Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[justwhoiam]

13 hours ago, Foxhall said:

I may be wrong but am sure read somewhere that Italy has never mass administered the bcg vaccine,

which may explain why many older Italians have succumbed to the covid 19 virus

Wrong. My parents & all their siblings in their 70s were vaccinated. We were all vaccinated in the North. There might be exceptions, but for the most we were all vaccinated.

[justwhoiam]

12 hours ago, Inflikted said:

In regards to my previous post, apparently a tiger at the Bronx zoo has been confirmed to have the virus, and it's suspected a number of the other animals there have it, too. People elsewhere are saying that if this can spread between animals and humans, then it's pretty much game over for the human race.

Very weird. I do wonder how that happened. Are humans so close to a tiger?? Maybe some human entered the tiger's space to clean it out?

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, justwhoiam said:

wonder how that happened

Asymptomatic zoo keeper apparently.

I'm sure that animal is well-cared for, though I guess that's a new argument against keeping her in a zoo. But

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52125309 highlights the dangers ( and cruelty no doubt ) of the global wildlife trade.

'Scientists have for decades been drawing attention to outbreaks of human diseases that have originated in animals, including Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (Sars), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers) and Ebola.

The message from the New York-based Wildlife Conservation Society is clear: ban live animal markets that trade in wildlife, stop illegal trafficking and poaching of wild animals.

"Not only will this help prevent the spread of disease, it will address one of the major drivers of species extinction," says the society.'

[Philosopher]

42 minutes ago, justwhoiam said:

Wrong. My parents & all their siblings in their 70s were vaccinated. We were all vaccinated in the North. There might be exceptions, but for the most we were all vaccinated.

School kids in the UK and France were vaccinated with the BCG vaccine in the second half the 20th century. If the BCG vaccine results in less severe or fewer cases of COVID-19 then I would expect these countries to have relatively small outbreaks of COVID-19. Unfortunately both countries are having quite large outbreaks. In the UK there are quite a few reports of people in their 30’s in ICU who should have received the BCG vaccine.

[justwhoiam]

7 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Asymptomatic zoo keeper apparently

That doesn't explain the contagion. Maybe the zoo keeper touched raw meat fed to the tiger and that's how the tiger got infected? Still unclear. There was a case in Miami where a zoo keeper didn't follow protocol and was feeding a tiger with her hands as a reward and she got bitten by the tiger.

[serial muse]

14 hours ago, Inflikted said:

In regards to my previous post, apparently a tiger at the Bronx zoo has been confirmed to have the virus, and it's suspected a number of the other animals there have it, too. People elsewhere are saying that if this can spread between animals and humans, then it's pretty much game over for the human race.

As I said upthread somewhere, this coronavirus is known to be able to bind to the same protein (ACE2) in several species, including humans - cats, monkeys, bats and ferrets among them. A pet cat was previously thought to have coronavirus, although the disease can look somewhat different in animals.

BUT. An important point here is that this does not appear to be a pandemic for pets, or we would 100% already know this by now. It may be difficult for them to shed enough virus, for example, to transmit it (considered "dead-end" hosts for the virus); it's a good idea to clean litter boxes, etc., with precautions like gloves and masks, just in case, but that's a far cry from the wild transmissibility of this virus among humans.

In the case of this zoo, it's not thought that the animals transmitted it to one another, but that an asympomatic zookeeper was the one to transmit it to the different animals that tested positive for it. (The zoo has been closed for weeks, and the animals aren't all in the same pens, so it's the only explanation that would make sense.)

What I'm saying is, this particular finding is a lot worse for the animals than for the humans.

 

Edit: As for how the zookeeper may have transmitted the virus - droplets, probably. Although s/he was asymptomatic, the zookeeper was still shedding virus when s/he coughed or spit or whatever.

Edited April 6, 2020 by serial muse

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, serial muse said:

or spit

Interesting you mention that, after Harvey I lived in a run-down apartment complex with people from all over the world. Lot of overcrowding and poverty but something I got mad about a lot- people ( men ) routinely spat outdoors on the ground. A lot. It's not polite or pleasant, and it's not hygienic.

Last week I saw a man going to his car spit on the ground, that's what reminded me of living there.

But my point here is, spitting hasn't been mentioned as one of the things people should not be doing right now. 

 

[justwhoiam]

45 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Interesting you mention that, after Harvey I lived in a run-down apartment complex with people from all over the world. Lot of overcrowding and poverty but something I got mad about a lot- people ( men ) routinely spat outdoors on the ground. A lot. It's not polite or pleasant, and it's not hygienic.

