Second date out of town

[alphamale]

18 hours ago, some_username1 said:

Jeez OP, I can’t keep up with all the people you are dating. How do you keep track? Do you use a spreadsheet or something?

she implants each of them with a chip in the neck

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Probably a wise decision, but c'mon, Cookies. We all know you're not done with dating.

[5x5]

Although it's now a moot point, if you liked your first date with him and all the rest. I don't see why it would have beeen a bad thing for you to go. I also asked my wife what she would do, and she said she would've  gone since it would probably have been lots of fun.

As to the possibility of sex, if you don't want to it's okay to say no and okay to say it's not likely to happen. That said you might want to have sex with him and that could be lots of fun as well.

My wife also agrees with me that she wouldn't rule out sex, since sex is fun to share and could be great to do on such a trip.

At the end of the day if you're dating a guy, hopefully he wants to get into your pants and you want to do the same with him.

[Ruby Slippers]

Hey, @Cookiesandough. I'm glad you didn't go.

As you may recall from my recent thread, I just broke up with someone that I had dived right into a relationship with. (He's back now, truly humbled himself and apologized, so there may be a second chance, but I told him if so, things are going to be very different and we'll have to start from the beginning.)

Let me tell you what I learned in the first go-round - and this, I believe, is a universal dating truth:

Don't give anybody anything they haven't earned. Don't give a man your attention, time, body, or a position of priority in your life before he's truly earned it. You barely knew this guy, so no way had he earned the pleasure of your company for an overnight trip - where you have to think about your safety, sexual boundaries, and all these other things way way way earlier than you should.

I made this mistake. My guy invited me on a weekend trip just a few weeks after he first spent the night. We went and had a great time. But what happened over time...?

Because I, due to my teenager-y idealism, made the short-sighted decision over and over again to give him more than he had EARNED... this gave him the impression that I don't value myself and my time as much as I should. 

Maintaining a high standard brings out the best in men. I think a big reason why men are so aimless and lost these days is that women have such low standards. Men barely have to lift a finger to get everything a woman's got these days, and that brings out their worst. So make him earn every little gem that you have to give - your time, a touch, a kiss, and every other step along the way. A good man will respond very well to this.

[Gr8fuln2020]

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

Although it's now a moot point, if you liked your first date with him and all the rest. I don't see why it would have beeen a bad thing for you to go. I also asked my wife what she would do, and she said she would've  gone since it would probably have been lots of fun.

As to the possibility of sex, if you don't want to it's okay to say no and okay to say it's not likely to happen. That said you might want to have sex with him and that could be lots of fun as well.

My wife also agrees with me that she wouldn't rule out sex, since sex is fun to share and could be great to do on such a trip.

At the end of the day if you're dating a guy, hopefully he wants to get into your pants and you want to do the same with him.

No offense 5x5, but did you tell your wife all of the details? That this was only a SECOND date?

[5x5]

@Gr8fuln2020 She has read these posts and after I posted what I wrote, she told me she thinks it's a shame @Cookiesandough decided not to go.

[Gr8fuln2020]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

@Gr8fuln2020 She has read these posts and after I posted what I wrote, she told me she thinks it's a shame @Cookiesandough decided not to go.

The not going part is a little shame...the having sex on a second date is a lot more to consider. I feel that this guy is/was expecting as much. It would have been uncomfortable/disappointing whether the guy would have admitted it or not, if she decided to find her own room without sex. Eh, who knows.

[5x5]

@Gr8fuln2020 my wife and I shared sex together on our third date. While our first and second date occurred on the same day, culminating in me staying at her place overnight at the end of the second date. That was over 23 years ago, of which in May we will be celebrating our 21st wedding anniversary.

[5x5]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Let me tell you what I learned in the first go-round - and this, I believe, is a universal dating truth:

Don't give anybody anything they haven't earned. Don't give a man your attention, time, body, or a position of priority in your life before he's truly earned it. You barely knew this guy, so no way had he earned the pleasure of your company for an overnight trip - where you have to think about your safety, sexual boundaries, and all these other things way way way earlier than you should.

