Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Libby1]

6 hours ago, gaius said:

As far as facemasks go, I guess one of the main reasons public health officials have been discouraging their use is because this virus doesn't fit their traditional definition of "airborne". Even though it's clearly spreading through the air in many cases. Like the choir incident in Washington state.

So it's official. No ulterior motive. They really are just that stupid. 

 

I've read in a few sources that the CDC is reviewing its guidance on the public wearing masks.  Mainly, I understand, because of increasing concerns that the virus is being spread by asymptomatic people...a problem which could be reduced with more widespread use of masks.  

[Azincourt]

if the corona virus is truly airbone, then the reason why they aren't the population know about it is because they're terrified that people will panic. Strange how we've managed to reach the Moon, but a tiny organism is putting down to the ground the western civilization.

So now people can't even spend time with their windows open because the air transports the virus?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

38 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

if the corona virus is truly airbone, then the reason why they aren't the population know about it is because they're terrified that people will panic. Strange how we've managed to reach the Moon, but a tiny organism is putting down to the ground the western civilization.

So now people can't even spend time with their windows open because the air transports the virus?

The Coronavirus is 'airborne' ONLY in the sense that a rolled-up Persian rug hurled off of the top of a skyscraper is ever 'airborne'.

It doesn't linger in the air like ice fog just waiting for (what would be millions more victims than it presently finds).

 

The ancient comedian, Gallagher, would call the Coronavirus "airborne", but it is not techically so.

 

People have already panicked... and that is precisely why we are in the spot we're in.

 

China, first and foremost panicked  about how the world would critique their sickening unsanitary food habits and thus they picked some arbitrary number to report to the WHO, rather than inform the whole world of the actual truth concerning the millions of corona cases there.

Everyone down the line has been harmed by China's deliberate camouflaging of the actual truth... and the full brunt of that probably won't be felt until Africa is completely bowled-over by the virus in due time.

[Ruby Slippers]

You can judge and rage against others' behavior that you don't agree with. Personally, I believe it's a waste of energy, because ranting criticism won't convince anyone to reconsider their methods. One catches more flies with honey - compassion, support, education given in a spirit of love and sharing has a greater impact.

[Libby1]

30 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

The Coronavirus is 'airborne' ONLY in the sense that a rolled-up Persian rug hurled off of the top of a skyscraper is ever 'airborne'.

It doesn't linger in the air like ice fog just waiting for (what would be millions more victims than it presently finds).

Commentary about how this virus behaves is probably best left to those who are actual experts in virus transmission.  It sounds as though researchers are still trying to get to grips with it, and the question of whether we ought to be concerned about airborne transmission is clearly a contentious topic among experts.  I think people who are behaving as though transmission can be airborne, are probably being sensibly cautious - given the lack of expert consensus about the nature of this virus.  

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/28/823292062/who-reviews-available-evidence-on-coronavirus-transmission-through-air

Edited April 1, 2020 by Libby1

[The Outlaw]

We've been issued stay at home orders as of Friday at 5 PM until 8 AM on Monday, April 20th. We had an idea it was coming sooner or later.  

[littleblackheart]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Perhaps if I turned it back on and blocked all my friends and news from my feed and just kept the feeds relating to my interests it could work for me.  

You could give it a try but fair warning: my fb feed is still covered with C19 stuff whatever I do.

 

I mean I followed everything to the letter straight way, the social distancing, the barely going out, the keeping enough food for 14 days, the occasional volunteering to help bring food to self-isolating people so they don't go out, the washing hands compulsively, all this despite Johnson's bizarre herd immunity 'strategy'. I did (and still do) my due diligence, and one of my kids still got a mild version of it.

It's quite clearly everywhere already, it's quite clearly affecting more people than we know, it's quite clearly an A-grade virus doing its virus job to the highest standards it can, it's quite clear we need to follow national guidelines as a baseline. I work from home, go out shopping once every 10 days, go for a walk in my neighbourhood as per guidelines and socialise on zoom.

 

I don't know what else there is to do.

[gaius]

2 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

People have already panicked... and that is precisely why we are in the spot we're in.

