Author ZA Dater Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/22/2020 at 8:58 PM, serene53 said: Maybe you are too stuck on the superficial? More often than not I find myself attracted to guys I wouldn't usually think attractive initially. Because some of those men turn out to be fun and given the choice I always prefer someone fun and who might not win a beauty contest to someone superficially attractive and dull. I dated a lot of those initially attractive men because I also fall for looks. However, I felt no desire to see them a second time. Really, the conversation was so trivial that I might as well be talking to a bot. I am not saying that you have to go for the obese women, but to give the women a chance you don't like at first. I think we all tend to start liking those people whose company we enjoy. Don't give up on love just because it's taking its time to find you. I think I simply want to date someone superficially pretty just once for that experience 1
basil67 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 What is the advantage of superficially pretty over someone who's great company?
SumGuy Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, basil67 said: What is the advantage of superficially pretty over someone who's great company? Appearances and status I would guess.
chillii Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Gees l'm amazed at how so many round here seem to talk about some status thing about being with someone, arm candy , or whatever. l can't even fathom the thinking myself . l mean who givesafk what other people are thinking your the one living life with her or him and sleeping with her or him and waking up to them everyday. The advantage would be what seems like the so obvious to me , to hell with status , but your at least obviously gonna enjoy molesting her or him far more than someone your not so attracted to. But eh, that'll only be for awhile with any real person, because sooner or later looks alone won't make a lasting worthwhile relationship and anyone with any kind of soul is gonna need a lot more than just looks. Then again though, with some of the people round here , maybe not. Edited February 25, 2020 by chillii
Content Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, chillii said: Gees l'm amazed at how so many round here seem to talk about some status thing about being with someone, arm candy , or whatever. l can't even fathom the thinking myself . l mean who givesafk what other people are thinking your the one living life with her or him and sleeping with her or him and waking up to them everyday. The advantage would be what seems like the so obvious to me , to hell with status , but your at least obviously gonna enjoy molesting her or him far more than someone your not so attracted to. But eh, that'll only be for awhile with any real person, because sooner or later looks alone won't make a lasting worthwhile relationship and anyone with any kind of soul is gonna need a lot more than just looks. Then again though, with some of the people round here , maybe not. It’s crazy the lack of depth a lot of people have on here.. The crazy thing is a lot of people here still obsessed with looks/status are pretty up there in age which is kinda weird. I can see teenagers and people in their 20’s worried about stuff like that and being very shallow but if you’re in your 40’s 50’s 60’s and still like that it’s kinda pathetic. Edited February 26, 2020 by Content 2
Author ZA Dater Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Content said: It’s crazy the lack of depth a lot of people have on here.. The crazy thing is a lot of people here still obsessed with looks/status are pretty up there in age which is kinda weird. I can see teenagers and people in their 20’s worried about stuff like that and being very shallow but if you’re in your 40’s 50’s 60’s and still like that it’s kinda pathetic. I'll take heavy criticism for saying this but nonetheless. Think about what you aspire to in life, I am not saying personality is irrelevant but I think most would say physical attraction is important. I have been on the other end of this for most of my life so I know how bad it feels to be undesirable. For me I have written off ever getting married, frankly 5 dates with the same person would be astonishing. I would love to feel some sort of mutual companionship and I have come close perhaps three times and it is nice feeling to connect intellectually and be attracted physically. Sure, I am not the six pack guy so perhaps what I want isn't realistic, I don't have the words nicest face and I probably don't have the worlds nicest manner either but that doesn't stop me aspiring to the combination of attraction. Will I ever accomplish it? If I were honest I'd say probably not but there is that chance I could...so long as that scenario exists I will try even though I feel the boat sailing away, leaving me on the dock to wonder many things. I believe in life we need to experience the best things we can, there have been people I really, really liked overall and yes when I think about those experiences I see why dating can be superb. However when I go through theses average experiences where there is no real attraction at all I tend to just loose hope. The mistakes I have made at dating have in retrospect been the worst ones to make, each one has set me back, each one makes me less desirable so at nearly 36 I realise all I might ever get out of dating are a handful of good memories.
