Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Happy Lemming]

11 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

Oh, and the National Guard has shown up. 

The National Guard was activated in my state, as well. They are assisting with the distribution of food from various grocery store warehouses to individual grocery stores. 

[elaine567]

12 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

It would help if [chinese] people stopped the practice of eating every exotic animal they can catch.

Of course but there are not just coronaviruses that are associated with "exotic" animals.
Many are associated with domestic animals too.
The capacity of viruses to mutate and become pathogenic to humans will always be a problem.
We now live jam packed together, perfect for viruses...

[amaysngrace]

6 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

The National Guard was activated in my state, as well. They are assisting with the distribution of food from various grocery store warehouses to individual grocery stores. 

That’s what I think they’re doing here as well, just helping out where they’re needed. 

[Redhead14]

57 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

It would help if [chinese] people stopped the practice of eating every exotic animal they can catch.

It's likely though that most of the people who are doing this, i.e. eating bats, etc. are doing it out of desperation.  As in the case of some of the other things they might eat on a regular basis now is because at some point people needed to to it.  That's my theory.

[Redhead14]

22 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

My governor (NJ) made testing free to anyone without insurance. 

Oh, and the National Guard has shown up. 

This is fantastic.  Leaving out that segment of the population for testing would just allow this thing to continue to run rampant.  Can't leave any stone unturned.

[Happy Lemming]

I don't know if this is on topic, but my girlfriend is scared.  I've tried to tell her we'll be OK as long as we "hunker down" and stay put, that I have everything under control.  Problem is... I'm not 100%, I believe that.

Yesterday, I was painting at the other end of the house.  At one point, I turned off my radio and could hear her crying.  I went out to investigate, she said it was nothing, but I know the pressure is getting to her. 

[amaysngrace]

Monkey brains??  They’ve been eating them for a very long time. 

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, amaysngrace said:

I hand sanitize when I’m in public so much so that it’s almost to the point of seeming neurotic.  I also hold my breath a lot.

People can judge, I don’t really care.

There is no down side to being extra vigilant under these circumstances with so many unknown positive cases and conflicting information.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[Redhead14]

8 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I don't know if this is on topic, but my girlfriend is scared.  I've tried to tell her we'll be OK as long as we "hunker down" and stay put, that I have everything under control.  Problem is... I'm not 100%, I believe that.

Yesterday, I was painting at the other end of the house.  At one point, I turned off my radio and could hear her crying.  I went out to investigate, she said it was nothing, but I know the pressure is getting to her. 

The psychological damage this will cause is going to be one of the more difficult results of all this now and if/when it passes.  It's really important to try to keep her focused on other things as much as possible and remind her that it's also really important for her to be strong and keep positive and to take care of herself because she would be no good to herself, you or anyone else if she doesn't. 

[LivingWaterPlease]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

There were bad comms from China.  They are bound by international laws to report something like this as soon as possible. Nevertheless, its likely true that this will happen again and it will come from China again.  They need to start being a lot more cooperative and forthcoming and held accountable.  Although, I don't know how we could do that.

That aside, how many people have been going out to the store or somewhere, coming home and washing their hands and sanitizing everything and then using the same toothbrush they've been using all along?  These are little things we gotta pay attention to if we aren't already.

One of my FB friends continues to post, "Clean your toothbrushes!" 

[Redhead14]

I made a quick run to the grocery store, and I mean quick, in and out   But I couldn't find condensed milk.  I asked a store clerk where it was.  So she took me over to where it should be and there was none.  She said, "I don't understand why this stuff goes so quickly.  I guess people feel like they won't be able to go to the store at some point or just get milk".  I said, it's not all about hoarding because of being locked in and not going out, etc., it's also about the fact that a lot of people are going to/if they haven't already, lose their jobs and so are doing some preparing for that as well.  Unemployment may not cover everything and who knows if it will even be available if the strain gets too bad on the system. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[suladas]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

China didn't cause this, globalisation caused this.
Unless "we" learn the lesson to "stay at home", then pandemics will become the norm.

Of course China caused this, and to think different is scary. It's not even the first time they've caused a problem like this. They also made it a million times worse by not taking it seriously, and then most likely making sure the doctor who warned them didn't survive to tell the story.

The only reason it spread so bad is countries chose not to be smart and proactive and close borders. Anywhere only accessible by boat or plane should never have seen a single case. Anyone wanting in should have been held in quarantine until it was 100% sure they were not infected, or stay where they were. Now everyone has to suffer because of a few.

