littleblackheart Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: What????? That's nuts. The % is scarier than the number - assuming many, many more people have contracted the virus than 'official' numbers show, but it does seem like a lot. It just shows how fast it's moving. 1
Azincourt Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: The % is scarier than the number - assuming many, many more people have contracted the virus than 'official' numbers show, but it does seem like a lot. It just shows how fast it's moving. Thousands are probably infected and don't know it because they don't show any sympthons. Quote Well, some daft girl went into the biggest club in my town over the weekend, and partied up up there and at 2 other bars...only to say she has just been tested positive for COVID19. Something tells me crap is about to get real in my town in the next couple weeks. It's everywhere, bro. These people know they're carriers for the virus and they don't care. Quote Japan police to arrest infected man who visited karaoke bar, as country ramps up coronavirus fight Quote Meanwhile, a man who tested positive in central Japan is expected to be arrested after going out to deliberately ‘spread the virus’ ''Meanwhile, users on social media are condemning a Japanese man who tested positive for the coronavirus then went to a hostess bar with the intention of deliberately infecting other people. The man, who has not been named as he has not been arrested, went to a hospital on March 4 in Gamagori city, central Aichi Prefecture, after both his parents were confirmed to have caught the virus. Tests indicated that the man, in his 50s, also had the illness, and he was told to isolate himself at home until a specialist medical facility could accept him the following day, the FNN Prime news outlet reported. The man ignored the advice, however, with the Fuji News Network reporting that he told a relative he would go out to “spread the virus”. The man then took a taxi, and had a meal at an izakaya restaurant, before going to a bar where he sang karaoke with a Filipino hostess.'' Edited March 18, 2020 by Azincourt 1
justwhoiam Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Wow... 62 pages! I just scrolled through the last 2 and I read many inaccuracies... In Italy, everyone has a right to get treated, but there's also the so-called "futile medical care", and that's what any doctor faces all over the world in certain cases, so either the patient has a living will or the doctor talks to relatives to decide what's best. It's like a 90 year old undergoing surgery, when is it advisable? Intensive care means that you get anaesthesia and you won't breathe by yourself anymore, a tube will be inserted and a machine will pump oxygen in. It'll be mechanical. Then you'll have to get out of it. So older people with several comorbidities have a very slight chance to make it, just like they'd have a slight chance to go through complex surgery and total anaesthesia. So far everyone's getting treated, but some just don't make it. Or the ambulance arrived too late... like in the case of an actor's sister (she died at home, she suffered from epilepsy). The worst situation right now is in the province of Bergamo, with an unmanageable rise of cases. Funeral homes are getting a call every 10 minutes. They're cremating all the corpses and the workload is so heavy they're sending corpses out of province. They had to send patients to other hospitals in the region or even out of region. "Luckily" that's happening just in one province in Lombardy (population around 120,000), and 3 new areas are being equipped this week, so things should get better. But yeah, the virus is disrupting lives for everyone. If ambulance service is too crowded with requests, hospitals are only for Covid 19, 911-like line gets hot and it takes you 50 minutes to talk to someone, you can imagine how the entire health system can be jeopardized pretty quickly. If someone gets a stroke, or a car accident... response is not immediate as usual, there can be indirect deaths that are not caused by Covid 19, but still due to the presence of this coronavirus taking up all resources. I see some think this is all a hoax. I so wish it were, but it's not. Regarding ages, there are patients of any age. 18 months babies, guys in their 20s and no comorbidities. 80% of patients are 60+, but that still means there's a 20% that are below that age. And some were really in good shape. The 38 year-old manager working for Unilever in the south of Lombardy that someone called patient 0 is a sport guy (playing tennis, playing in a soccer team, taking part to runs), and he was in very critical conditions, and doctors didn't know if he could make it. And he's not an isolated case. A vet, 43, said she was in perfect health before getting infected with the virus, she's still isolated in hospital with a respirator and stopped counting how many days she's been there and she has little daughters at home. Anyway, patient 0 is not patient zero, he was called patient 1 in Lombardy. But you all need to consider that infections in Italy didn't spread from just one single person, but from several people, as we have different strains so we know if people are linked or not. Some got it from Germans, some from the Chinese, and more recently Italians are infecting other Italians. That's all we know so far. Data are being collected and they'll be studied. The oldest cases in Europe seem to have started in Germany. As I have read and heard a lot about this for a month (and most content hasn't been translated to English) and I'm in a hotspot, if you have any question, let me know and I will answer honestly. I won't link but if you want to hear the vet talk, the video on youtube is "Dottoressa malata di Coronavirus racconta la sua sofferenza attaccata al respiratore". Edited March 18, 2020 by justwhoiam 2 3
elaine567 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Azincourt said: That's because Italy's population is extremely aged, and there are very few young people 23% over 65 in italy. In the UK we are not significantly better at ~18%.
