Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, amaysngrace said:

Darwin was a scientist so I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.  

 

Darwin has been dead for over 100 years.  When he lived he was not against medical intervention for the sick.  

Your take on Darwinism, though widely embraced among your social peers, is not universally accepted.  Hitler used it to his advantage.  If you're interested in looking deeper into the parallels between your thinking and that approach,  this book might be of interest:  "From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics and Racism in Germany,"  by Richard Weikart.  

I also wonder if you've given any thought to why it's appropriate for your dear leader trump to medicate himself prophylactically against COVID-19 while the general public should be expected to submit ourselves to "survival of the fittest" without medical support.   Do you actually worship him?

Darwin's theory of evolution is used today in medicine to address the way our cells have evolved to respond to specific factors (like cancerous growths) or how a virus, like coronavirus, is capable of quickly morphing into something different to compensate for medical treatments that aim to eradicate it.  The study and understanding of this aspect of evolution is helpful in helping the sick / weak, not stepping aside and letting them die off if their immune systems, physical or mental capabilities do not allow for them to fend for themselves. 

Your approach is dangerously close to eugenics, genocide and selective breeding.  It's shared by many people.  I'm afraid that the US is heading in that direction.  I hope something gets in the way of that.

OK, I'm finished talking about Darwin with you. It's not funny anymore.  Peace out.

 

 

[amaysngrace]

11 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I also wonder if you've given any thought to why it's appropriate for your dear leader trump to medicate himself

I respect that about him actually.  Since it’s a drug aimed at helping humans it’s best that a human uses it to get a result instead of using a monkey.

[schlumpy]

6 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

 

The USA, like the rest of the developed world, has "evolved" to a place where the sick, disabled (mentally and / or physically) weak and old are not left to die in order to "strengthen" our population.  

That is not necessarily a quality that has only evolved with homo sapien. Neanderthal Skeletons have been discovered with debilitating arthritis or injuries that have healed over demonstrating that the idea of caring for the sick and disabled has been around for at least tens of thousands of years.

[Redhead14]

28 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

I respect that about him actually.  Since it’s a drug aimed at helping humans it’s best that a human uses it to get a result instead of using a monkey.

Not much difference . . .  Maybe we can send him into space too when the new Space Force is finally assembled.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Redhead14

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 hours ago, amaysngrace said:

Darwin was a scientist so I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.  

 

Well, it's not as if both hypocrisy and a staggering amount of illogic haven't been common threads throughout this entire debacle. An obvious example is our president encouraging the U.S. to "reopen" and sacrifice the elderly, while himself not masking up or socially distancing...but testing "daily" against 19...AND apparently taking daily preventive untried medications...to save himself...against any current science supporting it.

Put all THAT together into anything that could form any sort of straight line.

[CaliforniaGirl]

40 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

I respect that about him actually.  Since it’s a drug aimed at helping humans it’s best that a human uses it to get a result instead of using a monkey.

Survival of the fittest, which Darwin didn't coin, actually - it was a term created by an economist deriving parallels between his theories and Darwin's biological ones - seems to be pulled out when it's convenient and tucked away when inconvenient, so I'm not putting much stock on it being a sincere part of anyone's belief in making decisions throughout this pandemic. It generally seems insincere, to put it politely.

Trump's motivations are primarily economic and he makes absolutely no bones about that. And he is by no means bowing to natural selection OR survival of the fittest by taking medications away from lupus patients who need them (and for whom they work) in order to force continued trials that continue to not yield results, and in order to try to force himself, one of the **naturally** doomed categories - old, overweight, probably heart condition - to live despite nature's selection against a more probable demise, and to tout something he has put a lot of money into.

Edited May 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[amaysngrace]

6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Survival of the fittest, which Darwin didn't coin, actually - it was a term created by an economist deriving parallels between his theories and Darwin's biological ones - seems to be pulled out when it's convenient and tucked away when inconvenient, so I'm not putting much stock on it being a sincere part of anyone's belief in making decisions throughout this pandemic. It generally seems insincere, to put it politely.

That’s good since I never used the term survival of the fittest. 

Also while I have you quoted, please answer what from this pandemic forms a straight line since you were looking for one from Trump’s response to this in your previous post.

Please do share all your knowledge of COVID-19 that forms a straight line so we can inform the CDC at once.

Edited May 20, 2020 by amaysngrace

[CaliforniaGirl]

25 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

That’s good since I never used the term survival of the fittest. 

Also while I have you quoted, please answer what from this pandemic forms a straight line since you were looking for one from Trump’s response to this in your previous post.

Please do share all your knowledge of COVID-19 that forms a straight line so we can inform the CDC at once.

