Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Azincourt]

4 minutes ago, justwhoiam said:

If the world closes up to the US, do you think your American economy will go up? Are you counting only on domestic demand?

Less than 156 million people work in the USA, out of 204 million of people who could work (18-65 years old). That means 24% of adults aged 18-65 are either sick, unemployed, homeless, do-nothing or rely on someone else's income. More than 49 million of people in your country live below poverty line = ARE POOR.

You import way MORE (150%+) than you export, so that means that the demand of your population exceeds your domestic offer. Your debt has tripled in just 15 years.

What f economy are your talking about? Wake up, man.

 

When an Italian citizen living in Italy knows more about the state of the economy in the states than the President does, you know something's wrong

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

the point i'm making is that, we mitigate the potential damage.. not shut down everything.. it makes no sense to do that when the vaccine is potentially 6 months to a year from now... 1-2tril dollars and they can only manage to give everyone 1,000$... plus $500 per kid. That's it, for 1-2trillion dollars...  we gotta last 6months to a year...

So what do you suggest of doing? We simply let people die home so they don't flood the emergencies? The purpose of sending people in isolation is to save lives but also to not overload the health system. If you let people go back to work and trust them to not go 'party beach' which they won't listen to, you'll end up with so many sick, so many dead that your healthy system will crash, and you'll have to burry your dead in common grave with no marking. 

[Redhead14]

Everyone here who is 60 and up and/or with a condition that would likely make it so being infected is lethal for us, our lives are over.  We have to deal with being in isolation for 18 months, if they come up with a vaccine and longer if not.  We worked hard all our lives and paid taxes and earned our way to this time in our lives when we could look forward to retiring and being retired and relaxing and enjoying our twilight years.  Now we will be prisoners in our own homes.  And, nobody give a sh*t.  God bless us all.   F the rest of them.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Would you still think it was a fair price to pay if it was YOUR business that closed? 
 

I'd prefer my company to close than my mother dying. In a heartbeat. 

[pepperbird]

Just now, 2BGoodAgain said:

why does it have to be such extremes? no one is saying throw out granny into the streets....such a false argument, throwing out extremes like that.

and yes, the economy WILL kick back... after they've laid off people... it's easy to say the economy will kick back for those who aren't at risk of losing their jobs... some people don't have jobs that are fluid... where they can easily find another job, or secure at the job they're at... some people, when they lose that job.. it's gone forever. or a very long time.

The public health impacts of a bad economy can be crippling. Suicides, homelessness , poor health. How many will die from those?

Does any politician have a long game plan here? It;s pretty hard to believe they don't. My dad worked in the field of infectious disease as a consultant for yeas. When I was a kid, I used to read his "Journal of Emerging Infectious Diseases"(nerd) and pandemics were one of the most common topics. That was decades ago! How can we as a species be this unprepared given we have a lot of knowledge?

[Azincourt]

1 minute ago, Redhead14 said:

Everyone here who is 60 and up and/or with a condition that would likely make it so being infected is lethal for us, our lives are over.  We have to deal with this for 18 months, if they come up with a vaccine and longer if not.  We worked hard all our lives and paid taxes and earned our way to this time in our lives when we could look forward to retiring and being retired and relaxing and enjoying our twilight years.  Now we will be prisoners in our own homes.  And, nobody give a sh*t.  God bless us all.   F the rest of them.

Just the people who are 60? Being young doesn't make the guy invulnerable. There's lots of young people walking around with medical conditions that can prove fatal if they catch the virus, and what if the virus mutates and starts to target ''perfectly'' healthy young people? 

Honestly, I've been enclosured in my home for months since this began, back when the first Chinese cases go leaked by the Chinese doctors. Granted,  I'm tired of staying home all day and all night  - but it beats the alternative.

[justwhoiam]

30 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

the 0.1% is the avg flu mortality rate. I was rather surprised by the number, tbh. I didn't think it was that high. the media never reports that tens of thousands of people die every year to the flu in the US alone.

