alphamale Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, preraph said: I would NOT give him the scarf. I would give him the cookies only. I would just give him a lump of coal 1
Lotsgoingon Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 Yes, time to have the talk ... but ... I don't know if this is relevant but I'll share. Almost every time--heck EVERYTIME!--I've been weeks or months into dating and I feel we have to have the talk ... there was a problem ... Tdalking did not resolve the problem. Order reversal here ... the reason we have to have the talk is because something isn't clicking into place. Yeah, totally normal at some point to have a check in--are we dating only each other?--totally normal. But a check-in confirmation can be like 2 minutes. But when I feel like there's this canyon I have to leap across--that The Talk is this leap--something is off. So I would encourage you to get clear with yourself ... try as hard as you can to push your hopes aside and really look at this person ... Has he impressed you with the way he shows his appreciation of you? Is this someone who can give you the attention you want, the priority you want, the affection you want? Based on who he is right now--yes or no? The last time I had to have the talk with someone, we ended up dating a few months, and then she dumped me. BTW: I am so happy she dumped me ... That relationship, I quickly came to see, was going nowhere and I learned a lot from dating this person. She was quite physically affectionate ... but something was missing ... I could not figure out at first what it was. What was missing was the spontaneous statements about enjoying time with me, those spontaneous unprompted statements of how happy she was to be with me. And she hesitated in telling her gf's about me. Anyway, after that experience (which had happened before) I came to this conclusion. If in the normal course of things I am not affectionate with someone (somehow don't find the right moment to physically connect without an official conversation) ... then something ain't right. One of us is throwing up distance or feeling uncomfortable. So first, be extremely realistic before you have the talk. My view is that there is a lot going on in social interactions that is hard to identify ... a lot of subtle, deeply subtle signals going on back and forth. And if you're feeling distant, often there's a real reason for that. Your body can pick up that someone isn't available ... or has some block ... even if you don't have to words to explain it. 8
Calmandfocused Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 MO Im a divorced mother of 2 very young children. They live with me and see their father every other weekend. My ex boyfriend did not meet my children until I dated him a year. During that year I worked around my child care commitments (eg I’d get a babysitter so we could go out for dinner, he’d come over to see me after the children were in bed, we spent my free weekends together etc). It took some planning and organisation but I wanted to see him so made sure I did. My point is: where there is a will there is a way. In my opinion If a divorced parent is using their childcare responsibilities as a reason to be physically and emotionally distant, it indicates that they are not emotionally willing and ready to date seriously. The fact that he isn’t all over you trying to have sex with you also suggests that he’s not ready yet. Divorce is very hard. I don’t think a year is long enough for emotional recovery where divorce is concerned. Only you can decide if you’re happy to continue at this snails pace and all that it entails. I think the gift thing is how it is, simply because it just hasn’t occurred him. Goes back to his emotional unavailability in my opinion. 7
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 Anyone dating has to show some interest. Here, there is very little coming from his end. I see no point in "the talk" as he is a grown adult, he is not putting in more effort as frankly he doesn't want to. Yes, if you bring up the subject he may up his game for a little while but he will soon regress as that is not the real him. No sex is a bad sign, I see no good reason for no sex, whether he is not over his ex, has a porn addiction, is not into you, has someone else, has a medical problem or whatever... NONE of it is good without explanation, in a guy you have supposedly been dating for 16 weeks... 4
The Outlaw Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 Just casually bring up 'the talk' the next time you speak to him face to face to see how he reacts. And despite how I feel about Christmas, it's still very much the thought that counts.