Envy123 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 On 2/25/2020 at 8:17 PM, basil67 said: What is the advantage of superficially pretty over someone who's great company? Maybe that I actually attract superficially pretty women and not people who can be great company? This is a serious problem, that happened from preschool to the present day. I can't help gravitating towards conventionally attractive women and get to know them as people, because I think that due to our differences in looks, we can never be together (was proven wrong on numerous occasions). So I come across as confident and attraction happens. But I think that lower conventional looks = higher chances, and we are destined for one another and I hope she will see that. But I either avoid her or push romance too much onto her that she avoids me. I am now rethinking about going after people who I deem on my level, because I become either arrogant or shy without fail. Maybe I should continue to make friends with conventionally attractive women and at least one of them will be both pretty and have great interests and be someone who I will click with.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 3, 2020 Author Posted March 3, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 10:43 PM, Envy123 said: I am now rethinking about going after people who I deem on my level, because I become either arrogant or shy without fail. Maybe I should continue to make friends with conventionally attractive women and at least one of them will be both pretty and have great interests and be someone who I will click with. I'd go with that if you are fortunate enough to be able to attract those sort of people. Ultimately if you can do that half the struggle is won because you can least attract people you find attractive. My issue is I cannot ever attract anyone I find attractive. The reality for me is seemingly this big gulf cannot really be overcome. I am very stubborn and ultimately I want what I want and nothing else will do so the chances of me not finding mutual attraction important are close to zero. In your scenario you have the benefit I would guess of being friends with people you find attractive, which is no bad thing because chances are they have attractive friends. Unfortunately we don't get to choose how we look so some of us will forever be looking and doing nothing else but looking. Which is guess explains much of what we see, Kate Upton on a magazine cover, a model on a poster, a slim athlete, everything is designed to be aspirational I suppose, to show us the pretty of the pretty not the average of the average. I cant argue with that but perhaps it also makes us want things we cant really accomplish. Simply put I grew up thinking I looked ok, always made sure I had good manners, did my best to do well in what I wanted to do but I was always shy and awkward around girls, thanks to my height I did get a fair amount of interest in senior high but again shy and the sense "well I do pick this up after I have done studies" took over. I never spent enough time doing the things which mattered back then and spent a lot of time on things I thought mattered but really didn't. My awkwardness never really goes away either, I try carry confidence but I also carry a defeatist attitude too because honestly most dates I go on are not one I would choose to go on but simply I cannot find anyone who I like to go on a date with. People pick this up, last year someone wanted to "teach me to date" but me being me I was fairly disinterested and she moved on. The reality is very seldom have a I met anyone I actually want to compromise for, if I am going to do that then the person must be worth the compromise. I think everyone can change their own reality but only to a certain extent. Mine, sure I can probably bend over and compromise and pretend I like someone I don't really but why should it, that's not the sort of experience I want. Here is the thing, people go out with people they find attractive in some way or another, how often is this based on looks? I'd say at least 90% of the time. Like anything I go out and look at who matches with who and its always the same, which is why I know I can walk past a stunning brunette, look and smile because I know never on this earth would she be interested in me
Envy123 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 In my case, I did try to shoot for the stars with a conventionally attractive girl (let's call her Cathy) back in secondary school. But she wasn't interested, so I assumed every girl like her would be like that with me from then on (ignoring that I have attracted girls like her before, go figure). So I ended up treating every conventionally attractive girl like Cathy. Exactly like her. It's a subconscious thing, truth be told. But I am more confident and less attached to the outcome of romance and these girls are more comfortable with me as a partner, than other girls. Other girls - my God, I'm a creep. I think of the movie Shallow Hal and I idealise it so much that I push romance, thinking it's going to be exactly like the movie. Truth - no, it doesn't, and that movie is just entertainment. I have been defeatist, too, with girls like Cathy. But as I found the friendship with Cathy rich and fulfilling, I think the same with girls like her and I feel like I "need" romance less and more to get to know her as a person. That is the major difference in our situations, I think. 1
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) That makes a lot of sense, Envy. I was actually confused by the dichotomy that’s in line with what I see often here and other places. The physically attractive person with bad personality/physically unattractive person with a good personality. Very insightful of you to realize a possibility of why you may be making that association. I feel like a lot of what attracts(or repels) is to people stems from previous experiences with people who share similar characteristics. Edited March 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
Envy123 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 Exactly - I also subconsciously assume everyone who’s like Cathy is going to be a shallow drama queen, who is worth getting to know but don’t bend over backwards for her as she’s going to drag me down. So I am helpful but not at my expense, as I’m worried that my valuable time will be sucked away. And not bending over backwards for someone = attractive. Puzzle pieces are coming together now. 1
chillii Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 The not so good looking genuine girls have always very often been the best people and can make incredible partners. That was always a very obvious no brainer even as a kid in school. Rarely have l met to this day, any very good looking women that come close .