We're in the spot we're in because for months a lot of people, you included Sincere, didn't take this seriously. There's like half a dozen posts of yours in this thread I could quote about how this was no big deal and it wasn't going to spread. And the precautions we needed to put in place never got put in place.

Seems like a lot of people who were just outright oblivious are now blaming China but all the information you needed was right in front of you.

[gaius]

2 hours ago, Libby1 said:

Commentary about how this virus behaves is probably best left to those who are actual experts in virus transmission.  It sounds as though researchers are still trying to get to grips with it, and the question of whether we ought to be concerned about airborne transmission is clearly a contentious topic among experts.  I think people who are behaving as though transmission can be airborne, are probably being sensibly cautious - given the lack of expert consensus about the nature of this virus.  

There was a study out of China around a month ago about a certain man who got on a bus and ended up infecting a whole bunch of other passengers. Including some 4-5 rows behind him. And one who got on the bus 30 minutes after he got off.

The most interesting part? None of the passengers wearing masks ended up infected. Even the ones sitting in close proximity. This isn't new information, it's been floating around for quite a while.

If our own intellectuals want to debate until the cows come home about whether this meets their academic definition of airborne or not that's fine, but they're idiots for assuming the only way you get this is through touching infected surfaces, considering the information that's been out there for a while.

[gaius]

4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

#STFH is a trending hashtag for reasons.

By mid March, the entire US  and much of the world has had access to solid information about how this virus has brilliantly succeeded to wreak the destruction that it has.  It hinges on 2 things :  travel and gathering.  Just because someone lives in a state where the government has not chosen to put restrictions in place, this has no bearing on the reality of how this is spread and what the outcomes of travel and gathering WILL be.

Didn't think we'd ever agree on anything Nuevo but well put. 

It's been hard enough not to tell the New Yorkers I've seen driving around Florida to go back to New York in person, to not even shame them online would be unbearable. 

[gaius]

If anyone is wondering why there's suddenly a massive conspiracy theory that China is somehow hiding it's true number of cases, it's simple really. Blame shifting. 

"Deborah Birx, the doctor-diplomat who’s leading the White House response to COVID-19, made it clear at a briefing this week: “When you looked at the China data originally,” she said, “you start thinking of this more like SARS than you do a global pandemic.” It wasn’t until data started coming out of Italy and Spain that public-health officials realized the problem would be far bigger “than anyone expected.”

In other words, if Beijing had reported the true size of the outbreak there, public-health experts would’ve been sounding much louder alarms at the start — and the rest of the world would have begun making much greater preparations, sooner.

The data this could turn into what it did was there, they just misinterpreted it. Despite all their training and degrees they made some of the most ignorant decision making history has ever recorded and they don't want to own up to it. But they need to. Or else this could happen again.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, gaius said:

We're in the spot we're in because for months a lot of people, you included Sincere, didn't take this seriously.

There are also world leaders who don't/didn't take this seriously.   If the leaders are saying it's all going to go away, it's no surprise that some people believe them.  

When mixed messages abound, people will believe different things.

[Ellener]

10 hours ago, simpycurious said:

Maybe, a few days on a boat might not be a bad idea about now. 

In Houston we've all had that thought with every flood 

Depends on the boat I guess, a solitary boat would be nice 

With no television!

[Libby1]

1 hour ago, gaius said:

The data this could turn into what it did was there, they just misinterpreted it. Despite all their training and degrees they made some of the most ignorant decision making history has ever recorded and they don't want to own up to it. But they need to. Or else this could happen again.

I think their emphasis was on trying to prevent public panic (with all the stockpiling that can result/has resulted from that).  They maybe have succeeded in that aim to an extent.  The panic could have been a lot worse than it was, but the cost of that "keeping panic down" measure has been that people will lose faith in public health experts.  Particularly when you have something like the WHO and your US Surgeon General giving very definite advice for people to not wear masks - and WHO in particular claiming that there is no risk of airborne infection when information about this virus is so incomplete.  If the advice about not wearing masks proves to be bad advice, I do think they'll happily blame China in an attempt to avoid taking responsibility.