Inflikted Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Day one of being laid off, for me. Hasn't quite hit me, yet, especially because for the last few weeks, I had some expiring paid time off that I needed to use, so I've had a few extra days off in the previous weeks. So, today just felt like another one of those. I think once we're later into next week, it'll probably hit me more. While the uncertainty of when this will end (and/ or when I will go back to work), as well as the lack of pay (at least until unemployment pay kicks in) is stressful, I suppose I do feel a tad better knowing that I'm not likely to get sick if I'm not going out to work. Granted, at some point, I will need to try to venture out and get more food and supplies, because I'm definitely not stocked to last more than a week or two from now. I feel for my dad, because at the moment, it doesn't sound like his place is getting shut down, though I guess that's a double edged sword. On one hand, it's good because he can keep getting a paycheck, but on the other hand, he's older, and if he gets infected, I'm not sure how he'll fare. I'm wondering if we're going to see any kind of "curfew" where I live, and more so, I wonder if we'll hit the point of "Do not leave your house except to go buy supplies" for any kind of extended period of time; I hope to still be able to visit my friends on the weekend and spend some time with them.
Happy Lemming Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Are there any procedures in place as to what to do about the mail that comes in your box?? I've heard the virus can live for days on cardboard, and assume mail is basically the same. I've been getting my mail, reading it and washing my hands afterwards. Does anyone know if we should be doing something else?? Thank you in advance.
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 I went to the store earlier to get my prescription and a bit of cheese, the shop assistant ( who is usually unpleasant, I don't know how she keeps the job really! ) well she was cleaning and handling trash and came to help me, I said 'don't touch the cheese' and she said 'I don't have it you know'! Er, ok. But you did just handle that waste bin... All the staff there are really nice, they were brilliant with me when I was ill after Harvey and obsessive about hygiene. 1
Azincourt Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: 23% over 65 in italy. In the UK we are not significantly better at ~18%. Yeah, everyone is old and getting older. I'm in my 30s and I'm considerably younger than most people going around in Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Greece etc
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 @Inflikted we do usually get a curfew during darkness hours after a big storm or flood here. It's to minimise need for the emergency services.
littleblackheart Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Azincourt said: Thousands are probably infected and don't know it because they don't show any sympthons. It's not probable. It's 100% sure. My GP friend said she knows she's bound to get it, like many frontline or key workers. They all know. If 60% get it and 80% of those are fine, it still leaves quite a huge % of people who will require moderate to severe care. That's why we're not getting tested; if we actually knew how many people do have it, it'll be pandemonium and even more thoughtless panic buying. 1
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 56 minutes ago, littleblackheart said: It's not probable. It's 100% sure. My GP friend said she knows she's bound to get it, like many frontline or key workers. They all know. If 60% get it and 80% of those are fine, it still leaves quite a huge % of people who will require moderate to severe care. That's why we're not getting tested; if we actually knew how many people do have it, it'll be pandemonium and even more thoughtless panic buying. I think it's important to keep things in perspective.
Redhead14 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: I've been getting my mail, reading it and washing my hands afterwards. I don't get the mail everyday. I wait a couple of days. The virus won't live too long on paper, etc. as I understand. There isn't much coming to the mailbox anyway and what does come is usually junk or things that I don't need to act on immediately. Go to paperless billing on utilities, etc. if you can.
Azincourt Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, littleblackheart said: It's not probable. It's 100% sure. My GP friend said she knows she's bound to get it, like many frontline or key workers. They all know. If 60% get it and 80% of those are fine, it still leaves quite a huge % of people who will require moderate to severe care. That's why we're not getting tested; if we actually knew how many people do have it, it'll be pandemonium and even more thoughtless panic buying. In the Iberian Peninsule they've made it impossible for family to visit their loved ones at retirement homes. I was watching this dude who went to visit his dad hanging out outside of the retirement home. His dad was at the window and they were talking to each other on the phone while playing chess through the glass(window was closed). Young people might be relatively safe from the virus, but all it takes is one person to spread it amongst the elderly and bam, lots of disgraces. Quote That's why we're not getting tested; if we actually knew how many people do have it, it'll be pandemonium and even more thoughtless panic buying. Same reason why they say masks are a waste of time and money and to self-isolate and wash their hands. They barely have enough masks for themselves.
