New here. but not new as an Other Woman - partner separating

January 6, 2020

1 hour ago, Prudence V said:

they *want* to, and are choosing to invest in their R with you rather than their M because that is what they prefer right now.

This sounds like an excuse. "If it wasn't me, it would be someone else". A burglar can steal a house and think "well they left the window open, if it wasn't me stealing it would be someone else". It doesn't work this way. It is STILL you. And YOU will be the one responsible, much, less or lesser, it doesn't matter. I am not trying to make the betraying spouse innocent, he or she is the most responsible for betraying their spouse. But you will be there to help them commit the "crime".

January 6, 2020

12 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Don't get me wrong, you have a good point and the ethical thing to do is certainly to either fix the marriage or end it before moving on. But people often stick around, even if very unhappy, until a chance for at least some happiness appears in the form of OW. Sometime "I'm miserable/she's horrible" isn't actually a lie.

There are people that stick around in unhappy marriages because they do not want to be alone. That seems completely weak and pathetic. I do not understand how that can be attractive to any woman.

January 6, 2020

22 hours ago, EEK said:

At that time in my life, 14 years ago, everything was chaotic. Married men were easy. I had several regular married men. Single men saw me as broken and something they could fix. Single men wanted to "date".

I don't know where you live but MM are not the only men who will gladly have sex with you all day long without a commitment or dating you. You can get plenty of that from single men from the beginning of time. This set up you wanted is pretty much the holy grail to a lot of single men.

January 6, 2020

On 1/3/2020 at 10:12 AM, EEK said:

So since this is my first time going through the separation etc... I'm just looking for suggestions and advice on how I should best move forward.

As a reminder, this thread is about a member who's evidently been an OW for a long time and needs suggestions and advice as their married partner goes through separation and divorce. Please focus on the thread starter and their relationship and the assistance they requested. Thanks!

January 6, 2020

OP sounds like you have been through a lot and come a long way but unfortunately I think that returning to this affair a couple of years ago was a step backwards for you. Finding yourself single yet again you looked for comfort and safety in the MM rather than facing life alone and single and you took several steps backwards. How will you feel if this new development doesn't result in the MM leaving his marriage? Will you continue the affair?

Some people cheat on one person but never cheat again but serial cheats are a different breed altogether. At worst they simply don't ever want to be monogamous and will never be monogamous to any one person no matter how wonderful that person is. At best they have turned cheating into a unhealthy coping mechanism and need some serious counseling to learn better patterns. You say the MMs marriage is toxic. That's because it contains two toxic people and that toxicity won't just magically end with the marriage. They will both just take their toxins to new people unless they spend a couple of years getting therapy.

For your own well being and mental health I think you should step back and take care of yourself. Maybe see a counselor yourself to help you stay grounded and stable. Anything can still happen and divorcing men are not good relationship prospects even in the absence of an affair. They are just to emotionally unstable and it's never a good idea to let yourself become their crutch. When people heal they don't need their crutch anymore.

January 6, 2020

How best to support him? Don't support him. Seriously. He needs to learn to emotionally stand on his own 2 feet, instead of distracting himself with a mistress/girlfriend. He needs to learn to be honest with his feelings. You "supporting" him and being a soft landing place will only enable his delayed emotional development. So pull back. Tell him why.

Honestly, why would YOU want such a man? This guy needs some serious emotional growth before he'll make a healthy partner. Don't get involved with him unless/until he does that hard work.

January 6, 2020

5 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

There are people that stick around in unhappy marriages because they do not want to be alone. That seems completely weak and pathetic. I do not understand how that can be attractive to any woman.

If you're looking for an answer to that riddle, I think there are actually lots of ways to be attractive to a woman. Superficial face features and body, personality, wealth or power, simply giving them lots of attention, etc. So other factors may override that one negative (and any others, no one's perfect after all). Clearly in the case of a LT affair like OP's (or really any affair) there is sufficient attraction there.

January 6, 2020

On 1/5/2020 at 10:15 PM, EEK said:

I don't expect a complete stranger to understand something about a person they've never actually met. But his daughter and him have a relationship like none I've seen. Being a dad has been his whole purpose for living for a very long time. He poured his heart and soul into raising his daughter. She is his first priority. They are extremely close.

Soooo, looks like your theory is wrong. Sorry about that.

Maybe, maybe not. There is a school of thought that children will actually 'reject' the safe parent because they know they can always rely on them so they prioritise the unsafe parent to try and maintain the relationship.

Your answer indicates you have first hand experience of seeing them together. If so it is extremely inappropriate.

January 7, 2020

5 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If you're looking for an answer to that riddle, I think there are actually lots of ways to be attractive to a woman. Superficial face features and body, personality, wealth or power, simply giving them lots of attention, etc. So other factors may override that one negative (and any others, no one's perfect after all). Clearly in the case of a LT affair like OP's (or really any affair) there is sufficient attraction there.