preraph Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 I pretty much agree that when there is a need only on one end to have "the talk," the talk is usually going to just end things rather than make the person you're talking to change. You have to be clear about your own requirements and what you must have and then you have to just watch what his actions are and see if they are meeting your requirements. Often actions don't even match what they're saying because guys know how to lie to keep sex on the table. So instead of cornering him, I agree with Lotsgoingon up there about is it meeting your needs now. Because people are on their BEST behavior earliest in the relationship while they're somewhat motivated to win you or get sex or whatever their motivation is. If it's not good now, it's not getting better. Basically telling someone new you need something they're not volunteering is less a relationship negotiation and more what to tell them when you are breaking up. 1
FMW Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I'm not a big fan of "talks", but Mortens is "paranoid" as she said, and if she's not happy with the way things are, instead of getting further confused then at least some casual chat is not out of order. Personally I think it's likely he's interested in Mortens and wants to keep seeing her, but isn't ready for a full blown relationship yet. He doesn't want to lead her on or confuse her (or himself) with sex, so he's not going there. We see lots of posts here from women who think that sex means the guy is committed and then the woman wonders what happened when it becomes clear he's not. Morten's guy is still navigating the changes of divorced life and it seems that he may be finding it a little overwhelming. He needs to be on an even keel in his own life before actively pulling someone else into it. So if she asks I'm guessing he's going to say he's just not ready for something too serious right now. If she's ok seeing where things go and giving it a little time, then she just needs to keep her expectations in check and not get too deeply invested emotionally in him yet. But if she needs/wants to get moving along now, then she's of course perfectly within her rights to ask for more and then stop seeing him if she doesn't like his response. Personally I'm hoping she gives it some time. Making solid connections with worthy men isn't something that seems to have been working out well for her in the recent past, so I don't want her to discard this out of impatience or insecurity. Managing her expectations is really important. But if she needs to know now and doesn't want to waste time on waiting for him to be ready, I completely understand that. Edited December 21, 2019 by Finding my way 7
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 We are all assuming the "poor guy" is not ready, but for all we know he may be like many newly divorced men and is just playing the field with MO being a low priority back up. He didn't stay the night as he had a hot date lined up elsewhere or "Christmas shopping" = someone more interesting was free... Even if parenting and fighting with the ex is taking up all of his time, is this really the right relationship for MO? Does a 50:50 parent really want a partner with NO experience of being married nor of bringing up small kids? 3 1
dramallama Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: No sex is a bad sign, I see no good reason for no sex, whether he is not over his ex, has a porn addiction, is not into you, has someone else, has a medical problem or whatever... NONE of it is good without explanation, in a guy you have supposedly been dating for 16 weeks... I have to agree with this bit. Whilst I said I was in a similar boat to the OP timewise, I couldn't imagine being almost 4 months in and not having had sex yet - there's taking it slow, and then there's have you got a pulse.... 4
preraph Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 one thing I can tell you from experience dating a couple of guys who were separated on their way to getting a divorced and going through a divorce is that they can't handle any more drama with a second woman while they're still going through the drama with the first one. That's just one of the many reasons why it's hard to date someone who's not an entangled from a previous relationship. 1
Author mortensorchid Posted December 21, 2019 Author Posted December 21, 2019 I think I will just back off until he contacts me again. It's not a good time being with the holidays and my sister's surgery coming up. 9
chillii Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, smackie9 said: Sounds to me this is more of a friendship rather than anything romantic BUT I have a feeling he is holding back all because of his ex and the kids. He is uncertain, worried what effect it would have with his relationship with them. It's like he is restricting himself to avoid anything going wrong or disrupting the status quo . And ya guys are not comfortable talking about feelings or showing vulnerability. They would rather avoid it at all costs. This whole thing might be giving himself some anxiety which would explain the lack of confidence and not having your relationship go forward. Yep exactly what l was thinking., added to what preraph also said . The ex and kids , his whole sitch , it hasn't been long and op you couldn't imagine how big all this is for a dad. lt's huge, it's as huge and heart wrenching as it gets, it's fragile , it's as scary as all hell , because any wrong move can upset everything or piss off this ex and jeopardize him seeing his own kids or upset the kids even more than what they're already going through. And it hasn't been very long for him and them either , there are dozens of angles he'll be being very very very careful about regards ex and the kids and trying to be a dad like this and not rock boats, plus all kinds of guilt. So things and hold backs with you guys could well be just about all this stuff in his situation, or there might be more to it . Edited December 21, 2019 by chillii 1
nospam99 Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) a) You don't know what what stress factors and priorities he is having to deal with. Even if you have that experience, you don't know the details of his situation and he may not be as capable as you are. b) No sex? Plenty of good reasons for that. One possibility that pops up quickly is he may be careful about STDs (If MO has posted if this has been discussed, I've missed that detail), and reluctant to risk offending her by asking questions. Or even reluctant to expose MO to something 'icky' that he has. Edited December 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator removed derogatory remark 1
alphamale Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 2 hours ago, preraph said: one thing I can tell you from experience dating a couple of guys who were separated on their way to getting a divorced and going through a divorce is that they can't handle any more drama with a second woman while they're still going through the drama with the first one. ... indeed preraph, some men just can't multi-task like women do 2
preraph Posted December 21, 2019 Posted December 21, 2019 You can see where it would be overwhelming. The new woman theoretically is well within her rights to make inquiries and demand what she normally would demand from the relationship, BUT a guy in the middle of going through what is always a contentious and upsetting divorce doesn't have the desire nor capacity to take on a second set of problems and demands and obligations, so realistically, you should know that going in. And that's why usually once the first one is final, they aren't even ready to jump back into the frying pan and also just want to be free for awhile. So he sounds like an okay guy who is not giving Mort any reason to expect any type of promise or commitment or any tangible expectations of a deeper relationship, and that is likely why he's not having sex with her. It's either that or he's trying to get back with his wife and doesn't feel right doing it. Either way, nice enough guy. He's just still got his kettle on the front burner of the stove and like Alpha says, not wanting to multitask.
