Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Ellener]

In the city where I live we are used to dealing with hurricanes/flooding ie. major disasters, so I don't anticipate a lot of panic here.

I use hand sanitizer frequently anyway being in and out of hospitals/nursing homes, but I picked up a few extra to give away and we set one on the counter at my shop job and are wiping down surfaces with bleach wipes and disinfectant spray.

I'm going to pick up an extra case of water and I always keep in acetaminophen/paracetamol and aspirin for fevers, I'll get a cough medicine too. And extra toilet paper!

I'm diabetic so in the higher risk group so I'll be resting and taking care of myself, I've just had a mild cold plus moved house so I'll have a lazy day today. 

 

[pepperbird]

57 minutes ago, Ellener said:

In the city where I live we are used to dealing with hurricanes/flooding ie. major disasters, so I don't anticipate a lot of panic here.

I use hand sanitizer frequently anyway being in and out of hospitals/nursing homes, but I picked up a few extra to give away and we set one on the counter at my shop job and are wiping down surfaces with bleach wipes and disinfectant spray.

I'm going to pick up an extra case of water and I always keep in acetaminophen/paracetamol and aspirin for fevers, I'll get a cough medicine too. And extra toilet paper!

I'm diabetic so in the higher risk group so I'll be resting and taking care of myself, I've just had a mild cold plus moved house so I'll have a lazy day today. 

 

The basics people would follow for keeping healthy will help here too.
I know some feel all the panic is warranted, but I don't. I really wonder how much of the "prerparation
' is necessary and how much is being driven by governments wanting to placate their population.

One measure of how concerned people really are ( at least in the USA) will be whether or not these huge gatherings leading up to the fall elections will be postpones. It's hard to think of a better way to spread disease than to  bring a  huge group of people together. All it would take is one errant cough from an infected person, and it could be quarantine for hundreds or even thousands. The same is true for concerts, sporting events, university classes, commuter transport platforms, airports, public lectures, malls, grocery stores, dog parks, general parks, beaches, day  cares, whatever.
When I start seeing some of those close, I'll be a bit more concerned. I saw a photo the other day of what looked to be a rally for Sanders supporters. At least a few thousand were there. Pretty irresponsible to hold that sort of gathering if this disease is around. It went on anyway.
 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

19 hours ago, gaius said:

Yeah, that's just about the worst place is could get into. And most likely the first sizeable outbreak in the US.

It's officially started it seems.

LOL - quit fanning the stupidity.

 

<gasp>  "the worst place" it could get into...  is a self-contained place where few people have to get up and go out and spread germs around the world on a given day????

 

One would suggest that elementary schools and/or daycares would be far worse.  Along with sports stadiums, convention centers, etc.

 

 

 

[gaius]

This particular strain is most deadly in the elderly and rarely effects children @SincereOnlineGuy. It seems like you're not paying much attention to the information that's out there, or if you are just not really comprehending it.

If you want to take a break from the rocking chair and participate in the conversation then by all means. But it's almost like you're posting in the wrong thread because you don't seem to know or understand what's going on. There's plenty of good references and links on the preceding pages if you need a little help.

[Shanex]

On 2/28/2020 at 2:22 PM, justwhoiam said:

I am in the most affected Western area. Schools were closed down for a week. Churches too. Same for pubs, cafés, bars, clubs & libraries. Movie theaters went deserted, and theaters are experiencing issues. La Scala had someone who tested positive, so they blocked any show. Japan closed down schools for the next two months.

Are these measures too much? Some believe so, but we need to consider that what the general public is being told might be just part of the story, not the whole story.

I read all the posts in this thread. China can't be fully trusted: true. Official news might not be telling the whole story: possible.

There are rumors spreading. Is anything about those rumors true? There's a chance some of it might be true. Or maybe it's completely false. Official sources are comdemning these rumors, but I'm in favor of multiple sources and points of view, so that people can have a better picture of the whole situation and judge for themselves.

