Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Libby1]

3 hours ago, Ellener said:

I do think there's a comfort effect in feeling like 'we're doing something protective', but it's best to just stay home or six feet away from others when outside for now.

Stores here are now trying to facilitate that distance with signs everywhere and ground markers.

Agree that social distancing is best.  Unfortunately I've found in the supermarket there are people who refuse to adhere to that advice.  You can be picking up something from a shelf, and before you know it somebody else is right in your space.  That's who I'm trying to give myself some additional protection from, when I wear a mask.  The people who just don't give a **** (and who may well already have contracted the virus, albeit being in the non symptomatic stage, as a result of having that attitude).   Also, because wearing an N95 mask is still seen as strange behaviour here, it's likely to make people automatically back away from you.   

I realise masks aren't fail-proof, that I'm not wearing one custom made to fit etc...but I'm self conscious enough of it, while wearing it, to remember rigidly not to touch my face. For me, the expert advice that they don't work for the ordinary layperson (because of our ignorance, carelessness or whatever) is a bit like experts telling us that if we don't wash our hands in precise accordance with an extremely rigid formula then we might as well not bother at all.  I'll pay attention to advice about how to use a mask as effective as possible,  and I think that's the sort of advice you're giving - which is useful.  But there have been these arrogant experts featured in tabloid newspapers over here being really contemptuous about the notion that ordinary people should protect themselves with masks...and they can just GTF as far as I'm concerned.

[Azincourt]

19 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

Yes, when my girlfriend had to go into the pharmacy to pick up her prescriptions, I put a N95 mask on her.  She said she felt stupid as she was the only one with a mask on.  I told who cares what other people are doing, that we are taking extra precautions because of her underlying health issues.

Glad to know, I did the right thing by insisting she wear it in the pharmacy.

I've got three more N95 masks that only have some light wear from when I was polishing marble, does anyone know if I can re-use them??  Perhaps blow the marble dust out of them with my air compressor??

Please and thank you.

Of course facial masks are effective against the virus. Why do you think doctors, nurses, the staff in eldery homes, the people who work at the grocer's and at the supermarket and even the suppliers who come to drop their products, and even the cops who are doing duty-patrol all wear face masks?

The medical authorities say masks don't do much because they want to keep all of the masks to themselves, but smart people have always figured out that something like this would come out of either China or India, so over the years they stocked up N95 masks and other types of medical masks for such an occasion, and now those people have hundreds and hundreds of masks that will last them a very long time.

Very smart people, the best people. We should be proud of those people. Very good people.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Azincourt

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, Libby1 said:

I've found in the supermarket there are people who refuse to adhere to that advice

I haven't had any bad experiences here, Houston is already well-versed in disaster instructions/preparations, but I tend to go to the supermarket about an hour before it closes if I go now and just pick up a handful of fresh food things I can carry, in and out fast and touch as little as possible. I can make do anyway for a few weeks.

The pharmacies have drive-throughs here so do many restaurants.

As the test numbers start to peak I'm not going out hardly at all except to some secluded woodland and walking my own neighbourhood with the dog, where people keep their distance.

1 hour ago, Azincourt said:

The medical authorities say masks don't do much because they want to keep all of the masks to themselves

They are many more times at risk being in the front line of the work. They need protective equipment to do their jobs effectively.

I have nothing but praise and gratitude for them, they risk themselves just going in to work at times like this.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Ellener
spelling

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, Azincourt said:

Of course facial masks are effective against the virus. Why do you think doctors, nurses, the staff in eldery homes, the people who work at the grocer's and at the supermarket and even the suppliers who come to drop their products, and even the cops who are doing duty-patrol all wear face masks?

The medical authorities say masks don't do much because they want to keep all of the masks to themselves, but smart people have always figured out that something like this would come out of either China or India, so over the years they stocked up N95 masks and other types of medical masks for such an occasion, and now those people have hundreds and hundreds of masks that will last them a very long time.

Very smart people, the best people. We should be proud of those people. Very good people.