The other big thing people are forgetting is the financial downfall from this, a lot of the deaths won't be from the virus it will be the suicides from all the financial ruin it's causing.

[suladas]

25 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

It's likely though that most of the people who are doing this, i.e. eating bats, etc. are doing it out of desperation.  As in the case of some of the other things they might eat on a regular basis now is because at some point people needed to to it.  That's my theory.

No it's not. It's out of a sick twisted way of wanting to eat the food, they skin and eat some things alive FFS. They want it fresh, and in some cases raw. You think in the really poor countries they care about either of that? No they cook the s*** out of stuff like that to kill anything. This better be the end of that s***, the rest of the world cannot stand to let China continue with that sort of thing.

[Redhead14]

3 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

It really doesn't matter where it came from. It could have come from anywhere. Maybe they thought they could contain it at first?

 

Imagine the mess it would have been if a European country had got it first, where people travel everywhere a lot and are far more tactile and far less disciplined? 

 

 

 

This isn't the first time something like this came out of China.  It does matter where it came from.  It will continue to happen if that situation isn't addressed in some way.   And, no one should make excuses for them.  They did not follow protocols PERIOD.  They were fully aware of what they were dealing with fairly soon and they didn't say a word. That's bullsh*t.  They are experienced with this kind of thing.  They knew what had to be done and they did it.  They are not innocent. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[Libby1]

1 hour ago, amaysngrace said:

I hand sanitize when I’m in public so much so that it’s almost to the point of seeming neurotic.  I also hold my breath a lot.

People can judge, I don’t really care.

Last time I was at the supermarket (about 3 days ago) a man smirked because I was disinfecting the handles of the trolley I was about to use.  There's no shortage of these "chill out everybody FFS" types going about...and ultimately they're almost certainly the type who doing most to help this thing spread.   As primary carer to an elderly mother, I have to do what I can to prevent her from getting this.

I've only seen one person where I live wearing a face mask, and I wonder if that ties in with people around here being more concerned about looking silly than about protecting their health. .  I've ordered a few masks, but they won't arrive for about three weeks and I'm really not keen to go to the supermarket in the interim - though at some point I'll have to.  We just have way too many blase idiots here who, even now, think it's all overblown.  Then of course there are the "medical experts" who advise against the public wearing them, but when you look at the reasons that advice seems almost exclusively based on said experts thinking that we'll be too stupid to use them correctly.   Plus I guess that due to the shortage of them, they don't want the public wearing them.  But really, if somebody had coronavirus without knowing it, them wearing a mask would help protect other people from being infected.  So long as they're taken off and stored properly, they can be used for up to 8 hours intermittently.  If somebody's self isolating and only putting the mask on for trips to the supermarket then they're going to make one mask go for quite a long way provided they use it properly...and there's plenty of guidance out there about proper use of the masks.  

Edited March 21, 2020 by Libby1

[littleblackheart]

24 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

They knew what had to be done and they did it.  They are not innocent. 

How is looking for someone to blame helping solve the pandemic? It's like blaming a parent of a sick child for not taking them sooner to the hospital. It doesn't help.

 

In any event, if the delayed response was a political decision, how was it 'China's fault'? 

 

They're now doing their level best to assist affected countries across the world, sending ventilaors, PPE and medical staff to help.

 

Imo, we should all look at how 'we' managed the situation once we're over the worst, not just China.

Edited March 21, 2020 by littleblackheart

[littleblackheart]

Once I'm able to leave the house, the first thing I'll do is a long walk along the lake; I'm really missing the sea air.

 

My daughter and I have taken to listening to the birds singing from the balcony, and we're trying to recognise the types of birds from the noise they make with an app; a really cool way to spend the afternoon.

[Redhead14]

17 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

In any event, if the delayed response was a political decision, how was it 'China's fault'? 

 

 

China failed to report it as soon as possible and the rest of the world was caught by surprise and blinked.  We, as in the government, has been slow to respond because the those in charge love money and capitalism and were reluctant to do something that would disrupt their own personal interests and are dissociated from reality in terms of what could/would happen and think/thought we/they were invincible.  On top of that, they know they will have everything they want and need no matter what.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[Redhead14]

25 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

How is looking for someone to blame helping solve the pandemic? It's like blaming a parent of a sick child for not taking them sooner to the hospital. It doesn't help.

