Why does it seem like guys have to be perfect to date successfully while women just need to be average?

[alone_123]

It seems like there is an expectation among women (especially women in their 20s) that guys must be perfect in order to be datable but its okay for women to be just average. For example, every guy I know is super fit (think pro athlete or male model), good social skills and and makes lots of money (like mid 20s and making $150K+). However, lots of them have average looking girlfriends (e.g., overweight, barely working, not particularly nice, etc.). I also feel very self conscientious about myself as I don't even make $100K and when I look in the mirror, all i see is someone fat despite the fact that I eat well and work out every day (body fat is ~13%). 

 

Any advice on how to feel better about myself? Can anyone give examples of guys aged 20-40 dating successfully that don't look like they just got off the cover of Men Health magazine and drive a Ferrari?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Yeah, it sure would suck if society, through various mediums, made women feel like they had to be perfect (beautiful, thin, ageless) in order to be worthy.  I wonder what that would feel like!  

Edited January 18, 2020 by CautiouslyOptimistic

[chillii]

l'm not in the US so probably not much help, sounds like a whole nother silly ball game there , or maybe it's just the struggling people that pop up in forums putting out that vibe. Sounds like your too worried about all that bullshyt , just find someone you like and see how it goes. lf you genuinely like each other and get along , especially at what are you 20s or something , nothing else much really matters at that age anyway for now.

And by the way , anywhere you see unbalanced couples around in all th superficial stuff like looks or whatever , she's better looking , he's better looking , she's fat he's in shape she's in shape his fat and on and on it goes.

But l was divorced late 40s and didn't even look at women again until well into 50s but never come across any of the bs you all talk about . And as far as whatever l earn , that was no ones damn business and didn't matter anyway .

But l'll say one thing , there were still plenty of women around even at this age l could 've remarried 3 or 4 times so far. The really tricky part was finding one where you both have all the right feelings but that she wasn't a mental mess or bogged down with too much crap , and still looked after herself.

Edited January 18, 2020 by chillii

[smackie9]

It's not about the wallet, but about personality and the ability to be charming. I know not so good looking guys that are not in shape that have the ability to attract all women. They have this essence that stimulates the emotions. Zowie. I believe it's something you are born with. They just make you feel comfortable, they're fun, funny, they have such charisma.

Work on your personality, social skills, get a feel on how to touch a women emotionally.

[alphamale]

it's because men will put their dick inside almost anything and women are much more choosy

[mortensorchid]

Really?  I must be in a crazy place because most of the guys I have seen are losers who hitch their wagons to women who will support them.  Or they end up with users / gold diggers who aren't with them unless there's something in it for them.  Or they go for someone who is lesser than they are (physically, personally, career success,  etc.).  Never have I met or seen a man who would complain about this.

[fromheart]

16 hours ago, alone_123 said:

Any advice on how to feel better about myself? Can anyone give examples of guys aged 20-40 dating successfully that don't look like they just got off the cover of Men Health magazine and drive a Ferrari?

Yeah, me.

Though I am physically fit and good looking, I don't have a super high income.  And I've had some beautiful women in my time. 

Sounds like you've been going for gold diggers and average women.  If you give them power, they'll have power.  So stop giving them power.

[d0nnivain]

I don't know any 20 somethings making $100k.  You have some strange idea or you travel in a very exclusive circle.   

While discretionary income helps, it's not the only thing.  Personality counts.  Self confidence is key but it must be tempered with compassion.  If you see yourself as less then, that colors how other people see you.  

Try focusing more on the good things about yourself.  

[thefooloftheyear]

There certainly is a certain amount of truth to the theory that women only need to "show up" to get in this game, while guys need to bring something to the party to get in...

That being said, that's more likely early in life(hence why the OP is noticing so much at his age), while later in life the tables do seem to turn...So its not all one sided for life..

But women still will be in a position to always seem to find interested parties....Here is the catch with that though...Of those interested men, they then have to weed out the guys who are only after them because they may have nice breasts or whatever....

The point then is what seems like a lot of attention is many times just guys chasing body parts…  Ask some of these women and they;; gladly tell you that no attention is better than that type of attention...

There is more to these stories than what it appears, OP....

TFY

[Malin889]

When I was in my 20s, I never knew any guy who made $100K. Maybe these woman that your friends are dating have good personalities? 
 

When you’re single, its inevitable, you’ll always see couples and will wonder, how’d THEY get together?

In order to be in a happy relationship, you need to like and feel good about yourself first. If working out and eating well doesn’t help your self esteem, maybe something else will. Get more involved with hobbies, do things you love, be interesting, be happy, and you’ll draw happiness to you, and hopefully from then you’ll draw a relationship to you. 

[preraph]

On the contrary to the OP's first post, in my lifetime, I have mostly seen very good women settle for very mediocre men.  

Edited January 19, 2020 by preraph

[Tamfana]

Go to a mall or airport and you'll see many regular couples with imperfect looking men.    

That said, my daughter dated a gorgeous guy but he wasn't smart or curious, he resented her talking about her work and school, he left his phone recording under her bed because he was sure she was cheating, and he picked a fight with her on the day of one of her final exams in college.  He may have looked perfect but he wasn't.  Physical appearance and expensive cars only give you the first page of the story.   

Edited January 19, 2020 by Tamfana

[carhill]

An average woman is a clearly superior being, everyone knows this.

[Malin889]

25 minutes ago, preraph said:

On the contrary to the OP's first post, in my lifetime, I have mostly seen very good women settle for very mediocre men.  

Very true! 

[snowboy91]

Sure there is the perception that guys need to be "perfect" to be successful in dating. They need the six figure salary, have a nice house/car, be super fit/strong, good social skills, etc.

