DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 I written and rewritten this post a few times and have struggled to accurately describe the situation without giving too much away whilst still getting my questions across. The generic question is how to resolve trust issues after a partner has broken the trust? The problem is it’s more complicated than that so I’ve just decided to explain it all and have fingers crossed no-one I know is part of this group. I have a girlfriend although we call ourselves married. Essentially we live as a married couple. We were friends with benefits for a few years and have been exclusive for 5 (gf/bf for 3 years / "married" the last 2). She is bisexual and we have what works for us where she can see women on the side as long as I know all about it prior and have the right of refusal. There is a line from a song, “I believe trust is more important than monogamy” and we’ve used that as a basis for our relationship. To put it in perspective she has seen maybe 3 women over our time together with one being a long term girlfriend and I have never felt the need to see anyone. With that history described I’ll now explain the lost trust. A few months ago she attended an interstate party without me as I had to work. Basically she cheated with a woman. Now it’s not the sex that is the issue it’s the broken trust, but then it gets a whole lot worse. This happened at the party and her boyfriend was in the room to watch, which then ended up with between 6-10 others in there watching depending on who you ask. I guess the only saving grace is that the other girl’s boyfriend made sure no-one was filming. My girlfriend admitted all this to me as soon as she got home. I got all the excuses about being drunk and stoned etc. I supposed I have to give some credit at this point as she has not drip fed me at all. She told me everything that day and after talking to many people to find the truth there has not been a single thing she has left out. My brother suggests this is a good point and the start of the repair job. Now quite simply I no longer trust her. I hate the fact that when she’s out longer than she said she would be that I start questioning what’s going on. She has admitted fault and is doing what she can to regain my trust but I guess I’m still too angry to be receptive. So back to the question. What do we have to do to work this out? What must she do, what must I do? Can the trust ever be regained? We had such a special thing because we had trust and I want that back. I am still in love with her and so I want this to work.
K.K. Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile. I feel for you, but you kind of brought this on yourself by giving her free range to sleep with other women. (If you approve first... righhhh) That’s all noble and good (not really) but look at you now. She came home and told you the ‘truth’ because she sees you as a chump. She threw it right out there like “take that!” Who even knows how true it was. You probably got the half truth version no matter what you want to believe. You think not one out of ten people pulled out their phone to capture that appalling act of skank-ery? There’s no use to keep referring to yourselves as “married”. Unless you took the vows and signed the paper, you’re not married. (Lucky for you).You’re boyfriend/girlfriend that live together. 2 hours ago, DazzaMont said: A few months ago she attended an interstate party without me as I had to work. Basically she cheated with a woman. Now it’s not the sex that is the issue it’s the broken trust, but then it gets a whole lot worse. This happened at the party and her boyfriend was in the room to watch, which then ended up with between 6-10 others in there watching. I think you should reevaluate your life choices and ask yourself if this is what you want long term for a mate and/or mother of your future children. You keep talking about trust but I mean... come on... At this point, you can either forgive her or not. But who knows if you’ll ever really trust her again. Good luck. 4
Piddy Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) Without trust you have no relationship. However, you did allow her to be with other women so technically she didn't cheat, she just didn't ask first. You did have a semi open relationship, so it's tough. It's obviously up to you. If you really love her then maybe a second chance is warranted. But maybe I'm being a little bit sexist in my thinking. Somehow for me it would be worse if she had cheated with a man, but that's just me. I've never cheated on my wife and she has never cheated on me in 41 years. But to be honest if she ever had a fantasy of being with another women I could maybe agree to that (as long as I could watch ), but with another man the answer wouldn't just be no, but hell no. I agree with K.K. once the trust is gone, you'll always wonder if she's cheating on you again. Your worry free life with her is over. From here on out you'll be worrying when she's not with you. Edited January 1, 2020 by Piddy 2
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 If it was with a man we wouldn't be having this discussion. So are you saying that there is no way for her to regain my trust, if i want to stay I just have to accept that 100% trust is gone. That's a relationship killer.
