2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 20 minutes ago, Gaeta said: So what do you suggest of doing? We simply let people die home so they don't flood the emergencies? The purpose of sending people in isolation is to save lives but also to not overload the health system. If you let people go back to work and trust them to not go 'party beach' which they won't listen to, you'll end up with so many sick, so many dead that your healthy system will crash, and you'll have to burry your dead in common grave with no marking. that's a VERY good question. 1) it's time for paid sick leave. some republicans hate it, some democrats love . today's reality, it makes sense. 1 week paid sick leave minimum. If it needs to go beyond 1 week, they need to see a doctor and get a doctor's note.. and mebbe a 2nd paid sick leave week? who knows... 2) people who are medically at risk... meaning they can't just "say they're at risk"... can stay home from work, for the reasons above. 3) people who aren't employed, but at risk, again needs a doctor's note... stay at home.. honestly, if you don't have employment, why are you out? i know, some are retired and rich. 4) some rules for mass gathering should be put out there... no beach parties, no gathering of x number of people, etc.. i don't know all the social gathering examples, but you get the idea. I'm not suggesting we go back to normal like nothing is happening.. there is a crisis abound... we can't put our heads into the sand and pretend it doesn't exist... that won't work. But we make measured public actions to mitigate the situation on hand. it isn't simple or easy. it'll still be uncomfortable and we'll have to change the way we do things... somethings may not ever change... from the norm... but a measure response makes more sense, keep the economy going, so everyone can pay bills, buy food, stop the shortages with the fear buying, until a vaccine is out there. but realize, even IF a vaccine is produced, there is no guarantee that the mortality rate will go down... even at 0.1%, that's a lot of people every year..
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: You still don't get it, do you? I am perfectly willing to and have been isolated for some time and would do it for a little while longer with no complaint. I am not, however, willing to have to live like this for more than a year while we wait for a vaccine. If they even can make one. It's about not being able to spend time with children and family, go to weddings, see and hold the new babies in the family, grand children's birthdays, go out for F ing dinner for more than a year. I am damned entitled to anger. And, the people who want to sacrifice us like dogs are clearly demonstrating that they don't give an F. But thanks for listening -- not. Same. I'm angry that I can't go to the beach, hang out with my friends and their dogs, meet women, go to nightclubs, play soccer. I can't even sit down on a bench and watch people walking by anymore because not even that is allowed anymore. It's like I'm living inside the Space Station, but even those people have company. I've been all alone for months. 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, justwhoiam said: I'd like to point out that the 0.1% is a made up number, obtained using stat models, people don't get tested nor undergo an autopsy. While data now are real, if anything rounded down, because as I said some are dying at home or in facilities and they don't get tested to check if they got Covid 19. it isn't exactly a made up number. it's the number the CDC came up with estimating the number of people who annually get the flu and counting against the number of people who die of the flu... most stats percentages aren't EXACT numbers... they're all estimations based on collected data... i'm sure there's a margin for error.
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, 2BGoodAgain said: even IF a vaccine is produced, there is no guarantee that the mortality rate will go down... even at 0.1%, that's a lot of people every year.. Also, this is likely to mutate and come around every year as a probably less deadly seasonal flu now (thanks Wuhan!) so getting your flu shot is going to be a bigger deal, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that SARS variants are gonna be included in the cocktail for a good time to come. 1
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Nah. At least $2000 per person, a month, until the virus is destroyed. $4000 per household, a mom and a dad.
