2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: I agree. It's perfectly fine to complain about it. The psychological / mental implications of this will be real, as I said upthread. OCDs will rocket, we'll be used to 'no touch', people will have lost loved ones while in isolation, jobs will be lost, there will be physical damage too from staying inhouse for too long, those who live as part of household are constantly in each other's faces, teleworking is frankly awful, exhausted frontline staff, family crises... but at the same time, staying home means saving lives, so we better get used to it, for the greater good. agreed. but it isn't sustainable. this lock down.
Gaeta Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 US Stock Market is bouncing back up! It's caused by more serious measures being taken in the US to fight the coronavirus. Morgan Standly warns though, if those measures are stopped too early the market will plunge again because lifting the isolation meaures too early would be worse and the curve would peak even higher. Re: Cnn business section.
Gaeta Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: but it isn't sustainable. this lock down. All we need to do is a full isolation of 3 weeks and it's gone.
Beendaredonedat Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: that's fear... that's what causes people to create shortages so doctors and medical staff can't get the proper tools/PPEs to protect themselves while helping others... that's what causes people to blame races of people for this virus... fear. don't let fear get to you. shutting everything down isn't a solution, that's just being scared of everything. Fear? I respect your opinion but I disagree... It's a solution that worked for China and it will, likely work in the west as well. That's what causes people to create shortages? Well again, respect to your opinion but it's the overwhelming need for those "proper tools" that has caused a shortage. Races? I find I must disagree again... It's racism that causes people to blame races for this virus.... Donald Trump fuels it even. Don't let "fear" get to me? I fear the folks that aren't taking this seriously enough more than anything because the are the one's that aren't being "vigilant" or adhering to the Medical communities and scientific communities advise and guidelines.
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: I agree. It's perfectly fine to complain about it. The psychological / mental implications of this will be real, as I said upthread. OCDs will rocket, we'll be used to 'no touch', people will have lost loved ones while in isolation, jobs will be lost, there will be physical damage too from staying inhouse for too long, those who live as part of household are constantly in each other's faces, teleworking is frankly awful, exhausted frontline staff, family crises... but at the same time, staying home means saving lives, so we better get used to it, for the greater good. You know, a week or so before lockdown was enforced, I remember going to the local coffee shop to grab a bottle of water. There was this group of friends, mid to late 20s. One of them was making fun of the whole situation saying that, ''soon people won't even be able to talk to each other face to face,'' and then she laughed, and everyone laughed. I don't get it. This ain't funny at all. I never enjoyed handshaking guys, nor was I ever a fan of the southern European Countries cultural habit of kissing people on the cheek, and they get really into it, like they're getting paid for every full cheek kiss they deliver. From now on, I'm going to be even more gun-shy where it concerns physical contact. 1
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gaeta said: All we need to do is a full isolation of 3 weeks and it's gone. Yeah, I wonder what the death toll would be if EVERYONE stayed inside for 3 weeks? Because unless we're willing to actually do THAT it won't be gone in three weeks. Also, side note - it's not realistically possible to get everyone to do this, even if we deployed the Natl Guard w/ shoot to kill orders. Someone, somewhere, would decide 3 weeks was too long to go without seeing her BF and there we'd be. Do you have food for 3 weeks? I know I do, but I don't think most people can say yes. Meds, if you take them? What about emergency medical care for when someone slips up and cuts themselves in the kitchen, or falls and breaks a hip? They stay home and tough it out the next 20 days too? Do you have a full medical kit? I do, including sutures and antibiotics, but I doubt most people do. So in the realm of realistic solutions, we're not getting rid of this in 3 weeks. Accept that. Edited March 24, 2020 by sothereiwas
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: but it isn't sustainable. this lock down. Well, it's not forever. Here it's a 12-week quarantine for anyone over 75 and those with pre-existing conditions. Awful for those who have to leave loved ones to keep them safe, awful for those who are already lonely, big test of mental strength, but if the WHO and medics worldwide are asking that of us when they risk their own lives to try and save ours, that's what we need to do. No receipt. Edited March 24, 2020 by littleblackheart
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: Here it's a 12-week quarantine for anyone over 75 and those with pre-existing conditions. That seems reasonable, and since we're expecting people to do this we should also make sure they are able to get what they need.
