Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Azincourt]

3 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I have a pet peeve about Coronavirus: people's judgment about how other people are handling it. 

All over the internet, including on this forum, I've seen people making caustic, judgy comments about people and how they're getting around, whether they're staying with their significant other or not, etc.

I understand that troubled times can bring out people's anxieties and negativity. But it irks me that some people are being so judgmental about how other people conduct themselves and their business. Helpful suggestions are one thing. Snarky judgmental comments about what people are doing or not doing is another.

I know that my comment here won't change it - just airing my grievance.

I don't care if people stay with their significant others, their great-great-grandma's mummy stuffed in the attic, or if they don't believe the corona virus is as dangerous as it really is. What I care about is people not being mindful of each other's health and going about their lives like nothing is wrong. They still need to do what the medical authorities tell them to do.

I see people from my window going out wihout face masks, without gloves, and to them it's like nothing is wrong. A friend of mine called me saying that he saw a dude at the supermarket who was wearing no mask, no gloves. He was touching everything, and then you know what he did?

He rubbed his hands all over his mouth, nose and eyes, and then he continued to touch anything he could find.

These low IQ people need to be heavily fined or sent to jail for a few days to figure out that the world doesn't revolve around them.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Azincourt

[Ruby Slippers]

25 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Exactly. It's all about profit with these late-stage capitalistic nations and people, all that matters is making as much money as possible. What's hilariously sad is that money isn't even real.

Yes, I appreciate that this crisis is truly exposing the absolute obsession of the powers that be with money/power, the real Ponzi scheme that the "civilized" world is. 

Even though I'm in a fairly pampered position in the pyramid, I'm still delighted to see all these worker strikes and rent strikes taking place. I'm grudgingly conforming to this dirty system until I can figure out how to affect meaningful transformation, only because I've figured out that the alternative is martyrdom and suffering.

The only thing people have to lose is their chains!

[Ruby Slippers]

4 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

I see people from my window going out wihout face masks, without gloves, and to them it's like nothing is wrong.

I don't wear that stuff when I go to the store because I don't have it and am pretty sure it's impossible to get right now. But I use the hand wipes in the store, keep my distance from people, avoid touching anything I don't have to, and wash my hands as soon as I'm done.

Next week I start a new job and I have to go to the office, as they're all still working in the office. I'll be working for a government agency classified as essential, though I'm pretty sure I could do all my (mostly computer) work from home. I'm hoping they tell me I can work from home if I want to.

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, serial muse said:

actual real people are getting hurt by this propagation of falsehoods and tribalism. It's not harmless.

sorry to hear that.

It's one of the reasons I became a Unitarian Universalist, they believe 100 % in 'the inherent worth and dignity of all people'. As a Christian I also believe in Matthew 25 and they give away half their collection every week.

I read an article on the BBC yesterday where people in impoverished places simply don't have water to wash hands and follow the prevention advice; sobering thought when people are complaining here because the supermarket ran out of toilet paper! 

 

[Ellener]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51929598

30 % of the world's population...wow

[Ellener]

21 hours ago, preraph said:

She won't fetch anything....

I've had two dogs and neither would.

I've been training mine as something positive to do right now- but 'fetch' is definitely not part of her agenda!

 

[preraph]

Yeah, I don't get it.  I only had one that would.  But whatever she fetched, she would eviscerate immediately.  Had one rubber steak that lasted a while.  Had a couple who would pick it up and be proud of themselves for "finding" it.  Or run around seeing if I'd chase them.  Bah.  

[Ellener]

59 minutes ago, preraph said:

Yeah, I don't get it.  I only had one that would.  But whatever she fetched, she would eviscerate immediately.  Had one rubber steak that lasted a while.  Had a couple who would pick it up and be proud of themselves for "finding" it.  Or run around seeing if I'd chase them.  Bah.  

My dog picks up the item and runs away, drops it and waits for me to retrieve it....I'm missing something here?! 