There are some very good reaosn why masks aren't all that effective when worn by the public. It's not always easy to get them on and off properly, and if you happen to do so incorrectly, you can transfer any bacteria/viruses onto your face

 

[pepperbird]

I was listening to a news story about how the cleaners at a hospital were taking great care, wiping down doorknobs, etc.

That's all well and good, but why wasn't that happening in the first place? Whether it's covid-19 , c.difficle or some other disease, they can spread so easily in a hospital setting.

[2BGoodAgain]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:05 AM, pepperbird said:

from what i understand, this is part of why it's so hard to eradicate some diseases-they have an alternative host to humans. Smallpox is an example of a disease that was wiped out because there's no viable alternative host in the wild.

If the information on this site is accurate (it's sourced from the WHO, CDC etc.) then the disease first showed up in North America back in mid to late January.  At that point , it had been found in at least 15 countries, including the USA, Australia, many Asian countries, Germany, Finland, Italy etc..
Why did it take so long for countries (beyond China) to react?

b/c china early January was still deny human to human transmission.

i'm not saying countries couldn't have done a better job preparing for this, but that's also one reason...

[2BGoodAgain]

38 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I was listening to a news story about how the cleaners at a hospital were taking great care, wiping down doorknobs, etc.

That's all well and good, but why wasn't that happening in the first place? Whether it's covid-19 , c.difficle or some other disease, they can spread so easily in a hospital setting.

b/c societies take a cost benefit analysis of such a process... how many could die vs the cost of doing something...

Edited March 30, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[amaysngrace]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

i sure hope this is a hoax but it doesn’t seem as though it is.

[Azincourt]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

There are some very good reaosn why masks aren't all that effective when worn by the public. It's not always easy to get them on and off properly, and if you happen to do so incorrectly, you can transfer any bacteria/viruses onto your face

 

It's not that complicated to correctly adjust a mask, and the govt. can teach people how to do it via the TV, like I've seen European channels teach people how to proper wash their hands in these trying times.

[elaine567]

11 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

b/c china early January was still deny human to human transmission.

And why wouldn't they think that?
Animal viruses tend not to make the leap to human to human transmission. I guess plenty people in Wuhan had links to the market whether they were eating wild life or not.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I blame the US/UK Govts far more for the mess we are now in. 
They protected the economy, were slow off the mark to act and have put us all in great danger.


 

[amaysngrace]

I blame China too.  I didn’t want to but more and more it seems they’ve withheld vital information from the rest of the world.

They pitched a hospital as we all watched, got impressed by them as experts, and they’ve been misleading us ever since.

[Azincourt]

Oh, I blame China aswell. They simply do not care about the lives that were lost in the western nation, the only reason they're sending medical equipament our way is because they're trying to sweeten us up, they don't want to lose the western markets.

China kills their own people for criticizing The Communist Party of China, they have concentration camps where they kill thousands of innocent people on the daily,   and the ditactor of China has as much compassion in me as a 3000 year old Egyptian mummy has teeth in her.

[serial muse]

17 hours ago, justwhoiam said:

And I'm suspicious - like many others - about quick (faster than light) statements on how the virus is undoubtedly not man-made. Those statements were out right away, without any direct verification and based on Chinese sources. We have people manipulating DNA and RNA, I wouldn't be surprised about people manipulating sources/documents. I'm wondering how any serious scientist/biologist/virologist can vouch anything done by someone else in a foreign country (thousands of miles away) where political censorship is the norm. I'm not into any conspiracy theory or anything, I simply think that shouldn't be dismissed. I know a team of scientists tried to prove the virus certainly came from nature, but we also have other scientists claiming otherwise. I'm not a scientist and I think both sides need to be equally considered for now.

 

What's frustrating about this statement is that people are not making "faster than light" statements debunking the conspiracy theory that China created the virus in a lab. How dismissive of the important work so many people do. This is not a "both sides" situation. There are no credible scientists claiming it was manmade. None. NONE.

