beatcuff Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 1:17 PM, Redhead14 said: So why now, why this ONE? ...It really doesn't matter what kind of logic and data a person wants to apply, the fact remains that we are where we are and we need to deal with it. exactly, don't let the facts get in the way of panic. you have been living with the seasonal flu your entire life, that has taken MORE LIVES every single year of your existence than this one. but that does not fit the narrative so we will overlook that. look at the reaction to swine, mers, bird, ebola: nearly nothing but thanks to twitter, instagram, facetime, tiktoc - ANYONE can say anything. posts become facts: without support. i saw on the news a person (obviously facetime) about how dire the situation was in the hospital. no mention of who this person was, what hospital. it fact it was such a close up you could not be certain it was even in a hospital. but it was exciting. On 3/21/2020 at 2:00 PM, elaine567 said: Because this one has the capacity to completely overwhelm our health services. The potential numbers badly affected are huge. Those requiring ventilators, may need days or even weeks of intensive care. Some even then may have permanent lung damage. ICUs soon fill up with sick people. One UK hospital ICU is already full of Covid-19 patients and we haven't got near the peak yet.. If you can't breathe and theres no ventilators available then you die unfortunately... If ICUs are full of Covid-19 patients, then where does anyone else who may need mechanical ventilation go? again look at the seasonal flu numbers... Covid pales... On 3/21/2020 at 2:27 PM, justwhoiam said: Hard to say as this is kind of unprecedented in our modern times. swine, mers, bird, ebola On 3/21/2020 at 5:28 PM, justwhoiam said: 0.9% of people dying were young and healthy people. Bad luck, uh? Out of 10,000 death, that'd mean 90 people. 180 for 20,000 deaths. But well... you know what? The virus can get more aggressive as it's spreading around, and that 0.9% could be 2%, doubling the numbers. You just need to hope you're not gonna be in the fatality count. And oh, it's quite random. seriously? 0.9 to 2... why stop there, do i here 4? 10? and why would only the young and healthy grow? never let the facts... viruses have been with us 'forever' and are around us all everyday. this will pass like all the others. yup some will die and even some young ones. then again far more die in automobile accidents - should we ban those as well?
Woggle Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: The solution model that some proposed here, is to confine the older folks and people with underlying conditions, etc. and allow everyone else to roam freely. So that means that the older folks and other people who need to be concerned will be isolating forever??? If everyone else continues to be exposed and carry it around amongst themselves, regardless of whether it makes them sick or not, means the older people will never be able to live their lives the way they want to or be out and about. Lots of older folks are active and even still contributing to the community and/or working, etc. Younger people need to get it through their thick skulls that while they have a better chance at recovery they are not immune. My wife and I are in our 40s and in good health yet we have no issue isolating. We get a little bit of cabin fever but it is worth it. If we can do it why are others having such a hard time? The generation that invented netflix and chill just has to go out and spread the virus.
Author gaius Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: The solution model that some proposed here, is to confine the older folks and people with underlying conditions, etc. and allow everyone else to roam freely. So that means that the older folks and other people who need to be concerned will be isolating forever??? If everyone else continues to be exposed and carry it around amongst themselves, regardless of whether it makes them sick or not, means the older people will never be able to live their lives the way they want to or be out and about. Lots of older folks are active and even still contributing to the community and/or working, etc. Unfortunately, given the current situation we're in, that might actually be the only sensible solution. Even if the Federal government was to lock down the entire country for 2-4 weeks, Americans have consistently showed they don't give a damn and are going to do whatever they want. So it's unlikely that would cause the virus to go away. Just brutalize the economy. This country might not ever be able to even get testing to the level we need it. At this point we might just have to let the virus work itself out, hope for the best and collect the corpses. 1
Woggle Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 It is a disgrace that the so called best country in the world let it get to this point. We can bomb other countries into the stone age but we can't do our best to mitigate the damage from a pandemic. For god's sake doctors are having to go to home depot for gloves and masks. It is truly disgraceful. We need to start fining people who are out for anything that isn't 100% necessary. 2
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Frankly, I don't have an issue staying in. I don't really want to be around people who have the kinds of attitudes I've been hearing about. Let them have at it. My grandmother had a saying -- "the world is going to hell in a handbag". She didn't know how right she was . . . but hey, the handbag will be Gucci at least. Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: Noone said Govt, have the best ideas but anyone with an inking of what a pandemic actually means would not be arguing against shutting down to limit spread. Had it been up to me I would have shut everything down hard weeks ago like the South Koreans did and tested every man and his dog so I knew exactly where the virus was and where it wasn't. Now it is essentially too late and we are playing catch up. Oh dear, they shut down your gym... SMH south korea DIDNT shut everything down. they found the people with possible covid-19, tested them and isolated them. Rest of korea was working their ass off, watching TV, etc.. they even had an app that'd let you the number of cases of covid-19 confirmation so you could avoid certain areas.