I'm not actually sure what you're asking. A straight line as regards *our actual discussion* (I never said "the pandemic forms a straight line", what does that even mean? - and I never said I have tremendous 19 knowledge...but anyway, to stay on track of what I DID say) might be:

I believe nature is selecting out the weak and other cateogries that 19 seems to hit the hardest. We are out of balance. 19 is bringing us into balance. We should reopen businesses and go about our own lives as pre-closures, and as most doctors have pretty much been unilaterally predicting, most of us will be exposed one way or another, but in a fairly brief span of time rather than bit by bit. A number of us will die. This is natural. I may be one of them because I am (elderly, an asthma sufferer, a cancer survivor, whatever). I accept that. This is life. It is sad, and it is very hard, but it is life. **I know this means I could die, people I love could die. I know that really sucks. I know it's horrible. I know this means there's no perfect answer.**

Another might be:

I believe it's cruel to let people die if we can at all help it. Yes, a lot of people will die anyway. THAT is life too...science or no science. I get that. But if we try to save others who are suffering with other conditions, if we spend billions a year on cancer...auto accident prevention and revamping of car driving laws and how cars must be made and with what parts...billions on prenting or treating or discovering the science behind other maladies, how can we not be taking the hit on 19 for now too? Yes, if someone I know gets sick, I want medicine for that person and I hope we find the right medicine. **I know this means the economy is suffering terribly. I know that really sucks. I know it's horrible. I know this means there's no perfect answer.**

A realy, really, really crooked (in more ways than one) "line" might be:

Well, I want what I want when I want it, and I know I want the economy back AND I know I want to live no matter what, but nobody can actually say that, because it's against cultural mores to do so, generally. So I'm going to toss together talk points and snippets. Therefore myy take at any given day, hour or minute might be: nature should take its course. So let's reopen. X amount die each year anyway and your grandparents were probably going to die soon and why is it cruel for me to say so? Isn't that life? By the way, the president might get sick. How can you say he's not an incredibly brave man with HUGE brass ones who puts his money where his mouth is to take untried medications in order to do every single thing possible to save his elderly, obese (high-risk category, naturally selected against for survival) own life? Obviously that's not selfish or anything, no way...he's doing it for the good of everyone else, he's being his own sacrifice here. (I mean you can tell how much he cares for others by the way he's said X amount of the country should die right now so the economy can go on. So money can go on. Truth.) If you don't admire that, well, I don't know what sort of person YOU are...wimpy, maybe? Not very brave? Not a pioneer? Probably one of those insulting things. Oh, and by the way, how can anyone do these trials on animals? Just people should take these risks. And die. By medicine. Not by nature. Except...wait...we should be allowing people to die naturally...so......let's all open businesses...but...but...but...

It sounds nuts and exaggerated when all thrown together like that ^ but this sort of back-and-forth "I'll use what I need to use, when I need to use it" is exactly what we're seeing right now, everywhere. I believe it still all just comes down to the same thing: we're people. And we want what we want...and we're going to make our stuff fit...one way or another. Talk points, "science," "Darwinism" (used both for and against science right now, astoundingly enough) and so on are being tossed back and forth like a beach ball in a high wind. I guess it's amusing...sort of. But on the other hand it's kind of sad. Because this is what we've come to. We aren't just lying to one another. We're lying to ourselves...so we can keep believeing we're not just animals ourselves (or less than) who do this back-and-forth dance to further our own agenda, to *position ourselves in the best place possible*, using science and lack of it, talk points, and anything we can grab to do it. And yes. It's one heck of a crooked line. And yes. It's pretty hypocritical. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

45 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Not much difference . . .  Maybe we can send him into space too when the new Space Force is finally assembled.

In a very round ship.  A big ship, the best ship. I mean people can't believe...nobody's seen a ship like this. Other countries can't BELIEVE this ship.

Sorry you guys, carry on.  Just funnig for 2 seconds...my usual okay, I KNOW I need to get down to work so I'll make a joke nobody will laugh at stuff...

Everybody have a good day and try to smile...and try try try to hang in there...

[amaysngrace]

There’s something seriously wrong with that chick. 

[chillii]

 

Still don't know why anyone needs any of these theories or ideals from whomever thought or did what whenever. Glad l wasn't the one wasting good money paying any of them only to come up with what's been nature's , the planets and the universes laws since time began .

But there's not too many societies that would go the letting nature take it's natural path route these days , some maybe. Medicine and the labs creating it will never stop , matter of fact people will be living to 120 well before this century is over. And then they'll still be complaining about the 20billion people by then,  aging and how to feed everyone.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, chillii said:

 

Still don't know why anyone needs any of these theories or ideals from whomever thought or did what whenever. Glad l wasn't the one wasting good money paying any of them only to come up with what's been nature's , the planets and the universes laws since time began .

