Wife ask to be back after 18 months.

[usa1ah]

On 1/4/2020 at 10:13 AM, elaine567 said:

Do they not already have enough to deal with without adding to the complications? If they are to truly reconcile then tit for tat will not help the situation one little bit.
 

Well that depends on many factors really. Some find dating in their 60s fairly easy, others find it impossible.
Is the OP a "desirable" guy? if not he will struggle. The fact he finds no woman attractive now, could be a big barrier... Emotionally unavailable, bitter, with trust issues is not an attractive prospect to most. He needs to talk it all out in individual therapy.
Also he  brings up a valid point, he KNOWS his wife's baggage, he may find other women are not "better" or may even be "worse" than his wife... the devil you know...
There is no big box of "lovely" uncomplicated women out there just waiting for him to pick from.
It is all very well for us to sit and pontificate and say "Stay away from her", but it is not us who may be sitting alone in an apartment for the next few decades.
Older women often seem to do fine living alone, men not so much...

I don’t think OP said anything about letting the cheating pos back home. She has been gone for 18 months. There is no marriage any longer. 
 

What would going out with someone else hurt?

Edited January 6, 2020 by usa1ah

[elaine567]

7 hours ago, usa1ah said:

I don’t think OP said anything about letting the cheating pos back home. She has been gone for 18 months. There is no marriage any longer. 

That is the whole point of his post asking us whether he lets his wife back in... 

[usa1ah]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

That is the whole point of his post asking us whether he lets his wife back in... 

Then she refused to apologize for cheating on him.She basically said F you I’m not apologizing. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by usa1ah

[usa1ah]

Do not let your unapologetic cheating wife back in the home. The only reason she wants to come back is because she cannot find somebody to support her cheating ways. 
 

She can still make your life a living hell if you let her back in

[michzz]

Um, no, hell no!

Be free of this unremorseful cheater.

Even if you never have another woman again.

I suspect though that you would if you move on.

You deserve better than what she offers.

Yuck!

Edited January 10, 2020 by michzz

[aliveagain]

So what are you getting back? How can you forgive someone without knowing what it is your forgiving? The onus is on her to prove to you she is honest and safe otherwise why would you want to be with someone you can't trust? Give her a list of what you need in order for reconciliation, a detailed timeline of her affair and passing a polygraph would be at the top of my list. Think about what you really want, one way or another you eventually have to deal with her, reconciliation or divorce. Your still married to her and unless you have a strong separation agreement in place your still on the hook for her financially. Have you talked to a lawyer? 

[jolehno]

19 hours ago, aliveagain said:

So what are you getting back? How can you forgive someone without knowing what it is your forgiving? The onus is on her to prove to you she is honest and safe otherwise why would you want to be with someone you can't trust? Give her a list of what you need in order for reconciliation, a detailed timeline of her affair 

 

Update. Well, for starters  I guess I have not give enough info. I am a healthy, normal and average looking guy who probably still can get some lady if I put myself into it, I am financially stable, and after 18 months, being the first 6 pure hell, I can safely say that the pain and anger has somewhat subsided. Not that it's all forgotten, but at least, it is not an every hour  killing pain.

On the other side, even that she lost her 20 year long business, she has found a job and has regained some much needed weight and looks more like her old self,  relaxed and motherly. She has never ask for divorce, money or splitting assets.  The day when I confronted her with undeniable evidence, she angrily denied everything while  accused me of the very same things she was doing.  But at the same time, her actions were to put her personal belongings in trash bags and leave within an hour, totally broken and defeated.  

So, last night she came to dinner invited by our sons. I fixed something special for the first family dinner in over two years and even that she was at first,  somewhat ashamed or fearful to come into the house, after a while, since me and sons acted as nothing ever happened, we all had wonderful night. We ate, laughed and talked. At the end, I started to clean up a bit and she immediately went to wash the dishes and  as her old, pre affair self, started to clean and put everything in its place. It was like going back in time and nothing ever had happened. At one moment she was so much into the cleaning and tidying up, that we were joking that if there was something misplaced, this was after all a three bachelors house!   Finally she left at midnight and when goodbye time came, she was unsure of what to do,  finally gave me a small kiss with great sorrow in her eyes.  