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, beatcuff said: exactly, don't let the facts get in the way of panic. you have been living with the seasonal flu your entire life, that has taken MORE LIVES every single year of your existence than this one. but that does not fit the narrative so we will overlook that. And, yet, entire governments are following extreme measures and protocols for this one. Minimize it all you want. Denial and dissociation can be useful tools for managing stress. But heavily relying on it prevents reality from be addressed effectively. What is your theory as to why the entire world is treating this so seriously? 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 40 minutes ago, justwhoiam said: Just hope you are in the most category. But maybe not. Healthy people end up in intensive care. No intensive care available? You die. That's what it is. I have posted a video (page 85), it's a basketball player that couldn't breathe by himself anymore and needed a respirator. If where you're at all respirators are being used and none left for you, and you happen to need one to survive, bye bye. most people WILL be fine. but statistically, this virus has a MUCH higher rate of mortality than the worst flu. and supposedly, very bad for chronic respiratory symptom folks and in lieu elderly folk... last count was 3.4% but it may have gone up since then or down... worst flu has a mortality rate of 0.1%... so yeah, people are afraid, but most people WILL be okay. they may get sick, they may have crazy fever/symptoms... but they'll survive.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: Noone said Govt, have the best ideas but anyone with an inking of what a pandemic actually means would not be arguing against shutting down to limit spread. Had it been up to me I would have shut everything down hard weeks ago like the South Koreans did and tested every man and his dog so I knew exactly where the virus was and where it wasn't. Now it is essentially too late and we are playing catch up. Oh dear, they shut down your gym... SMH the gym had hand sanitizers and wipes. the idiots who got scared bought all the ones from the stores... the ones who freaked out when the= gov't shut down the state. as for the spread... did it work? last time i read, the infected doubled in one day.
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: And, yet, entire governments are following extreme measures and protocols for this one. Minimize it all you want. Denial and dissociation can be useful tools for managing stress. But heavily relying on it prevents reality from be addressed effectively. What is your theory as to why the entire world is treating this so seriously? hmm... you shouldn't treat it as nothing, but you shouldn't freak out about it either.... right now, the world is freaking out.. and not looking at it with perspective. That's what the chatter is about... measured responses, instead of causing panic and crazy shortages, that doctors and medical professionals can't even get masks or gloves or sanitizers... that's the problem. and honestly, if everyone jumps off the cliff, do you as well, or do you think things out and realize, just b/c everyone is doing it, doesn't make it right...
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, Woggle said: It is a disgrace that the so called best country in the world let it get to this point. We can bomb other countries into the stone age but we can't do our best to mitigate the damage from a pandemic. For god's sake doctors are having to go to home depot for gloves and masks. It is truly disgraceful. We need to start fining people who are out for anything that isn't 100% necessary. dunno if i'd call us the best country... more like the most fortunate country... and yes, i wish we could be a better people, but people are inherently selfish and scared... hence why i'm harsher on the gov't for freaking the people out. tell the truth, but when you shut down cities/states... it WILL cause panic and shortages...