There is also the perception that girls need to be "perfect" too - they need to have the perfect body (not overweight, nice breasts/butt, long head hair and hairless everywhere else, perfect skin, etc), and be good in bed but also have had as few previous partners as possible.

The reality, for both guys and girls, is very different, and is highly individual. I've got a lot of female friends, and hardly any of them see a six figure salary as a necessity (or even as a consideration) - they want someone they are attracted to and can feel comfortable in a relationship with. What that means is different for each of them, because they are different people. As for the guys I hang out with, while there is some overlap with their preferences, there are also differences (hair colour, figure, etc). And none of them see the number of previous partners a girl has had as an issue.

My main point is the reality of dating can be a bit different from our perception of what society seems to say it's like. I think it's also different across regions - there are certainly minor differences I've notices between (and within!) English speaking countries. So your "reality" may be different to mine - but it may still be different to your "perception".

Edited January 20, 2020 by snowboy91

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

On 1/18/2020 at 3:19 PM, alphamale said:

it's because men will put their dick inside almost anything and women are much more choosy

 

[hotpotato]

Well, that's different from what I see everyday. I mostly see good looking women with neutral or ugly guys. Most couples I see looksmatch or the women look better. I cant comment on their personalities.

 

Where do you live? NYC? Orange county, California? Where I live is more regular, and I dont see what you see. 

[jeff0011]

Come on. Less than 3 % of all Americans make over 150k.  And I doubt many go them are 25. 

[SumGuy]

On 1/18/2020 at 3:34 PM, alone_123 said:

...

Any advice on how to feel better about myself? Can anyone give examples of guys aged 20-40 dating successfully that don't look like they just got off the cover of Men Health magazine and drive a Ferrari?

As pointed out above the same pressure and expectations are put on women.

How to feel better?  Don't buy into this view of people and relationship which has been largely manufactured to increase your insecurity, play upon desires for security, status and connection all in the service of making you consume and locking you into a cycle of seeking contentment but through a life style that will never provide it.

Forget about social media, seek out those groups and people who find Mens Health to be unhealthy and borderline narcissistic and a Ferrari to be conspicuous consumption.  All this "perfect" you refer to is just materialism.

I'm a living example.  in very good shape and have a look that I guess enough women find handsome or cute (not all by far and certainly not the tall executive look), but not a model or athlete and do more than fine dating.  No Ferrari, I dress pretty blue collar in my life and OLD profile.  And this isn't new, even when 20 completely eschewed looking like men in magazines or TV commercials, and did fine, very fine, with hot, amazing women who were not crazy.  Granted when 20 something a good percentage of my peers were still questioning the materialistic and commercial nature of society and our music and sub--culture had yet to be co-opted and commercialized.

[SumGuy]

On 1/20/2020 at 10:39 AM, jeff0011 said:

Come on. Less than 3 % of all Americans make over 150k.  And I doubt many go them are 25. 

They are likely in big finance or big law, in a big city where starting salaries are near $200K (assuming you went to a great school and top 20% of your class, that or your parents are connected).  Now that they have any time to date or even keep in shape is questionable.

[preraph]

Yes, all this about have to make six figures is utter nonsense.  Only one woman I have ever known personally in 67 years was married to a man who might have been making six figures, or he might now have been.  Working for Microsoft.  But she was making pretty good money too when they met, and they'd known each other from their hometown.  It wasn't a question of her looking for a rich guy.  She made her own money and they just ended up getting together and from then it got serious fast.  They adopted two babies and before that, she was rescuing dogs right and left, just a good person.  

 

That said and harkening back to who was better looking, she was by a yard.  He is a huge guy with a heart of gold and she is a loving person who was all about that.

Edited January 24, 2020 by preraph

[LuckyM]

You are thinking of college educated SF? Forum members, it seems, assume that others have professional decent jobs

and do not consider working class SF and guys ----who date and marry with different criteria, different lifestyle.

Often money is not as important, at first, as much as the same national origin, religion, roots.  You could try meeting

a SF who is really into her ethnicity and religion.

[preraph]

Where I am in Texas, most working class is college educated and still just working their tails off not able to use their actual degree.

[ZA Dater]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 10:34 PM, alone_123 said:

It seems like there is an expectation among women (especially women in their 20s) that guys must be perfect in order to be datable but its okay for women to be just average. For example, every guy I know is super fit (think pro athlete or male model), good social skills and and makes lots of money (like mid 20s and making $150K+). However, lots of them have average looking girlfriends (e.g., overweight, barely working, not particularly nice, etc.). I also feel very self conscientious about myself as I don't even make $100K and when I look in the mirror, all i see is someone fat despite the fact that I eat well and work out every day (body fat is ~13%). 

 

Any advice on how to feel better about myself? Can anyone give examples of guys aged 20-40 dating successfully that don't look like they just got off the cover of Men Health magazine and drive a Ferrari?

Women for the most part put ZERO effort into dating, that point one.

How the feel better, well find something you are passionate about and pursue that, feeling good is about being happy with yourself and being kind to yourself too. What I typically do is find the positive in each day, congratulate myself for something small, try and accomplish things.

[Lotsgoingon]

OMG, the idea that guys have to be perfect to date--are you kidding me?

I love my guy friends to death ... one look at them, one piece of knowledge about them, and it's clear that they have obvious flaws ... in looks (like almost all of us) and in personality quirks.

You are likely showing interest in the wrong women ... and not reading social cues that a person is interested in you. One of the most beautiful looking women I know just got engaged to a mediocre looking guy ... 

Most of us are mediocre looking ... and we pair up with other mediocre looking people.