Author ZA Dater Posted March 3, 2020 Author Posted March 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Envy123 said: I have been defeatist, too, with girls like Cathy. But as I found the friendship with Cathy rich and fulfilling, I think the same with girls like her and I feel like I "need" romance less and more to get to know her as a person. That is the major difference in our situations, I think. I think you have half the battle won in the sense you can be friends with them, implying they actually want to spend time with you which suggests to me you have a great personality and are fun to be around, so its easier to actually form friendships. This something I have not ever been able to accomplish. At the moment I have so few really good things going on in life in general I just wonder why I even bother with some parts of it. Two more pointless set up dates where the people were not even interested in me at all made me wonder what the heck my friend told them about me when he set me up. I then look at another friend, his relationships are disasters, the level of drama is just insane and I ask myself do I really want any of this? Fundamentally I just think so much of what I like is based on "well I like that but for what it is but I like it more because I am unlikely to ever attain it". Wish I could go back and make different decisions. 1
Envy123 Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 6:36 PM, chillii said: The not so good looking genuine girls have always very often been the best people and can make incredible partners. That was always a very obvious no brainer even as a kid in school. Rarely have l met to this day, any very good looking women that come close . Which is probably why the genuine girls are way pickier when it comes to potential partners, from my experience, while the cheerleader/model/influencer more likely will find me a good partner for an LTR. On 3/3/2020 at 7:27 PM, ZA Dater said: I think you have half the battle won in the sense you can be friends with them, implying they actually want to spend time with you which suggests to me you have a great personality and are fun to be around, so its easier to actually form friendships. I don't doubt that my personality has an effect on attraction, but it's mostly that I've been good friends with more conventionally attractive women than others and those friendships were fulfilling. And I can't help associating every conventionally attractive woman as Cathy. I automatically become more confident as a result of it. I guess another factor is that one of the things that my exes have in common - is that they got a lot of male attention, the bad kind, and I wasn't one of the guys who was rude or leering at her. So, I stand out. But any other girl - they don't have such attention, so there is nothing particularly unique I can offer them in their eyes.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 5, 2020 Author Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Envy123 said: I guess another factor is that one of the things that my exes have in common - is that they got a lot of male attention, the bad kind, and I wasn't one of the guys who was rude or leering at her. So, I stand out. But any other girl - they don't have such attention, so there is nothing particularly unique I can offer them in their eyes. I have always tried to be this sort of guy too, however I guess there is more to it than just being that, being that guy doesn't get me noticed at all to the point where my perspective is the leering guys are the ones who seem to win in my eyes. Your posts have made me think a lot so I would like to thank you for sharing your experiences and opinions. I'd love to date just one "conventionally attractive" lady but I suspect the only way I could do that is to simply pay for it but I know I wouldn't like the absolute fake feeling that would evoke.