During all this time, we never talked about past or future, just enjoyed ourselves but I know that was not a real life situation, so as AliveAgain said, if she comes back,  What I am getting back?

All what you listed would be my wishlist, my ideal starter point. I know that for her, to leave the house 18 months ago without resistance or demands, was like accepting her wrong. And coming back asking to be accepted but without accepting anything, it's in her mind, her way to say I am sorry. For me it's not enough, but how can I ask her to be truthful without making her feeling humiliated?  How do you make her understand that it is not shaming her what I want but regain trust and confidence that her wrong ways are left behind?

Is not accepting have been f#*ked by other man a sign of shame, of knowing the great wrong she done or  just pure and simple entitlement?

How do you get into the mind of a person that changes personality back and forth, one that for 20 plus years was the perfect wife and suddenly morphed into a depressed cheating woman that didn't even care for her children and then again,   year and a half later, has seemingly  regained her senses but finds herself unable to accept her wrongdoings ??  Why do people do this? 

[schlumpy]

You are never going to have an answer if you haven't got one by now. You certainly won't get one by allowing her to return without consequences that you recognize as being significant and life changing.

Then you have to consider if this happened once for no reason then it can happen again. The risk is high. Do you want a repeat of that first six months?

Hire some domestic help and do some casual dating if you feel a need female company. Dinner and polite conversation could carry you over. I think you will find that your wife is nothing special except in your own mind.

And tell your sons to stop trying to get you two back together. It's amazingly selfish of them.

[mark clemson]

9 hours ago, jolehno said:

How do you get into the mind of a person that changes personality back and forth, one that for 20 plus years was the perfect wife and suddenly morphed into a depressed cheating woman that didn't even care for her children and then again,   year and a half later, has seemingly  regained her senses but finds herself unable to accept her wrongdoings ??

Since she won't communicate, you're left to wonder. What may have happened here is she developed feelings for this other man and "caved" and acted on them. When you had your Dday she was probably guilty about destroying her family, BUT: 

What did she do while living at her mothers? Did she "test drive" the OM (and it didn't work out and now viola she's back)? Or was she in guilty isolation trying to sort herself out?

Maybe I missed it and I think others have alluded to it, but it seems like you're missing LARGE chunks of the story here. Completely unfair to you and probably information important to making a decision whether to reconcile or not. Possibly she fears that revealing too much would make you unwilling to reconcile. Maybe you need to make clear that reconciling/moving back in (if you and she want that) is contingent upon her opening up and providing the info.

[aliveagain]

Withholding the truth by omission is still a form of lying. Relationships without honesty always fail because they are built on foundation that has no trust. We all expect our partners to protect us when we are not with them to do it ourselves that's why it hurts so much to find out the person you love and trust blindly betrayed you by choosing someone else over you. Refusing to at least give you the truth after you bust them makes it almost impossible to overcome. You would think that someone that you share children with would want to help you heal so you can be the best father you can be for her children. Disappearing for two years is about the worst thing she could have done to you and your boys, real mother of the year material. Perhaps I missed it but why have you not divorced her, her actions speak clearly, she is the most important person in her life. All you know for sure right now is she is not a safe partner. If the opportunity arises she will act on it if she thinks she can get away with it. 

Have you decided what you want yet? I would have a very hard time being in any kind of relationship that had secrets in it, specially when the secrets are being withheld from me. You need to know if she continued with the other man after she left your family. Four things would be an absolute requirement for reconciliation if your able to live with the imbalance her cheating has brought into your lives, a timeline of all events, when, where, how many times, who knew. A polygraph to confirm you have all the truth so you have a solid base to start from. A post nuptial agreement in your favor if you divorce because of a new infidelity(how else do you trust someone that will betray a spouse and her children then disappear for a couple of years)? The final requirement would be independent counselling to find out why she gave herself the approval to betray you and your children so it never happens again. Did you inform the other betrayed spouse? How much do your children know? Have you lied to them or other family to protect her? Can you live with the sh*t sandwich she is forcing you to eat in order to be with her?  