I made this mistake. My guy invited me on a weekend trip just a few weeks after he first spent the night. We went and had a great time. But what happened over time...?

Because I, due to my teenager-y idealism, made the short-sighted decision over and over again to give him more than he had EARNED... this gave him the impression that I don't value myself and my time as much as I should. 

Maintaining a high standard brings out the best in men. I think a big reason why men are so aimless and lost these days is that women have such low standards. Men barely have to lift a finger to get everything a woman's got these days, and that brings out their worst. So make him earn every little gem that you have to give - your time, a touch, a kiss, and every other step along the way. A good man will respond very well to this.

There is no universal prescription for dating or any other sexual relationships.

Sure I can appreciate the appeal of that idea, and the safe harbour that one may believe they have when holding such thoughts. Yet that panacea is divorced from reality and offers no safe harbour, since for it to be true it all men would need to uniformly think alike and share the same perspectives when they actually don't.

If your universal truth we're actually true, you would not be where you are right now.

A woman can do all the things you recommend they do, yet still find themselves used, dumped, cheated on and or divorced.

Likewise a woman can do the opposite of what you prescribe and end up with a splendid sexual relationship with a wonderful partner that can last a lifetime.

You can protect yourself and encounter significant failure, just as you can also take risks and enjoy considerable success. The same applies the opposite way and in a myriad of variations in between.

That said there is nothing wrong with some caution and taking measures to mitigate risk, yet make no mistake with the exception of death life offers no guarantees.

As to the idea that good men will respond well to sexual manipulation, through the transactional rationing of affection and sexual favour. It is an error to believe that many men won't play along with such nonsense to get the service they are after. Just as many good men will not humour such manipulation, for long before finding healthier relationship partners. Nor will many respect the commodification of sex, from women who are potential marital partners either.

 

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

As to the idea that good men will respond well to sexual manipulation, through the transactional rationing of affection and sexual favour. It is an error to believe that many men won't play along with such nonsense to get the service they are after. 

It's not manipulative to respect yourself, protect yourself, and be true to yourself. Quite the contrary.

[Gr8fuln2020]

At the end of the day, there is only one thing that should override all possible scenarios, outcomes, etc... your own comfort and peace of mind. 5x5, your wife got lucky. Quickly becoming intimate with you paid off for her.  I wonder if other ladies who have become intimate so early now regret. I suspect the majority of relationships that begin with such intimacy so early do not result in a marriage of 20+ years.

The OP was not comfortable with the arrangement and she made the decision that made her most at ease. That's what matters most.

[5x5]

22 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

At the end of the day, there is only one thing that should override all possible scenarios, outcomes, etc... your own comfort and peace of mind. 5x5, your wife got lucky. Quickly becoming intimate with you paid off for her.  I wonder if other ladies who have become intimate so early now regret. I suspect the majority of relationships that begin with such intimacy so early do not result in a marriage of 20+ years.

The OP was not comfortable with the arrangement and she made the decision that made her most at ease. That's what matters most.

I agree doing what you want to do, and what you are comfortable with and liking yourself regardless of the outcome of such choices are a good thing.

As to my wife getting lucky, she wasn't looking for a marital partner at the time and nor was I. She was just out for some sexual fun through winter as was I. It simply turned out we both enjoyed ourselves, and have enjoyed continuing to be together ever since.

As to that being the case of longevity I'm sure that is true, yet it equally applies to people who wait as it does to those who don't. Anecdotally in my experience, most of my friends who have been together through decades, had sex early including the night they met.

Plus here on Loveshack there are a number of members here, who are happy have longevity and had sex on the night they met or first date as well.

Likewise having been married twice, I can also relate that my ex-wife and I shared sex together circa 2 and a bit hours after we met. That said that marriage certainly didn't last as long as my current one.

A person can rub their tummy 17x clockwise, whistle once, click their heels, do two handstands and wear blue on their first date and wait for sex till September 7. Yet they will have no better or worse chances at a great future than someone who doesn't do any of those things.

Edited January 19, 2020 by 5x5

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, or a woman can hook up with some guy she doesn't know very well and get an STD or two. With today's hookup culture, STDs are rampant and rates of infection are higher than they've ever been and rising. STDs usually aren't a big deal for men, who are just carriers. The consequences for women, however, can be dire - sterility, cancer, and worse. It's a FAR greater risk for women to hook up than men. 

STDs Continue to Rise in the U.S.:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/2019/2018-STD-surveillance-report-press-release.html

[LivingWaterPlease]

5X5, I haven't checked lately but I'd believe statistics would show relationships last longer when sexual intimacy doesn't happen earlier in a relationship. I have read that the longer a couple waits to have sexual intimacy the more fully emotional intimacy can develop for the longterm. I'm glad your marriage has lasted! That's great! I have a friend who was dating someone and met a guy who was engaged to another at a wedding reception. They hit it off, went straight to bed together that night before having even the first date, broke up with their SOs and have been married for over thirty years now. Just because they're still married doesn't make that plan a good one. Also, they could easily cite their story as a reason that what they did is a paradigm that works just fine, but there are a few of us who know how troubled their relationship is, always on the brink of divorce, yet most people don't know that. So, they could claim to be happily married and most wouldn't know the difference. Not that your marriage is troubled. One point I'm making is that just because a person has stayed married for the long term isn't an indication they're happily married or even fulfilled in the relationship.

I say Cookies did the smart thing in not going. If he's still interested in dating, she can do so at home. If he's not, she didn't miss out on anything.  

 

[5x5]

Just as anyone can hook up with a person they know very well and get an STI/STD or two.

Some people ration the truth and lie. Just as there is nothing stopping a person from getting a test and hooking up with someone else, before they hook up with a generic you.

Practicing "safe sex" early on will afford one no better or worse protection, than practicing "safe sex" late or withholding till marriage. If no-one lied, that wouldn't be the case, the trouble is plenty of people do. So being cognisant of such human failings, is a far better approach than thinking that knowing someone better affords someone an ironclad guarantee.

I'm not urging anyone to throw all caution to the wind. I am just encouraging you and the OP to be cognisant of the fact that absent not playing the mating game at all. Knowing someone for longer before having sex, comes with the similar coincident risks, as not knowing someone  for longer. So practice "safe sex", have fun and know that sex like like life, comes at a considerable risk.

[Miss Spider]

If someone loses interested after  sex, you’re not doing it right. Nah just kidding(kind of).I personally don’t think it matters much when it happens but I can understand your points. 

Thank you all for the insights. I thought it could be fun and I like spontaneity. But ultimately, I chose not to go because I didn’t want to lead anyone on sexually or in any way. I am sure everything would have been ok, but I am not sure what I want and I am not sure I am interested in this person. I also didn’t want to talk 6 hours in the car 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[LivingWaterPlease]

19 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

If someone loses interested after  sex, you’re not doing it right. Nah just kidding(kind of).I personally don’t think it matters much when it happens but I can understand your points. 

Thank you all for the insights. I thought it could be fun and I like spontaneity. But ultimately, I chose not to go because I didn’t want to lead anyone on sexually or in any way. I am sure everything would have been ok, but I am not sure what I want and I am not sure I am interested in this person. I also didn’t want to talk 6 hours in the car 

Cookies, this is such a great post from you! In that you didn't want to lead someone on. It is always wonderful to read a post where a person is concerned about treating another person well! And also that you showed great self awareness in realizing you didn't want to talk 6 hours in the car and that just because you were initially attracted to him you aren't sure you're truly interested in him. 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease
didn't edit after all!

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

I wonder if other ladies who have become intimate so early now regret. I suspect the majority of relationships that begin with such intimacy so early do not result in a marriage of 20+ years.

Had sex on the night of the day we met in 1992.  Still together.  

I would argue that sex or no sex, a majority of early dating connections don't make it through to a marriage of 20+ years.  

[Miss Spider]

The subject of this thread is also the subject of “second date out of town”(if need be, please reopen and merge with that, I’m so sorry) 

 

Basically, I had gone on one date with this guy and for the second date he asked me to go out of town to Chicago with him. I never went. 

 

I ended it with this chef/bartender I was seeing, so I  texted this guy for the first time in a week. 

 

I said “wyd” He said he’s in Chicago (again). He called me twice and I didn’t pick up. I said sorry and we started texting. After a few back and forths he said: . 

 

 

“Can I tell you something?So I rarely get these feelings about people. It’s only happened three times in my life. When I met you for breakfast was the 4th. I get these intuitions. Like I meet someone and know they’re going to be important in my life. So this may sound crazy. But I already know that you’re something so special. Pretty, smart, and just so amazing. I can already tell that you’re going to be something I want. I want to travel together. I want to do fun things. Experience new things. With you. Does that scare you?”

 

At this point,  yes, I was scared. But I trying to tell myself he’s just excited about a potential. I’ve been there. 

 

So I said:  “Lol No I think it’s really sweet. I like that you’re open. I really look forward to spending more time with you and getting to know so much more about you. I hope I can live up to it. Haha “

 

He kept going. I’m copying and pasting all he said but It was broken up into lines and separated by a few “aww”’s and “” from me 

 

“I want to help you w school... help you achieve your dreams... experience everything with you. The way I felt when I was with you. It’s unexplainable. Don’t be scared by this... but I feel like I’ve been looking for you for ever and ever. And if you let me. I’m going to be so good to you. And keep you forever and ever and ever. I think we could be a pretty amazing couple. I was walking around chicago by myself... just thinking. Damn. I wish she was here. I wanted you by me. My arm around you. Just taking one the sights. Laughing, eating, experiencing. I’ve been single for 6 years. I haven’t had any desire to change that. Until I met you. I’m crushing hard AF right now. I told my friends about you. I want you to tell yours over and over and over how well I treat you eventually. I want all your friends jealous. Like shut up, *****... we know he is the best. Yes. We know, *****, you’re spoiled AF... shut up ******, we know **** treats you like a queen. My mom is going to adore you. My mind is racing. So many thoughts. When we matched. I didn’t realize it was you. When I realized. I was like holy s***. It’s that girl I’m going to make you fall in love with me. I want you to brag to your friends about me. I truly feel like we could do anything together. So I think I should delete the dating apps. I already found my perfect woman. “

 

 

————

 

So by now I’m not responding bc it’s way too much. I left a ton of the stuff he spammed out of this. At one point I said don’t you think we should get to know each other better first? He said of course, but then started spouting about “intuition”. I asked if we could maybe meet and talk about things instead. 

 

I know it sounds crazy but I still like this guy. He seemed very normal (not love bombing or anything like that) in person. It’s definitely made me like him less, but  I wouldn’t mind going on another date with him, but is this already doomed?

 

Is this love bombing? I’m just so confused why someone would act like this. He is almost 40. He’s in the medical profession so he does not do drugs to my knowledge. Is this attractive to some women? A technique.  Or is he just crazy? Feeling like I can’t catch a break.  Calling women who have experienced this before...

Edited January 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[miss2017]

I've had a similar experience last year with a guy with whom I ended up having a on-off relationship that ended badly (I even asked here for advice at the time).

He used to go from love bombing to being completely distant and aloof when things didn't go his way.

He too said all that bull*** about what he wants to do with me, that I was his soulmate, that he wants to do this and that, he even asked me to marry him and gave me an engagement ring soon after we met. Yes I found everything too much and too weird, just like you.

I saw the pattern clearly after we ended and his intentions.

He was trying to get to an outcome. He didn't give a sh** about me, about getting to know me or build a healthy relationship. He only cared about what he wanted to get from me.

So he used his tactics as he knows how a woman is: the soft spoken, the future faking, the soulmate stuff, the romantic things we'll be doing together, etc. Because this kind of man know you are vulnerable and lonely so they push the right buttons with that soft talk. 

They are selfish and self centred. They pretend they care about you just to get an outcome that suits him.

That's why everything went well and smoothly when I played along, but as soon as there was something I didn't like and said out loud and put my boundaries in place, he would become completely different. He would do a tantrum, he would become angry, then distant, just like a toddler who had his favourite toy taken away from him. Because, again, this wasn't about creating a healthy relationship but only about his selfish needs.

So, my advice to you? LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION! You already feel something is off. You already feel something is not right. Listen to it.

Put some boundaries in place and say no to what you don't feel comfortable and see how he reacts. Then you have your answer.

Be very careful as this type of guys suck you into their web pretty easily if you are not careful. So take off your rose-tinted glasses and see him for who he really is.

A real man and a real relationship happens naturally, without empty promises or love bombing. It just flows and feels comfortable all the time. 

You don't feel the need to come here asking this questions. And that I also learned the hard way. Be smart.

Edited January 26, 2020 by miss2017

[Miss Spider]

Wow. Thank you so much @miss2017 ....I’m very sorry that happened to you. 

So my understanding of lovebombing is so they can get your defenses down so that...what? You sleep with them or usually something more sinister? They can control you? Like is there a high chance this guy is a narcissist.  He was very mellow in person. This is disappointing. 

 

Thanks again 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[miss2017]

12 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Wow. Thank you so much @miss2017 ....I’m very sorry that happened to you. 

So my understanding of lovebombing is so they can get your defenses down so that...what? You sleep with them or usually something more sinister? They can control you? Like is there a high chance this guy is a narcissist.  He was very mellow in person. This is disappointing. 

 

Thanks again 

In my case he wasn't a narcissist, I think he had BPD which is in the same spectrum but is less intentional. I mean, a narcissist plans everything carefully and is very conscious, whilst someone with BPD believes they are really in love but is all about their selfish needs. The end result is basically the same: heartache and a waste of time.

Well it can be because they want to sleep with you, it can be because they want someone to meet their daily needs, to feed in your energy, etc.

In my case he wanted a wife. He wanted to have someone to be with everyday to give him attention all-the-time, because he was like an insecure kid. 

So yes the love bombing is to get your defences down and to make you trust them based on... NOTHING. Based on empty promises and future faking.

I advise you to read this article, is so good in helping open your eyes about this: https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/future-faking-is-like-the-emperors-new-clothes/

And check the other articles on that website too, very helpful!

Edited January 26, 2020 by miss2017

[ExpatInItaly]

I would be very off-put by this. He barely knows you, and he's trying to slot you into some fantasy he's already constructed in his head. 

There is a difference between being excited but reasonable, and putting the cart before the horse. In my experience, the folks who do the latter are attempting to fill some void in their lives and don't generally use solid judgement and decision-making skills. That, of course, can become quite problematic in many areas of a relationship. 

He's trying to stake his claim (you) without even knowing you. That isn't what rational, emotionally-mature adults usually do. I would personally tread cautiously here. An ex of mine was like this and it turned out to be the most toxic relationship of my life. He was unstable across the board and the love-bombing at the beginning was just the very tip of the iceberg. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[nospam99]

@cookies. I have a question about your remark 'You sleep with them or usually something more sinister'. Being fairly naive in some ways, the only things I can quickly think of that are more sinister are rape, kidnapping into sexual slavery, or murder. Is that something women really worry about when dealing with men in their social circle? I mean, yeah, this guy is lovebombing. But is what he's done more over the top than lots of other guys? I'm just asking because to me, again with whatever my level of naivete is, he just sounds like any other guy who's playing all the cards he thinks he needs to play to get laid. Seems I've seen MANY topics here on LS where women complain about exactly that: that some guy said all sorts of wonderful things to them just to have sex.

[FMW]

I think it sounds creepy.  A guy said something similar to me a long time ago and I still remember it today because I found it so disturbing.  It set all my warning bells off and I stayed way away from him.  But that's me.

I think you have different tastes and criteria for evaluating men and handle your interactions differently.  So follow your own instincts and have the experiences that are attracting you.  You'll either enjoy them or learn what doesn't work for you.  Most of us learn from experience, not from what others tell us.