Caauug Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 7 hours ago, elaine567 said: No sex is a bad sign, I see no good reason for no sex, whether he is not over his ex, has a porn addiction, is not into you, has someone else, has a medical problem or whatever... He's not deeply religious is he? Some Bible thumpers may abstain from sex outside of marriage. I would hate for him to lower his values and ditch is morals and throw away his faith because "I see no good reason for no sex". I think Mort needs to have that talk.....
Author mortensorchid Posted December 22, 2019 Author Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Caauug said: He's not deeply religious is he? Some Bible thumpers may abstain from sex outside of marriage. I would hate for him to lower his values and ditch is morals and throw away his faith because "I see no good reason for no sex". I think Mort needs to have that talk..... He's not religious who is not wanting sex because of his religious beliefs. We had somewhat of a talk about religion a while back, I asked if he goes to church himself or if he does since his kids were born (lots of people say that when they have kids that they should bring in their faith to it for the kids to have foundations). He came over a few weeks ago and I asked when he would get his kids back the next day (Sunday). He said they would be back in the early evening. I said "You could stay over if you like", he said no not just yet. I left it at that. But I will back off and let things be for now. Once Christmas is over with, it will be another story. 5
Robert Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) Let's make sure that the posts address the thread starters issue rather than attack another poster's opinion. On LoveShack we all each enjoy the ability to be able to voice our opinion and not be attacked for it. Healthy debate doesn't include personal attacks and only attacks the points the poster was making rather than the person, thanks Edited December 22, 2019 by Robert 2
nospam99 Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) As a father who co-parented multiple teens for several years while separated and negotiating the divorce, I have total empathy for what he's going through and I hope that MO does not give up on the relationship because of any advice offered in this topic. Edited December 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator We'll let it stand here for now, derogatory parts removed 2
Author mortensorchid Posted December 22, 2019 Author Posted December 22, 2019 3 hours ago, nospam99 said: As a father who co-parented multiple teens for several years while separated and negotiating the divorce, I have total empathy for what he's going through and I hope that MO does not give up on the relationship because of any advice offered in this topic. I am keeping this in mind with his circumstances, this is anything but easy for anyone under any circumstances. And I will not give up on it unless he actually says he's not ready. But for this week I will back off and just let it be for now because of the stress of the holiday season and my own circumstances. 4
lana-banana Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) I agree that when you realize you need to have The Talk, it almost always means things aren't going to work out. If you have to have a serious conversation about your needs and expectations before you even have a serious relationship, the odds are not good. It's not clear to me this guy would agree you're "sort of an item", especially since this started in September and you still haven't had sex. Honestly, I wouldn't get him anything either. Bake those cookies, open a bottle of wine, and treat yourself to a Lifetime marathon of women getting revenge. Edited December 22, 2019 by lana-banana 3
Blind-Sided Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 Mo... sorry. I know this isn't the time of the year... and I know you are having family issues... but as a newly divorced dad... I have to say, he's just not into you other than a friend to hand with. There's really no reason to have "The talk" with him. He has clearly stated his point. No sex, not going to a party as your partner, No gift.... he's not interested in you as a partner. Sorry. 6
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 44 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said: he's not interested in you as a partner. Sorry. I hope you're wrong because I want MO to find love, but it does sound like this :(. And, if it's first relationship after divorce he may just be really rusty about breaking up, hence stringing MO along :(. 1
PinkFlamingo Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 5:17 AM, mortensorchid said: We've been sort of an item since September when we reconnected. It's also a concern as we haven't had sex yet. We kissed and there was some heavy petting but nothing beyond that. Should we have The Talk soon? I don't think I am good at these things but I want to practice good communication because that's the key to everything. Paranoid now... In my experience, most guys want to get physical sooner rather than later and your guy not doing anything since September is very weird. And I agree with one of the posters, not having any small gift for you points to a reluctance to raise expectations about the relationship you two have. He could have said that he would invite you to your favorite restaurant or spa or whatever, there are always ways to get out of surprise gift situation without looking like an ass, that is, if one wants to.
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