   

[JS84]

 I think having that dinner was a mistake seeing where things stand between you. She still hasn't even admitted to what she's done and gets an attitude with you when you try to talk about it??? I get that you had a nice evening and a couple of tender moments but that means absolutely nothing. You shouldn't read anything into that until you see some concrete changes in her attitudes and behaviors. You should really go back to no contact. 

If her sons want to have dinner with her fine. That doesn't mean she should be allowed to play Happy Family Time with you as a participant unless she handles things considerably different first. Nor should you be willing to play. It just sends her the wrong message.

[Buckeye2]

On 1/2/2020 at 2:25 PM, jolehno said:

She has had plenty of time to do so and seamingly haven't done dating or anything in all this time.

You didn't know she had a lover when you were living together.   Are you better at detecting cheating when she no longer lives with you?  Do you still have a VAR in her car?

Edited January 20, 2020 by Buckeye2

[jolehno]

No, certainly not. but her attitude changed about a week after D'Day. She went back to be more like before, or so our sons say. The lover dropped her within hours after D'Day, as his wife must have forced to. I guess that for a person that never, ever has been treated harshly, she's a only child and extremely spoiled, to be asked to leave her house of 25 years with only her clothes and a few hours later be rejected by the lover and found herself inside her car with no place to go, probably wake her up and came back to reality. Shame is a very powerful emotion, and some people, like her, who I have never heard say I am sorry for anything. Admitting an affair must be extremely difficult. But even so. I will still be gentle but firm, there's no a chance for reconciliation, unless there is an apology.  Is still yet to see if that ever happens.

[usa1ah]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:08 AM, jolehno said:

 

Update. Well, for starters  I guess I have not give enough info. I am a healthy, normal and average looking guy who probably still can get some lady if I put myself into it, I am financially stable, and after 18 months, being the first 6 pure hell, I can safely say that the pain and anger has somewhat subsided. Not that it's all forgotten, but at least, it is not an every hour  killing pain.

On the other side, even that she lost her 20 year long business, she has found a job and has regained some much needed weight and looks more like her old self,  relaxed and motherly. She has never ask for divorce, money or splitting assets.  The day when I confronted her with undeniable evidence, she angrily denied everything while  accused me of the very same things she was doing.  But at the same time, her actions were to put her personal belongings in trash bags and leave within an hour, totally broken and defeated.  

So, last night she came to dinner invited by our sons. I fixed something special for the first family dinner in over two years and even that she was at first,  somewhat ashamed or fearful to come into the house, after a while, since me and sons acted as nothing ever happened, we all had wonderful night. We ate, laughed and talked. At the end, I started to clean up a bit and she immediately went to wash the dishes and  as her old, pre affair self, started to clean and put everything in its place. It was like going back in time and nothing ever had happened. At one moment she was so much into the cleaning and tidying up, that we were joking that if there was something misplaced, this was after all a three bachelors house!   Finally she left at midnight and when goodbye time came, she was unsure of what to do,  finally gave me a small kiss with great sorrow in her eyes.  

During all this time, we never talked about past or future, just enjoyed ourselves but I know that was not a real life situation, so as AliveAgain said, if she comes back,  What I am getting back?

All what you listed would be my wishlist, my ideal starter point. I know that for her, to leave the house 18 months ago without resistance or demands, was like accepting her wrong. And coming back asking to be accepted but without accepting anything, it's in her mind, her way to say I am sorry. For me it's not enough, but how can I ask her to be truthful without making her feeling humiliated?  How do you make her understand that it is not shaming her what I want but regain trust and confidence that her wrong ways are left behind?

Is not accepting have been f#*ked by other man a sign of shame, of knowing the great wrong she done or  just pure and simple entitlement?

How do you get into the mind of a person that changes personality back and forth, one that for 20 plus years was the perfect wife and suddenly morphed into a depressed cheating woman that didn't even care for her children and then again,   year and a half later, has seemingly  regained her senses but finds herself unable to accept her wrongdoings ??  Why do people do this? 

Because BS’s take them back. So what consequences do they really have. They had their fun and then come back. 

[JS84]

That's not shame. That's having no place to go. That's falling back onto Plan B because Plan A fell through. Guess who Plan B is?? What do you think would have happened if you kicked her out and her lover was waiting with open arms instead of a closed door to her face?? Do you think she would have come crawling back out of shame??