 

 

It's not about looking for someone to blame per se, it's about addressing the problem so that this kind of thing doesn't keep happening.  And, it will if we don't figure something out with them.  We shouldn't delving into all that right now, necessarily, because we need to focus on the immediate problem at hand, but this needs to be focused on in some way.  Are we and the rest of the world really supposed to just change our entire way of life/living/security, etc., to accommodate a country that doesn't use proper food handling, doesn't follow illness control models and reporting protocols, and have proper food distribution and consumption oversight? Paleeze.

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[beatcuff]

this is another example of emotion/fear overwhelming facts and logic. at the moment there are over 19k cases in the US. the count has been increasing exponentially.  which it should.  for days it's we need to test, where are tests, i need a test - well here come the tests.  now we know for sure and we can add to official count.  prior to the test it was 'if you show flu like symptoms assume the flu and self quarantine', but were not included in the count. 

those that are dying were either old or compromised.  it makes sense for those two groups to be cautions, but weren't they already (more on this below)? weren't they already avoiding those that have 'anything'? of course younger persons could get the infection and it is not a pleasant experience but it is survivable. btw having 1 or even 10 die in this 'safe' group is irrelevant in a population of 7 billion. which leads to 'everyone' forgetting why this was concerning to begin with: the news carried numerous persons, even supposedly knowledgeable persons in knowledgeable organizations (WHO) that were sounding off about the 3.4% mortality rate.  wait what? but there have only been 260 odd deaths in the US or under 1.4% (don't forget we are not including those that have already survived but not counted) .  the mortality rate has been steadily dropping. and now we are hearing over 80% have mild symptoms.

fine ignore all that.  why 'shelter in place'  but allow everyone to go to the grocery store?!? we know viruses (all kinds, yep include the common cold) can survive up to 24 hours on paper surfaces ---- and guess what many surfaces are on those packages.

fine ignore that.  anyone want to guess how many have died from the season flu.... anyone... bueller... 23k (from the CDC). yep so far this season in the US alone 23,000 as in 23 THOUSAND have passed from the seasonal, yearly flu. and 38 million got it this year (again which does NOT include those that did not get tested).  so those 'groups in danger' have been on alert --- well EVERY YEAR.  oh and the most common H1N1.  sound familiar, it should --- a/k/a swine flu (oh and a mutated version of it - which most do).  yet in 2009 when it hit in the US --- no shelter in, no work stoppages, no -- nothing.  just the flu even tho an estimated 60 million got it and 14k died from it.

but hey here is the cool thing --- we will both win on this.  if this slowly fades as the weather improves and we leave our 'virus factories' (by staying indoors) i can say 'i told you so' BUT you can claim victory by saying 'all these measures stopped the virus in its tracks'.  of course  this is happens about every 5 years or so and as these become more common persons will ignore the 'call' (just like the seasonal flu) - 'the boy the cried wolf'.

 

 

 

 

[Redhead14]

12 minutes ago, beatcuff said:

this is another example of emotion/fear overwhelming facts and logic. at the moment there are over 19k cases in the US. the count has been increasing exponentially.  which it should.  for days it's we need to test, where are tests, i need a test - well here come the tests.  now we know for sure and we can add to official count.  prior to the test it was 'if you show flu like symptoms assume the flu and self quarantine', but were not included in the count. 

those that are dying were either old or compromised.  it makes sense for those two groups to be cautions, but weren't they already (more on this below)? weren't they already avoiding those that have 'anything'? of course younger persons could get the infection and it is not a pleasant experience but it is survivable. btw having 1 or even 10 die in this 'safe' group is irrelevant in a population of 7 billion. which leads to 'everyone' forgetting why this was concerning to begin with: the news carried numerous persons, even supposedly knowledgeable persons in knowledgeable organizations (WHO) that were sounding off about the 3.4% mortality rate.  wait what? but there have only been 260 odd deaths in the US or under 1.4% (don't forget we are not including those that have already survived but not counted) .  the mortality rate has been steadily dropping. and now we are hearing over 80% have mild symptoms.

fine ignore all that.  why 'shelter in place'  but allow everyone to go to the grocery store?!? we know viruses (all kinds, yep include the common cold) can survive up to 24 hours on paper surfaces ---- and guess what many surfaces are on those packages.

