Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[princessaurora]

2 hours ago, justwhoiam said:

It's Simpy, which I guess is simpler than simply

My apologies, Simpy. 

[justwhoiam]

34 minutes ago, gaius said:

China beat the virus in record time using the exact tactics all the "experts" in the west say don't work. And now Italy, who had a lot more warning than China did, just surpassed China's death toll. With no end in sight.

China has been battling with the virus for at least 4 months, and they're still in lockdown. How can anyone think we can solve the situation in 14/30 days? Impossible.

What do you mean by Italy had a lot more warning? The warning works like s - - t if the virus was spreading around longer. The truth is that China had like a 45 days advantage. And please don't believe their official numbers. Everyone can understand they are not real. They started registering cases on January 22!

worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china (see the curve and calendar)

So officially we surpassed their death toll. But the truth is that they didn't register any case/death in November, December, and most of January. You get the picture.

[sothereiwas]

12 hours ago, amaysngrace said:

A quiz to raise self-awareness:

PFI = 3

Edited March 21, 2020 by sothereiwas

[gaius]

12 minutes ago, justwhoiam said:

What do you mean by Italy had a lot more warning? The warning works like s - - t if the virus was spreading around longer. The truth is that China had like a 45 days advantage.

What I mean is that Italy got to watch from afar, like the rest of the world, the early stages of the breakout. China was the lucky country that knew very little when it started to spread. They didn't know how contagious it was, how deadly it was, what precautions to take, the best treatments for it. All things they had to figure out on their own. By the time it hit Italy the world already knew a fair amount about it. You had a lot more to go on.

There was a decent picture forming of what this virus was from mid to late January, Patient One in Italy was diagnosed toward the end of February. Even if you want to say cases were circulating before him you still ended up with a lot more knowledgeable time to prepare than China got. When you were fully aware. And your insistence on allowing almost unfettered travel in the early days likely guaranteed a bad outcome. Like it probably will for us as well.

[simpycurious]

2 hours ago, justwhoiam said:

Ah, so you're being bad!!! Going to play golf, come on... Unless you have your private golf course...

Being bad?  I actually played pretty good....

[Woggle]

I always said that while we were busy tearing each other apart we are ignoring the actual problems in our country and would be equipped if things actually hit the fan. Things have hit the fan and we as a country are ill equipped to deal with it. I had some masks and gloves left over from some home projects I was doing two years ago where I was working with some stuff I didn't want to breathe which I over ordered and I gave most of it to our neighbor who works at the hospital. This woman works at a major hospital and has to get leftover medical equipment from her neighbor with no medical experience whatsoever. It's a disgrace. While we were busy hating each other we let things deteriorate to the point where we can't handle a real crisis.

[littleblackheart]

One of my neighbours's brother, who was in a psychiatric ward, died yesterday while my neighbour is in self-isolation. She won't be able to attend his funeral.

She also normally cares for a 94yo mother, and now she can't. 

Situations like these will leave deep psychological wounds.

 

At the same time, my daughter's classmate is having a big birthday party this afternoon, that most kids (25ish) will attend. Their parents don't seem to care about social distancing, or believe there's anything to worry about because numbers of known cases are so low.

 

This is what happens when politicians leave it to individuals to be socially responsible. Some won't do enough, and some will do too much.

 

 

 

[pepperbird]

I'm obviously no expert on viruses, but form my limited knowledge, one big question that I have is how long can the quarantines, social distancing, workplace shutdowns, medical appointment cancellations, etc. can go on for before this becomes just a big a problem as the virus is?
Ideally, the development of a vaccine will end the problem, but between developing one, testing it to make sure it's safe, mass producing it and then administering it to millions (starting with front line health care workers, and others at the highest risk of catching the disease) the public could be looking at months of the current status quo. Given the way things currently are, I don;t see this as being sustainable for more than a few weeks.
We've been told there will be funds available to help households through measures like increased child tax credits, unemployment insurance benefits, etc. , but unless the feds designate the staff who processes those claims as "essential employees" who can work from their offices, processing those is going to take forever. Last week over half a million new applications came in for unemployment benefits, and this is only going to grow. It's been suggested that banks make allowances for mortgage payments, credit card payments, etc. over the next few months, but form what I understand this is just a suggestion, and in practice, it's not really happening all that much.
Something that is really starting to impact people here is all the medical appointment cancellations. They have all been cancelled indefinitely. Telemedicine is available, but on a very limited basis, and those who have been waiting months to see a specialist may be waiting a really long time. All nonessential surgeries have been cancelled-again, no one knows for how long.

What's the long game here? I understand the quarantines, etc., but are they sustainable? what is the long term plan?