Also why are you giving her an opening for reconciliation when she hasn't even admitted cheating to you??? Why should she apologize for something she won't admit to doing to begin with?? You don't need to be gentle but firm. That's gotten you over 18 months of limbo. You need to start playing hardball.

You might want to think about getting an admission, remorse, contrition, and actions proving her remorse  before worrying about an apology. Especially if you want a legitimate apology. Hell I've apologized before without meaning it just to get people to shut up or what I wanted. It's not hard to do for some people. An apology isn't going to do anything for you at this point except maybe sooth your ego a bit.

Edited January 21, 2020 by JS84

[michzz]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:08 AM, jolehno said:

<snip>

During all this time, we never talked about past or future, just enjoyed ourselves but I know that was not a real life situation, so as AliveAgain said, if she comes back,  What I am getting back?

All what you listed would be my wishlist, my ideal starter point. I know that for her, to leave the house 18 months ago without resistance or demands, was like accepting her wrong. And coming back asking to be accepted but without accepting anything, it's in her mind, her way to say I am sorry. For me it's not enough, but how can I ask her to be truthful without making her feeling humiliated?  How do you make her understand that it is not shaming her what I want but regain trust and confidence that her wrong ways are left behind?

Is not accepting have been f#*ked by other man a sign of shame, of knowing the great wrong she done or  just pure and simple entitlement?

How do you get into the mind of a person that changes personality back and forth, one that for 20 plus years was the perfect wife and suddenly morphed into a depressed cheating woman that didn't even care for her children and then again,   year and a half later, has seemingly  regained her senses but finds herself unable to accept her wrongdoings ??  Why do people do this? 

You have to get out your mind the idea that her thought process is of the honorable woman you thought you married. She is not that woman.

That woman, if she ever existed, is a figment of your imagination--a fantasy of your own construct.

She is happy to put a dish rag to the plates and act all domestic for an evening. She's even happier to go screw someone else.

That she left in shame hardly matters.

You will never get back the comfort of your illusion of who she is.

Your best move is to keep moving on.
 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 1/1/2020 at 11:05 AM, jolehno said:

 

And now I don't know what to do.

 

This part boggles the mind.

 

Do the obvious.

[jolehno]

On 1/22/2020 at 1:31 PM, michzz said:

You have to get out your mind the idea that her thought process is of the honorable woman you thought you married. She is not that woman.

That woman, if she ever existed, is a figment of your imagination--a fantasy of your own construct.

She is happy to put a dish rag to the plates and act all domestic for an evening. She's even happier to go screw someone else.

That she left in shame hardly matters.

You will never get back the comfort of your illusion of who she is

It amazes me how easily we can sometimes trash people. I think that given the right conditions, we all are able to do terrible things.  I guess she is that woman I was married for 23 years and is also this other one, that fell for a passion in a moment of weakness and that now, acts as wounded animal, ready to run or bait at the slightest sign of menace.

I been digging on all this infidelity matters and there's a reason for everything. Do you really think that is just a coincidence that most cheaters talk, act and say almost the same things?  Could it be coincidence the  lying, anxiety, depression, and the age near menopause at which many woman fall into infidelity? I am not looking for excuses, as many, also wounded BS like me could say, I am looking for answers. For reasons. I don't think for one minute that my wife just got up one day and decided to go f#ck somebody else. There has to be a thought process, a motive, be that hormonal, affective, frustration or just pure and simple sexual pleasure. It doesn't matter, has to be there a reason to destroy her and hers family lives. And that is what I am looking for.

Here in the infidelity forum, I guess we all are wounded souls and many might think that an almost 50 year old woman with college aged children and a structured life cheats just for the pleasure of it, but when I see more pain than pleasure, being that for the impossibility of being with the lover or else, I don't care. I want to know more and try to understand whatever twisted way of thinking she might be in, and what ever I´ll find, I will try to share it. It Might help somebody else in this s***y situation.

[schlumpy]

I await with anticipation the findings of your research into the reasons for your wife's infidelity.

My only comment is that I think she did it because she could. Not a very satisfactory answer, but one I find aligns with human nature as I understand it.

Good luck.