Woggle Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 The seasonal flu has not shut down entire countries in my lifetime and we as a society know how to deal with. There are also shots that you can get every year to protect yourself. We have a system in place to fight it while there is no system in place in place to fight Covid 19. There should be Manhattan Project level type of operation to find a vaccine and treatment for this but I don't see one. This country is incapable of doing anything anymore except for making the rich richer and bombing Middle Eastern countries.
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: they found the people They didn't just find them; they relentlessly tested every last person for free. Mass testing is the way to go, imo. 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, beatcuff said: again look at the seasonal flu numbers... Covid pales... well, Covid... the number of deaths pales in comparison to seasonal flu... but the rate of mortality is much higher... that's what's causing some of the panic and alarm. So if you give it time and the fact that there's no vaccine for it, if the rate of mortality continues, you're gonna have WAY more # of deaths from Covid than you ever could with the seasonal flu. also transmission... people with flu usually have symptoms early on, but with the covid, they can show absolutely no symptoms other people can tell... and pass on the infection. So though i'm asking for a measured response from our governments... you can't deny the potential deaths resulting from Covid... having said THAT, i still think you have to keep the economy going... isolate home those at risk, and the rest keep moving forward and keep the economy running.. i love the shopping hour for those at risk... that's how you keep the economy going, being humane to the ones at risk, and mitigate the stress on the health system. and for the LOVE of everyone.... stop sticking your extremities into your orificies or anyone else's orifices, until you've SANITIZED them! soap them for 20secs, etc... Edited March 24, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain 1
2BGoodAgain Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: They didn't just find them; they relentlessly tested every last person for free. Mass testing is the way to go, imo. no they didn't. privacy laws in S.Korea aren't huge... they used cell tracking, cameras, car cameras, etc to find people who were potentially infected and tested them and anyone around them....tracked them down, etc, etc etc. there are millions of people in korea... they didn't test everyone...... they tested around 225,000 people... +/- a few thousand, i'm sure.... as much as that number sounds like everyone, it was testing anyone who may have made contact with infected persons. also, koreans are notoriously... social based... they follow directions, for all their anarchy at times.. Edited March 24, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain
Redhead14 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: . isolate home those at risk, and the rest keep moving forward and keep the economy running.. For crying out loud!!!! How long would "those at risk" have to remain isolated!??? Jesus. As if older people and others don't have lives. If everyone else is just going about their lives and carrying this thing around with them ad infinitum, "those at risk" would never be able to interact with anyone ever or for at least a year or so until a vaccine is made. That's an incredibly selfish, heartless and greedy attitude. Like I said in an earlier post - I don't want to be around the people with this attitude anyway. I'll be OK locked up until they find a vaccine. Unbelievable. Edited March 24, 2020 by Redhead14 4
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 37 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: no they didn't. privacy laws in S.Korea aren't huge... they used cell tracking, cameras, car cameras, etc to find people who were potentially infected and tested them and anyone around them....tracked them down, etc, etc etc. there are millions of people in korea... they didn't test everyone...... they tested around 225,000 people... +/- a few thousand, i'm sure.... as much as that number sounds like everyone, it was testing anyone who may have made contact with infected persons. also, koreans are notoriously... social based... they follow directions, for all their anarchy at times.. Nearly 20,000 people are being tested every day for coronavirus in South Korea, more people per capita than anywhere else in the world, according to the BBC. Parts of Italy have started to do that too. They had a test ready in 17 days, made it free, quick and easily available (no need to go to a hospital, you can rock up to a testing facility set up in a parking lot, says the article). Imo, this makes it a lot easier to comply to gvt rules (that apparently Koreans are much better at doing than us in Europe, who are not particularly disciplined).