[preraph]

And you need two dogs, because dogs are pack animals.  People wonder why their lone dog freaks out when they go to work.  That's like the most unnatural thing for a pack animal.  The only time any member of a pack is left alone is when one goes hunting.  My old lab mix didn't like when I was gone, but if I brought food home, she wouldn't bawl me out in dog language.  

[Ellener]

59 minutes ago, preraph said:

you need two dogs

There's another dog here where I currently stay, but my dog prefers to be away from it and that dog likes the run of the downstairs, I quickly separated the two.

So far as my dog is concerned I'm 'the pack' ( and I suspect she's the leader...) 

What I like best about dogs, especially during tough times, they don't talk too much!

[preraph]

I had one dog that I was afraid to get another dog with, mainly because she basically used my sister's puppy like bowling pins.....But she did fall in love with a dog next door once.  He got out once and came to the front window and wooed her.  

I have a seizure dog and it was a very rocky period when I brought her home because my docile old sweet dog didn't like her energy, and I didn't have a clue what was wrong for a long time.  It was kind of brutal. Took a long time and me showing the seizure dog I'd protect her, whereas before, thought it was her fault since the other dog had never acted out before.  So I still have her, the other having passed about 3 weeks ago, and I know she does miss her at times, but not too much, really.  She had a period of adjustment while the old dog was less active in her last months.  

 

But Chickapea, the seizure dog (okay when not in stress), finally started getting out with the rare sunny dry day into the yard after seems like all winter, and I was out working and she hid behind the pampas grass, which is where she'd hide from Myra (a herder) when she wanted to play and be "herded."  So I went and pretended to herd her.  

[Woggle]

Found out that friends of ours from Jersey have it. They are both at home and not hospitalized so it doesn't seem like a severe case. They went to a St Patrick's day party and I told him when everything is back to normal and they are better I am flying to Jersey to kick his butt and my wife is kicking her butt.

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, Ellener said:

My dog picks up the item and runs away, drops it and waits for me to retrieve it....I'm missing something here?! 

Yes human you are supposed to fetch it!    

My dog will fetch a ball, but sticks are for chewing it seems.   He's not completely clear on the fetching process...but he's learning we won;t chase him for a ball or play keep away/tug of war...that is what the rope toys are for.

Now oddly know a cat that loves fetch, you crinkle up a piece of paper and she comes running.

[littleblackheart]

I gave myself 2 days off C19 news and everything related to it; the 'death rate' charts incessantly compared between countries in the media, the 'bad China' chat, the lack of TP, the masks and gloves guilt trips, the politicisation of a virus fgs (how low have we sunk as a culture). I was feeling mentally drained and needed to recharge. I spent the last couple of days like I would spend any other day pre-c19: I worked, went for a walk with my kids, we had a movie night, I had a video chat with my sisters and it was nice. For the first time in what feels like forever, I had a really good night's sleep. 

Most of it is out of our hands, and life has to go on. We do what we have to do, we hope our loved ones swerve it,  we help each other out and we go about business as best we can. This thing is taking enough out of us all, I've decided not to give it my time as well. 

[Happy Lemming]

4 hours ago, Woggle said:

Found out that friends of ours from Jersey have it.

Please keep us informed on their recovery process, if possible.

Thank you.

[Woggle]

7 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Please keep us informed on their recovery process, if possible.

Thank you.

I talked to them on the phone last night and they sounded fine.

[SolG]

16 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Animal to human happens, but animal to "human to human" is a lot rarer.

Rare? Yes, relatively. However, animal to human transmission, followed by human to human transmission is also the cause of EVERY pandemic, EVER. Viruses have the same biological imperative we do - to survive, and thrive. And in this case, we're the host... but as opposed to other hosts, the relationship isn't symbiotic/mutually beneficial. Far from it. And a bat or pangalin or whatever didn't need to be eaten to arrive at this point, it just needed to be in that appropriate proximity to an immuno compromised human host. Just needed a perfect confluence of events to transform/mutate.

Humans have no immunity to this new virus. It's also has a high R0 - approx 1:2.5, plus a high mortality rate amongst the vulnerable = increased probability of high dependency care requirements.