The future of the EU has probably never been as uncertain as it is right now.  The EU is perceived as sitting on its hands while China and Russia send help to badly stricken nations.  At a time of crisis, countries find themselves entirely dependent on their national governments, and this is inevitably going to stir up strong feelings of nationalism.  Lack of faith in the EU as it appears to become something of an irrelevance at a time of genuine crisis.  I do think that suits both China and Russia, and no doubt there's some opportunism going on right now in terms of them helping EU countries in ways that very much highlight the EU's apparent lack of a meaningful, productive role right now. 

I'm sure the Chinese and Russian governments are well aware of how this is leaving the EU looking.  But nonetheless, thaeirhelp is a Godsend to countries like Italy and Spain...and, probably, the UK very soon as we're very close behind those countries in terms of the daily fatality rates (the US, given its much larger population, still hasn't reached anything like Italian levels).

Edited April 2, 2020 by Libby1

[Ellener]

6 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

I don't know what else there is to do.

Pray, hope, love your family...and following the guidelines you are. Is your boy better now?

 

 

 

[Ellener]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ is where I have been following the statistics.

I also looked up the statistics on medical facilities/beds in the USA https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals plus most cities are pre-organising 'field hospitals' 

[chillii]

5 hours ago, gaius said:

We're in the spot we're in because for months a lot of people, you included Sincere, didn't take this seriously. There's like half a dozen posts of yours in this thread I could quote about how this was no big deal and it wasn't going to spread. And the precautions we needed to put in place never got put in place.

Seems like a lot of people who were just outright oblivious are now blaming China but all the information you needed was right in front of you.

l've never bothered about any of the others or the flues maybe l should've but l didn't. This one l first started seeing stuff about guessing 5wks ago but right there it was very very obvious this thing was gonna fk things right up and l thought right then they need to be into lockdown right there and then. Think we had about 50 cases here at the time , 5k now .

What else l find even more mind boggling though is the money governments all over the world are spending and the things they're talking about economy wise and just all of it really. This whole thing is truly just absolutely mind blowing times isn't it.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

This whole thing is truly just absolutely mind blowing times isn't it.

It is.

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

You can judge and rage against others' behavior that you don't agree with. Personally, I believe it's a waste of energy, because ranting criticism won't convince anyone to reconsider their methods. One catches more flies with honey - compassion, support, education given in a spirit of love and sharing has a greater impact.

Those of us who are appalled by blatant disregard  for the well being of others are not expecting to change minds of people who are functioning on that level.  If  graphic visuals and first hand accounts of reality in NYC and Italy won't do it,   along with countless scholarly articles, public service announcements,  briefs by the Surgeon General, etc,  clearly the opinions of Internet strangers won't.  

Don't take anything I say  or that you read as personal criticism.  People are gonna do what they want, and for some of us that includes venting on on the Internet or to our friends and loved ones when we have strong convictions about something.   

But, seriously;   "compassion, support, education, given in a spirit of love and sharing"?      Sure, for those who are doing their part, and it's not fun.  Especially for the sick and people working to try to help them at great risk to themselves, like my daughter is.   The sharing is happening, anyway - sharing the coronavirus.   

 #STFH

 

 

[littleblackheart]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

Pray, hope, love your family...and following the guidelines you are. Is your boy better now?

 

 

 

He is, thank you. It looks like his sister and I swerved it for some reason.

What I really want to know is whether we are going to take heed of this call of Nature, or whether we are going to 'return to normal' like nothing's happened when this blows over, like the sheeple we are, with useless economic wars and sanctions crippling other nations so we get cheap oil, hyper consumerism, bigotry, religious hatred, racism, manufactured 24/7 news... The more I see what some gvts are getting away with while no-one's looking by granting themselves full powers, the less hope I have. I just don't know low 'we' must sink as a collective before 'we' find our humanity again... 

Edited April 2, 2020 by littleblackheart

[chillii]

Sadly l'd say nope it won't change much later and unfortunately everything will just get back to going in the direction it has for a century. Problem mostly none of the people running shows, governments, understand the planet or nature and are the least connected to it of all, so even most of their answers to most of our latest problems , like global and planet warming and the many other biggies, still go completely against nature and the way it needs to work to survive and provide , and humans aren't much different .