[Redhead14]

2 hours ago, Woggle said:

I always said that while we were busy tearing each other apart we are ignoring the actual problems in our country and would be equipped if things actually hit the fan. Things have hit the fan and we as a country are ill equipped to deal with it. I had some masks and gloves left over from some home projects I was doing two years ago where I was working with some stuff I didn't want to breathe which I over ordered and I gave most of it to our neighbor who works at the hospital. This woman works at a major hospital and has to get leftover medical equipment from her neighbor with no medical experience whatsoever. It's a disgrace. While we were busy hating each other we let things deteriorate to the point where we can't handle a real crisis.

While I agree that we have been "distracted", there isn't anything that could prepare us for another country to intentionally withhold information regarding something like this and give it a rampant head start.  And, the US is not the only country who is dealing with it like this -- pretty much caught by surprise and ill-equipped and inexperienced about how to deal with it.  And, the actual reason we are where we are right now is about the love of money and capitalism.  The country/countries could/should/would be shut down if greed, selfishness, arrogance and, perhaps, some denial/dissociating weren't in play.

[Redhead14]

8 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I'm obviously no expert on viruses, but form my limited knowledge, one big question that I have is how long can the quarantines, social distancing, workplace shutdowns, medical appointment cancellations, etc. can go on for before this becomes just a big a problem as the virus is?
Ideally, the development of a vaccine will end the problem, but between developing one, testing it to make sure it's safe, mass producing it and then administering it to millions (starting with front line health care workers, and others at the highest risk of catching the disease) the public could be looking at months of the current status quo. Given the way things currently are, I don;t see this as being sustainable for more than a few weeks.
We've been told there will be funds available to help households through measures like increased child tax credits, unemployment insurance benefits, etc. , but unless the feds designate the staff who processes those claims as "essential employees" who can work from their offices, processing those is going to take forever. Last week over half a million new applications came in for unemployment benefits, and this is only going to grow. It's been suggested that banks make allowances for mortgage payments, credit card payments, etc. over the next few months, but form what I understand this is just a suggestion, and in practice, it's not really happening all that much.
Something that is really starting to impact people here is all the medical appointment cancellations. They have all been cancelled indefinitely. Telemedicine is available, but on a very limited basis, and those who have been waiting months to see a specialist may be waiting a really long time. All nonessential surgeries have been cancelled-again, no one knows for how long.

What's the long game here? I understand the quarantines, etc., but are they sustainable? what is the long term plan?

Long term plan?  There wasn't even a short-term plan.  The long-term plan right now is to get through the short-term crap we can do and see what happens when we burn through it all and hope. 

[littleblackheart]

Either confinement becomes the new normal for a bit, we readjust our economies and working ways and we accept it as a temporary measure until a vaccine is found (Boris Johnson said we should prepare for 12 months of this) or we use it as an opportunity to completely revamp our priorities.

 

We didn't know about this only 5 months ago.

 

Maybe it's just Nature's way of sending us a message to get a grip and respect her more.

9 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

What's the long game here? I understand the quarantines, etc., but are they sustainable? what is the long term plan?

 

[Redhead14]

24 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

Either confinement becomes the new normal for a bit, we readjust our economies and working ways and we accept it as a temporary measure until a vaccine is found (Boris Johnson said we should prepare for 12 months of this) or we use it as an opportunity to completely revamp our priorities.

We didn't know about this only 5 months ago.

Maybe it's just Nature's way of sending us a message to get a grip and respect her more.

 

This particular gift of nature started in China so it was a message for them, not the entire world and they intentionally re-gifted it . . .

And, there will be a new normal, what that looks like isn't clear yet.  What I do think we can and need to do is to take really good care of ourselves right now mentally and emotionally and be strong and vigilant.  There will most definitely be some tough choices to make at some point and we need to be able to do what's needed for ourselves and be able to help others when we can.  We can't help ourselves or anyone else if we aren't taking care of ourselves.  I say get out and walk more.  Exercise more for sure in some way.  Take vitamins too.  Keep in good touch with each other for support.  And, make sure we tell our loved ones we love them every single day.  Say those words as often as possible. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[littleblackheart]

3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

This particular gift of nature started in China so it was a message for them, not the entire world and they intentionally re-gifted it . . .

It really doesn't matter where it came from. It could have come from anywhere. Maybe they thought they could contain it at first?

 

Imagine the mess it would have been if a European country had got it first, where people travel everywhere a lot and are far more tactile and far less disciplined? 

 

 

 

[elaine567]

China didn't cause this, globalisation caused this.
Unless "we" learn the lesson to "stay at home", then pandemics will become the norm.

[amaysngrace]

So yesterday I cleaned up the front yard, took down st pats out there, put up Easter, mowed the lawn, raked to fill five compost bags and planted pansies.  

I need more compost bags to do the back yard, probably like 15 or so and I have a patio and screen porch that need doing so I’m going to be busy during my unemployment.