Brennan72 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask "can I do better than this"? You aren't this woman's husband or lover, but you might be a provider and roommate who sleeps with her from time to time. The whole "trust more important than monogamy" is a false dichotomy, and doesn't fully explain relationships. Without commitment, focus, and dedication, there isn't going to be trust, and without monogamy, there is going to be very little of any of that. I've known several "polyamorous" couples (swingers, etc.) and they all talk a good game until everything comes crashing down in ugly and spectacular ways. It typical involves the guy allowing himself to be cucked and humiliated while his wife or gf runs wild. I know exactly what would happen if I opened up my marriage--I would end up falling in love with what originally looked like a side-project, and that would be it. And then we have the fact that she put on a sex show for a half dozen people, some of whom you might know. What kind of reputation does this woman have now? Are you comfortable with that? How does it reflect on you? harsh advice inbound: you need to grow up dude. This stuff sounds like fun when you are a young guy out to fulfill your porno fantasies, but it never goes anywhere good. You need to decide what YOU want out of life and a relationship (marriage, kids, fidelity, a life together, etc.) and go get it. You won't find anything good where you are right now. Edited January 1, 2020 by Brennan72 3
elaine567 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 She was oh so drunk and stoned, she remembers every little detail... Hmm... You have chosen badly. You chose to try to turn a bisexual fwb into a long term partner. Bad mistake. It has led you to a one sided open arrangement and now she has betrayed your trust by sleeping with a woman in full view of not only the woman's bf but in front of about 10 other people too... She now wants retrospective "permission"... You feel betrayed and used and a bit of a chump... You will continue to feel like that as long as you stay with this woman. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) Don't get it. Are you two "married" now? I guess it doesn't matter. Anyway, she drinks and uses drugs. I suspect you engage or accept such behaviour. So, as long as she does these things and uses them as excuses, she will continue to find ways to do what occurred. She did not demonstrate constraint and sound reasoning by drinking and taking drugs in the first place and any combination typically results in regretful behaviour or suspension of inhibition for behaviour desired in the first place. Frankly would not be involved with drug use or alcohol abuse, but for you, I would re-emphasize the agreement you two had before and talk about the substance abuse. Neither of you should be influenced as to encouraging such behaviour to occur again. Good luck. Edited January 1, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020
salparadise Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) Yea, this is the problem with limited non-monogamy or a one-sided partially open relationship. Where do you draw the lines, how do you make the rules, and how do you deal when things don't go exactly as set forth in the agreements? I think it's interesting that you're upset that she banged that woman without your permission, yet the fact that she did so with the room full of spectators doesn't seem to bother you. And since it happened once, even though she promised not to do so again, you don't feel in control anymore. Which translates to a trust issue. I realize that you are technically correct in that she broke a rule, but I don't see that as quite the egregious breach that you do. Because she generally is allowed, it's sort of like if your wife goes out and sees a new sofa, and buys it without calling you. My feeling is that you should quit relying on the illusion of control, and either roll with the open relationship, or not. But that's just my feeling and you are the one in the relationship with the bisexual, non-monogamous woman. Bottom line is that all she can do now is say she's sorry and won't do it again, and most of the regaining of trust part is on you. But if you're dead set on having and enforcing rules as a means of control, and that makes you feel okay... I'd probably add a few about sex as a spectator sport while you're at it. But that's just me. Edited January 1, 2020 by salparadise 5
Gr8fuln2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, salparadise said: Yea, this is the problem with limited non-monogamy or a one-sided partially open relationship. Where do you draw the lines, how do you make the rules, and how do you deal when things don't go exactly as set forth in the agreements? I think it's interesting that you're upset that she banged that woman without your permission, yet the fact that she did so with the room full of spectators doesn't seem to bother you. And since it happened once, even though she promised not to do so again, you don't feel in control anymore. Which translates to a trust issue. I realize that you are technically correct in that she broke a rule, but I don't see that as quite the egregious breach that you do. Because she generally is allowed, it's sort of like if your wife goes out and sees a new sofa, and buys it without calling you. My feeling is that you should quit relying on the illusion of control, and either roll with the open relationship, or not. But that's just my feeling and you are the one in the relationship with the bisexual, non-monogamous woman. Bottom line is that all she can do now is say she's sorry and won't do it again, and most of the regaining of trust part is on you. But if you're dead set on having and enforcing rules as a means of control, and that makes you feel okay... I'd probably add a few about sex as a spectator sport while you're at it. But that's just me. Nicely put. I would also like to add that this is the only encounter that he "knows" of. Responsible non-monogamy is often not so transparent all of the time. I am curious. Would the OP feel as generous if the event took place with another man instead of a woman? Is this relationship of non-monogamy gender restricted? Does the OP have his share of transparently acknowledged sex with other women? Sounds way too messy and undesirable really.