I could be wrong but I think SWS is meaning that how could sticking around in an unhappy marriage be an attractive prospect to any woman...

Edited January 7, 2020 by elaine567

January 7, 2020

Perhaps you're right. I thought she meant the MM was unattractive by virtue of staying in the marriage instead of toughing out a separation. I suppose SWS can clarify if she wishes.

January 7, 2020

On 1/5/2020 at 11:50 AM, SummerDreams said:

I'm not trying to shame anyone or make them feel bad, but when you make the decision to be the third person in the relationship you do have a responsibility for ruining this marriage. Don't you feel it's 50-50? You want 30-70? 20-80? It still is YOU and not someone else. It still is YOUR decision and not someone else's. It is about not doing to someone something you don't want others to do to you. It's that simple to me.

Feelings won't be hurt if people are honest about their intentions to people they sleep with.

I disagree with the assessment that the OW ruined the marriage. While it's true that the OW may be an interloper, distraction, not morally proper, etc., you are giving the OW way too much power. First off, there are pre-existing cracks in the marriage if there's an OW. I know of no marriage that is at its best and all of a sudden an affair starts. Secondly, the MM is not leaving the marriage for the sake of OW (exit affairs excepted). Thirdly, OW are often a distraction and source of validation when MM fights with BS. I could go on, but that's a start. The OW is virtually powerless to control the relationship between MM & BS; an OW could only hope to influence it by placating MM. Sometimes that backfires, and props the marriage up in cases where MM seeks validation from OW (like when he and BS argue). That's because MM avoids the pain/marital issues and addressing them with BS while seeking validation from OW. If forced to confront the issues, the marriage would run its natural course (whichever direction it would go).

January 7, 2020

To answer OP's original question, I agree with 100% of what Mark said.

January 7, 2020

21 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

There are people that stick around in unhappy marriages because they do not want to be alone. That seems completely weak and pathetic. I do not understand how that can be attractive to any woman.

There are many reasons people stick around in unhappy marriages, and many ways to understand (or rationalise) why someone else might - some of which (e.g. “to spare the kids a broken home”) may appear more attractive than others.

In the OP’s case, it seems that prioritising his daughter’s wellbeing was indeed one of the OP’s MM’s motivators for sticking it out so long, and OP seems to commend the R between MM and his daughter, so seems onside with his motivation for sticking it out rather than considering him “weak and pathetic”.

January 7, 2020

On 1/3/2020 at 6:12 PM, EEK said:

So since this is my first time going through the separation etc... I'm just looking for suggestions and advice on how I should best move forward.

You consider him your “best friend”. How would you support any other friend going through a marital breakup?

January 7, 2020

27 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

You consider him your “best friend”. How would you support any other friend going through a marital breakup?

It is slightly different because there is a conflict of interests.
A friend can be unbiased as it rarely matters greatly to her whether the friend ultimately divorces or not, whatever she feels will make her friend happiest is fine.
She can advocate for or against divorcing depending on where she feels support is best needed.
Here the OP is not just a friend.
She cannot be the "voice of reason" as she is biased. It is in her best interests that he stay separated leading to divorce.
Her support and advice is obviously going to be seen by him as biased too and that may be a source of joy or annoyance depending on where his head is at, at the time.
She as his OW/potential gf cannot be expected to just listen whilst he persuades himself to go back home, or listen whilst he extols the virtues of his wife, or provide wonderful support whilst he grieves the loss of his marriage...
It is an "awkward" and uncomfortable position to be in.

January 7, 2020

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

It is slightly different because there is a conflict of interests.
A friend can be unbiased as it rarely matters greatly to her whether the friend ultimately divorces or not, whatever she feels will make her friend happiest is fine.
She can advocate for or against divorcing depending on where she feels support is best needed.
Here the OP is not just a friend.
She cannot be the "voice of reason" as she is biased. It is in her best interests that he stay separated leading to divorce.
Her support and advice is obviously going to be seen by him as biased too and that may be a source of joy or annoyance depending on where his head is at, at the time.
She as his OW/potential gf cannot be expected to just listen whilst he persuades himself to go back home, or listen whilst he extols the virtues of his wife, or provide wonderful support whilst he grieves the loss of his marriage...
It is an "awkward" and uncomfortable position to be in.

It is awkward and uncomfortable. I try and stay as neutral as possible. I've never said not one bad thing about his wife - ever and I don't plan to start. No matter how ugly it gets between them.

I'm really just following his lead on what he can and can not take. He's pretty sad right now and feels like even though there was no catalyst to her leaving (such as her discovering his affair with me) it's still his fault because he wasn't a better husband to her. He's questioning whether he was ACTUALLY as miserable as he thought he was. I know it's easy to romanticize the past but a good day in their marriage was when neither of them spoke to the other. They once went 3 whole weeks without saying a single word to the other. I couldn't imagine being in a relationship like that.