Trail Blazer Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 5:23 AM, Cookiesandough said: Looks matter in online dating. In other news: water is wet. Actually, water is not wet. Water simply makes wet what it comes into contact with. The best compliment you could ever give a man is to call him water. He makes all the women he comes into contact with... erm... you know! 1
Trail Blazer Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 5:06 AM, chillii said: The not so good looking genuine girls have always very often been the best people and can make incredible partners. That was always a very obvious no brainer even as a kid in school. Rarely have l met to this day, any very good looking women that come close . My experience hasn't mirrored yours at all. My ex-wife is the least attractive person I've dated. Yet, over time, I realized she wasn't the nice person I thought she was. I guess experience has taught me harsh lessons. I raised my standards when pre-entering the dating market. I was lucky enough to attract some very decent looking girls. Dated a few, most were really nice. I did experiment a little, where I'd swipe right more frequently and, yes, I received plenty more matches as a result. More than I could possibly want to date. I found the better looking women were more educated, intelligent and respectful. Some of the average looking women seemed to have a chip on their shoulder about something, or we had little in common. I don't know; I can't really put my finger on it, but that was just my personal experience.
Envy123 Posted March 6, 2020 Posted March 6, 2020 15 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Your posts have made me think a lot so I would like to thank you for sharing your experiences and opinions. I'd love to date just one "conventionally attractive" lady but I suspect the only way I could do that is to simply pay for it but I know I wouldn't like the absolute fake feeling that would evoke. It is interesting to hear other people’s experiences. I guess we are both in the situation that we attract the opposite of who we are, looks wise. 10 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: Some of the average looking women seemed to have a chip on their shoulder about something, or we had little in common. I don't know; I can't really put my finger on it, but that was just my personal experience. I got this very recently too. From my previous workplace, more conventionally attractive women were polite and respectful while most others were arrogant and standoffish. One even calls herself “classic”, talk about arrogant. Looking at it - at this rate, I’d much rather date the respectful but sometimes overly emotional, than someone who calls herself a classic princess and has too high standards of her partner. At least I can set boundaries on the former.
chillii Posted March 6, 2020 Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: My experience hasn't mirrored yours at all. My ex-wife is the least attractive person I've dated. Yet, over time, I realized she wasn't the nice person I thought she was. I guess experience has taught me harsh lessons. I raised my standards when pre-entering the dating market. I was lucky enough to attract some very decent looking girls. Dated a few, most were really nice. I did experiment a little, where I'd swipe right more frequently and, yes, I received plenty more matches as a result. More than I could possibly want to date. I found the better looking women were more educated, intelligent and respectful. Some of the average looking women seemed to have a chip on their shoulder about something, or we had little in common. I don't know; I can't really put my finger on it, but that was just my personal experience. Yeah right. l'm not in the states , women there sound like a breed all their own, so for me who knows but envy found the same so, once again it becomes all about looks there according to forums. Always sounds incredibly shallow butttt, as l say not there so l dunno. l always wonder though, what must happen with the other 90% of the population then , gotta be all single and dateless the way forums bang on. Here though over the years known quite a few average or below friends or friends of friends some very well and mostly really , they've usually been worth 10 of the more prettier woman . But eh , not always and it's not to say they're all thst way or this , but that has always been a very common observation though. l do agree though that the better looking women do develop a way about them and it usually goes right through to their style tastes the way the dress the way they look after themselves , everything. . Edited March 6, 2020 by chillii
Envy123 Posted March 6, 2020 Posted March 6, 2020 1 hour ago, chillii said: Yeah right. l'm not in the states , women there sound like a breed all their own, so for me who knows but envy found the same so, once again it becomes all about looks there according to forums. I'm in the UK and can say that the same thing happened with me. The unconventionally attractive women were more likely to be insecure, bitter, arrogant or jaded - compared to the conventionally attractive women. Looking at it - the women who I chased did turn out to be insecure, bitter, arrogant or jaded. Even my drama queen friend Cathy back in the day, she was modest, had good interests and looking at her now - she has really made a future for herself. There are some exceptions, of course, but I can't ignore the general pattern. 1 1
Trail Blazer Posted March 6, 2020 Posted March 6, 2020 3 hours ago, chillii said: Yeah right. l'm not in the states , women there sound like a breed all their own, so for me who knows but envy found the same so, once again it becomes all about looks there according to forums. Always sounds incredibly shallow butttt, as l say not there so l dunno. l always wonder though, what must happen with the other 90% of the population then , gotta be all single and dateless the way forums bang on. Here though over the years known quite a few average or below friends or friends of friends some very well and mostly really , they've usually been worth 10 of the more prettier woman . But eh , not always and it's not to say they're all thst way or this , but that has always been a very common observation though. l do agree though that the better looking women do develop a way about them and it usually goes right through to their style tastes the way the dress the way they look after themselves , everything. . I'm a pretty well-traveled man. My time spent in Australia, UK, Germany and Canada has taught me that western women are pretty similar. The bulk of my dating experience is only localized. Girls in, say, Mississippi or Louisiana might be very different to the Pacific Northwest and may as well be in another country. I still think they'd be similar in any case.