I’ve heard rumors that my state (NJ) will be on lockdown soon.  Not sure if it’s true but I loaded up the house just in case it is.

I bought a bunch of cleaners so that I can take down my curtains and really scrub this place proper.

I’m pretty content for the most part.  Of course I’m worried immensely for my daughter but hopefully her hospital has the PPE required to keep her safe.  

She goes in tomorrow after having not worked since Sunday.

 

[littleblackheart]

Nature did this. It's on any virus' job spec to spread around as much as possible.

 

Economic disparities, greed, hyper consumerism and selfishness are helping it spread faster but that's all on all of us humans, and it's not just one thing.

Hopefully this will help us prioritise better.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by littleblackheart

[littleblackheart]

Deleted

Edited March 21, 2020 by littleblackheart

[littleblackheart]

8 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

I’m pretty content for the most part.

That's great news.

 

After a stupidly intense week readjusting to too many changes and crazy events (all of the things my autistic mind can't deal with), I finally feel like I may be back to my rational self. Really hoping it's a once in a lifetime thing.

 

 

[amaysngrace]

I’m hoping that too, @littleblackheart

But if it’s not we’ll know better for next time.  SARS exposure is why Taiwan handled this so incredibly well.  

[littleblackheart]

Yes, I don't think the virus part will be a once in a lifetime thing sadly, but lack of prep, bad comms (from our gvt at least), hare-brain strategy, very slow response in general, insane panic buying, surely will have to be addressed once this blows over. Going back to normal will actually be the worst possible scenario.

[Redhead14]

21 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

Yes, I don't think the virus part will be a once in a lifetime thing sadly, but lack of prep, bad comms (from our gvt at least), hare-brain strategy, very slow response in general, insane panic buying, surely will have to be addressed once this blows over. Going back to normal will actually be the worst possible scenario.

There were bad comms from China.  They are bound by international laws to report something like this as soon as possible. Nevertheless, its likely true that this will happen again and it will come from China again.  They need to start being a lot more cooperative and forthcoming and held accountable.  Although, I don't know how we could do that.

That aside, how many people have been going out to the store or somewhere, coming home and washing their hands and sanitizing everything and then using the same toothbrush they've been using all along?  These are little things we gotta pay attention to if we aren't already.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Redhead14

[Philosopher]

2 hours ago, pepperbird said:

I'm obviously no expert on viruses, but form my limited knowledge, one big question that I have is how long can the quarantines, social distancing, workplace shutdowns, medical appointment cancellations, etc. can go on for before this becomes just a big a problem as the virus is?
Ideally, the development of a vaccine will end the problem, but between developing one, testing it to make sure it's safe, mass producing it and then administering it to millions (starting with front line health care workers, and others at the highest risk of catching the disease) the public could be looking at months of the current status quo. Given the way things currently are, I don;t see this as being sustainable for more than a few weeks.
We've been told there will be funds available to help households through measures like increased child tax credits, unemployment insurance benefits, etc. , but unless the feds designate the staff who processes those claims as "essential employees" who can work from their offices, processing those is going to take forever. Last week over half a million new applications came in for unemployment benefits, and this is only going to grow. It's been suggested that banks make allowances for mortgage payments, credit card payments, etc. over the next few months, but form what I understand this is just a suggestion, and in practice, it's not really happening all that much.
Something that is really starting to impact people here is all the medical appointment cancellations. They have all been cancelled indefinitely. Telemedicine is available, but on a very limited basis, and those who have been waiting months to see a specialist may be waiting a really long time. All nonessential surgeries have been cancelled-again, no one knows for how long.

What's the long game here? I understand the quarantines, etc., but are they sustainable? what is the long term plan?

I read a report from Imperial College, London a few days ago which seems to be guiding the UK’s strategy. The report suggested they would have to keep turning the social distancing measures on and off depending on the number of patients in intensive care. So there may be cycles of a month of relative normality, then a month or two of social distancing, until a vaccine is deployed.

I guess the ideal situation is that within the few months the virus mutates into something that causes just a common cold, or a treatment is found that reduces the death rate by 90% or more or the social distancing measures are so successful that the number of cases worldwide is reduced to say less than 20 a day which would allow the remaining cases to be contained and isolated.

[amaysngrace]

I hand sanitize when I’m in public so much so that it’s almost to the point of seeming neurotic.  I also hold my breath a lot.

People can judge, I don’t really care.

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

China didn't cause this, globalisation caused this.
Unless "we" learn the lesson to "stay at home", then pandemics will become the norm.

It would help if [chinese] people stopped the practice of eating every exotic animal they can catch.

[amaysngrace]

My governor (NJ) made testing free to anyone without insurance. 

Oh, and the National Guard has shown up. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by amaysngrace