Last week I saw a man going to his car spit on the ground, that's what reminded me of living there.

But my point here is, spitting hasn't been mentioned as one of the things people should not be doing right now.

We can't go out without wearing a mask now, so it'd be hard to spit with one on... Also, I guess that's a cultural thing. In China they spit a lot. And I guess in those countries where they chew tobacco or cocaine leaves or that kind of thing. Luckily, I've never seen anyone spitting in the U.S., maybe the occasional homless guy...

[serial muse]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

Interesting you mention that, after Harvey I lived in a run-down apartment complex with people from all over the world. Lot of overcrowding and poverty but something I got mad about a lot- people ( men ) routinely spat outdoors on the ground. A lot. It's not polite or pleasant, and it's not hygienic.

Last week I saw a man going to his car spit on the ground, that's what reminded me of living there.

But my point here is, spitting hasn't been mentioned as one of the things people should not be doing right now. 

 

Ack, no, let's not go down that road. Good lord.

Cultural questions aside, I didn't mean like spitting on the ground. I meant like spitting when you speak, which we all do all the time. That's why the masks are recommended - they prevent us from transmitting to others while we're talking to them, or breathing or singing or whatever.

(I'm referring to the recent finding that a singing group that got together for a practice while maintaining the requisite 6 feet distance from one another was still a hotbed of transmission - because singing forcefully causes you to send out droplets farther. Also why if you're out running/exercising you need to give people a wide berth or else wear a mask or ideally both.)

And of course we are not yet sure whether the virus is aerosolized. So this zookeeper was maybe just breathing.

Edited April 6, 2020 by serial muse

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, serial muse said:

aerosolized.

We certainly have a whole new vocabulary through all this.

Here's an explanation about it https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/should-you-wear-a-face-mask-to-prevent-covid-19-doctors-weigh-in.html 

[Azincourt]

Quote

Staggering Surge Of NYers Dying In Their Homes Suggests City Is Undercounting Coronavirus Fatalities

Quote

200 city residents are now dying at home each day, compared to 20 to 25 such deaths before the pandemic . . . .

The FDNY says it responded to 2,192 cases of deaths at home between March 20th and April 5th, or about 130 a day, an almost 400 percent increase from the same time period last year. (In 2019, there were just 453 cardiac arrest calls where a patient died, according to the FDNY.)

Quote

“While undiagnosed cases that result in at-home deaths are connected to a public health pandemic...not all suspected COVID-19 deaths are brought in for examination by OCME, nor do we provide testing in most of these natural at-home deaths,” Lanza said.

Quote

U.K.'s Boris Johnson Remains in Intensive Care With COVID-19 but Is Not on Ventilator, Says Cabinet Minister

Quote

“Over the course of this afternoon, the condition of the prime minister has worsened and, on the advice of his medical team, he has been moved to the intensive care unit at the hospital,” a spokesperson said.

And that's one of the most powerful men in the world. This virus doesn't  choose race, social class, or age group. Stay-in doors, homies. Stay safe.

[RecentChange]

5 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

And that's one of the most powerful men in the world. This virus doesn't  choose race, social class, or age group. Stay-in doors, homies. Stay safe.

Yep.

Our county was the first in the nation to ban large gatherings, and the SF Bay area was the first to order shelter in place.

AND ITS WORKING.

The curve is flattening. We are staying well within hospital capacity. 

The rate of new cases is slowing. Our doubling time is increasing. Cases per capita are less than other parts of the country despite our area having the virus first. 

STAY AT HOME. When you must go out, socially distance and WEAR A MASK.

[Azincourt]

And wear surgical gloves. If the supermarket or the grocer's doesn't have those gloves, wear the dish-washing gloves. As long as they are clean and when you go back home you use hot water and bleach to wash them, put them in a bucket full of hot water and bleach for 30 minutes to one hour.

[RecentChange]

3 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

And wear surgical gloves. If the supermarket or the grocer's doesn't have those gloves, wear the dish-washing gloves. As long as they are clean and when you go back home you use hot water and bleach to wash them, put them in a bucket full of hot water and bleach for 30 minutes to one hour.

Gotta be really careful with cross containing with gloves.

If you wear gloves, then touch your phone, car keys, products in the store etc - then the gloves really won't do much good. If you touched something with the gloves, now it's everywhere else 

I wear cotton gloves when grocery shopping as a reminder to not to touch my face, phone etc. Gloves come off before I get in my car, then I use hand sanitizer, and then a hot water / soap wash as soon as I get home.