He's mentioned suicide a couple times. I know he doesn't handle change well. Never has. I don't think he's suicidal, especially while his daughter is still living under the same roof. But I know he's sad and feeling like a failure right now.

I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for him. Just giving an update....

January 7, 2020

She just decided to leave?

January 7, 2020

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

She just decided to leave?

Yep... It wasn't until after she left that he started going through things and discovered the evidence that she had several past EMR's. He didn't find anything supporting a current AP for her but I have my own opinion about that.

January 9, 2020

On 1/7/2020 at 12:43 PM, elaine567 said:

It is slightly different because there is a conflict of interests.

Not necessarily an conflict of interests, no. The OW/GF is certainly an interested party, but the interests can be aligned, or not aligned but not in conflict. Conflicting interests is only one possibility, and an unusual one as it would imply that the MM was evicted from the M against their will and wants back in it - which in most cases is not what the OW wants.

In most cases, the MM is either confused and adjusting to the end of the M (not aligned, but not in conflict) or is relieved at the end of the M and has no interest in going back (interests aligned). This isn’t much different to any other friend splitting up - particularly where the couple were both friends with the friend and the friend’s interests / loyalties may not lie simplistically with one or the other.

Most of us have supported friends through breakups which were complex, where sometimes we didn’t agree with the choices our friends made, but were nonetheless able to support them even if we felt our own interests were threatened, or compromised, or whatever. Being a friend allows you to do that - to step outside of your own interests and consider theirs. It’s called empathy.

The difficulty in that, or this, kind of R is maintaining your own boundaries, and being supportive, without being too directive, so that both people come out the other end feeling respected. It’s a difficult, but essential, balance to maintain, and if you don’t feel able to maintain that balance you need to step back.

January 9, 2020

I don't think he genuinely is ready to divorce his wife, OP.

He thought he was until he realized she'd been cheating on him, too. Now that the tables have turned, he is realizing how much he doesn't want her out of his life. That doesn't bode well for a future between you two.

My guess is that this is the beginning of the definitive end for you and him.

January 9, 2020

Like I said, It's all good for the goose until the gander does it. Then all hell breaks loose. It's fine for him but he doesn't want another man touching his property.

January 9, 2020

On 1/3/2020 at 2:53 PM, EEK said:

He's had a few affairs over the years. At least 2 others that I know of. The last one being about 8 years ago. He has left for them and always went back to raise his daughter. She's grown now and I know them reconciling is a small possibility but it is doubtful.

That sounds like a weird relationship. What a mess!

January 9, 2020

58 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

That sounds like a weird relationship. What a mess!

I wouldn't say "weird" but yes it is a mess. Then again most separations are.

3 hours ago, stillafool said:

Like I said, It's all good for the goose until the gander does it. Then all hell breaks loose. It's fine for him but he doesn't want another man touching his property.

He's not upset about the affairs she had. He actually hasn't mentioned it since the night he discovered it. He said he confronted her about it, she shrugged it off and he dropped it.

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I don't think he genuinely is ready to divorce his wife, OP.

He thought he was until he realized she'd been cheating on him, too. Now that the tables have turned, he is realizing how much he doesn't want her out of his life. That doesn't bode well for a future between you two.

My guess is that this is the beginning of the definitive end for you and him.

I am definitely aware that is a possibility. Though he assures me there is no chance of them reconciling. I almost, (but didn't) remind him that he thought the same thing the last time they split when his affair was discovered 8 years or so ago and he ultimately went back home.

4 hours ago, Prudence V said:

One person cannot do that on their own. If the other spouse isn’t pulling their weight, one person cannot magic the marriage better. Some parents discover this to their frustration, yet their wanting to be a good parent and not “break up the home” (or not before they consider the child old enough) means they’re trapped in that unhappy marriage. Yet they also need to survive, and so some seek an outside source of love / affirmation / whatever, to help them last within the unsatisfactory situation until the child is old enough.

I’m no fan of “staying for the kids”, but I do understand the reasoning of some who do it.

A few years ago the daughter actually sat him down and told him she knew how unhappy he was but that she wasn't ready for him to leave. He reminded her of the promise he made the last time he went back to his wife and that was that he would never leave again until she (the daughter) was ready for him to leave. The marriage never got better and he stayed in a miserable and unhealthy relationship because it was what his little girl asked him to do. Wild lions couldn't drag him away.

MM's wife left him, the home, and the daughter. Not many women do that, so it tells me just how unhappy SHE was with the situation as well.

I don't really have an update on the situation as I've taken a step back these last few days. And it seems as though he's taken a moment to digest everything as well.

January 9, 2020

So he is I guess at home, where has she gone to?

January 9, 2020

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So he is I guess at home, where has she gone to?

My understanding is that she's staying with a relative of hers.

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