It's simple math. The more we allow it to spread, the more vulnerable will be infected. The more vulnerable infected, the higher demand on high dependency care. The higher demand on high dependency care, the less the health system will be able to cope. The less the health system can cope, the more people will die. And not just COVID-19 cases, but also those 'normal' cases that require high dependency care - accidents, heart attacks, strokes, etc. They will be/are the unrecorded casualities of COVID-19.

Frankly, at this point in time I don't give a flying fig if it was spread by US Marines, a Chinese lab.. or indeed a travelling minstrel from WhoKnowsAStan. The reality is we just need to practice what we knows works to slow the spread so we can save more people - physical distance, good hygiene, protect our vulnerable.

There'll be time enough in the aftermath to play the blame game. I think now we should focus on implementing what we know will flatten the curve.

 

 

 

[Azincourt]

16 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't wear that stuff when I go to the store because I don't have it and am pretty sure it's impossible to get right now. But I use the hand wipes in the store, keep my distance from people, avoid touching anything I don't have to, and wash my hands as soon as I'm done.

Next week I start a new job and I have to go to the office, as they're all still working in the office. I'll be working for a government agency classified as essential, though I'm pretty sure I could do all my (mostly computer) work from home. I'm hoping they tell me I can work from home if I want to.

Yes, that is proper conduct. And let this be a lesson for everyone. After the virus is dealt with in a more permanent situation, stock up on medical supplies, that includes face masks, surgeon gloves, toilet paper, tampons and pads, ethyl alcohol, hand soap, and hand-sanitizer. Stock up on food that can lost for years, water, medication etc.
 

Quote

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51929598

30 % of the world's population...wow

 

 Most of the world's population is poor. Europe, The North American continent, South Africa, and Australia. Those are the only Countries and continents where people live a decent life. India, China, South America, Africa? Extremely poor and underdeveloped nations.

There are rich muslim nations, but they're only rich because of oil. Were they to never have found oil, they would still be as much of a third world Country as Angola is.

And it's only the elites who are rich.

Quote

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Azincourt

[elaine567]

22 minutes ago, SolG said:

However, animal to human transmission, followed by human to human transmission is also the cause of EVERY pandemic, EVER.

Not sure if that is actually true. Over 60 per cent of infectious diseases that we get are zoonotic, and 75 per cent of new, "emerging" infectious diseases are zoonotic, not 100%.
Antibiotics have mostly quelled the non viral causes of pandemics. We in the "comfortable" West are rich enough for non viral infectious threats to be a non issue, though in the future antibiotic resistance may become a problem.
As for pandemics, yes for the more recent well known viral pandemics, like HIV, SARS, MERS, swine flu, bird flu... are all of animal origin, but pandemics are not common occurrences.  
For an animal virus to cause a pandemic there needs to be the perfect storm of an animal virus making the leap to human to human transmission, being contagious enough to infect many susceptible humans, and then being able to cause significant disease for it to be an issue.

We as humans like to be able to control the situation, we prefer to think there is a "reason", a human reason that this virus popped up.
A random event that we have no control of whatsoever is a lot scarier, hence the comfort to be found in conspiracy theories.

[Azincourt]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Not sure if that is actually true. Over 60 per cent of infectious diseases that we get are zoonotic, and 75 per cent of new, "emerging" infectious diseases are zoonotic, not 100%.
Antibiotics have mostly quelled the non viral causes of pandemics. We in the "comfortable" West are rich enough for non viral infectious threats to be a non issue, though in the future antibiotic resistance may become a problem.
As for pandemics, yes for the more recent well known viral pandemics, like HIV, SARS, MERS, swine flu, bird flu... are all of animal origin, but pandemics are not common occurrences.  
For an animal virus to cause a pandemic there needs to be the perfect storm of an animal virus making the leap to human to human transmission, being contagious enough to infect many susceptible humans, and then being able to cause significant disease for it to be an issue.

We as humans like to be able to control the situation, we prefer to think there is a "reason", a human reason that this virus popped up.
A random event that we have no control of whatsoever is a lot scarier, hence the comfort to be found in conspiracy theories.