I'd like to point out that the 0.1% is a made up number, obtained using stat models, people don't get tested nor undergo an autopsy. While data now are real, if anything rounded down, because as I said some are dying at home or in facilities and they don't get tested to check if they got Covid 19.

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Redhead14 said:

Everyone here who is 60 and up and/or with a condition that would likely make it so being infected is lethal for us, our lives are over. 

That's pretty dramatic. 

Maybe spend a little of those golden years managing that anger?

Or blame china?

Because this virus is here, and being furious won't fix it, and locking everyone away will not fix it. 

[Redhead14]

2 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Just the people who are 60? Being young doesn't make the guy invulnerable. There's lots of young people walking around with medical conditions that can prove fatal if they catch the virus, and what if the virus mutates and starts to target ''perfectly'' healthy young people? 

Honestly, I've been enclosured in my home for months since this began, back when the first Chinese cases go leaked by the Chinese doctors. Granted,  I'm tired of staying home all day and all night  - but it beats the alternative.

I said and/or with a condition that would make being infected lethal . . . I included that group of people and have been all along throughout this entire thread.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14

[2BGoodAgain]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

So some small businesses don't have the back to survive but the economy will still get back on track. Statistics shows that 25% of small businesses will have to file bankruptcy after this, but something like 50% of small businesses don't make it to 5 years in good times anyway. 

So again, some small businesses won't make it, some people will have to find other jobs after this....That is worth how  many life you think? The economy is not worth letting die thousands and thousands of people. 

There are families out there that have lost 3-4 members, I heard of a man losing his mother, sibblings and his wife....do you think he cares about the economy?

you're right.. a person who has lost a member or several members of his family don't care about anything at this point... but most of us, won't be that person.

statistically, even if 5 or 10% of the population knows someone who had died to this virus... 90-95% wont know this pain.. other than the pain of losing someone to death... i think that's 100% of us... but still, the living has to go on living...

i'm not suggesting we discard the potentially at risk... as i've said before, we should give those at risk the option to stay at home and give THEM the money that we're suggesting giving everyone... and in that way, we can maintain this for 6month to a year or whenever they find a vaccine... provide hours where they alone can shop for groceries, etc... for those who may lose jobs, extended unemployment... i can't imagine the dept that has to investigate the fraud this will create... but we can deal with that later...

as for small businesses... yes, the rate of small business failures are high... but understand there are families, children, grandparents who are behind people who are these small businesses... who throw in everything they have to try to make a living... i'm not one of those people, but i understand the risk they're taking... i'm iffy about any stimulus supporting them... then again, i'm def sure i'm against stimulus supporting the bigger businesses like airlines, etc... 

 

[sothereiwas]

Just now, justwhoiam said:

I'd like to point out that the 0.1% is a made up number, obtained using stat models, people don't get tested nor undergo an autopsy. While data now are real, if anything rounded down, because as I said some are dying at home or in facilities and they don't get tested to check if they got Covid 19.

And many got a 'flu' or ran a little fever for a few days and got better, and are never tallied on the OTHER (survivor) side of the stats. Those who died and were never noticed are unlikely to outnumber those who had a fever and got better. 

[JustGettingBy]

2 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

The public health impacts of a bad economy can be crippling. Suicides, homelessness , poor health. How many will die from those?

Does any politician have a long game plan here? It;s pretty hard to believe they don't. My dad worked in the field of infectious disease as a consultant for yeas. When I was a kid, I used to read his "Journal of Emerging Infectious Diseases"(nerd) and pandemics were one of the most common topics. That was decades ago! How can we as a species be this unprepared given we have a lot of knowledge?

 

Politicians have no reason to have a long term game plan. If someone's term ends in 2 years and the you know what hits the fan in 3 years due to their bad planning, everyone will blame the new leader. 

[Beendaredonedat]

14 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

the point i'm making is that, we mitigate the potential damage.. not shut down everything.