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: Yeah, I wonder what the death toll would be if EVERYONE stayed inside for 3 weeks? The deatlh toll from the virus? well, if those people are infected with the virus, chances are if they aren't young and healthy, the death toll would be quite high. If almost everyone stays inside their home for as long as possible, yes, the virus will have a much lesser effect on the population. In Spain alone, more than 500 people died in 24 hours from the virus. The less people out there on the streets to catch and spread the virus, the less people die from it. 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: Because unless we're willing to actually do THAT it won't be gone in three weeks. That's what we're doing... at least that's what Europe is doing and being smart about. Shame it's not the same in the most powerful Country in the world because the stockmarket is more important than human lives, apparently. 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: Also, side note - it's not realistically possible to get everyone to do this Not everyone, no, but a large majority of people can be convinced to do this, and that's how it's turning out to be in the European states. So why not in the US? Oh, right, because there 's no sense of personal responsability, each state is trying whatever the heck they decide to try, and there is no unity and common goals amongst the leadership of the nation. Muh re-electioh. 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: even if we deployed the Natl Guard w/ shoot to kill orders. Someone, somewhere, would decide 3 weeks was too long to go without seeing her BF and there we'd be So we should forget about quarentine because one woman might not agree with it? So what? One, two, one hundred. When millions of people decide to care about themselves and about each other, things become much better. Come on. If people don't care about their health and about the health of those who are near them, then tell them that if they die they won't be able to get another plate at Mcdonalds or another cup at starbucks, that oughta their selfish mentality right up. 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: . Do you have food for 3 weeks? I have food, water, medication, toilet paper, soap, shampoo, video games, books, movies, everything really, to last me for more than five years. I've always had a hunch that something like this would eventually come out of China or India, with them being almost 2 billion people each, and all, sooner or later something disasterous would have to happen. 4 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: I know I do, but I don't think most people can say yes. Meds, if you take them? What about emergency medical care for when someone slips up and cuts themselves in the kitchen, or falls and breaks a hip? They stay home and tough it out the next 20 days too? Do you have a full medical kit? I do, including sutures and antibiotics, but I doubt most people do. So in the realm of realistic solutions, we're not getting rid of this in 3 weeks. Accept that. yeah, that too. Can figure out my way.
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Azincourt said: The deatlh toll from the virus? No, overall, from starvation, privation, suicide, exposure, etc
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, sothereiwas said: No, overall, from starvation, privation, suicide, exposure, etc Do you believe most people to be so incompotent they can't stock up food and water? Besides, it's not like the govt. expects people to stay 24/7 inside of their houses until this is over. People can leave their houses to go buy food, bread, medication, and to walk their dogs. I just choose not to leave the house at all because I don't have a dog, I have 3 huge german fridges at home stacked up with food each, and I got a whole lotta of canned food, all in all, I can stay inside the house for 5 years, although this won't take nearly as long to be solved.
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Azincourt said: Do you believe most people to be so incompotent they can't stock up food and water? Besides, it's not like the govt. expects people to stay 24/7 inside of their houses until this is over. People can leave their houses to go buy food, bread, medication, and to walk their dogs. I know, and in those conditions the virus won't stop, it will continue to spread at a reduced rate. See the comment I was replying to for context.
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: I know, and in those conditions the virus won't stop, it will continue to spread at a reduced rate. See the comment I was replying to for context. Spreading at a reduced rate is a far better alternative to having it spread by the thousands a day, It gives the health authorities the time they need to come up with a war-time plan to destroy this virus. Doing something is better than saying,'' why bother, someone will break quarentine to see the boyfriend she hasn't seen in 3 weeks.''
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: since we're expecting people to do this we should also make sure they are able to get what they need. That's really the heart of matter. You (general) shouldn't fear losing your livelihood for doing the right thing. What do all these civil liberties and low taxes mean when you still have to choose between money and saving lives at crunch time? That's what a safety net is for - so this isn't even a question. As I said a few times already, I really, really hope this will help us readjust our priorities. My fear, though, is that 'we' will want to isolate even more for 'protection'. We'll see...