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 36 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: korea was more prepared or more paranoid by the SARs that happened earlier. Take your pick. So they had many more test kids available. Italy literally ran out of tests... they didn't have as many test kits avail to them.. so they had to make guesses as to where the infections were going...etc.. unfortunately, it didn't work for them and their hospitals, esp the smaller towns...got overwhelmed by the infection rates and deaths. The approach seems to be you enter hospital with those Covid 19 symptoms, you get a chest x-ray. The chest x-ray works in the initial stages of the disease. Afterwards, it won't show anything because lungs get the so-called "glass opacification". If the x-ray doesn't show anything in the lungs, they use CT. Anyway, they test you, and if your symptoms put you at risk, they keep you in hospital, in isolation in the best scenario, in an ICU in the worst scenario. They can use 3 different devices to make you breathe, because your lungs will prevent you from breathing as usual or not let you breathe entirely. They need to turn you around while in bed, and urination and defecation happen in bed (sorry for being graphic, but I guess many people don't understand what it's all about). 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, Beendaredonedat said: By shutting down everything, the ARE mitigating the potential damage. that's fear... that's what causes people to create shortages so doctors and medical staff can't get the proper tools/PPEs to protect themselves while helping others... that's what causes people to blame races of people for this virus... fear. don't let fear get to you. shutting everything down isn't a solution, that's just being scared of everything. 1
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Azincourt said: Same. I'm angry that I can't go to the beach, hang out with my friends and their dogs, meet women, go to nightclubs, play soccer. I can't even sit down on a bench and watch people walking by anymore because not even that is allowed anymore. It's like I'm living inside the Space Station, but even those people have company. I've been all alone for months. The slogan that's being going around "We are all in this together" is complete and utter bullsh*t. A large portion of the population is going to bear the brunt of this. Mass isolation is the recommended "remedy" and we haven't even tried it for a few weeks. I've been fine with it all right up to the point when I've been told that I don't matter. 1
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, 2BGoodAgain said: that's fear... No, that's lack of willingness to pay for what's needed asap. Edited March 24, 2020 by littleblackheart
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Redhead14 said: I've been fine with it all right up to the point when I've been told that I don't matter. I dunno who has been telling you that, but I'm fairly sure it's not true. Of course you matter, it's just that there is no magical silver bullet solution that's gonna fix this in a convenient time frame, and your circumstances put you at high risk if you get infected, so folks want to take more care with your case. Because you do matter. I know that sounds like "it's for your own good", but it really is ...
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, 2BGoodAgain said: that's fear... that's what causes people to create shortages so doctors and medical staff can't get the proper tools/PPEs to protect themselves while helping others... that's what causes people to blame races of people for this virus... fear. don't let fear get to you. shutting everything down isn't a solution, that's just being scared of everything. Yeah, when you post your medical degree and show your experience, history and background in virus management, I'll take comfort in your opinion.
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: I've been fine with it all right up to the point when I've been told that I don't matter. I've obviously missed something. Who says that? 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 33 minutes ago, Azincourt said: When an Italian citizen living in Italy knows more about the state of the economy in the states than the President does, you know something's wrong haha... be nice... i don't know if the President of our country knows much about how our economy works.. he does know how americans think, though.. and he knows we'll want his head(the side that's still kinda fair to him and don't already want his head prior to him getting elected)... if we have a down economy. as Clinton once said.. ."it's the economy, stupid"... i think i may have misquoted him.
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: I've obviously missed something. Who says that? By I, I mean my age/risk group. Read back at some of these posts. Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14
Azincourt Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: The slogan that's being going around "We are all in this together" is complete and utter bullsh*t. A large portion of the population is going to bear the brunt of this. Mass isolation is the recommended "remedy" and we haven't even tried it for a few weeks. I've been fine with it all right up to the point when I've been told that I don't matter. The problem is that the politicians, the bankers, the lawyers, the doctors and everyone with the knowledge and the decades of experience to back up what they say, forget that we're human beings and we need social contact. The loneliness has been mitigated by long hours spent talking to my parents and friends through the internet and phone, but nothing beats face to face social interactions. But we deal with it and bear it down, because that is what we need to do and that's what we are going to do until it's no longer necessary. That doesn't mean we can't complain about it. 1 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 20 minutes ago, Gaeta said: No it cannot not work the same here, people in China better listen or they go in jail, get tortured, or mysteriously disappear. In Western Countries you cannot for anyone of anything and it's how you end up having to call in the army and shut the country from coast to coast. hm, the army here isn't called in... at least, not how you think of it. in the US, the army is sending their medical staff in... and of course some guards to protect the said hospitals/medical staff. They are military, after all. like 3 medical ships with their medical supplies/beds/staff. So far, no martial law has been declared yet... and i say yet, b/c it's highly dependent if the general population gets weary of this lock down or not.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: Like what? i like Florida's approach. though, they quarantining anyone from NY, NJ, and Connecticut(i could be wrong about this one)... for 2 weeks, had NYC mayor in fumes. hahahaha....