But there's not too many societies that would go the letting nature take it's natural path route these days , some maybe. Medicine and the labs creating it will never stop , matter of fact people will be living to 120 well before this century is over. And then they'll still be complaining about the 20billion people by then,  aging and how to feed everyone.

 

This.

"Let nature take its course" only ever seems to go as far as "...but only until nature is taking its course against me or someone I love."

I wish people would stop pretending the believe this. People haven't let nature take is course for better than 30,000 years now.

Perhaps the most amazing thing is that nearly everyone to the last man or woman telling others to let nature take its course is doing so from a computer or other electronic device, from some sort of temperature controlled environment, wearing clothing, having eaten processed (including) cooked foods and so on, and so on...

Come on now...

Edited May 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Redhead14]

So Trump is a candidate for martrydom because he's testing an experimental drug that was administered to him after he tested negative for Covid and isn't showing any symptoms and is also saving a few monkeys??  And, we will be expected to believe that if he never develops Covid symptoms, it's the drug that kept that from happening???    LMFAO  

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Redhead14

[chillii]

 

Cali , again , l didn't say that's what we should do , only that that's how nature has worked .

And nope , don't agree at all , Ancient races and tribes understood nature and worked with it and managed to survive just fine for 10s of thousands of years. And not even ancient , most we've managed to basically destroy their way of lives their country and the planet in only a few 100 yrs , that would've still been living their ways just as they'd always done if we didn't come along, for 1000s more years.

lmo if the one mistake nature or the Gods or whomever made, was giving humans too greater intelligence and hence the stupidity that's came with it . If we were at about the equivalent of apes , everything would all still be just fine.

Edited May 20, 2020 by chillii

[CaliforniaGirl]

13 minutes ago, chillii said:

 

Cali , again , l didn't say that's what we should do , only that that's how nature has worked .

And nope , don't agree at all , Ancient races and tribes understood nature and worked with it and managed to survive just fine for 10s of thousands of years. And not even ancient , most we've managed to basically destroy their way of lives their country and the planet in only a few 100 yrs , that would've still been living their ways just as they'd always done if we didn't come along, for 1000s more years.

lmo if the one mistake nature or the Gods or whomever made, was giving humans too greater intelligence and hence the stupidity that's came with it . If we were at about the equivalent of apes , everything would all still be just fine.

I know...I was trying to speak more generally but I think that came off the wrong way, I don't think that you believe we should just let people die without medicine, sorry I wasn't clear. 

But on your second point...yes, ancient races worked with nature...to a point. Human beings have been manipulating their state for tens of thousands of years. Actually, over a million years if you count using fire for warmth and then for cooking food. I understand your point of how drastically we're doing it in comparison now. There's no doubt. But as far as whether the ancients just didn't tamper with nature..yes they did. Every single day. When we talk about our ancestors working "with" nature it's working "with" the rain to water the crops *they* planted in places the plants weren't going to grow. It was to raise their animals they had deliberately bred to their needs and wants. It was foods and medicines they developed while singing to the gods...We haven't "just" let people die or live according to nature's rules for tens of thousands of years or probably longer, as someone pointed out with the healed Neanderthal. We've worn other animals' skins, used medicines, maniuplated our environments and so on probably since before we were technically human.

But yes. I get that what you're pointing out is that this has been amped to the Nth degree in recent times.

The reason I pointed out our long, long history of "not just letting people die" is that when people claim we should just allow nature to take its course it's ridiculous on so many counts, well...they can't even be counted. I'd like to see any one of us do that for even a day right now. I don't think we can. Even when we "rough it" we wear clothes, use tents and bring canteens and we know to boil water and so on...it's a matter of degree and where that cutoff point is, is the question...that's always been the million dollar quesion and the more we're able to keep ourselves alive, the bigger the fight about it becomes.

Edited May 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[sothereiwas]

32 minutes ago, chillii said:

Ancient races and tribes understood nature and worked with it and managed to survive just fine for 10s of thousands of years.

Define survive. Only a few thousand years ago, or a few hundred in NA, life was short and brutal for many, and miserable a lot of the time for most. At one time in the recent past a big percentage of women died giving birth to their first child. That's living with nature, but I have no issue with improving it. 

[chillii]

 

Yeah but only in very mild degrees that nature could handle and could've kept on handling just fine until the next clean up. And what s is saying is true , but now we have 7bill , starving nations and 100s of 1000s of babies dying every day. But l don't consider the last 1000 or 2 yrs part of the earlier equation , it was the beginning of this one.

