Women putting pressure to go on date and how to behave on date. Is dating too much of a game?

January 12, 2020

Good evening everyone,

I hope you're well and have had a good weekend.

I have a dating dilemma. I have just been on a date with a woman who contacted me back in December, but I didn't realise as I have been having a bad experience with dating and quit from October till now( see thread girl rejected me after three dates and three kisses). When I met the girl I have just been on a date with online, she would withhold answers to general questions like why does your boss annoy you? and say we can discuss that on first date from the beginning of the conversation. That is all fair enough but it made me feel a little uncomfortable as I felt she felt if we talked a lot on text there would be nothing to speak about in real life and also we hadn't spoken too much before arranging a date. Furthermore, I've had a cold sore this week, which is the worst preparation ever for a date as it looks gross. I asked to reschedule yesterday and she basically said she doesn't mind, but she doesn't really speak to a person for more than a few days without going on a date. So I felt if I didn't agree to date and not reschedule then she wouldn't bother to contact me again. So I went on the date despite the cold sore. I was with her from 1pm to 4.30pm, date seemed okay and there was no awkward silences and I felt we got along, but I could never tell what she was thinking.

On this forum I complained about the amount of money I spend on dates and people gave various suggestions for cheap dates (coffee, museum, ice cream etc) but that never pans out. I wrote something on my dating profile about wanting to learn chopsticks and that was a private joke so we ended up going to a Thai restaurant then a different restaurant for dessert. I paid for the Thai and for the other restaurant (she asked if she should contribute, I felt awkward and said no). However, she told me how a guy took her to a Leon for a date, which is more of a takeaway place and not really a date place, which she thought was weird. This makes me feel a lot of people have an expectation of where to be taken, but I see a date as just an opportunity to get to know each other in person. Also a lot of people want to meet close to their house, which is usually very far from mine. How can you limit your investment/time in dates as most of them end up going nowhere? Most men on online dating will do a lot more to go on a date with a woman they find attractive...but at the same time it not economical to travel miles and spend lots of money on people who may not even be interested.

At end of date I didn't get a bad vibe or a good vibe, I said did you have fun? she said yes... (no hug) and then she said thanks for lunch, see you around. I want to contact her but I'm not sure what to say?

January 12, 2020

Just now, Lamron300 said:

At end of date I didn't get a bad vibe or a good vibe, I said did you have fun? she said yes... (no hug) and then she said thanks for lunch, see you around. I want to contact her but I'm not sure what to say?

If this is the way a date ends, I would not expect a 2nd date.

Dating properly isn't cheap. Lunch dates, coffee dates, museum dates, movie dates, 'go for a walk' dates, will save you money but waste your time. It's very difficult to escalate sexual tension in such a platonic setting.

A high-probability date should be in the evening, it should be over drinks, and ideally it should involve sharing food. In this setting, it's easy to flirt, escalate, and make things fun and sexual. It's easier to read her body language and gauge her interest. It's easier to go for the kiss and have the night lead to sex, which is what you want to happen on a date. Not necessarily sex, but there should be expressions of sexual attraction.

A date is not just an opportunity to get to know someone. It's an opportunity to create sexual tension and have things lead to sexual intercourse. It's not a time for deep, introspective, philosophical conversation. That's a huge mistake a lot of guys make on dates, that you are there to search deep into her soul. Keep things light, fun, flirty, and *sexual.*

January 12, 2020

I think you have your guard up & it reads like game playing to some women. Most people want to transition from on line to real life quickly. When somebody gives excuses about why the 1st meeting isn't panning out, the other person writes them off as wasting time. It's good that you did go on this date.

You need to re-assess your own mind set. This first time meeting somebody off OLD is not a date. It's a meeting. Stop thinking of it as a date & be willing to adjust your expectations & expenditures downward. You really do need to do something quick ( < 2 hours) & cheap for that 1st meeting. Do not buy them dinner. Just stop with that. You will go broke.

You go. You meet them. You have a brief conversation & during that meeting you decide if you want to go on an actual date. Then you can spring for dinner or whatever. Not before.