Russian sources (or rumors) stated that the Wuhan lab where they regularly experiment on viruses is like half a mile from the market that was accused of spreading the virus. And the experimenting involved a military operation. Although this might be just speculations, these same sources say that people working at the lab - going against international protocols - used to sell animals that died after these experiments (mostly monkeys and rats) to top up their salaries. And apparently, the preferred place to sell underhand was that Wuhan market. So it makes sense that 1. infected meat was not found and 2. many infected people had never set foot in that market. Livestock has nothing to do with anything. Said sources also stated that the virus once spread through saliva particles can keep floating in the air for several hours, possibly even days, and the same goes for surfaces that have been touched (possibly up to 5 days). That explains why airlines that flew infected people removed magazines and other gadgets (like blankets) from the planes. Again, the same sources added that masks won't do much because you can be infected through your eyes if you are exposed to the virus, and obviously by touching stuff. People exposed to the virus get infected at a rate of 83%. So contagion on the Diamond Princess cruise ship  (20%) was extremely contained, due to measures that were adopted and confinement imposed on guests.

These Russian sources finally affirm that the coronavirus contains a strain of HIV, which would only be possible if the virus is man-made, not possible in nature. No one talked about it and for this reason I have no idea if this piece of information is true. But one thing is true: Italian patients infected with COVID-19 are being treated with an HIV drug, aka Lopinavir or ABT-378, a highly potent inhibitor of the human immunodeficiency virus protease as "this enzyme is present both in the HIV virus and the coronavirus". That was declared by one of the Italian doctors treating patients in a hospital. It looks like it's administered together with another drug with the same effect: ritonavir aka ABT-538. These are the Italian protocols right now. These patients are being fed a number of drugs, and the mix seems to be working.

What is the real threat for everyone? Why does this virus need to be contained? Besides the death rate of 3% in a Western country up to 15% in other countries (though it might be too early to draw conclusions as measures in Italy have been taken for just 10 days so far), there's an average rate of 10% of infected people needing intensive care (even in young healthy adults). So if numbers go up, intensive care might not be available for everyone who needs it. That's the biggest scare. So countries need to watch out and keep those numbers down, not to risk to clog up hospitals. Australians have already documented how Chinese hospitals have experienced exactly that and there are people needing care lining up in the streets outside hospitals, or just dying. People have been confined to their apartments with shortages of food, while others were forcibly taken by the military forces and were not seen anymore.

So, no panic, but don't underestimate what's going on, and - most of all - consider there's a good chance this virus is due to human errorAnyone who come up with so much BS has definitely been binge watching Stranger Things while on meths instead of taking his meds to then spew his nonsense on whatever “source” you have taken it from.

The very fact that no one really knows how the Covid-19 originated triggers all kind of rumors and bizarre theories especially online.

But seriously this post has to be the worst Alex Jones like brain fart I have ever read. Yes, I have also read that the Mossad was behind 9/11, to engage America in new Middle Eastern adventures, I have probably read that Hillary suicided Epstein and that Area 51 is a cemetery for aliens (wait no, that was after I watched Independence Day).

This post I’m quoting sounds like someone has binge watched Stranger Things (and those evil Russians) while on meths then decided to spread rumors on the internet. I’m sure the Chinese indeed let Russians operates and experiment highly infection pathogens inside their borders. This totally make sense.  

It’s worrying, it’s pretty much more lethal than the seasonal flu. Yes, our nanny states for govt are advising us to wash our hands, cough in our elbow and the whole thing but for real let’s keep the tin foil hat nonsense for 4chan or InfoWars.

[Libby1]

18 minutes ago, Shanex said:

The very fact that no one really knows how the Covid-19 originated triggers all kind of rumors and bizarre theories especially online.

But seriously this post has to be the worst Alex Jones like brain fart I have ever read. Yes, I have also read that the Mossad was behind 9/11, to engage America in new Middle Eastern adventures, I have probably read that Hillary suicided Epstein and that Area 51 is a cemetery for aliens (wait no, that was after I watched Independence Day).

This post I’m quoting sounds like someone has binge watched Stranger Things (and those evil Russians) while on meths then decided to spread rumors on the internet. I’m sure the Chinese indeed let Russians operates and experiment highly infection pathogens inside their borders. This totally make sense.  

It’s worrying, it’s pretty much more lethal than the seasonal flu. Yes, our nanny states for govt are advising us to wash our hands, cough in our elbow and the whole thing but for real let’s keep the tin foil hat nonsense for 4chan or InfoWars.

JustwhoIam mentioned being from the most affected Western area - which is Italy.  The confirmed infection rate there has gone from around a dozen to just under 1700 in about 10 days.  That's similar to Wuhan from mid to late January...so it's going to be a particularly stressful time for people where JustwhoIam is right now.   The more an infection rate builds up in a particular area, the more people are going to be trying to find out whatever they can about it.  And unfortunately there are a lot of unanswered questions right now.