And l don't see how they can ever avoid or stop things like more viruses or so many other things either because once again everything we do the way we live or say in this one, like millions of people criss crossing the globe in hours from anywhere on the planet daily and doubling by the year and sending all these things where they weren't meant to go, once again goes completely against the natural scheme like everything else we do.

[Azincourt]

10 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

You could give it a try but fair warning: my fb feed is still covered with C19 stuff whatever I do.

 

I mean I followed everything to the letter straight way, the social distancing, the barely going out, the keeping enough food for 14 days, the occasional volunteering to help bring food to self-isolating people so they don't go out, the washing hands compulsively, all this despite Johnson's bizarre herd immunity 'strategy'. I did (and still do) my due diligence, and one of my kids still got a mild version of it.

It's quite clearly everywhere already, it's quite clearly affecting more people than we know, it's quite clearly an A-grade virus doing its virus job to the highest standards it can, it's quite clear we need to follow national guidelines as a baseline. I work from home, go out shopping once every 10 days, go for a walk in my neighbourhood as per guidelines and socialise on zoom.

 

I don't know what else there is to do.

That's the thing with having a family.

We can have the uttermost care to not catch anything, but a family member can still catch it and spread it to the other members of the family. Or even people who are single but have a dog, they can do everything just right, and yet they might become infected walking the dog just because.

Germany's Chancellor says she believes 70% to 80% of the German population will become infected with the corona virus. From there to the rest of Europe... But lots and lots of people don't respect the curfew laws. I see people from my window going about their day outside, without gloves, without mask, without social distancing. Mostly old people in their 60s +

I watch them from my window talk to each other out there on the street, without any distance between them.  I get it, several of these folks are probably tired of being alive, so they don't care if they catch the virus, or maybe they're just suffer from low IQ and low empathy and can't figure out they aren't immune to the virus. The problem is them passing it to their children and their grandchildren.

[Azincourt]

Quote

Sadly l'd say nope it won't change much later and unfortunately everything will just get back to going in the direction it has for a century. Problem mostly none of the people running shows, governments, understand the planet or nature and are the least connected to it of all, so even most of their answers to most of our latest problems , like global and planet warming and the many other biggies, still go completely against nature and the way it needs to work to survive and provide , and humans aren't much different .

Quote

 

I'm always amazed when I look at ants and I realize that their species is nearly 200 million years old, whereas modern man is only 300.000 years old, and 70.000 years ago there were only 2000 human beings living on planet earth at the time. How easy it would've been for us to be completely wiped out if the corona virus existed 70.000 years ago.

All it takes is one catastrophical event for all of the Universe's intelligent life(human beings) to vanish and to leave the Universe empty of sentient beings. But the leader of the world would rather keep the stockmarket going than saving lives, even though the world's economy is already ruined as it is.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Azincourt

[chillii]

Ants are incredible aren't they, far far smarter than us , anything in nature is, modern us anyway.

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

He is, thank you. It looks like his sister and I swerved it for some reason.

What I really want to know is whether we are going to take heed of this call of Nature, or whether we are going to 'return to normal' like nothing's happened when this blows over, like the sheeple we are, with useless economic wars and sanctions crippling other nations so we get cheap oil, hyper consumerism, bigotry, religious hatred, racism, manufactured 24/7 news... The more I see what some gvts are getting away with while no-one's looking by granting themselves full powers, the less hope I have. I just don't know low 'we' must sink as a collective before 'we' find our humanity again... 

That's great news. ((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))

Yes, it seems a strange one how some people get it some don't. 

The distancing seems to be key, in the nursing homes here the people are being asked to stay in their rooms and no group activities and it's been working so far.

I am hopeful for humanity, always, there is a spark of compassion and intelligence of one sort or another in most people. It's greed unseats people, chasing the wrong road to 'happiness'. Power and wealth. 

And as you say bigotry doesn't help. Yes, I noticed the 'power grab' in Hungary, a country where leaders betrayed their people badly before. But look what happened to Ceaușescu...not that I'm advocating summary execution either...people must have freedom and justice and peace.

There's a poem 'Desiderata' which ends 'With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.'

I hold on to that.