So, in the interest of trying to get the word out and spread some actual science around, I'll try again. Here we go. PLEASE READ THIS I AM LOOKING AT YOU FOR REAL READ THIS.

This has nothing to do with the word of scientists in China. It is based on scientific examination of the virus' genetic material, by INTERNATIONAL RESEARCHERS and one such examination is already published in a peer-reviewed journal (Nature Medicine). Here it is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9.

Quote

"Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus."

they write.

Here's a great summary of those findings in a general science magazine: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature.

And now, here is the gist of those analyses, taken from the study itself, the first link in this post.

There are two really distinct features of this particular coronavirus that distinguish it from other coronaviruses (like SARS the first).

One, it's especially good at binding to a receptor on humans known as ACE2.

And two, it has a particular protein on its spikes that helps the virus particles get into a host cell. I'm simplifying a lot here but the point is that the configuration of this protein is unique to this virus.

So. In this study, the researchers report that although the virus happens to be really good at binding to human ACE2 receptors, it clearly wasn't designed that way. In fact, the researchers say, if someone were to design the thing specifically to be good at infecting humans, the setup would have been quite different. A statistical analysis of mutations of this feature of the virus (called the receptor-binding domain, or RBD, if you open the paper) show that it's just as good (if not better) at binding to ferrets, cats, pangolins, and a few other species. (The first cat case of COVID-19 has now been documented, btw, and yes, the cat actually got sick.)

In other words, humans weren't even its primary target.

So that's strike one. They write:

Quote

"Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation."

Next up, the unique configuration of that spike protein, which has a spot where a particular enzyme called furin can cut into the protein, making it more easily transmissible. This is not something found in other SARS viruses.

Turns out, though, that both pangolins and bats have a similar configuration in their own versions of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Nobody put those things in the pangolin virus, presumably, in order to do away with the scourge of pangolins. They just occurred in nature. Also, the configuration of the spike protein allows for some spots for sugars to bind and form a sort of shield that protect the virus from immune systems attacking it. But that's something that occurs in nature, not in the lab. If you created the thing in a lab, it simply wouldn't have such an adaptation.

And finally. Have people done any genetic tinkering with coronaviruses in the past? Yes, of course. Scientists use a method called "reverse genetics", which can involve genetically engineering specific nucleic acid sequences, to try to understand how certain genes function and what they do to an organism. We want to know how these deadly diseases do their thing. Researchers have done this for some coronaviruses (long before this one emerged) in order to understand how they work. But, there's a very useful feature here, which is that the reverse-genetic systems have telltale sequences. And it has been repeatedly shown that there's exactly zero evidence of any of those reverse-genetic systems in the genes of this virus. That's a pretty hard no.

I hope at the very least that this convinces you that the pooh-poohing of this conspiracy theory is based not on knee-jerk "nah dawg" but actually on sound science, thoughtfully and diligently applied to the question.

I don't know what it will take in this day and age for people to actually give some weight to sound science over soundbites, but if a global pandemic doesn't do it, I guess nothing will. Doing what I can here.

Edited March 30, 2020 by serial muse

[pepperbird]

5 hours ago, Azincourt said:

It's not that complicated to correctly adjust a mask, and the govt. can teach people how to do it via the TV, like I've seen European channels teach people how to proper wash their hands in these trying times.

you'd be surprised. I have to wear one almost every time I go out. My immunologist and rhumatologist both spent a lot of time teaching how to use it properly and also how to put it on, take it off and care for it properly. Mine is custom made, so it works well for me.

[Interstellar]

Man, I could really use a puppy or a dog  right now. Ugh. I’m jealous of people who have them.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Interstellar

[elaine567]

Stanley Perlman University of Iowa who has studied Respiratory Coronaviruses for the past 38 years, said that if anyone was to "manufacture" a "bad" virus the last virus they would  choose would be a  Coronavirus - much too difficult...  

Edited March 30, 2020 by elaine567

[Azincourt]

43 minutes ago, Interstellar said:

Man, I could really use a puppy or a dog  right now. Ugh. I’m jealous of people who have them.