I suspect that in the US, focus is still largely on the impact this virus is having on financial markets and it's still more of a political football than something people are seriously worried about.  But my heart goes out to JustwhoIam right now.  Maybe it won't spread anything like as widely or as quickly in the US, but this has got to be a scary time to be in Italy.  Others of us in Europe are thinking...well, where Italy is now, the rest of us will probably be in a fortnight's time. 

[justwhoiam]

59 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

JustwhoIam mentioned being from the most affected Western area - which is Italy.  The confirmed infection rate there has gone from around a dozen to just under 1700 in about 10 days.

My area was considered yellow zone, not red zone. But now it looks apparent that we are red zone as 3 regions are now red zones. Schools closed for another week (but we were expecting that, as contagion is up 500%+) Honestly, I couldn't care less about some guy mocking people online about something he knows zero about. I take any information, and then decide for myself. I tend to believe serious scientists who admit they still know little about the virus and are learning along the way, rather than those who just after 2 days were SURE what the cause was and labelling any discordant voice as rumors.

They officially said animals couldn't be infected. Oh yeah, now there's a dog that tested positive in Hong Kong. The media: first case! BS, it's just that pets weren't tested anywhere, they are already trying to cut down on tests on people. So big fail: quarantining people and not pets. So believing official sources needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, always. And unofficial sources might contain a grain of truth.

[alphamale]

2nd US corona virus death in NY

[SincereOnlineGuy]

6 hours ago, gaius said:

This particular strain is most deadly in the elderly and rarely effects children @SincereOnlineGuy. It seems like you're not paying much attention to the information that's out there, or if you are just not really comprehending it.

If you want to take a break from the rocking chair and participate in the conversation then by all means. But it's almost like you're posting in the wrong thread because you don't seem to know or understand what's going on. There's plenty of good references and links on the preceding pages if you need a little help.

How in the world would a super virus effect children? 

 

LOL -  talk about not knowing what's going on.

 

Maybe go to a different website to learn about the birds and the bees... "if you need a little help".

 

 

You are (still) further incorrect when you suggest that a self-contained establishment from which few people need to exit and go out into the population masses, is "just about the worst place (the virus) could get into".

(that would be akin to saying:   "South Sentinel Island is about the worst place the Corona virus could get to"  )

 

You are just trying to breed hysteria here, in much the same way as the TV newsmedia.

 

The rest of us can understand their motives, (which are  more viewers and more ad revenue), but your own hidden agenda for creating this hysteria is a much greater concern than is the hysteria you are so eagerly pursuing.

[gaius]

Since you don't seem to know much more about nursing homes than you do the virus @SincereOnlineGuy let me explain. They aren't "self-contained establishments". Staff don't live there, there's usually a lot of staff, they're in close contact with the patients, come in and out like any employee, go out in public, go shopping, take public transportation. There is no less chance of spread from a nursing home than a daycare, the only difference being the virus will kill the patients in the nursing home and not the children in the daycare.

In Washington there are apparently almost as many infected staff members as there are patients. Close to 30 at this point. And I'm guessing they, their families, the people in their community and everyone else who's being directly effected by this virus would find more comfort in a honest conversation about it rather than borderline incoherent ramblings about HIV and the media delivered in randomly italicized and bolded text. But if it makes you feel better.

[Libby1]

3 hours ago, gaius said:

Since you don't seem to know much more about nursing homes than you do the virus @SincereOnlineGuy let me explain. They aren't "self-contained establishments". Staff don't live there, there's usually a lot of staff, they're in close contact with the patients, come in and out like any employee, go out in public, go shopping, take public transportation.

My father lives in a home.  When you visit, you sign in and I'll often look back several pages to see if he's had other visitors in the last few days.  There are probably a few dozen visitors every day.  Relatives, friends, professionals and volunteers.  Obviously on top of that there are the staff members, maintenance people etc.  There are outings for the residents a couple of times a week, and visiting friends or relatives will often take their old people out for lunch.  I did that with my dad for the first few months, but then it became unfeasaible.

 When there are viruses on the go, obviously the home asks people not to visit if they have any symptoms - but this virus seems to be one that often shows no symptoms for the first couple of weeks.  Some people will visit from a long distance (or even, on occasion, from overseas) to see their parent.  And of course, there tends to be a lot of kissing of cheeks, hand holding etc between relatives and parents and also staff and patients, since that's an important part of care and quality of life.