By shutting down everything, the ARE mitigating the potential damage.

[pepperbird]

4 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Everyone here who is 60 and up and/or with a condition that would likely make it so being infected is lethal for us, our lives are over.  We have to deal with being in isolation for 18 months, if they come up with a vaccine and longer if not.  We worked hard all our lives and paid taxes and earned our way to this time in our lives when we could look forward to retiring and being retired and relaxing and enjoying our twilight years.  Now we will be prisoners in our own homes.  And, nobody give a sh*t.  God bless us all.   F the rest of them.

I'm one of those people who is at a high risk of dying from this. I have systemic scleroderma, sjogren;s syndrome and lupus. My lungs are shot, my heart is bad as are my kidneys and skin is a mess. I get ulcers that don't heal, have had a finger tip removed due to gangrene and ahve days when getting out of bed is too much work. I'm waiting for an autologous stem cell transplant.

I refuse to let those diseases keep me down. My son needs me to be here for him. It's the same with covid-19. If I get bogged down in fear I can;t move. I can't let that happen.

[2BGoodAgain]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Yes we cannot trust China's number, but one thing is sure, China was downplaying their infected cases and their death. That is bad news for us. 

downplaying, yes... but b/c we don't know if any of those numbers are correct, we can't know if it goes up or down. Also, they shut down an entire city... until the infection rates went down.... that's how they maintained their country from getting infected. 

the scenario in italy and the US are totally different. it's everywhere... there IS no containment. So what worked in Wuhan, China... can't work here. 

[littleblackheart]

3 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

How can we as a species be this unprepared given we have a lot of knowledge?

Because 'we' are not prepared to pay the financial cost of ensuring the 'economy' survives these pandemics at minimal risk. That's all. 

[Azincourt]

1 minute ago, sothereiwas said:

That's pretty dramatic. 

How is her reaction pretty dramatic?

Who wants to be locked up in one's house, only being allowed to leave to buy food or to buy medication? Or to walk the dog?

But we follow the rules, because that's what we should do, and the quicker people are to abide to these rules laid down, the faster we'll get out of the sitatuion we're all in.

Her reaction is perfectly natural.

1 minute ago, sothereiwas said:

Maybe spend a little of those golden years managing that anger?

Like you should spend a little of those middle-aged years to develop respect for your elders?

 

 

1 minute ago, sothereiwas said:

Or blame china?

 

And what will that do? All of you are afraid of China. China owns the world, basically.

1 minute ago, sothereiwas said:

Because this virus is here, and being furious won't fix it, and locking everyone away will not fix it. 

Oh, yes it will.  Keeping people in their homes slows down the speed at which the virus spreads, giving the doctors and the hospitals breathing room to work with what they have, to take care of the people who are already on those hospital beds, and to come up with a viable vaccine to cure the problem.

 

[sothereiwas]

4 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Oh, yes it will.  Keeping people in their homes slows down the speed at which the virus spreads

Her complaint is about being restricted to home. How is slowing the spread of the virus addressing that specific concern?

I agree, slowing the spread to the point where it never overwhelms the care capacity is a good move, but that's not what SHE complained about. Complaint was "I'm tired of being locked up". A lot of people are. Just because she's retired and feels bad about her limited time left being stolen from her or whatever doesn't make her angst any more important than anyone else's problems. 

It's a tough time, buck up campers. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by sothereiwas

[2BGoodAgain]

14 minutes ago, justwhoiam said:

If the world closes up to the US, do you think your American economy will go up? Are you counting only on domestic demand?

Less than 156 million people work in the USA, out of 204 million of people who could work (18-65 years old). That means 24% of adults aged 18-65 are either sick, unemployed, homeless, do-nothing or rely on someone else's income. More than 49 million of people in your country live below poverty line = ARE POOR.

You import way MORE (150%+) than you export, so that means that the demand of your population exceeds your domestic offer. Your debt has tripled in just 15 years.

What f economy are your talking about? Wake up, man.

