare trash girl wanted him, but I didn’t know until I went snooping how close they were. If they were just friends it would be one thing, but when she has made it very clear that she is into him and doesn’t care that he’s married it’s different.

I can forgive a stupid midlife crisis and him wanting to feel young again. I can’t forgive cheating and this is why I need to know which one it is.

March 6, 2020

1 hour ago, S2B said:

And any husband who chooses his marriage over an outside friendship is making it clear the marriage is his priority... but he hasn’t.

if he’s willing to completely end that ‘friendship’ then you’ll know he values the marriage.

inappropriate relationships enter into marriages all the time - whether or not the spouse is willing to eliminate that third party tells what the intentions are for the future of the marriage.

stating that the marriage only ends if he’s had sex with her isn’t realistic for the M to be healthy.

if he continues the friendship that threatens the M - you still have a problem with someone else inserting themself into your M and your H not stopping the friendship.

100% +

Rainfall, have you considered just telling him you are not comfortable with the woman being ANY part of his life and asking him to cease all contact including blocking her number? If he wont then S2B is right.

You can separate sex and love, sex and emotions. Sex is not the ultimate betrayal of trust and love you know...

March 6, 2020

1 hour ago, Baman said:

You can separate sex and love, sex and emotions. Sex is not the ultimate betrayal of trust and love you know.

Your situation is way different, but for many sex involving a third party IS the ultimate betrayal.
Sex by itself is just a physical act, but what it stands for to most, is HUGE..
Monogamous couples ONLY have sex with their SO, it is about pair bonding, it is about connection, it is about love, it is about trust.
For another to invade or to be "invited" in, is a complete disaster for many, as their whole life is then ruined.
No safety, no security, no trust, no faith in human nature.
Conspiracy, lying, betrayal... becomes part of their life and they don't want it or like it.

March 6, 2020

18 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Your situation is way different, but for many sex involving a third party IS the ultimate betrayal.
Sex by itself is just a physical act, but what it stands for to most, is HUGE..
Monogamous couples ONLY have sex with their SO, it is about pair bonding, it is about connection, it is about love, it is about trust.
For another to invade or to be "invited" in, is a complete disaster for many, as their whole life is then ruined.
No safety, no security, no trust, no faith in human nature.
Conspiracy, lying, betrayal... becomes part of their life and they don't want it or like it.

No objection here, but in the OP's case what everyone has been saying from day one (and she chooses to ignore) is that her marriage has way more problems than just him cheating. Please read the thread and you will notice it as well. I've just come to the conclusion that she likes to hide the real problems under the rug because she knows it's almost impossible to fix them and because, if she admits that her marriage problems are that huge, it will be like admitting that the past 20 years were a disaster which is not easy for people to do so they prefer to live in a virtual reality.

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