I don't know why you're being accused of fearmongering for starting and contributing to a thread about this issue.  This is a global story that's certainly now a regular feature of main news programmes where I live and I assume even more so where the virus has hit heavily.  It's absolutely relevant to have a thread about it on a forum that has contributors from all over the world.  If people aren't interested in the story, think it's overblown or find it stressful to read updates, they don't have to read the thread...

[Redhead14]

I don't know how anyone here can say with certainty whether it's being  overblown or not.  It's a matter of hoping for the best and preparing for and doing what can be done to prevent the worst.  No one knows for sure who will or will not be affected so seriously as to die because of it.  So we need to be careful.  There's no need to panic, just operate as if one of your kids or family members might get it and possibly die.  It's about operating with an abundance of caution and concern for everyone and ultimately ourselvse.  No one has said we should panic.  Be prepared, not scared.  What's the harm in taking a few extra steps and precautions for a while??

The larger problem is that the more people who expose themselves, whether it affects them seriously or not, the more other people who are likely to become exposed and then overwhelming the medical care systems of communities/cities/countries.  It's not so much that one could die from it, it's the concern that any sniffle, etc. might be COVID and running to the ER.  If the hospitals are overrun with non-Covid cases, the really serious cases get delayed care, if at all.  Who wants to be one of these people?

Anyone who ignores or downplays it and doesn't take precautions is just one more potential "carrier".  The reason SARS, etc. isn't still an issue was that containment was quicker and successful. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Redhead14

[contel3]

I don't know if its overblown, but there's been the first case at my work place. Everyone's panicking, it's quite s***ty.

[Redhead14]

1 minute ago, contel3 said:

I don't know if its overblown, but there's been the first case at my work place. Everyone's panicking, it's quite s***ty.

I'm sorry, Contel.  It must be unnerving.  Are you under quarantine?

[Redhead14]

Don't forget, if you're taking precautions against Corona, you're also taking precautions against any other virus/cold so that there at least fewer people running to the hospital over fear of corona.

[contel3]

26 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

I'm sorry, Contel.  It must be unnerving.  Are you under quarantine?

It is quite unnerving especially since we don't know how long this is going to last. I hate being stuck at home. 

 

[Redhead14]

7 minutes ago, contel3 said:

It is quite unnerving especially since we don't know how long this is going to last. I hate being stuck at home. 

 

I bet you were caught a little off guard.  Were you previously one of the people who felt there wasn't much to worry about and downplayed everything?  I'm not going to criticize you if you were.  I just want to point out that no one knows for sure what's what and should take all this seriously.

Where do you live?

As for being stuck at home, see it as a way to help the cause for containment and getting through this period perhaps more quickly and possibly making it go away altogether.  The alternative is keep walking around exposing more people who in turn expose more people, causing all kinds of shortages, and further disruptions.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Redhead14

[contel3]

Just now, Redhead14 said:

I bet you were caught a little off guard.  Were you previously one of the people who felt there wasn't much to worry about and downplayed everything?  I'm not going to criticize you if you were.  I just want to point out that no one knows for sure what's what and should take all this seriously.

As for being stuck at home, see it as a way to help the cause for containment and getting through this period perhaps more quickly and possibly making it go away altogether.

I don't think I've been downplaying it...like I wasn't worried about myself since I'm not a high risk group. Actually I don't think I even thought too much about it, I was kinda like yeah, it's probably going to stay in Wuhan....I was really surprised when it didn't. 

Honestly I have no idea how dangerous it is or isn't. But I would feel extremely bad if other people who actually are at risk died because of me. 

 

[Ellener]

I'm not panicking, but my mild cold is turning into a mild cough, and here the pollen gets super-high in March so everyone starts coughing and sneezing anyway. 

We haven't started cancelling things en masse here yet, but if that happens I always keep money aside, being self-employed, I won't starve/fail to pay rent. I already cleared my credit cards and set up automatic payments so things don't get forgotten.

The nursing homes will go into quarantine if people get sick, so that work will dry up. I may set up a video-cam service for the places which are high-tech and they can live-stream me on a large screen.

I've got a supply of 'puppy pads' for the dog and bottled water and soup and cold powders and vitamins, I can comfortably isolate myself and wait it out.