As for her holding back over your text conversations, stop thinking you can get to know somebody through text. You can't. Texting is for quick info exchanges. It's not for getting to know you. To ask her to write down something negative about her boss was just wrong on your part. What if he hacked her phone? Even if he's the worse boss in the world, you don't want that in writing. I can understand why she declined to answer your Q. It's also not a good get to know you Q. It's too deep & too fraught with landmines. Just like you don't talk about EXs, this was a bad subject.

January 12, 2020

1 hour ago, Lamron300 said:

... This makes me feel a lot of people have an expectation of where to be taken, but I see a date as just an opportunity to get to know each other in person. Also a lot of people want to meet close to their house, which is usually very far from mine. How can you limit your investment/time in dates as most of them end up going nowhere? Most men on online dating will do a lot more to go on a date with a woman they find attractive...but at the same time it not economical to travel miles and spend lots of money on people who may not even be interested.

On travel I judge it by time not miles. I usually pick something near their stated town but hopefully in a location easy to get to from my house, or somewhat in between. I chose near them out of courtesy for their home turf, and also I like to explore and try new places. Depending on geography you may just have to accept travel especially if you are the one living in the out of the way place.

On date costs, first dates are really just first meets. Just avoid making them into meals. You meet for a few drinks to talk, that is it. Even in NYC should be able to get 2 drinks each for $40 total. Or stick to coffee meets which should be like $15 total max, then a walk and talk.

Don't suggest or plan dinner or lunch. If savvy you pick a place that afford the opportunity for food IF things click. If things don't click exit before food and expense. Don't think you buying her dinner is going to change a maybe to a yes. A woman into you for you isn't going to need to be impressed by money. Also if cost is an issue DO let her pay when she offers.

January 12, 2020

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

I think you have your guard up & it reads like game playing to some women. Most people want to transition from on line to real life quickly. When somebody gives excuses about why the 1st meeting isn't panning out, the other person writes them off as wasting time. It's good that you did go on this date.

You need to re-assess your own mind set. This first time meeting somebody off OLD is not a date. It's a meeting. Stop thinking of it as a date & be willing to adjust your expectations & expenditures downward. You really do need to do something quick ( < 2 hours) & cheap for that 1st meeting. Do not buy them dinner. Just stop with that. You will go broke.

Hi,

Thanks for your response. I agree with what you're saying about first time should be a 'meeting' but all the women I meet don't agree to that. What I mean by that is they usually suggested what we can do and where we should meet. She suggested the restaurant and she suggested the area to meet. I'm not keen on food dates anymore, too expensive and I feel its hard to get personality across. Also the fact that most people wouldn't say no to a free meal with no attachments, means a lot of people can go into a date with the mindset of 'at worst I'll get a free meal'.

Another woman asked me on a date last week and she suggested we see a movie and go to her favourite street food market in Central London. Once again, its quite a while to travel and cinema isn't a good date in my opinion and food once again. With the last girl that I really liked and went on three dates with, she suggested we go to a ski festival for second date, it was rubbish as it was quiet and not much to do and I couldn't really get to know her much in that date. But I felt if I said no (she already had two tickets) she would just go with someone else.

Sorry I didn't add context. She was messaging me about how her boss talks behind her boss and I said why don't you like them? do they do this often? and she said aha thats a question for first date territory and other things she said I'll tell you more in person as its long to type out. I didn't just randomly ask. Also, like I said I have a cold sore and didn't want to meet her today, maybe in next 2/3 days but she basically said if I didn't meet her today, we wouldn't meet. I felt that was kind of unreasonable as I didn't plan to get a cold sore and it is something I felt conscious about on date. I've never cancelled on anyone, but being ill isn't my fault.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Lamron300

January 12, 2020

1 hour ago, rjc149 said:

If this is the way a date ends, I would not expect a 2nd date.

Dating properly isn't cheap. Lunch dates, coffee dates, museum dates, movie dates, 'go for a walk' dates, will save you money but waste your time. It's very difficult to escalate sexual tension in such a platonic setting.