chillii Posted March 6, 2020 Posted March 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: I'm a pretty well-traveled man. My time spent in Australia, UK, Germany and Canada has taught me that western women are pretty similar. The bulk of my dating experience is only localized. Girls in, say, Mississippi or Louisiana might be very different to the Pacific Northwest and may as well be in another country. I still think they'd be similar in any case. Haaaa, surprise surprise . Anyway l'll just opt out here, l really can't stand getting into all this stuff anyway tbh, especially in this forum.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 9, 2020 Author Posted March 9, 2020 On 3/6/2020 at 4:33 PM, Envy123 said: I'm in the UK and can say that the same thing happened with me. The unconventionally attractive women were more likely to be insecure, bitter, arrogant or jaded - compared to the conventionally attractive women. Looking at it - the women who I chased did turn out to be insecure, bitter, arrogant or jaded. Even my drama queen friend Cathy back in the day, she was modest, had good interests and looking at her now - she has really made a future for herself. There are some exceptions, of course, but I can't ignore the general pattern. I agree with this completely. I have actually been wanting to say something like this for a while but suspected the level of offensiveness would surpass my usual apparent standard. I don't blame them for being bitter or jaded, for me that's a function of rejection and bad relationships. The irony is I think there are more ladies than guys like this, purely because most guys apparently only seem to want sexual gratification whereas ladies actually seemingly want to invest more. I always though about it like this, the conventionally attractive lady really doesn't suffer much outright rejection if any at all but she might get used, that's a different thing because they always feel attractive. The person who is rejected never feels attractive and never feels wanted so they carry that around with them. A good example of what I tend to do is make myself very helpful so I can get attention from people I like but who I know will never date me, by being helpful I have some use which in turn gets me attention.
chillii Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Hmm, well , can't say as l've seen it as a more of a common thing , just friends or friends of friends or people l've just known l'm talking about here, but yeah l have seen stuff you guys are talking about , but l've seen it in good looking women too. But at any rate, it's all a whatever to me anyway, l know a good woman, a special woman and that has all the things l like in a woman , when l see one , whatever she looks like, and l've never bothered with the rest. Edited March 9, 2020 by chillii
Envy123 Posted March 10, 2020 Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/9/2020 at 2:01 PM, ZA Dater said: I always though about it like this, the conventionally attractive lady really doesn't suffer much outright rejection if any at all but she might get used, that's a different thing because they always feel attractive. The person who is rejected never feels attractive and never feels wanted so they carry that around with them. Yeah, probably. I also feel more comfortable with conventionally attractive women - I feel calm and serene. Whereas, with most other women, I feel like I have to walk on eggshells or they will hurt me. Even with being as respectful as possible, some may block me, call me names or even ridicule me in front of people. The experience from my previous workplace made me biased more towards conventionally attractive women, who were nothing but respectful to me, while the vocal minority really ruined unconventionally attractive women, possibly for life. I know - there are exceptions. But as Cookiesandough said earlier in this thread, experiences with some people of a type can be enough to determine if you are attracted to that whole type.
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