Produce gets washed, packaging disposed of or wiped down with disinfectant. Then counters, front door knob etc get wiped down.

It's a whole damn routine for my every 10 day grocery shopping trip, but better safe than sorry. 

[Gaeta]

RE: Gloves

Gloves don't have much purpose if you touch your face while wearing them and while you wear your gloves if you touch the virus at the grocery store, then touch your car door, then your steering wheel, your purse...I don't see how gloves protects you from anything. There is a very specific way of removing gloves so you don't infect yourself and 75% of people don't know about this.

[Azincourt]

7 minutes ago, RecentChange said:

Gotta be really careful with cross containing with gloves.

If you wear gloves, then touch your phone, car keys, products in the store etc - then the gloves really won't do much good. If you touched something with the gloves, now it's everywhere else 

I wear cotton gloves when grocery shopping as a reminder to not to touch my face, phone etc. Gloves come off before I get in my car, then I use hand sanitizer, and then a hot water / soap wash as soon as I get home.

Produce gets washed, packaging disposed of or wiped down with disinfectant. Then counters, front door knob etc get wiped down.

It's a whole damn routine for my every 10 day grocery shopping trip, but better safe than sorry. 

yeah, that's pretty smart. I know a guy who does that. He always wears cotton gloves going out, and the facial masks. He doesn't touch his face, and he makes sure to touch hard surfaces as little as possible. He doesn't bring his phone with him, just his house keys and car keys, and he only touches the grocery's products when he's 100% sure he's going to buy them,  to make it safe for everyone else.

He has a bunch load of cotton gloves that he switches from and to, while the bleaches the used gloves. He also always washed his hand for 1 minute through and through, then uses hand sanitizer, and only then does he get his cotton gloves on. When he comes home, he takes care of the gloves, washes his hands again, then washes his wrists and his face and neck.

better be paranoid than dead, man.

[RecentChange]

Yep, it's all probably over kill but I rather error on the side of caution. The virus is in my neighborhood, so I try to pretend like I am a silent carrier and use precaution - and I assume when I am at the store for instance, there are infected people there with me. 

I don't take my purse into the store, just car keys and a credit card in my back pocket. Keys and card get wiped down with a Clorox wipe. 

[Redhead14]

My daughter who is 31 and diabetic just now called me to say that she's been coughing and has a sore throat . . . ugh.  She doesn't have a thermometer so her husband is coming by to get one from me in a little while.

[gaius]

I'm starting to see a lot of latex gloves just laying around parking lots.

I guess a good way to avoid contaminating your car or self is just to strip them off and drop them but the effect on the environment is debatable.

[FMW]

1 minute ago, gaius said:

latex gloves just laying around parking lots.

Yes, I've noticed that too. There are plenty of ways to avoid contamination without littering and leaving more germs around for others to come in contact with.  So frustrating.

[amaysngrace]

I just take my gloves off and throw them in a bag in the back seat of my car.  If they’re inside out like they’re suppose to be it’s fine.  I also wear shirts with pockets to the grocery store to hold my keys and hand sanitizer.  I hate that my shirt is heavy but no way am I bringing a handbag in there.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

My daughter who is 31 and diabetic just now called me to say that she's been coughing and has a sore throat . . . ugh.  She doesn't have a thermometer so her husband is coming by to get one from me in a little while.

Hope she's ok.

[Gaeta]

Here when we enter the grocery stores it's only 1 person per family, a security guy at the door has us wash our hands with soap at a sink they installed there, then once our hands are washed another employee is giving us a shopping cart that they sanatize the handle right in front of us. Inside we have marks on the floor to where we need to stand in line, the ailes are also one-ways so we never cross someone. It's very well handled. 

[Azincourt]

18 minutes ago, gaius said:

I'm starting to see a lot of latex gloves just laying around parking lots.

I guess a good way to avoid contaminating your car or self is just to strip them off and drop them but the effect on the environment is debatable.

Yeah, I seen that too. When I'm on the window looking out, I see a lot of latex gloves sitting on the road and pavement. People have no concern for the enviroment.

[FMW]

I have a small zippered case that holds my driver's license, credit card and keys that I clip to a lanyard that I wear around my neck.  I keep wipes and hand sanitizer in my car to wipe down everything on the car I touch.  And then there's the whole ordeal of sanitizing the groceries once inside.

Grocery shopping is exhausting!  It's been 9 days now so I'm going to have to go again soon.  The next trip will be my first wearing a mask (an improvised scarf)  According to  my local news video almost everyone else is doing that now, which wasn't the case on my last grocery shopping trip.  I'm going to forego the gloves for now.