Anyway , doesn't matter who bangs on about what in internet forums or what any of us think it doesn't change a thing so l'm out , carry on.

[elaine567]

Overpopulation will kill us off eventually.
Our "intelligent" attempts at controlling our destiny are short term and destructive to the world. 
At some point all our attempts will be futile as the world cannot continue to support billions of resource careless,. selfish people.
Our world is dying all around and we are hooked on trivia.
We are all living in a short term world and we are all encouraged to think in that way.
Live in the moment...

[chillii]

Haaaa, exactly, cept trivia bores me .

PS  but l am interested in how this damn virus is going.

Edited May 21, 2020 by chillii

[amaysngrace]

chillii want to know how this virus is going?  Yesterday the cdc said it’s not as contagious on surfaces as was once told to us.  

My daughter has this thing you know.  We live together.  She’s not quarantining up in her room.  I don’t disinfect after she uses the bathroom or if she gets out of a chair or off the couch downstairs.  She’s been in my car.  We’ve drank from the same bottle.  We hit the same vape (he he).  I don’t disinfect before putting things to my lips after she had them on hers.  

I have no antibodies.  I took a blood test.  I also have no covid.  I took the swab test.  

Perhaps I’m getting false negatives.  That’s always a possibility.  Or maybe it’s not as infectious as we’ve been led to believe.  Either way someone is wrong somewhere.  

All I can say is use your best judgment.  Keep an open mind.  Don’t let politics mess with your head.  And as always, be well my friend.

 

[sothereiwas]

8 hours ago, chillii said:

 

....  now we have 7bill , starving nations and 100s of 1000s of babies dying every day ...

Those figures are actually decreasing in severity as our population increases over time, however. More of humanity has shelter and food than at any other point in history. 

 

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Overpopulation will kill us off eventually.

If things continue as they are population is predicted to level off relatively soon. I think the prediction is slowing growth soon and essentially flat numbers someplace in the teens. That's a lot of people but the earth is a big place. If the old world would get their act together it would be much less a problem of course. 

[sothereiwas]

14 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

ancient races worked with nature...to a point.

So do we ... to a point. Remember the last time you went to see the mastodon herds? No? Neither does anyone else, because the native stone age peoples made them extinct. Apparently they were delicious and easy to find. The only reason primitive civs didn't completely rape nature is simply because they were incapable. 

[schlumpy]

46 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

So do we ... to a point. Remember the last time you went to see the mastodon herds? No? Neither does anyone else, because the native stone age peoples made them extinct. Apparently they were delicious and easy to find. The only reason primitive civs didn't completely rape nature is simply because they were incapable. 

It was pretty common for the Native Americans to set forest fires that would open up spaces in the forest for animals to graze. Perfectly sensible considering the goal, but I think that most environmentalist would take a dim view of that practice today.

[chillii]

2 hours ago, amaysngrace said:

chillii want to know how this virus is going?  Yesterday the cdc said it’s not as contagious on surfaces as was once told to us.  

My daughter has this thing you know.  We live together.  She’s not quarantining up in her room.  I don’t disinfect after she uses the bathroom or if she gets out of a chair or off the couch downstairs.  She’s been in my car.  We’ve drank from the same bottle.  We hit the same vape (he he).  I don’t disinfect before putting things to my lips after she had them on hers.  

I have no antibodies.  I took a blood test.  I also have no covid.  I took the swab test.  

Perhaps I’m getting false negatives.  That’s always a possibility.  Or maybe it’s not as infectious as we’ve been led to believe.  Either way someone is wrong somewhere.  

All I can say is use your best judgment.  Keep an open mind.  Don’t let politics mess with your head.  And as always, be well my friend.

 

 

 

Ahhh , no worries about that one always have always will no one messes with my head least of all idiot pollies but to me it's just as infectious as ever until further notice .  l'm surprised your not doing more of that stuff with your daughter's sitch though , when mines got the flue l do some simple things and l don't get it from her . Sometimes she's had 3 in one year and l've avoided every one just by watching a few simple things, 2 yrs running last , hoping for 3 this yr haha.

ps , although she's due to get my this year by now that's for sure but l'm getting the shot, first time ever , so we see.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by chillii

[amaysngrace]

My daughters not having symptoms chillii, it’s why I’m being so cavalier.  If she spikes a fever (she takes her temp multiple times daily, needs to for her monitoring log to be able to return to work) or if she develops coughing or sneezing then perhaps I’ll change my tune and start chasing lysol.  I don’t want her to be excluded or feel like she has the plague as it is though.  

It just doesn’t seem right.