littleblackheart Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 38 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: If everyone else is just going about their lives and carrying this thing around with them ad infinitum, "those at risk" would never be able to interact with anyone ever or for at least a year or so until a vaccine is made. That's an incredibly selfish, heartless and greedy attitude. That, plus we've seen countless accounts of not 'at risk' people dying from this. This virus seemingly doesn't care that much how healthy you are, it doesn't just zoom in on the elderly and vulnerable. The only way to deal with it is to do it as a society. The economy can wait. We've been accustomed to believe that money is everything, maybe now is the time to put people first and remember what working as a society means. 2
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 hours ago, sothereiwas said: This is clearly a big deal. We need to make sure we don't make it worse than it has to be. China, with over a billion people, has had around 80,000 cases and over 3000 dead. They claim the worst is over for them. Perspective. 3,270 deaths so far, but they're in month 3 of their lockdown, and a very very strict one.
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said: We're not used to a flu-like virus that hits higher than 0.1% mortality rate... Not sure what you mean by your reference to 0.1%. Right now, mortality rate is 4% in China (if their data are true). More like 10.5% in Italy. Let's see what will happen in the other countries. UK trend is already going higher than Italy's. 25% or so seem to end up in intensive care.
Woggle Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 These next few weeks or months will expose all the cracks in our society on every level. Now that we have a real and serious crisis instead of the trivial crap we as a society constantly fight about many people just don't know how to deal with it. We have been falling apart for a long time as a society. A couple weeks ago I freaked out saying that I don't want to die and while I still don't I am ready to do whatever it takes so that myself and my loved ones are not affected by this. If I have to live like this until 2021 then so be it. The actual virus does scare me but I am ready to make any adjustments I have to. 1
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said: yeah, but they shut down a whole city. i think basically the whole city got infected, b/c they wouldn't let anyone out. the virus basically had no one left to infect....we need journalist to go in there and see if anyone is allowed out of the city, find out the real rates of infection/deaths/age/gender/underlining conditions... etc. Well, what went on in China needs to be investigated... I'm still quite confused. We had Chinese people on cruises and downtown Rome infected. Probably in Lombardy too, just they didn't develop symptoms and that ruined us in the North. I think some people from Wuhan were around... China knew about this aggressive virus since last year, and started warning other countries on Jan 3rd. We'll have a timeline later on with who and what... hopefully.
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said: as i've said before... you need to clean your extremities before letting it touch any of your orifices. i'm pretty sure i've said this many times. i would take my wallet and empty it's contents into a shower... soap it... and i'll shower in it... soap myself.. mebbe have some happy fun time.. Oops, sorry, too late. Just by going there, virus got into your body through your eyes. Rarer form of contagion, but happens.
justwhoiam Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 So, if Americans will just go on with their lives and keep being contagious, I guess there'll be restrictions for them to travel abroad. You'll be the outcast.That said, if that happens, statistically some of you will be infected and likely end up in hospital. What are they going to treat you with in the US? Do you know? In Italy, antiviral drugs against HIV and ebola are being used, and more recently, with a drug that is against arthritis (tocilizumab). The latter seems to get you back on your feet faster, but doesn't work on everyone. At times they give you a mix of those, not sure, they're kind of experimenting on people. There are people treated for many days... to get them out of ICUs, aka get lungs to work again. I'm wondering... we'll see the effects of those drugs on all these people in the future. It's unprecedented, and we don't know the effects on patients who suffered from this viral pneumonia, in 10, 20, 30 years.
Author gaius Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 The rest of the world should be restricting travelers from the US at this point. Even with our awful testing rate we've still moved just behind China and Italy for confirmed cases. How we're handling it makes us likely to take the crown for most cases overall. Down here in Florida for a few weeks we we're having county residents infected without actually having any cases in the county, because all the New Yorkers who use Florida for their official residence to avoid taxes were getting diagnosed. Now however with New York going on lockdown you see a lot more of those diarrhea yellow license plates driving around than normal. And the actual cases here to go with them. Exactly what you should do. Drive down to America's retirement home when a virus that's particularly deadly to the elderly breaks out.
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