Redhead14 Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, chillii said: Yep exactly. Anyone can get it , any age and anyone can get very very sick from it we've got 2 pro footballers that have nearly died and 6 wks later they still can't walk 100mtrs , any age it all just depends , just because it's not typical doesn't mean a thing with this . But the biggest thing is that anyone can catch it and pass it on to 100s of people through just one or two to begin with. So hell yeah, it's well worth keeping everyone home until a better idea or vax comes along , or they can just exterminate the damn thing, or something. We need widespread accurate testing to figure out who should be isolated and when. Unless that happens, everyone is suspect and should be treated as such by me. I just got a pizza delivery guy fired for not wearing a mask when he made my delivery. And, his attitude was s***ty when I called him out on it. I will do it again if it happens again with other deliveries. I am high risk and I make that clear when I place my orders. Edited May 16, 2020 by Redhead14 2
sothereiwas Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, chillii said: Yep exactly. Anyone can get it , any age and anyone can get very very sick And the race is not always to the swift. But that's how to bet. The odds of a healthy person dying of this thing are very very slim. People drive to work routinely, and that's pretty dangerous. I dive and ride motorcycles. Life is a terminal condition at this point in history.
Redhead14 Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: The odds of a healthy person dying of this thing are very very slim. Would you like to be in a room with someone who is sick and see if the odds are with you?
greymatter Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 This is concerning and I don't see it being widely reported: "Five sailors on the U.S. aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy." Link: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/sailors-on-sidelined-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/
elaine567 Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: People drive to work routinely, and that's pretty dangerous. I dive and ride motorcycles. These are to a large extent manageable risks. Get the virus and you are in a lottery for your life and your continuing health. As a father said when told the risks for his five year going to school were very low, but he said "What happens if it is my kid that dies? what happens if he is the "one in a million"... He is not going to school."
sothereiwas Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, greymatter said: This is concerning and I don't see it being widely reported: "Five sailors on the U.S. aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy." Link: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/sailors-on-sidelined-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/ With that many sailors, it could have been 5 false positives the first time.
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: With that many sailors, it could have been 5 false positives the first time. If they were negative would you be saying "hey, those might as easily been false negatives considering the amount of sailors"? Which of course would just as easily have been true? Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl 1
Timshel Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 Good news sothereiwas, things are opening up, do you. It would seem the only thing hindering you is the time spent behind a screen arguing about it....God speed, best of luck and all that. 3
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, elaine567 said: These are to a large extent manageable risks. Get the virus and you are in a lottery for your life and your continuing health. As a father said when told the risks for his five year going to school were very low, but he said "What happens if it is my kid that dies? what happens if he is the "one in a million"... He is not going to school." Not to mention the fact that there ARE controls put on driving, significant ones. Thousands, many of which we no longer even notice day to day. We no longer even remember the hoops we went through just to get the license in the first place for the most part with the studying and the course test and written test and having to re-take it if we failed, etc...leaving aside the dozens of rules we automatically follow within five minutes of being on the road. We follow legal safety rules, punishable if not followed, before we even leave our driveway. In addition, the laws and regulations can change at a moment's notice for irregular periods of time due to weather, hazards, road construction of other safety reasons. And laws of regulations either for drivers, passengers or both and for driving or even for being parked can be and are changed and updated constantly. Based usually on safety. We definitely are restricted in hundreds of ways, for society's sake, punishable from a warning to a fine to prison time, auto impoundment and/or removal of our driving rights entirely, every single time we take the wheel. Of course there IS the obvious factor of driving stupidity not being generally virally contagious. If it were and there were a car virus about, or course cars would be restricted, or off the road entirely. Or just allowed to die? I guess? Or get sick enough to potentially be seriously dangerous to other cars. But well...that's not the case. Same with heart attacks and cancer and other analogies I've seen. Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
sothereiwas Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: If they were negative would you be saying "hey, those might as easily been false negatives considering the amount of sailors"? Which of course would just as easily have been true? It's likely, given the numbers involved, they had some of both.
sothereiwas Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Timshel said: It would seem the only thing hindering you is the time spent behind a screen arguing I'm here most days waiting for a build, or for a commit to finish, or for the CI/CD pipeline to complete, or any number of other things. There is an applicable XKCD on the subject ....
carhill Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 Microbe TV... https://www.youtube.com/user/profvrr/videos
schlumpy Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 9:45 PM, Juha said: Unfortunately locking healthy people in the house does not really accomplish much of anything as far as amount of people who will get infected or amount of people that will die. I get what you are saying but they don't have any other tools in the toolbox. The stay at home order was not aimed at saving lives. It's main purpose was to slow the infection rate so that the hospitals would not be overrun. They guessed wrong because except in some hot spots, the hospitals were not overrun but the government way is "one size fits all." The order also has significance with crowd control and keeping people from panicking by giving them something to do. We can only guess if the lock down saved lives. I suspect it was not as effective as portrayed by politicians. We most likely will arguing about it for years to come. 1 1
sothereiwas Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 4 hours ago, schlumpy said: We can only guess if the lock down saved lives. I suspect it was not as effective as portrayed by politicians. We most likely will arguing about it for years to come. I strongly suspect it's like the TSA, serving multiple purposes including a little of what it's advertised to do, but not mostly that thing. Mostly it was political insurance for those who were in a position to make the call. Essentially most places, politicians were gutless and made the safest call for themselves without real regard to giving consideration as to what was best for their people. This was then followed by a PR campaign to convince folks of the wisdom of this call. It's mostly worked, people are sheep. Big flocks, small brains. 1
amaysngrace Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: For people who are unlikely to die or be seriously injured, it's probably a good bet. Those in higher risk situations would probably be well served to wait for effective treatments and/or a vaccine. I agree 100% 1
Happy Lemming Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 I was watching my local news and they said 70% of the Covid-19 deaths (in my county) were individuals in nursing homes. I'm guessing that means its not as dangerous for "the average Joe" as I previously thought?? I'm trying to wrap my head around this and thinking maybe our governor was right in lifting the "Stay at Home" order, as it seems the general population (those not in nursing homes) are at less risk. It kind of changes the way I am perceiving the death toll in regards to the risk of re-starting businesses and the economy (here). I welcome others perspective on this and how you would interpret this new fact.
amaysngrace Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 HL this is all the same thinking they (MSM) shut down because it coincided with what our President was leaning towards and you know you can’t have that in America!