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: Also, this is likely to mutate and come around every year as a probably less deadly seasonal flu now (thanks Wuhan!) so getting your flu shot is going to be a bigger deal, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that SARS variants are gonna be included in the cocktail for a good time to come. i honestly have no idea about this one.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, justwhoiam said: The approach seems to be you enter hospital with those Covid 19 symptoms, you get a chest x-ray. The chest x-ray works in the initial stages of the disease. Afterwards, it won't show anything because lungs get the so-called "glass opacification". If the x-ray doesn't show anything in the lungs, they use CT. Anyway, they test you, and if your symptoms put you at risk, they keep you in hospital, in isolation in the best scenario, in an ICU in the worst scenario. They can use 3 different devices to make you breathe, because your lungs will prevent you from breathing as usual or not let you breathe entirely. They need to turn you around while in bed, and urination and defecation happen in bed (sorry for being graphic, but I guess many people don't understand what it's all about). i like it.... except.. do you know the avg wait times (before the Covid-19 hit) for an xray, CT scan, etc? i don't know about italy, but in the US.. .unless it's the ER(Emergency room).... you wait a week or so for an Xray... longer for a CT... obviously, if it's more seriuos, they move you up. and when they move you up, and other patients with heart attacks/conditions come in... how do you decide? yes, one or dozen... throw in 100? yeah... it sounds good in practice... but reality is.. most small towns prob don't have it as readily avail, if at all.
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Azincourt said: That doesn't mean we can't complain about it. I agree. It's perfectly fine to complain about it. The psychological / mental implications of this will be real, as I said upthread. OCDs will rocket, we'll be used to 'no touch', people will have lost loved ones while in isolation, jobs will be lost, there will be physical damage too from staying inhouse for too long, those who live as part of household are constantly in each other's faces, teleworking is frankly awful, exhausted frontline staff, family crises... but at the same time, staying home means saving lives, so we better get used to it, for the greater good. Edited March 24, 2020 by littleblackheart 1
sothereiwas Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: i honestly have no idea about this one. Well, I read that somewhere from someone who was presented as an authority, and the SARS/MERS/SARS-COV-2 trifecta seems to bear that out a bit.
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 56 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: so we have to see how Italy turns out... and you'll prob get a more accurate number, infection rates, mortality rates... I gave you the numbers, 10% mortality rate among those positive to the virus. Among those who end up in hospital? Much higher (25% at least) Our curve is going down though. On page 89 of this thread, I posted 2 different graphs. The U.S. has exceeded Iran in deaths per day. And numbers are going up. Italy's deaths are going down, that's the effect of our lockdown. And we're trying to save people in the South, that is poorer, less organized, with crappy hospitals in some cases. It's working, slowly but it's working. 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: Yeah, when you post your medical degree and show your experience, history and background in virus management, I'll take comfort in your opinion. I'm not trying to comfort you, i'm expressing my opinions... i never said i was a doctor or had some medical degree.. i expect most people of such professions are busy doing their jobs... Most people who help other people in the other forums aren't professionals either.. well, most of them, i think. They're just trying to help out or state their ideas/opinions. Nothing wrong with that. and anything said here... anyone with a brain or two, should take it with a grain of salt and think things thru with your own knowledge and experiences and make your own sound judgments.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, justwhoiam said: I gave you the numbers, 10% mortality rate among those positive to the virus. Among those who end up in hospital? Much higher (25% at least) Our curve is going down though. On page 89 of this thread, I posted 2 different graphs. The U.S. has exceeded Iran in deaths per day. And numbers are going up. Italy's deaths are going down, that's the effect of our lockdown. And we're trying to save people in the South, that is poorer, less organized, with crappy hospitals in some cases. It's working, slowly but it's working. thanks for the stats. I haven't read up on the numbers yet. I'll look it up on some medical journals or stats.. i'm sure other people will be greatly interested in them. But 10% mortality rate is pretty high.. what's the total infection number in Italy? Separated by age group, pre-existing respiration conditions or the like?
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: You still don't get it, do you? I am perfectly willing to and have been isolated for some time and would do it for a little while longer with no complaint. I am not, however, willing to have to live like this for more than a year while we wait for a vaccine. If they even can make one. It's about not being able to spend time with children and family, go to weddings, see and hold the new babies in the family, grand children's birthdays, go out for F ing dinner for more than a year. I am damned entitled to anger. And, the people who want to sacrifice us like dogs are clearly demonstrating that they don't give an F. But thanks for listening -- not. you alright? you seem angry/upset. I hope you feel better... i had to cancel weddings travel, my niece's 5th year birthday...i never missed one...until now.. she doesn't understand why i can't come, but we all have our priorities. I know, 1st world problems.. honestly, i think Trump should announce national camping week... take your families, go camp somewhere.... of course, knowing us... we'll prob create forest fires.. everywhere....lol... Edited March 24, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain 1 1
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