A date is not just an opportunity to get to know someone. It's an opportunity to create sexual tension and have things lead to sexual intercourse. It's not a time for deep, introspective, philosophical conversation. That's a huge mistake a lot of guys make on dates, that you are there to search deep into her soul. Keep things light, fun, flirty, and *sexual.*

I asked to meet at 4pm as I thought that was a good time and gave me time to sort some things out, she said can we meet at 1pm, so I agreed to that. I agree that a lot of times it is hard to strike up sexual tension and you can just end up asking questions just for the sake of it.

January 12, 2020

Yes there are no easy fixes with the online dating(well maybe occasionally you can get lucky)

generally you have to be prepared to incur plenty of expensive trips which yield no return,

then you might find someone at some point ,

lol could take 3 dates, could take 33,

a cheap coffee date for an hour or so usually suffices for a first date and you can invest more then if there is a second date,

this one seemed to go ok at over 3 hours, but agree would like to at least see a hug at the end of it,

still no harm to say you enjoyed the date, loved your company, and fancy meeting up next week.

January 12, 2020

6 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

On travel I judge it by time not miles. I usually pick something near their stated town but hopefully in a location easy to get to from my house, or somewhat in between. I chose near them out of courtesy for their home turf, and also I like to explore and try new places. Depending on geography you may just have to accept travel especially if you are the one living in the out of the way place.

On date costs, first dates are really just first meets. Just avoid making them into meals. You meet for a few drinks to talk, that is it. Even in NYC should be able to get 2 drinks each for $40 total. Or stick to coffee meets which should be like $15 total max, then a walk and talk.

Don't suggest or plan dinner or lunch. If savvy you pick a place that afford the opportunity for food IF things click. If things don't click exit before food and expense. Don't think you buying her dinner is going to change a maybe to a yes. A woman into you for you isn't going to need to be impressed by money. Also if cost is an issue DO let her pay when she offers.

Thanks. What would you suggest to a woman for a date? Like I said I've been asked out by women quite a bit recently (not sure why) and they usually suggest food or drinks and usually a spot in London. The woman I met today spoke about how a guy took her on a cheap date ( I didn't see a problem with the place he suggested, its more of a takeaway but they do good food). When I meet someone all I want to do is get to know them a bit better in person, gauge their interest and then go with my gut feeling. A lot of women suggest things or dates that I feel if date doesn't go well I'd feel bad about going on that date as it is quite 'heavy'. If it was up to me we would sit in a park somewhere and just chat and maybe have a drink, but I feel most people wouldn't accept that.

Yes you're right I should have just said okay she could could 'contribute', but I mean seeing as I had paid £50 ($65) for the first meal (where she didn't offer to pay) I would've thought she said don't worry let me get this for the second.

I'm just very bummed about the fact that she wouldn't have agreed to reschedule even though its not my fault I have an infected looking cold sore pop out of nowhere. Surely if you want to meet someone, you'd agree to a reschedule a few days later. It just like me feels this is a game.

January 12, 2020

2 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

Yes there are no easy fixes with the online dating(well maybe occasionally you can get lucky)

generally you have to be prepared to incur plenty of expensive trips which yield no return,

then you might find someone at some point ,

lol could take 3 dates, could take 33,

a cheap coffee date for an hour or so usually suffices for a first date and you can invest more then if there is a second date,

I agree with what you've said and thats why I need to spend less money on dates. If I go on 3 dates a month and spend as much as I did today, it becomes a substantial amount of money for what essentially is talking to a stranger. I don't want to go on loads of dates, but I haven't met anyone yet who seems to want to get serious. People say its a success to go on dates and be asked on dates by women on OLD as the odds aren't in mens favour, but I don't feel that way. Like I said she could have no interest in me whatsoever but she's got a free meal out of it, at least if I can suggest something basic/inexpensive I can gauge peoples actual interest.