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Quote India's prime minister orders lockdown of country of 1.3 billion people for 21 days Quote The 21-day lockdown was set to begin at midnight. Quote Indian health officials have reported 469 actives cases of COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, and 10 deaths. Quote “To save India and every Indian, there will be a total ban on venturing out of your homes,” Modi said, adding that if the county failed to manage the next 21 days, it would be set back by 21 years.
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: You (general) shouldn't fear losing your livelihood for doing the right thing. I feel like we disagree on the mechanics of how that should work but that's OK. 1
LivingWaterPlease Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Redhead14 said: You are missing the point and/or haven't been following the thread closely to understand what I am responding to. Nevertheless, I am following guidelines very strictly!!!! I'm 61 and have an underlying condition that is no a result of me not taking care of myself, etc. I've been in isolation for weeks already and, now because of my A-hole neighbor upstairs who came into my home to do a leak repair from his condo down to mine, I cannot even spend time with my SO. The neighbor didn't tell me until later that he works in the county in our state that has the highest infection rate and is still working in an office with 500 people. IF Trump opens the country up again and the virus is not under control, we are going to have to be living like this forever - we being, older and higher risk people We won't be able to interact in person with our families again because they will still be going about their business all day every day and we won't know if they are carrying it or not! That is Fing Bullsh*t. And, an extremely cavalier attitude toward a group of people who still have lives to live and want to enjoy as much as we can before the country is run to complete and utter sh*t. You're right, Redhead! I haven't been following closely. Didn't realize what had happened to you and am sorry to read that! My handyman got in my face on Friday and it really irritated me. I have anti virus herbs that I take every few days so am not worried, just irritated at his lack of consideration. Also, though, as I mentioned the two women in the store with their hands in their mouths. Behavior like that spreads all kind of diseases. Hard to believe people think so little of their health that they would do that. Am going to post a great article by a guy who has no immune system and his system of staying healthy! It's convincing! Not saying everyone should be unhealthy, but I contend that a person can keep him or herself healthy no matter what others are doing around them, unless coughing in the face of another, etc. I have an extremely weak immune system and never get sick because I have learned ways to stay healthy. But, I know, it's upsetting when an inconsiderate person invades personal boundaries! Wow, this thread is literally galloping!
LivingWaterPlease Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 A young man with no immune system shares his secrets for staying healthy while going out and about in society (if anyone's interested):https://medium.com/@amcarter/i-had-no-immune-system-for-months-after-my-bone-marrow-transplant-1b097f16040c
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, 2BGoodAgain said: counting against the number of people who die of the flu... No, sorry. People don't get tested or autopsies to see if they died from the flu. They cross data, and come up with that... One of my friend's mother had breast cancer, but she died at 91 and not from breast cancer. Cause of death and comorbidities are two different things. But enough. I give up as I've been reported twice already, so I'm going to keep out of sterile polemic.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gaeta said: All we need to do is a full isolation of 3 weeks and it's gone. so everyone for 3 weeks? interesting idea... does everyone have supplies that can last 3 months? what happens when power goes out? or plumbing goes bad? or if there's a fire? I'm seriously asking.. Edited March 24, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain 1
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: so everyone for 3 weeks? interesting idea... does everyone have supplies that can last 3 months? what happens when power goes out? or plumbing goes bad? or if there's a fire? I got supplies that will last me for 5 years even if I splurge them. I know many people who got supplies for 6 months or more. These folks have fathers and grandparents who went through world war I and world war II. They don't forget, and they learned how to survive. Young millennials on the other hand are probably in a bad spot right now, but it's fine, they give Nintendo, starbucks and Nike so much money, I'm sure those companies will have their back. What happens if we're invaded by an outer space alien race? Who cares, just be mindful of what the European govts are saying, as they actually care about their citizens, stay away from people, and stock up on all essentials when you're going out, before things get worse. Edited March 24, 2020 by Azincourt