[Confused48]

1 hour ago, jolehno said:

It amazes me how easily we can sometimes trash people. I think that given the right conditions, we all are able to do terrible things. 

 

It doesn't matter, has to be there a reason to destroy her and hers family lives. And that is what I am looking for.

 I will try to share it. It Might help somebody else in this s***y situation.

Yes, easy for us to trash when we all are one bad moment away from doing something regrettable. We would all do well to keep this in mind.

In this case though she did it. You did not. That is important. 

Reason to destroy her family? No. She never thought she would get caught. So her motivation could be very simple, very insignificant. To her there was no risk so why not do it? The obvious reason not to do it: it was wrong, immoral, regardless of whether she was caught or not. That reason did not occur to her or was not a compelling reason. That is who you are trying to make a life with. Someone with that kind of moral compass. No judgement from me about that decision. Just be aware. 

Please do continue to share. This is a terrible situation that many are in the midst of and are benefited by your willingness to share. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Confused48

[DKT3]

@Confused48 this is exactly it. There is no risk because they never think about being caught.

There are no reasonable answers as to why someone cheats. Plenty of excuses,  plenty of times when you hear excuses you think "I get it, i can understand why one would feel...." yet still no reasonable reason as to why

[Betrayed&Stayed]

18 hours ago, jolehno said:

I been digging on all this infidelity matters and there's a reason for everything. Do you really think that is just a coincidence that most cheaters talk, act and say almost the same things?  Could it be coincidence the  lying, anxiety, depression, and the age near menopause at which many woman fall into infidelity? I am not looking for excuses, as many, also wounded BS like me could say, I am looking for answers. For reasons. I don't think for one minute that my wife just got up one day and decided to go f#ck somebody else. There has to be a thought process, a motive, be that hormonal, affective, frustration or just pure and simple sexual pleasure. It doesn't matter, has to be there a reason to destroy her and hers family lives. And that is what I am looking for....

.... I want to know more and try to understand whatever twisted way of thinking she might be in, and what ever I´ll find, I will try to share it. It Might help somebody else in this s***y situation.

You can't find what you're looking for. To quote O' Brother Where Art Thou: “It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.”

You will drive yourself crazy trying to make sense of the affair. I spun my mind 24/7 on trying to figure out my wife's affair. I eventually gave up and concluded: she had an affair because she wanted to.

As far as reconciling. Reconciling under the best conditions is extremely difficult. Your wife has not done any work to correct the situation. "I'm sorry" is not going to cut it.

Lastly, even if you she moves back in your relationship will never be the same. You can't go back to "normal". There is no more "normal". A big part of the grieving process is grieving the old life, the old marriage, the old wife. It's all gone.

[jolehno]

The real problem might be me, as an engineer, I have, since childhood, always looked for reasons behind most things. Now, I am trying to figure out a non sense, an abnormal situation without a logic in it. Been reading the -Other Man, other woman- forum and it is an eye opener. This poor souls dive themselves into agony, restlessness and anxiety!  Many call the lover -My married man- ?? What are they thinking?  My? Can not they see he is others woman husband? They sleep daily in the same bed with another woman, his wife!!  and still wonder if they are having sex at home??!!  Such deeps of loonacy. Any way, in my case, I see shame, deep shame behind her not admitting to anything. If you have ever see a child eating the forbidden cookies while at the same time saying he has never touched them, then, you have seen my poor wife.

The point is that I really dont have it in me, the need to have her crawling back, asking for forgiveness. I just can't shame her more than what she already is. I somehow feel that we, she and I, are at different moments in the reconciliation process. I feel that sometime in the future, she will acknowledge her mistake, if only I relieve her from her paralyzing shame. Is it there any WW that have been in such predicament?

This forums are immensely valuable, so much more than a year worth of therapy. If it wasn't for what I had read in here, I probably wouldn't had set the VAR in her car or ask her to leave the moment I had proof,  which was the best thing to do believe me.  I pay attention to all what you say. And for that, I am immensely thankful.

 

[preraph]

Is it possible that she was talking to this guy or he was a friend, but she wasn't sleeping with him?  

[Marc878]

It’s clear she wants a rugsweep which means she could do it again.

change nothing, nothing changes.