elaine567 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said: Nicely put. Would the OP feel as generous if the event took place with another man instead of a woman? Is this relationship of non-monogamy gender restricted? Does the OP have his share of transparently acknowledged sex with other women? Sounds way too messy and undesirable really. He already answered those questions. No, yes and No. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, elaine567 said: He already answered those questions. No, yes and No. Oops. Sorry. Missed that. 1
Calmandfocused Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 I haven’t read the replies so apologies if another poster has said this: I don’t think the broken trust is anything to do with the gf being bisexual or sleeping with a woman. I think it’s got everything to do with her parading herself in front of spectators, disrespecting herself and therefore disrespecting the Op by proxy. She’s the Ops girlfriend, she’s not a porn star. Yes I get it op. There’s a sleazy element to this that I’m sure you never agreed to. I don’t think this is irreparable but you may need a another conversation regarding your boundaries, and what you will/ will not accept in future. Good luck 1
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 6 hours ago, Brennan72 said: Without commitment, focus, and dedication, there isn't going to be trust I would argue that we have/had all that. Ignoring this recent event I would say that we were both committed, focused and dedicated to our relationship and building a future together. I don't agree that having a semi-open relationship precludes those things. 6 hours ago, Brennan72 said: What kind of reputation does this woman have now? Are you comfortable with that? How does it reflect on you? That is the issue I am struggling with. If she called me and asked could she sleep with that woman I would have said yes. If she asked could her boyfriend watch the answer would have been no. And I think it's pretty clear that people watching is just so far out of the question I'm not sure how the other womans somewhat sober boyfriend had the wits about him to stop people filming but willingly allowed them to watch.
Gr8fuln2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 I guess I am just old fashioned enough to say that I am confused about how your relationship was ever committed. You sleep with whomever you want and her, with whomever she wants (as long as it is a woman???). Transparent, perhaps, but committed??? Strange...
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 6 hours ago, elaine567 said: It has led you to a one sided open arrangement I'm sorry it read that way. You'd think after so many edits I would have picked up on it, proof reading is obviously not my forte. We are both allowed to see other people, just other women, I have just not felt the need as she gives me everything I need. I fully understand how I can not possibly do that for her. She has encouraged me a few times to pursue things when there has been a woman flirting with me at a party but as I just said I never have. We have had the occasional threesome though so she certainly is not expecting me to do nothing while she does, essentially cuckolding me.
schlumpy Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 To regain your trust she will have to willingly put herself on probation. That means being able track her either by phone or GPS device. You get all the passwords to her phone and any social media. She will have to willingly give you a call whenever something happens out of the routine. No more out on the town without your. This will go on until you feel that you can trust her again. I she balks or says can't you just get over it then you that will be your answer as to whether she can regain your trust. 2
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 6 hours ago, Gr8fuln2020 said: Anyway, she drinks and uses drugs. I suspect you engage or accept such behaviour. It's just marijuana. However you are right and we have spoken about a no alcohol/drug rule unless we're together moving forward.