For sure. And think about how most of the people living on planet earth don't have access to the doctors or to medication, or even to the water we have coming from pipes.

Every night I praise the Universe for having me be born in the richest nation on earrth.

[gaius]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:43 PM, gaius said:

I hope there's some sort of ulterior motive involved. That they really know the truth and are just lying to try and protect supplies for health care workers. But at this point I'm not so sure. The people formulating our response to this whole thing might just really be that stupid.

As far as facemasks go, I guess one of the main reasons public health officials have been discouraging their use is because this virus doesn't fit their traditional definition of "airborne". Even though it's clearly spreading through the air in many cases. Like the choir incident in Washington state.

So it's official. No ulterior motive. They really are just that stupid. 

I also wish people would stop holding up Anthony Fauci as some kind of role model. If he's part of the group advocating against travel restrictions and mass quarantines then he's part of the problem. Which it appears he is.

[justwhoiam]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:00 PM, serial muse said:

Does that matter at this point?

Yes, it does. They put the cart before the horse. No point in going on with this discussion though. Opinions diverge and I'm fine with it.

Quote

I really do wonder why people want so badly to cling to the idea that bad things must have been engineered by "those" people rather than naturally occurring

Although I don't belong to that group of people, I've been around long enough to have doubts. Only fools have no doubts.

[simpycurious]

I am with LittleBlack on taking a day or so off the news.  Now, if I can keep the calls and emails down as well then it is a really good plan. I just wonder if things are

significantly worse in China (to this day) than anyone truly knows?  If that is true, then it makes you really consider how bad things could possibly get in the US.  

Maybe, a few days on a boat might not be a bad idea about now. 

[NuevoYorko]

On 3/31/2020 at 10:42 AM, Ruby Slippers said:

I have a pet peeve about Coronavirus: people's judgment about how other people are handling it. 

All over the internet, including on this forum, I've seen people making caustic, judgy comments about people and how they're getting around, whether they're staying with their significant other or not, etc.

 

#STFH is a trending hashtag for reasons.

By mid March, the entire US  and much of the world has had access to solid information about how this virus has brilliantly succeeded to wreak the destruction that it has.  It hinges on 2 things :  travel and gathering.  Just because someone lives in a state where the government has not chosen to put restrictions in place, this has no bearing on the reality of how this is spread and what the outcomes of travel and gathering WILL be.

In places where restrictions on these behaviors were not put in place and enforced, the results have been predictably worse.  In places where they have been, the trajectory has been much less devastating.  

When people feel justified in traveling to "minimally affected areas," which are often rural, they are taking a big chance with OTHER PEOPLE's  lives.  They consciously choose to do it.

In Oregon, on a nice sunny weekend  recently, people flocked to the pristine coast.  Same thing happened in Florida, on the UK beaches and in the mountains of Wales.  The happy travelers didn't think they were doing anything wrong and probably moaned about "judgey" attitudes from others.  Meanwhile, some of those weekenders brought the virus to places that do not even have  a hospital, and also have a lot of retirees.  Town officials from these destinations literally took out ads in papers and on social media begging others to stay away,  especially if they lived in a populated area.  

Society at large has every right to judge others when their personal choices are inevitably going to have a negative impact on countless other people.   It reminds me of some of my gay acquaintances who refused to give up their "right" to have unprotected sex with various people.  They were plagued by "judgey" opinions as well.  And then some of them were literally plagued - as were their sex partners.

#STFH.

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, simpycurious said:

I am with LittleBlack on taking a day or so off the news.  Now, if I can keep the calls and emails down as well then it is a really good plan. I just wonder if things are

significantly worse in China (to this day) than anyone truly knows?  If that is true, then it makes you really consider how bad things could possibly get in the US.  

Maybe, a few days on a boat might not be a bad idea about now. 

Me too.  For the first time since it’s inception, I turned my Facebook off a week ago.   While I have missed bits of it, I haven’t missed a feed full of corona and idiotic comments.   

Perhaps if I turned it back on and blocked all my friends and news from my feed and just kept the feeds relating to my interests it could work for me.