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Beendaredonedat said: Fear? I respect your opinion but I disagree... It's a solution that worked for China and it will, likely work in the west as well. That's what causes people to create shortages? Well again, respect to your opinion but it's the overwhelming need for those "proper tools" that has caused a shortage. Races? I find I must disagree again... It's racism that causes people to blame races for this virus.... Donald Trump fuels it even. Don't let "fear" get to me? I fear the folks that aren't taking this seriously enough more than anything because the are the one's that aren't being "vigilant" or adhering to the Medical communities and scientific communities advise and guidelines. what worked in china, won't work elsewhere... for several reasons. yes, fear... b/c the people who bought those "needed" tools, according to the CDC, they don't need... the hospitals/medical folk need it. and those who are infected need it, more than the those who aren't. Donald Trump doesn't fuel racism... it existed before him and after him and people will use whatever justification they will to be racist... medical communities are the same ones who one day said "don't use ibuprofen"...then the next days say "they were wrong"... Medical communities like the WHO? who said china was doing such a great job, when they were the ones who let it get out of hand and didn't tell anyone about it until they couldn't hide it anymore? Medical communities are as much susceptible to fear/corruption/politics as anyone... b/c they're human beings too. total shutdown is UNREALISTIC. perhaps short term, but long term it isn't realistic. and look at the numbers.. NYC did a total shut down, and their curve isn't flattening at all...
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, 2BGoodAgain said: i like it.... except.. do you know the avg wait times (before the Covid-19 hit) for an xray, CT scan, etc? X-ray maybe 4-6 hours? Depending on how many people they have to manage. Let's say that with more people staying at home, the less people end up in emergency because of injuries in the workplace, etc. Anyway, they are treating you like in the ER, so times can be delayed, but not weeks, it's still emergency and dealt with within hours. Quote and when they move you up, and other patients with heart attacks/conditions come in... how do you decide? So far, they're treating everybody. I forgot to mention they also administer drugs. But obviously response is nowhere were it was before. In the peak, you could have waited 4 hours for an ambulance. Can you have 2,000 ambulances in the same place at the same time? This is something unexpected, and out of the ordinary. So if you have your own car, you reach the hospital, maybe the ones who don't have a car and need to rely on ambulance are more at risk of getting there too late. But usually the operator deals with urgent cases faster. 4 hours was for milder cases (according to triage).
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: what worked in china, won't work elsewhere... for several reasons. yes, fear... b/c the people who bought those "needed" tools, according to the CDC, they don't need... the hospitals/medical folk need it. and those who are infected need it, more than the those who aren't. Donald Trump doesn't fuel racism... it existed before him and after him and people will use whatever justification they will to be racist... medical communities are the same ones who one day said "don't use ibuprofen"...then the next days say "they were wrong"... Medical communities like the WHO? who said china was doing such a great job, when they were the ones who let it get out of hand and didn't tell anyone about it until they couldn't hide it anymore? Medical communities are as much susceptible to fear/corruption/politics as anyone... b/c they're human beings too. total shutdown is UNREALISTIC. perhaps short term, but long term it isn't realistic. and look at the numbers.. NYC did a total shut down, and their curve isn't flattening at all... Are you seriously saying people shouldn't care about what doctors are telling the population to do and what not to do? 2
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, littleblackheart said: Well, it's not forever. Here it's a 12-week quarantine for anyone over 75 and those with pre-existing conditions. Awful for those who have to leave loved ones to keep them safe, awful for those who are already lonely, big test of mental strength, but if the WHO and medics worldwide are asking that of us when they risk their own lives to try and save ours, that's what we need to do. No receipt. 12 weeks isn't long enough to produce a vaccine. and this is the 2nd week of the quarantine here... and i'm not talking forever... 6 months to a year... is what you need presuming they can find a vaccine for this... the question is, who can stay unemployed for that long? what gov't can pay for that long? the US is considering spending 1-2 trillion dollars and most folk will get $1000 per adult, $500 per child... that amount can help a family for a month, if even that? it's just not logistically possible. 1
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