I had 'flu some years ago which turned into pneumonia, the key was rest, liquids and keeping the fever down. I didn't even go to the doctor until several days in- I wasn't well enough to go out or drive safely! but went to get antibiotics eventually to clear up the residual respiratory and sinus infections.

 

 

[Redhead14]

On 1/28/2020 at 7:46 AM, stillafool said:

Why doesn't the US stop flights from China from coming here until they get this virus under control?

They have done that.  It doesn't eliminate the problem because the virus is asymptomic for a lot of people for two weeks.  So there may have been people who came into the country before they even knew they were sick . . . it, of course, prevents further carriers from coming and spreading to more people.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Redhead14

[serial muse]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

I'm not panicking, but my mild cold is turning into a mild cough, and here the pollen gets super-high in March so everyone starts coughing and sneezing anyway. .

Yeah, we're entering into pollen season early this year where I live, because it's been really warm this winter, and no snow. So a whole lot of people around me are sniffling away, including my husband.

It's hard not to have a fear response to this, even though I know perfectly well he gets seasonal allergies, and has no other symptoms, and there have been no confirmed cases in my area yet. Sigh. 

But IMO this is also why it's so important to both know/practice best practices (hand-washing, don't touch face, etc) and also focus on the actual problem at hand rather than seeking out conspiracies as a self-soothing mechanism. And why it's important to have solid, grounded leadership right now, that will tell us the truth in a calm way. Because it's really easy to slip into paranoia when one is scared, and when so much is unknown. 

[pepperbird]

7 hours ago, Libby1 said:

My father lives in a home.  When you visit, you sign in and I'll often look back several pages to see if he's had other visitors in the last few days.  There are probably a few dozen visitors every day.  Relatives, friends, professionals and volunteers.  Obviously on top of that there are the staff members, maintenance people etc.  There are outings for the residents a couple of times a week, and visiting friends or relatives will often take their old people out for lunch.  I did that with my dad for the first few months, but then it became unfeasaible.

 When there are viruses on the go, obviously the home asks people not to visit if they have any symptoms - but this virus seems to be one that often shows no symptoms for the first couple of weeks.  Some people will visit from a long distance (or even, on occasion, from overseas) to see their parent.  And of course, there tends to be a lot of kissing of cheeks, hand holding etc between relatives and parents and also staff and patients, since that's an important part of care and quality of life.

I don't know why you're being accused of fearmongering for starting and contributing to a thread about this issue.  This is a global story that's certainly now a regular feature of main news programmes where I live and I assume even more so where the virus has hit heavily.  It's absolutely relevant to have a thread about it on a forum that has contributors from all over the world.  If people aren't interested in the story, think it's overblown or find it stressful to read updates, they don't have to read the thread...

Most  viruses take several days. weeks to show symptoms. The symptoms are usually the body;s immune response to the virus, not the virus itself.
I don't know why people are painting this as if it's some sort of new thing- never seen before. It's not. It's a virus, and not even one that's all that complex. 

[sothereiwas]

I was under the impression that the novelty in this aspect of the Corona-2019 was the relatively extended period of time that a person was infectious without symptoms, plus the length of viability on surfaces. I have not looked into it deeply.

[Redhead14]

13 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

I was under the impression that the novelty in this aspect of the Corona-2019 was the relatively extended period of time that a person was infectious without symptoms, plus the length of viability on surfaces. I have not looked into it deeply.

That is a fact.  A person can be asymptomatic but contagious from 2 to 14 days after exposure.  That's a problem.  That's the case with other illnesses as well, but . . . ugh.

[Redhead14]

35 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Most  viruses take several days. weeks to show symptoms. The symptoms are usually the body;s immune response to the virus, not the virus itself.
I don't know why people are painting this as if it's some sort of new thing- never seen before. It's not. It's a virus, and not even one that's all that complex. 

I don't see anyone saying that the incubation period for Corona is new.  Covid is new, not the incubation period.  It's true that other viruses have similar incubation period and problem with not knowing about it for a while, however, the "usual" virus isn't so much of a problem.  Entire ships under quarantine and flights being banned, Red Zones being set up in Italy, South Korea, Japan is a sign that this isn't just your run-of-mill virus and needs to be taken seriously.  It's not just one country having a meltdown over it, lots of countries are taking measures to contain/control. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Redhead14