3.5 hours didn't seem like a bad time out, she said she had gym at 6 and we left at 4.30 because of that. She hugged on arrival but not on leaving, I have a cold sore so was never going to kiss anyway. However, I don't know the goodbye seemed a bit unsure...didn't feel me with confidence. I want to message her at 10pm and say I had a good time, but I'm worried about what if she ignores me or friendzones me.

January 12, 2020

16 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

I wouldn't meet any women when you have a cold sore. Just as bad first impression. Wait until that crap goes away before you even consider a date.

Do NOT spend a ton of money on dates. These women are basically strangers and are not entitled to your money. Besides, if she is worth dating anyway, and actually likes you, she won't be adding up the dollars you spent on her.

Yeah I didn't want to meet with a cold sore, but like I said she told me if I didn't meet her then and cancelled date would never happen.

It is hard to understand what is considered a good time. What I mean by that is in the settings of where we were, apart from good food and decent conversation I'm not sure what else could have occurred. We went to the restaurant she chose, she said she enjoyed her food, we spoke for 3.5 hours no awkward silences.It wasn't different to what I would expect on a date. She already said before the date she doesn't kiss on first date and I had cold sore anyway, so I knew it wouldn't go that far regardless of the time we were having/had.

I agree with what you're saying and I don't know if I should even message her. I felt that the date was okay, nothing I would have done differently but like you said it is possible she felt not 'blown away'. 'See you around' part is the worse as if she was interested surely she would say see you again soon.

But that is the problem I also have on dates, there are some things she said/did that I didn't like but I'd be willing to see her again, I don't know why I'm not as ruthless as others.

January 12, 2020

I used to have this attitude that anything goes for first dates. No more. I do admit, I did have a 12-hr date with someone once, but it consisted of a free-admit museum, movie I wanted to see, and dinner at an inexpensive restaurant. Had a great time and the more I learned about her, it was obvious that it wasn't going to work.

Being ruthless is not a character trait people should try to attain. Like so many people, you may simply be desperate for some connection and therefore, more willing to forgive...even at your own expense.

January 13, 2020

4 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

3.5 hours didn't seem like a bad time out, she said she had gym at 6 and we left at 4.30 because of that. She hugged on arrival but not on leaving, I have a cold sore so was never going to kiss anyway. However, I don't know the goodbye seemed a bit unsure...didn't feel me with confidence. I want to message her at 10pm and say I had a good time, but I'm worried about what if she ignores me or friendzones me.

She wasn’t feeling it, OP. I’ve been on enough bad dates to know when there won’t be a second. Your intuition is right. There won’t be another date with this girl. Learn from this, grow, and move on.

Don’t go on dates with a cold sore or an acne breakout, that’s 101. The purpose of the date is to flirt, seduce, and close for the kiss. Not to hang out and force small talk and show her what a respectful gentleman you are who would never impose himself on anyone. And when you set a date for 4pm and she says to do 1 instead, say “no, I’ll be busy at 1, howabout another day then.” Be a little unavailable and less accommodating, especially in the beginning. Busy is sexy.

And if she is telling you it’s now or she’ll cancel the date entirely, tell her she can go f—k herself. Don’t let her dictate terms like that. If you comply and eagerly jump through her hoops just to be graced by her company for lunch, she’ll find you repulsive.

Edited January 13, 2020 by rjc149

January 13, 2020

I've had the exact same issue with the woman suggesting restaurants and movies on first dates. I've gone through a bit of money too I've decided I'm just gonna be straight wth em from now on and tell em I'm on. A budget no shame or they can pay

January 13, 2020

I know a woman that lives out of her car and relies on guys off Tinder/PoF to feed her.

I met her online and she pushed me to buy a bunch of s***, I said No and since that time, we have been friends and talk candidly about our lives. The thing that bothers me is that she seemed normal until she told me the above tidbit.

January 13, 2020

If you are feeling pressurized by her now, how do you think that's going to pan out further down the line?

She obviously didn't give a s##t about a minor illness, how's she going to be in a major one?

Don't allow yourself to be a pushover. This one doesn't deserve anymore time.

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