They were showing a TV report in Italy, people who've been cooped up in their tiny homes for months. Those who have small kids are getting some quality time with their kids, but those who don't have family are probably crawling all over the walls.

Quote

Stanley Perlman University of Iowa who has studied Respiratory Coronaviruses for the past 38 years, said that if anyone was to "manufacture" a "bad" virus the last virus they would  choose would be a  Coronavirus - much too difficult...  

Just like black ops projects don't exist.

Until they do

Edited March 30, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed formatting

[simpycurious]

4 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

They were showing a TV report in Italy, people who've been cooped up in their tiny homes for months. Those who have small kids are getting some quality time with their kids, but those who don't have family are probably crawling all over the walls.

 

Just like black ops projects don't exist.

Until they do

Azin, I gotta hand it to you.  I don't always agree with what  you are saying but you have a great sense humor and you seem pretty convicted in what you believe. This is the first day that I have not gone anywhere, besides a run, and I have gotten BORED. 

[Gaeta]

30 minutes ago, Interstellar said:

Man, I could really use a puppy or a dog  right now. Ugh. 

In my city the SPCA says adoptions of dogs and cats are going up. 

I understand people are feeling lonely and a pet sounds appealing. The thing is I am afraid after the pandemic we will see many of those dogs and cats being abandonned again. A dog or cat is a 14 year + commitment. It requires time, love, patience and lots of money when they get older.

[Azincourt]

4 minutes ago, simpycurious said:

Azin, I gotta hand it to you.  I don't always agree with what  you are saying but you have a great sense humor and you seem pretty convicted in what you believe. This is the first day that I have not gone anywhere, besides a run, and I have gotten BORED. 

you know what they say, when you are not rich, you better be funny!

I try.

Yeah, at least the people with dogs can still get out of the house for a few minutes to walk the dogs.

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I understand people are feeling lonely and a pet sounds appealing. The thing is I am afraid after the pandemic we will see many of those dogs and cats being abandonned again. A dog or cat is a 14 year + commitment. It requires time, love, patience and lots of money when they get older.

 

You know, I told my parents this yesterday. I told them that I bet people are going to adopt/buy dogs just to have an excuse to get out of the house. But what will happen to the dogs after this virus is defeated.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Azincourt

[preraph]

Yes.  But they need places for them right now.  Hopefully most of them will work out.  I'm wondering if dog food is also a shortage.  Mine will last a while now I only have one dog, though. 

[Azincourt]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

Yes.  But they need places for them right now.  Hopefully most of them will work out.  I'm wondering if dog food is also a shortage.  Mine will last a while now I only have one dog, though. 

I dunno. Dogs are a lot of responsability. I take care of a friend's dog from time to time, when something urgent happens and they can't take the dog with them,  or when they go on holidays and need a place for the dog to stay.  When that happens, I gotta wake up at 7 am to walk the dog, then I gotta walk the dog again at 11AM, then I walk the dog again at 4PM, then I walk the dog at 8PM and then I walk the dog at midnight because that's usually when I go to bed, and I always walk the dog like 15-30 minutes minimum, especially because the dog is overweight and he needs the physical exercise.

It's a lot of free cardio, that's for sure and that's good, but I'm afraid many of these people adopting dogs are just doing it because they want an excuse to get out of the house, or because they are lonely.

[preraph]

1 minute ago, Azincourt said:

you know what they say, when you are not rich, you better be funny!

I try.

Yeah, at least the people with dogs can still get out of the house for a few minutes to walk the dogs.

My remaining dog is mortified of wet weather.  She won't set foot in damp grass.  Little wuss.  It's been such a wet season this year and she's been going right out the back door on the pavestones.  Ugh.  But we had a few sunny drier days lately and yesterday she went out and hid behind the pampas grass while I was out there doing something, and I realized she wanted someone to herd her.  Because that's where she'd go hide and wait when Myra was still spry (Myra was a herding dog).  Chickapea would go out there and just let Myra corner her back there (Chickapea was always faster, so you knew it was a game).  So I went out there and flushed her out and let her run loop-d-loops.  Really the only exercise she's been getting because of the weather.  I can't walk more than about a block, if that, and I walk too slow for a dog to get exercise from it, too.  But I've got a big backyard so she will chase squirrels once the weather is sunny and I'll go give her a goose and get her moving.  She won't fetch anything....