fine ignore that.  anyone want to guess how many have died from the season flu.... anyone... bueller... 23k (from the CDC). yep so far this season in the US alone 23,000 as in 23 THOUSAND have passed from the seasonal, yearly flu. and 38 million got it this year (again which does NOT include those that did not get tested).  so those 'groups in danger' have been on alert --- well EVERY YEAR.  oh and the most common H1N1.  sound familiar, it should --- a/k/a swine flu (oh and a mutated version of it - which most do).  yet in 2009 when it hit in the US --- no shelter in, no work stoppages, no -- nothing.  just the flu even tho an estimated 60 million got it and 14k died from it.

but hey here is the cool thing --- we will both win on this.  if this slowly fades as the weather improves and we leave our 'virus factories' (by staying indoors) i can say 'i told you so' BUT you can claim victory by saying 'all these measures stopped the virus in its tracks'.  of course  this is happens about every 5 years or so and as these become more common persons will ignore the 'call' (just like the seasonal flu) - 'the boy the cried wolf'.

 

 

 

 

So why now, why this ONE?  Why for this particular virus is every government in the world, slow to respond or not, actually paying heed and taking these more extreme measures???? Why this time?  What's so special about now????

It really doesn't matter what kind of logic and data a person wants to apply, the fact remains that we are where we are and we need to deal with it.  And, if it comes to light that this was all some kind of bullsh*t, we will deal with it then.  We have no real way of knowing what's real or not and, therefore, we need to treat it like its real and respond accordingly.  And, if it comes to light that this really was a true and significant danger and there are/were people out there who seemed to think they had some kind of crystal ball and/or were omniscient and, therefore, didn't bother to follow or respect protocols, they will be contributing to the problem and ensuring that no end will be in sight. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

So why now, why this ONE?  Why for this particular virus is every government in the world, slow to respond or not, actually paying heed and taking these more extreme measures???? Why this time?  What's so special about now????

Because this one has the capacity to completely overwhelm our health services.
The potential numbers badly affected are huge.
Those requiring ventilators, may need days or even weeks of intensive care.
Some even then may have permanent lung damage.
ICUs soon fill up with sick people. One UK hospital ICU is already full of Covid-19 patients and we haven't got near the peak yet..
If you can't breathe and there is no ventilators available then you die unfortunately...

If ICUs are full of Covid-19 patients, then where does anyone else who may need mechanical ventilation go?

[gaius]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

China didn't cause this, globalisation caused this.
Unless "we" learn the lesson to "stay at home", then pandemics will become the norm.

People are acting like bats and snakes don't live anywhere other than China. And if you don't eat them you'll never be able to catch a disease from them. Which is pure ignorance.

There's are times in life when it's appropriate to embark on a long journey from Milan to Minsk, and there are other times when you want to stuff everyone from Milan who's trying to come into your country into an airtight room for 2 weeks to make sure they're not sick. 

If we don't learn that lesson and just blame China then this will be a mistake we're doomed to repeat.

[Redhead14]

14 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Because this one has the capacity to completely overwhelm our health services.
The potential numbers badly affected are huge.
Those requiring ventilators, may need days or even weeks of intensive care.
Some even then may have permanent lung damage.
ICUs soon fill up with sick people. One UK hospital ICU is already full of Covid-19 patients and we haven't got near the peak yet..
If you can't breathe and there is no ventilators available then you die unfortunately...

If ICUs are full of Covid-19 patients, then where does anyone else who may need mechanical ventilation go?

I get it but the poster I was responding to doesn't and was spouting data to dismiss the urgency of this . . .

[justwhoiam]

6 hours ago, pepperbird said:

how long can the quarantines, social distancing, workplace shutdowns, medical appointment cancellations, etc. can go on for before this becomes just a big a problem as the virus is?

Hard to say as this is kind of unprecedented in our modern times.

Quote

what is the long term plan?

Getting rid of contagion. And think at least July, maybe August. Before is hardly possible. And the more people continue to lead their normal life, the more they are ruining it for all of us. And the longer this situation will last.

Hypothetically, If any of us isolated themselves for 24 days, adding a week for good measure, so that any surfaces outside stops being infected, in a month we'd be out of it. But it'd be like an apocalypse. Not sure how you'd count the deaths. You'd have to abandon hospitals, old people's homes, psychiatric wards, and orphanages. And maybe many new born babies would die.