RecentChange Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Well it's hard to believe the bay area wide self quarantine in place has been in effect for only 2 days! I am working from home, as is all of my company now. I set up a home office in the bedroom. Still figuring out logistics as part of what I do entails working with county governments national wide, many of which are shuttering their offices. My husband, is home - all breweries on a halt - so not much work to get done nor sales to make. Otherwise, I can still go ride my horse, and he can still head out and ride his bike. We are avoiding any person to person contact. I was thinking about going to the store in a few days for some fresh fruit (damn it, already ate my bunker supply of fresh blueberries!). Maybe I will just thaw some frozen ones for my yogurt instead. A homeless person has died from COVID19. Apparently their encampment was in a park just 1 mile from my house. WAY TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT. And I am pretty sure a homeless person didn't just return from an international trip. This is community spread. Meanwhile there are people not taking the shelter in place order seriously, which really pisses me off. People playing pick up basketball in San Francisco. People like Elon Musk who tried to claim Tesla was an "essential business" - a designation reserved for medical, grocery, banking, other vital services. Greedy F's like him, like a man who put the community at risk in the name of a dollar.... Grrrr 2 1
Redhead14 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, Ellener said: I think it's important to keep things in perspective. I'd love to be able to do that except I don't know what THE perspective is . . . there's both too much information and not enough and in between are inaccuracies, assumptions, vacillating on response and measures to take and, of course, the unknown. 1
Azincourt Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Redhead14 said: I'd love to be able to do that except I don't know what THE perspective is . . . there's both too much information and not enough and in between are inaccuracies, assumptions, vacillating on response and measures to take and, of course, the unknown. The President of Portugal went on live TV a couple of hours ago to announce the govt. has enacted a state of emergency for the next 15 days, possibly 30 in all for the moment.. Edited March 18, 2020 by Azincourt
littleblackheart Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, Ellener said: I think it's important to keep things in perspective. Yes, keeping things in perspective means knowing lots of people will get it, than mostly people will be fine, and that a fair % of people won't be because health services are under strain. I mean I've been put on quarantine for this sole reason. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just how most viruses work, only this one is fast and we were not prepared. There's no mystery in that.
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 'Neeltje van Doremalen, a virologist at the US National Institutes of Health (NIH), and her colleagues at the Rocky Mountain Laboratories in Hamilton, Montana, have done some of the first tests of how long SARS-CoV-2 can last for on different surfaces. Their study, which has yet to be published in a scientific journal, shows that the virus could survive in droplets for up to three hours after being coughed out into the air. Fine droplets between 1-5 micrometres in size – about 30 times small than the width of a human hair – can remain airborne for several hours in still air. It means that the virus circulating in unfiltered air conditioning systems will only persist for a couple of hours at the most, especially as aerosol droplets tend to settle on surfaces faster in disturbed air. But the NIH study found that the SARS-CoV-2 virus survives for longer on cardboard – up to 24 hours – and up to 2-3 days on plastic and stainless-steel surfaces.' Which is why we're using alcohol sanitizer and bleach solutions. And hand-washing. ( source BBC )
Ruby Slippers Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: I'd love to be able to do that except I don't know what THE perspective is . . . there's both too much information and not enough and in between are inaccuracies, assumptions, vacillating on response and measures to take and, of course, the unknown. Go with your intuition/gut. There's never been a better time for meditation and prayer. As they say, deep down, you already know the answers. 1
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 56 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: I don't know what THE perspective is . . . It's the same as always, thoughtfulness and common sense, information from reliable sources, and keeping a handle on emotions and anxiety- our own and other people's.
Azincourt Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Ellener said: It's the same as always, thoughtfulness and common sense, information from reliable sources, and keeping a handle on emotions and anxiety- our own and other people's. yeah, but think about the people who already suffer from anxiety. Not a fun time. It's not like they can control their anxiety in normal circumstances, and now..
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said: There's never been a better time for meditation and prayer. Faith-places here are starting to hold short services online this weekend. 1
justwhoiam Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Regarding mail. It's possible. An Italian virologist said that the studies conducted in China were lab tests, where they'd contaminate surfaces and then see how long the virus could remain on various kind of surfaces. But in reality, those indicative times are not reliable, as in real life times should be shorter, because there are bacteria degrading the virus. Anyway depending on material, it goes from a few hours to several days (with cell phones having the longest times, so they should be disinfected regularly, or washing hands won't do much). In Bergamo, two mail workers died. Trade union is now asking for closure of all the post offices in Italy, but they're still open for now. I don't think it was linked to touching mail, rather the absence of barriers of some new offices (in the past all had glass dividing the staff from the public), and the fact that staff were not given masks. But one of them was working not front office but in a hub. They were from two different towns. Edited March 18, 2020 by justwhoiam
Ellener Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 51 minutes ago, Azincourt said: yeah, but think about the people who already suffer from anxiety. Not a fun time. It's not like they can control their anxiety in normal circumstances, and now.. You are preaching to the choir. But all the more reason to stay positive, encouraging and no fear-mongering! I suffer from anxiety disorder, and it's been well-managed for some time. I'll post a separate thread about it on the wellness page. 1
Inflikted Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 I still wonder what the actual timeline is going to look like on all of this, too. I mean, obviously, we all wonder that. But a vaccine won't be readily available for at least a year. Even if we do "flatten the curve", it's not going to completely go away, and as long as people can still keep spreading it, I don't really see why it wouldn't boom again after a "down swing". So, if it does ease down in the summer months, and people get back into the work force, and society starts getting a little back to normal, won't it just spread again and cause another big shut down period? But it's also not really feasible to "shut down the world" and lock everyone in for the next 12-18 months. I don't know how vaccine testing and finalization and mass production works, but unless they can somehow get a vaccine out before years end, I don't really understand how life is going to work for the next year and beyond.
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