[preraph]

1 minute ago, Azincourt said:

I dunno. Dogs are a lot of responsability. I take care of a friend's dog from time to time, when something urgent happens and they can't take the dog with them,  or when they go on holidays and need a place for the dog to stay.  When that happens, I gotta wake up at 7 am to walk the dog, then I gotta walk the dog again at 11AM, then I walk the dog again at 4PM, then I walk the dog at 8PM and then I walk the dog at midnight because that's usually when I go to bed, and I always walk the dog like 15-30 minutes minimum, especially because the dog is overweight and he needs the physical exercise.

It's a lot of free cardio, that's for sure and that's good, but I'm afraid many of these people adopting dogs are just doing it because they want an excuse to get out of the house, or because they are lonely.

If you own a house with a dog door and backyard, they are not very much trouble at all unless they get in poor health.  I grew up on an acreage with all kinds of animals, and I knew enough not to get one while I lived in an apartment because it's really not fair to most of them and unless it's a very athletic person, they won't get enough exercise.  Also, they shouldn't be alone all the hours people are at work if they can't go outside.  So yeah, it's not the best for anyone.  You need a home with a yard and a dog door so they can come and go and entertain themselves.  Keep the squirrels in line.  

[Azincourt]

12 minutes ago, preraph said:

If you own a house with a dog door and backyard,

True, but there aren't any houses here like there are in America.

It's all residential buildings. 4- rooms houses that weren't made for big dogs.  German shepards weren't made to stay home all day,  and my friend doesn't like walking all that much. Makes me wonder why someone like that would get a dog, and a dog that big.

 

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they are not very much trouble at all unless they get in poor health. 

They kinda are, tho.  It's not just the walking the dog when the sky is falling down with rain or when it's so freezing cold all you wanna do is stay in your bed all day long, but hey the dog gotta do what the dog gotta do, so you get out of the house and slowly, slowly, you freeze to death lol.

It's the vet-bills.  Vaccines, the eletronic chip dogs now all must have,  it's the specially made dog-food, and there's low level dog food and high level quality food. It's worrying that the dog might get sick.  It's the price of the surgery if the dog gets attacked by another dog, or  escapes from your leash and ends up run over by a car. It's the emotional stress and worry that you can't shake off when the dog's missing, like I see these dog posters looking for missing dogs.

It's the emotional attachement people have for their dogs. Dogs have a very short life. 10-15 years life expectancy. People think taking care of a dog for 10-15 years is a long-term commitment, but ten, twenty, thirty years go by so fast when you're enjoying a happy life with your dog.

I also don't like how dependent dogs. They need their owners for everything and they can't survive without us. What happens if I have a dog and I die and no one knows about the existence of my dog, and it takes days and days for my body to be found? The poor dog would suffer and suffer until someone found him. If he was found in time.

Nah,  I'd rather have a borrowed dog for a weekend, or for a couple of months at most, and then it's back to being dogless.

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I grew up on an acreage with all kinds of animals, and I knew enough not to get one while I lived in an apartment because it's really not fair to most of them and unless it's a very athletic person, they won't get enough exercise.  Also, they shouldn't be alone all the hours people are at work if they can't go outside.  So yeah, it's not the best for anyone.  You need a home with a yard and a dog door so they can come and go and entertain themselves.  Keep the squirrels in line.  

Yeah, a farm is a great place for a dog to live in. City apartments not really, even more so for large breeds of dogs. Maybe if I ever win the euromillions I'll buy a farm and a  German shepard of my own, but for the time being, I'll just keep being a  temporary dog-babysitter for my friend.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Azincourt