Gr8fuln2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, DazzaMont said: It's just marijuana. However you are right and we have spoken about a no alcohol/drug rule unless we're together moving forward. At least, right? Otherwise this will inevitably happen again. People are not in full control when under the influence. But the act of using or being under the influence IS entirely voluntary and outside of addiction, is likely an act to help lower inhibition to do things that should be much more uncomfortable. Good luck.
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, schlumpy said: To regain your trust she will have to willingly put herself on probation. You are right and that is what we have done. I know all her passwords and her mine. We would both regularly leave our phones or facebook unlocked and the other could easily check or see if any dodgy messages were coming in. She has also started checking in as you suggested, it was her idea. She does seem to be trying but I guess I'm just not ready and maybe subconsciously what to punish her first.
Author DazzaMont Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Calmandfocused said: I don’t think this is irreparable but you may need a another conversation regarding your boundaries, and what you will/ will not accept in future. The boundaries were clear, they were just broken. They have been reinforced but as she acknowledges that she broke them there really was no need. The boundaries are clear she just needs to stick to them.
elaine567 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, DazzaMont said: We are both allowed to see other people, just other women, I have just not felt the need as she gives me everything I need. it is one sided in that you do not exercise your part of the arrangement. This often happens when one partner is not pressing for an open relationship. They agree to an open arrangement to keep the other "on side". One partner stays monogamous and the other gets to "fool around", the problem being that the one "fooling around" tends to push the boundaries as they tend to hold the cards. Here she is so certain of your commitment to her, she frankly doesn't care what you think. Your input is irrelevant to the situation. The power dynamic is thus skewed in her favour.
salparadise Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, DazzaMont said: She does seem to be trying but I guess I'm just not ready and maybe subconsciously what to punish her first. I wonder if it's more than failing to asking permission that you're subconsciously wanting to punish her for. Could the fact that you are faithful/monogamous and she's not be the cause of your feeings of anger/betrayal? Would you actually prefer a traditional, monogamous relationship? Is there a power imbalance? Do you subconsciously resent having to allow her to have dalliances as a condition of the relationship? 1
mark clemson Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 39 minutes ago, DazzaMont said: We have had the occasional threesome though so she certainly is not expecting me to do nothing while she does, essentially cuckolding me. Just noting - this isn't quite as one-sided as it sounds. Clearly she has at least a bit of an exhibitionist kink as well as being bi or this would never have happened. Also clear that she's attempting to do at least some of the correct things for reconciliation. Unfortunately reconciliation isn't always possible even if the wayward partner wants to do whatever it takes. I disagree with the suggestion that this isn't the only incident. While that's always possible, there's no REAL indication of that other than the known incident itself. She's being a lot more transparent than many cheaters. There is no right answer here - if you can't "find your trust for her" again, then of course you have every right to just end it. If it was me and I continued the relationship, I'd give her two strikes, not three, before she's out. I also wouldn't mention that to her so she didn't try to hide any more ONS's if she did have them. I would also have serious reservations about marrying this woman. While it's probably a thought "for later on" right now, if marriage is something you want this relationship might be a dead end unfortunately. Lots for you to think about here, DazzaMont. Be glad you're not married as it would make things so much more complicated if you decide you can't stay.
salparadise Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) This thing of having right of approval is hollow, beside the point, but you're hanging your hat on it. It doesn't change the power imbalance, and she doesn't actually have to ask. She can do as she pleases, and if she neglects to ask first... well, you might be upset but there are no consequences. You're not going to kick her to the curb and she knows it. She just proved it. At some point you're going to have to deal with the reality of this situation. You have no power. She indulges you by supporting the illusion. Except this time she didn't... and you don't know how to handle it. Edited January 2, 2020 by salparadise
CAPSLOCK BANDIT Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 People who do not respect boundaries have no place in an open relationship... Boundaries need to be respected even more so than a regular relationship when the dynamics are open... Just leave her and move on.
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