Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I met this guy through my friends. One of these friends is my best friend who has recently started a relationship. I was talking with this guy I met how my friend is now so focused in her relationship that she has forgotten that we used to be best friends and how I feel hurt and lonely because of it. He started to explain (more like mansplain) to me how she has right to be happy and how it is normal that priorities change and so on. I said I know but I still have right to feel how I feel and of course I am happy for her but would also love to see and talk to her. I miss my friend. He straight up refused to listen to my point of view, blamed me for not accepting my friends relationship, was answering mostly "ok" and so on. Eventually he said I have changed as a person and he don't want to continue this discussion with me anymore. I have a history of picking wrong types of men and now all my instincts are flashing red. I thought he is more inclusive, feminist, understanding and open for honest discussions. I know I over reacted on this discussion as well. But also was not expecting blame when I try to open up about something sensitive for me. I am used to people at least listening and saying something comforting than straight up blaming me for being delusional. Any thoughts?
basil67 Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) It sounds to me like you were trying to do a girly workshop of feelings with a bloke. Thing is, guys don't do that stuff - this is the job of our female friends. A guy will be more along the lines of 'it is what it is' and and help you get your head around it. And when we do workshop feelings with girlfriends, we tell them what they want to hear to reassure them even if we think they are a bit nuts. But with a guy, you're not going to get this kind of response. I would also suggest that him saying 'what she did is normal' was him trying to be comforting - he was making it clear that she didn't ditch you because of something you did. Edited December 30, 2019 by basil67 6
chillii Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Yep , think you misunderstood him on this at least. He said what he thinks but you didn't like it so he doesn't wanna go on and on about it or get into an argument so he just started saying ok.ok. Edited December 30, 2019 by chillii 2
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, chillii said: Yep , think you misunderstood him on this at least. He said what he thinks but you didn't like it so he doesn't wanna go on and on about it or get into an argument so he just started saying ok.ok. No, the argument started because he was just saying ok. Usually people say something else than ok when someone says they are sad. Edited December 30, 2019 by Fruitee
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 4 hours ago, basil67 said: It sounds to me like you were trying to do a girly workshop of feelings with a bloke. Thing is, guys don't do that stuff - this is the job of our female friends. A guy will be more along the lines of 'it is what it is' and and help you get your head around it. And when we do workshop feelings with girlfriends, we tell them what they want to hear to reassure them even if we think they are a bit nuts. But with a guy, you're not going to get this kind of response. I would also suggest that him saying 'what she did is normal' was him trying to be comforting - he was making it clear that she didn't ditch you because of something you did. Maybe. I have met guys who are able to listen and be empathic and then if needed rationalise things. But yeah good point about her ditching me and reasons behind it. Thanks for your comment. 1
chillii Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Fruitee said: No, the argument started because he was just saying ok. