Had to walk away from situationship. did I do the right thing?

[Snorlili90]

Was seeing someone for a few months, about twice a week. Dates and sex and so on. Around the 6th week I realised I liked him but also that I initiated most contact, the guy was always available and enthusiastic to meet me so I hadn’t really noticed, he just did what I said and care to places I told him to come to.

 

i watch a lot of dating advice YouTube and articles and they all said 6-8 weeks is a good time to place your intention.  So I told him, in a non smiley baggy way that I enjoyed time with him but that I wanted a boyfriend by Xmas (which was around 6 weeks away) that I liked him, and that the boyfriend could be him if he were interested but that if he wasnt interested I was going to see other people. (Up until this point he had made a point of asking me if I was seeing anyone else and telling me he was seeing no one) he hesitated and said something like “I mean... I could date you...” as this wasn’t very enthusiastic I ignored it.

 

we continued seeing each other a little less, once  a week to ten days and I starter some dates with others.  He asked if we could go overseas together.  This overseas trip would be the day after xmas which I had considered my deadline to cut him off but I agreed and we planned it and went. 
it was a great trip and he even told a shop keeper I was his girlfriend, we went to a romantic  ball-gown party thing too where he was very touchy feely in public.

after this party I asked him about what he had said to the shop keeper.  And again he began stuttering “err umm I mean I can date you its just...”

I sighed and did the speech I had looked up on a YouTube channel. I told him this wasn’t ok for me, I needed the label to feel safe, and I could not understand why  he said he wasn’t seeing someone else and asked me the same if he didn’t want to be exclusive. He wanted to continue the current arrangement. He said some things like “I don’t text you enough you wouldn’t like it..... I’ve broken up with people before like that:.: if we just stay like this we won’t break up”

i don’t know if he is avoidant or just Nanking excuses or both. I don’t want someone who isn’t enthusiastic about me. And I felt those things he mentioned aren’t real issues when you like someone. If he really does have an avoidant attachment style it’s not my problem, he needs therapy and he needs to communicate more with me; I’m always happy to communicate but I can’t if others won’t try so I dropped it.

i said that when we got home I didn’t went to see him anymore because meeting him was blocking me form meeting a new person. I told him I had been on dates with others and it was going well and despite him thinking that our current situation would mean no break up me meeting another person would ensure a breakup anyway. He was shocked about the other guys and asked about them. I told him “I warned you 6 weeks ago I would start dating other people”

and that it was none of his business who these men were. He was insistent so I explained their jobs and personalities a little. I reconfirmed that I liked him but needed security. (We are both 30)

then the next day I stayed nice for most of it by the time we got to the airport I was stone cold and avoided speaking.

since we landed all we said was goodbye. He was clearly upset, he hasn’t contacted me for the shoes he left at my house.

i realise there’s was nothing else I could have done. I’m not a mind reader and I don’t need to give favours to someone who isn’t my boyfriend. I feel sad for people who have avoidant attachment style but there’s nothing I can do about it.  People who are avoidant can date and even get married they just need to try harder.

 

anyway I won’t be contacting him again; I have to stay firm, I just feel really sad, we had a lot of fun and 4 months is ages for me. It didn’t feel like fwb or anything like that at all, real dating to me. It’s only been 11 days. 
I’m hoping he will miss me and message in time. my friends have honestly all been scratching their heads.  They genuinely thought he would say “I want to date you”

maybe the 6 week warning felt flakey because I kept seeing him? (Despite the decide by Xmas thing?)
maybe he just thinks I like him so much I’ll come back and play by his rules?

maybe he thinks I want marriage and is scared? (Never said I wanted anything other than a boyfriend though, not even into kids.  Marriage and children is something I can be persuaded into if a boyfriend goes well for a long time, I’m very logical about stuff like that)

 

Anyway I guess I just wanted to rant and wanted feedback I know I shouldn’t contact him

i know there’s nothing I could have done (can’t force people to do stuff)

and I have some other people to focus on who are more serious and enthusiastic.

 

sorry about the English. I’m not a native speaker, I also wondered if this guy was refusing to date me because I’m not a native English speaker but I think that’s just my insecurities trying to play tricks on me.( That’s a stupid reason)

 

[ExpatInItaly]

Sorry this happened. 

I don't necessarily think this about having an avoidant attachment style. From what you have written, we don't have enough information about him to arrive at that conclusion.  I believe he enjoyed your company and wanted you to continue being available to him when it suited (such as having a travel buddy) but he either doesn't want to commit to something more at this time or, for whatever reason, he doesn't feel strongly enough about you to take it further. Not pleasant to think about, I know, but it's entirely possible. 

It was best to walk away from this. It wasn't going in the direction you'd hoped. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Lotsgoingon]

So good job to stand up for yourself ... now you wanna go a step further.

The trip was a bad idea ... don't care if it in the most beautiful resort across the world.  A trip to the local greasy spoon would have been better ... as long as he committed to dating.  The deadline was good, but you missed some early signs that this guy wasn't at all interested in dating you. 

#1 You can't convince someone to date you. We all have tried ... 99 percent of the time, we fail. Either the person REALLY, seriously wants to date you ... or not ... It's pretty much all or nothing. Mixed feelings, hesitation, not sure ... "I COULD date you" ... that's all in the nothing category. Relations require two people who are delighted to be with the other person.

#2: NEVER assume sex is evidence of bonding or desire to date. It's not. Great sex can do a lot of things. One thing it can't do is get someone to commit to you or even like you better. Might get them to see you more often, can't get them to like you.  

Time to lose the "I didn't notice" unawareness that YOU were always initiating. That's fact number 1 that you have to notice as we meet people. Yes, rule out murderer first ... then for dating, are they initiating. One reason it is smart not to always initiate is literally to see if the other person is interested.  You don't need the deadline ... you use the "initiative test" to judge their interest.

Once he said I "could" date you ... pause right there. That's a "no." That's a statement of disinterest disguised in some kinda cover. A guy having sex with a woman does not go along without thinking about "dating"--even if it's to avoid committing to dating.  

 

 

[Snorlili90]

Thanks for the kind words 

And I will be even stricter in the future! But I was keeping an eye carefully on it... and I did continue to date so I didn’t totally waste my time.

i was just going by videos and tutorials and stuff.  Lots of people make decisions when you put a deadline on stuff because many people try to get away with what they can. Watching dating videos has in a way dehumanised people For me because I’ve started to think of everything a scarcity and demand. And that’s what drives people to commit instead of feelings of happiness.  Really sad to watch.

I was having fun and felt all our communications and time together were really easy and great.  Even the trip was honestly really fun and we never had a fight.  I asked a few friends before I left and they all said “if you want to go just enjoy the trip and forget about him, you’ll know by the end of the trip at least” my friends aren’t stupid either. And when he told the store lady I was his girlfriend after 3 great days I thought he had finally made up his mind and the trip had sealed the deal.

I doubt he will find much better as I consider myself a ten in terms of money, looks job, fun etc .   if it’s just lame commitment phobia he will be lonely and missing out for a long time.

he Still hasn’t contacted me about his shoes. (Expensive suit shoes)  Can I just throw them out and say I don’t have them if he uses it as an excuse to contact me?

my friends all seem really baffled at his behaviour.  I agree not texting a lot isn’t a great sign, but my friends still say his other behaviours trump this as he seemed passive in many behavioural senses. Kind of introverted and not going out that much due to work etc. But many other things we did were so clearly couple-y And his suggestion... like photos in traditional Korean marriage outfits and so on.

They seem sure he’ll message me... but I don’t know what to do when he does other than pretend I never had the shoes >_> 

maybe I can sell them.... not sure....

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

You cant tell a guy "You can be my boyfriend in a month" that is incredibly unappealing. Any guy who has any amount of options at all will be exploring those options the second he hears this.

If you dont mind, plug the youtube video you got this advice from

[GeorgiaPeach1]

You gave him everything he wanted and assumed he'd offer a commitment at some point. You should have made it clear up front that your goal is a relationship, and he should have been clear up front that he was seeking something casual. 

[scooby-philly]

as a decent, down-to-earth, hardworking guy - if you're having sex and he can't commit to you then there's something going on. Maybe he has a severe mental health problem. Maybe he's been hurt in the past and can't trust people yet. (Though, if that were the case you could have been a little more kind and reassuring to him if he was an affectionate, sweet guy)....but it's not your "job" to fix him. Or who knows what else. Safe to say that in the future - if you give a man an ultimatum like that then move on if there's a second of hesitation. Good rule of thumb though - mature, happy, experienced guys don't wait for the woman to ask them.

[kendahke]

What he has shown you is the best you're going to get from him.  He's not wired to give more; he knows exactly what you want and he has no intention on giving that to you---- and you're going to have to fine and never complain about the treatment (read: be a volunteer for the treatment) if you choose to continue with him.

I'd hold firm to my standards, since they're important to you, and not sell myself out in order to not be alone while with someone who won't arse himself.

Don't squander your youth behind this male--it's time you'll never recoup.

 

BTW==Your English is very good

Edited January 13, 2020 by kendahke

[SumGuy]

Good you let him know you have timelines and certain non-negotiable criteria, better he finds out now than latter.   Would suggest in the future you make this clear much sooner and not go on an oversees trip with someone when the guy has not yet met these criteria.

[PinkFlamingo]

3 hours ago, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

You cant tell a guy "You can be my boyfriend in a month" that is incredibly unappealing. Any guy who has any amount of options at all will be exploring those options the second he hears this.

If you dont mind, plug the youtube video you got this advice from

Yeah, let her date him for a couple of  months more until she finally sees that he does not want to be in a relationship with her. Ultimatums usually don't work, but on the other hand, neither did the other stuff that had been tried before. 

[Snorlili90]

Thanks again for the kind words

I do want to say that I don’t know that I want a relationship immediately either, I think it’s fair to test someone out and grow to like them a. Bit before I decide anything. I was once seeing a guy weekly for 9 weeks when suddenly he said “I hate gays” and I just couldn’t see him again after that. I had almost committed to him.

i hadn’t  been searching for a boyfriend, only enjoying dating and since we kept meeting often and had fun I grew to like him, this is the first time in a while that I felt this way. Most people are pretty bleh to me. Not fun enough

the dating coaches that say about the making a deadline or ultimatum and stuff are Elliot scott, mark rosenfeld and Amy north 

they say at about 6 weeks you have the relationship talk. Some say that’s the day you should leave, others say you just explain you’ll start dating other people and cutting back on time with them and make a deadline.  
 

I do know people who casually saw people for 6 months to a year before becoming official and some people swear that any earlier than 6 months is rushing things,  I guess we are all different. I just don’t like mixed messages so I guess I’m not one of those people.

I chose the latter. I never said he could be my boyfriend in a month, I said I lead looking for one and would have to put a deadline on us if he had not decided within a month. As far as I can see I did everything really well.  I have a friend who is a psychologist and she also said I did as well as could be for the situation. She’s also stumped as to why it didn’t work out. But someone above said they had a mental problem or pain From old relationships or abandonment issue. My friend said that’s possible too.

not much I can do about it
thanks for saying my English is good.... yay!

[Miss Spider]

I can’t say I agree with this ultimatum strategy. Having to basically threaten someone into being my bf doesn’t sound appealing. If I was going to be in a relationship, I’d rather it be with someone who actually felt inspired to be with because they think I’m awesome, not someone’s arm I had to twist

Edited January 14, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Snorlili90]

I also agree ultimatums are bad. But it’s more that you ask if they want to be with you or not...and if they say no, you just say that’s okay but that you want something else and walk away. That’s what I did. I mean why threaten someone who isn’t interested?

you can let someone know kindly that they can feel however they want but that you want or need something else so you don’t have to meet them anymore and you can explore other options aka see someone else.in the cases of people who are trying to take advantage or who felt they could have multiple partners this may encourage them to go after  a person who has values etc 

in this case it wasn’t enough, but I think i did it in the best way possible (and it happens to be a way all the experts recommend)

Again I know people who have played the game much longer with wishy washy people and won after a longer time with longer attachment. I personally didn’t want to try that. That would cause anxiety for me:

im not seeking validation here, I did this masterfully, I just feel sad anyway.  I realise he has a problem that runs deeper and it’s not my problem to fix.

i still have the other men as options too

saw one yestedsy Infact.

(another thing all dating coaches on YouTube recommend, see many people and don’t give all your time to one person until it’s totally official, and even if it is offical it they’re not being a great partner get ready for someone better)

 

[DKT3]

I actually think you did it about as poorly as it can be done.

I often tell women (albeit slightly different situation) is believe a mans actions.  His actions were saying I like you....not dating anyone else,  taking you on a trip. But because his words weren't what you wanted to hear you sabotaged,  yes sabotaged the relationship.

Now, this makes no sense...you pressed the guy to be your official boyfriend,  then stated you don't want a relationship.  That is pure sabotage.  Reading between the lines,  I believe your goal was dating others all along,  not sure why you needed to play this game. All you had to do was simply date several guys until you were ready to be in a committed relationship.  Could have been done drama free.

[Snorlili90]

39 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

I actually think you did it about as poorly as it can be done.

I often tell women (albeit slightly different situation) is believe a mans actions.  His actions were saying I like you....not dating anyone else,  taking you on a trip. But because his words weren't what you wanted to hear you sabotaged,  yes sabotaged the relationship.

Now, this makes no sense...you pressed the guy to be your official boyfriend,  then stated you don't want a relationship.  That is pure sabotage.  Reading between the lines,  I believe your goal was dating others all along,  not sure why you needed to play this game. All you had to do was simply date several guys until you were ready to be in a committed relationship.  Could have been done drama free.

I’m sorry but I don’t see how I did any of those things.   The total opposite in fact. His actions and words said “I don’t want to date you, I want to see you casually”

and I didn’t  want that which I expressed a few times.... and getting a lame answer decided let it go.  I simply enjoyed the trip, which I do not regret, I love travelling regardless, I’m not negative in that way.

no one I have told could understand the “hey I’m not seeing anyone else , are you? Let’s go overseas together but this is casual“ mentality.

  It would have taken very little effort for him to say “I want to be your boyfriend ok let’s date.”

Very lazy.

also there is a mentality here that men are in control, he didn’t take me overseas.

i took him overseas, I’m bilingual and I know where to go, he asked me if I would show him around. I usually get paid for tour guiding stuff though.

[ExpatInItaly]

Sometimes people just don't feel the right chemistry with someone to want to make it long-term. 

It doesn't necessarily mean that you are not a 10/10, or that he has avoidance or childhood issues. It might simply be a case of you not being the right woman for him. It's not always as complicated as we think. 

[dramallama]

I don't know how old you are but I'm going to assume you're a lot younger than me.

It stood out to me that after 6 weeks you told him you wanted a boyfriend by Christmas - now I'm not sure if this is just how you phrased it here, but that would get my hackles up - why set an arbitary deadline? And if I were him I might be thinking is it just *any* boyfriend and I'm here so I'm it?

I've been seeing someone since late August, we said we were exclusive late Sept but we've not defined anything further - but it's unfolding really nicely.  He's increasingly open about how he feels, we're in touch multiple times a day, and he's just asked me to get involved with one of his goals for 2020. Is he my boyfriend? Um, probably? Who cares?

It's really freeing ignoring everyone else's timetables and expectations on labels and just getting to know someone. It makes for far less friction and drama, too. Just a thought

 

[Aus]

You did the right thing. Look up the term "passive reciprocation." Had you not pulled the plug on this situationship when you did, this loop could have carried on much longer, you reaching out, arranging all your activities and dates with him merely showing up with a smile and a boner. That's a lot of heavy lifting. I'm sure he's a good guy, but for whatever reason he's not certain about you, or something is going on with him, also not your problem to decipher and analyze.  If it's not a "hell yes" then it's a "hell NO" 

Men usually decide if they want you as a girlfriend by the 90 day mark, he fumbled when push came to shove. And that's data that you shouldn't ignore. 

And FFS, your English is perfect! 

YouTube: Shallon Lester

 

 

 

[schlumpy]

Nothing wrong with what you did. You kept control, gave him an opportunity that he failed to respond to. You moved on. I am a bit bothered by your lack of emotion. Sad isn't a very deep emotion when you are looking for love.

The one feature of your story that I found interesting is that when you went on the trip he was very public with you but I got the impression that when you two were on your home turf, he was more secretive about the relationship. If I got it right, there has to be a reason for that. 

[Snorlili90]

37 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Nothing wrong with what you did. You kept control, gave him an opportunity that he failed to respond to. You moved on. I am a bit bothered by your lack of emotion. Sad isn't a very deep emotion when you are looking for love.

The one feature of your story that I found interesting is that when you went on the trip he was very public with you but I got the impression that when you two were on your home turf, he was more secretive about the relationship. If I got it right, there has to be a reason for that. 

It was on the last day he got really affectionate but he had held my hand in public several times in our city.  I felt it was the effect of him being around me several days straight that had opened him up but maybe you’re right... maybe there’s something I’m missing:

im more or less trying to keep the positive outlook dating coaches use.  “If he’s not interested enough the only word you need to say is “next!”

how I really feel is, clearly bad enough to bother strangers on a forum about it and keep replying to them, so pretty bad. Ranting to my friends wasn’t enough.

 

i also felt the “not a hell yes”

then a “hell no” was accurate

I tried to use that as my reasoning too.

 

as for dramalama 

I didn’t just say I wanted a boyfriend by Christmas, I explained that we had been seeing each other for a while and that we should decide what was going on, my deadline was another 6 weeks in the future as that would be between 3 and 4 months and as stated above the kind of timeline most dating coaches use.

 

i previously didn’t care for labels but there comes a time where you’ve been seeing someone half a year and they turn around and say “I Harv a girlfriend! See ya”

or you’ve been seeing someone a year and a half and they stare at you and say.... oh I like you but... we aren’t anything....

I would like stability. And if there is no promise or stability or label... then can I see someone else when I’m bored? Can he? That’s the issue in reality. And if he liked me enough... why get weird when I ask? There was some issue I couldn’t see and he wouldn’t discuss so what I did was right.

im not crazy about getting married or having children. But I really don’t want to get aids or find out I’m competing with 5 people or get ghosted because they met someone else: you’d be surprised how much you see that happening. Since I’m in my 30s and so is he I expect more clarity and taking it responsibility..... but to each their own I guess.

peronally I don’t see people more than a few times if I don’t like them much even if they were inviting me and I was bored and they had money... if I wasn’t interested I Would  probably refuse at a certain point. But again everyone is different.

 

thanks everyone!

[JTSW]

It sounds like he has been hurt in the past so tries not to get too attached.

It sounded like he really did like you and i think it would've headed to exclusivity eventually, he just wasn't ready quite yet. 

He was enjoying your company and spending time with you.

Then you threw deadlines and ultimatums at him which stopped him in his tracks.

You put unnecessary pressure on him. 

What was the rush?

What's wrong with going with the flow and seeing where it takes you?

I agree with DKT3 that you sabotaged this. You were pretty brutal.

I  don't agree with deadlines and ultimatums.

[MaleIntuition]

Wow.

You need to stop watching those YouTube videos ASAP. Artificial made up deadlines are just that; artificial and made up. You can pretend all you want that you communicated well in this scenario, but the fact is the that you didn’t. Has it even occurred to you that you might have had different definitions of what it means to be in a committed relationship? In this scenario it’s very likely that you were in an exclusive relationship (as in; neither were seeing others), until you decided - based on bad information - that wasn’t enough, because of reasons.

Communication (especially good communication) isn’t about reading memorised lines from YouTube, but about listening and trying to understand one another. This is were you failed. 

Armchair diagnosing someone and claiming that they need therapy makes you sound somewhat arrogant. 

[kendahke]

OP--watch what you need to watch and get the information you need to get to make the decisions you feel are in your best interests.

If he's not stepping quickly enough, then he gets left behind. Let him be scared about relationships on his own time and by himself while you move on. 

And the truth is the truth--if he needs therapy in your estimation, then that's a valid conclusion.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Edited January 14, 2020 by kendahke

[SumGuy]

If you’d did the “right thing” depends upon what you want.

  I don’t think you’re going to get a genuine deep love relationship with your approach, but that you have gravitated to this approach makes me believe that is not necessarily what you desire.   It seems you want a “committed” man who meets certain “provider” criteria.  I don’t doubt their is a guy who will jump through such hoops, just not the best ones.

i think the right thing is to set forth your expectations by the third date.  I agree on expecting exclusivity if sleeping with someone, but any more?   You can’t hurry love, you just have to wait, love don’t come easy, it’s a game of give and take...

There's a lot space between letting men walk all over you and the demanding approach you are taking  

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by SumGuy

[stillafool]

I think he enjoyed your company and the intimacy but isn't sure he wants to settle down yet.  It sounds like once he becomes a bf  the next step will be engagement and then marriage.  He's only 30 and isn't in or doesn't have to be in a rush to settle down yet.  He's got time and no bio clock.   It didn't seem like you two saw each other very often so he is probably seeing other girls too.  No man that is having sex with you is going to want you dating and possibly having sex with others.  Don't take his state of shock when you told him as a sign of love.  I think if you knew in your mind that if he didn't ask you to be his gf by Christmas you should have kept it to yourself and if he didn't ask you by then, start seeing other guys.  There was no need to announce it to him.  You want someone to want you on their own not because you put pressure on them.