 

oh gosh.. the US has closed up against the world.. i don't think you understand the American mentality... We don't think globally. I know, it's arrogant and prob one of the biggest angst against americans.. I knowledge that... we think about me me me. or us us us? no, i think it's more me me me before us us us. we do get united here and there on occassion, but remember we're a country of rebels... that's how we started, our constitution is based on that, even though we try to look civilized today.

at any rate... we don't care much about the outside world... that's why we tour there, but we prefer to live here... same for everywhere else.. well, most everywhere else... people in mexico who are doing well there... don't wanna leave it for the US.. only those who aren't doing well there and prefer something better... 

at any rate, though it isn't very fair and i agree... the markets won't survive without the US, b/c the markets are entrenched in us. it isn't that we produce anything significant.. ideas, research, etc... but we don't produce anything. you're right. Oh .. there's teslas, but most products we import, you're right.

why do you think China/Russian etc hates the US as much as they work with us? They want the markets to revolve around them... who knows, someday it may. But for now, the markets are entrenched in the US.. plus, we owe money to so many countries... if we go down, we basically take the world with us. I know, arrogance, but it's prob true.

so now that we've got that out in the air... i'm suggesting we do this for every country.. keep the economy going until a vaccine can come out... take measured approaches to solving this crisis, and depending on what we find out about this disease, make more measured actions... until we beat this thing.

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

the scenario in italy and the US are totally different. it's everywhere... there IS no containment. So what worked in Wuhan, China... can't work here. 

No it cannot not work the same here, people in China better listen or they go in jail, get tortured, or mysteriously disappear. In Western Countries you cannot for anyone of anything and it's how you end up having to call in the army and shut the country from coast to coast.

[littleblackheart]

2 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

take measured approaches to solving this crisis, and depending on what we find out about this disease, make more measured actions... until we beat this thing.

Like what?

[2BGoodAgain]

18 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I keep going back to how my PM refused to do pretty much anything because it was considered "offensive", at least in his mind. When even people coming back from China are concerned there's no real screening at the airport, when a sick woman can get through and then die four hours later, the system needs a reboot.

agreed. we may need to make some sort of adjustment moving forward.

[Redhead14]

 

 

8 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Her complaint is about being restricted to home. How is slowing the spread of the virus addressing that specific concern?

I agree, slowing the spread to the point where it never overwhelms the care capacity is a good move, but that's not what SHE complained about. Complaint was "I'm tired of being locked up". A lot of people are. Just because she's retired and feels bad about her limit time left being stolen from her or whatever doesn't make her angst any more important than anyone else's problems. 

It's a tough time, buck up campers. 

  You still don't get it, do you?  I am perfectly willing to and have been isolated for some time and would do it for a little while longer with no complaint.  I am not, however, willing to have to live like this for more than a year while we wait for a vaccine.  If they even can make one.  It's about not  being able to spend time with children and family, go to weddings, see and hold the new babies in the family, grand children's birthdays, go out for F ing dinner for more than a year.  I am damned entitled to anger.  And, the people who want to sacrifice us like dogs are clearly demonstrating that they don't give an F.  But thanks for listening -- not.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14

[pepperbird]

1 minute ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

agreed. we may need to make some sort of adjustment moving forward.

A woman my husband works with is from China, not far form Bejing (I think). She went home to visit family, and when she cam,e back in mid-february, she was surprised there was no real screening.She got so angry she even called her MLA to complain. Knowing her, whoever was at the end of that call got an earful,

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

I am not, however, willing to have to live like this for more than a year while we wait for a vaccine.

And yet that's probably the smart move, and probably what's going to be the smart move, even IF we all shut down and decimate the economy, because unless the people who make sure you're fed and have power and water and so on stop doing that (in which case you have less to worry about, permanently) the virus will still spread around, just slower. The smart move is to take advantage of being one of the at risk groups and get a vaccination when it's made available. You and others at risk should be made a priority for this, along with people in critical positions like medicine and so on.