Piddy Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: I was watching my local news and they said 70% of the Covid-19 deaths (in my county) were individuals in nursing homes. I'm guessing that means its not as dangerous for "the average Joe" as I previously thought?? I'm trying to wrap my head around this and thinking maybe our governor was right in lifting the "Stay at Home" order, as it seems the general population (those not in nursing homes) are at less risk. It kind of changes the way I am perceiving the death toll in regards to the risk of re-starting businesses and the economy (here). I welcome others perspective on this and how you would interpret this new fact. Even if it doesn't kill you it can make you very very sick. I saw Mara Gay (N.Y. Times editorial board) the other day and she is 33 and healthy. She caught the virus and she said it felt like tar in the bottom of her lungs. The only way she could get a deep breath was to be on all fours. She went to the hospital and she had enough oxygen in her lungs that she was able to go home and recover. She's still not 100%. Here's Dr. Joseph Fair (Infectous disease Dr.) talking for his hospital bed about his battle with the virus. Link below. https://news.yahoo.com/dr-joseph-fair-details-covid-115136584.html Edited May 17, 2020 by Piddy
Redhead14 Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: I'm guessing that means its not as dangerous for "the average Joe" as I previously thought?? Does it? Why did almost every government in the entire world handle it in basically the same way? It was no secret either that elderly people in nursing homes were experiencing the highest death rates. It started in the State of Washington nursing home and it took off like wild fire. And, it's also no secret that the younger and healthiest people suffer the least. Nevertheless, there are thousands who do suffer and die. It's not right to dismiss the millions of older, more high-risk people and just allow it to run rampant. We are really just playing a game of russian roulette for the most part. Would you like to test your odds and get next to someone who had it? We can't really know just how bad this could have been for more people either because we took steps to manage it. Edited May 17, 2020 by Redhead14
Happy Lemming Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Piddy said: Here's Dr. Joseph Fair (Infectous disease Dr.) talking for his hospital bed about his battle with the virus. Link below. Interesting read/video... thanks for the link. 16 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: It was no secret either that elderly people in nursing homes were experiencing the highest death rates. Oh... I agree, but I didn't think it was 70% of the overall deaths in my county. Again, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around this whole thing. I really don't know what to think (at this point) or how to interpret the data coming from my state and county officials. Edited May 17, 2020 by Happy Lemming 1
Ellener Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 Wow, haven't looked at this thread for weeks, but I think it's still the same- people must make their own judgment calls regarding safety even as things start to reopen and enough info isn't available for certainty. The highest risk population everywhere seem to be the elderly, and I read on the BBC 12500 seniors with dementia illnesses died in the UK, that was the number one pre-existing condition for the nursing home deaths. It is complicated though- any change to routine and care is likely to lead to a decline in those illnesses, and I am sure fear and anxiety too. Lots of complications being reported in the treatment of Covid 19, like blood clots and heart attacks, so people should not treat it lightly as it is still unclear why some people have such severe reactions others very mild. I am still social isolating for the most part, but I am lucky to have enough to live on, in a country where money and food is distributed to get people through the crisis. I feel an enormous sense of gratitude for the people who staffed the supermarkets and health facilities etc when I didn't have to go out at all, especially in the early days when gloves and masks or PPE wasn't available. If I go somewhere and don't feel safe I shall turn around for a while, it's a very personal decision since people's circumstances are all different I think.
Inflikted Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Happy Lemming said: Again, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around this whole thing. I really don't know what to think (at this point) or how to interpret the data coming from my state and county officials. Yeah, that's what's been a bit frustrating to me, because while it seems that the people who get hit the hardest are those that are older and/ or have health conditions, there are still stories about young, healthy people getting it and dying. It's like... why did those people die, then? Even if it's technically "not as likely", it still has happened, and I haven't come across any answers as to why. Not to mention, it sounds like it's relatively common for people who recover to end up with permanent damage to their lungs and other vital organs. But again, it still feels like there's so many unanswered questions, with no answers in sight. 1
sothereiwas Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 If you look at deaths from COVID-19 on a table that shows age and health conditions, it looks to actually be more about bad health. Probably being old makes poor health more likely, the way the data looked. 1
elaine567 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) It is also thought to be related to immunity with older patients having defective immune systems, tha tis separate from whrther they are healthy or not. Though I agree bad health is also a huge factor. Quote One in four people who have died in hospital (in England) with Covid-19 also had diabetes, the NHS’s first breakdown of underlying health conditions among the fatalities shows. Of the 22,332 people who died in hospital in England between 31 March and 12 May, 5,873 (26%) suffered from either type 1 or type 2 diabetes, NHS England figures reveal. That was the most common illness found in an analysis of what existing conditions patients had. The other commonest comorbidities were dementia (18%), serious breathing problems (15%) and chronic kidney disease (14%). One in ten (10%) suffered from ischaemic heart disease. Edited May 18, 2020 by elaine567 spacing 1
sothereiwas Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 "Table 4 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 7% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.5 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidity," - cdc website That looks to me like they're saying 93% of the COVID-19 deaths had another pre existing health issue involved. I could be reading it wrong. 1
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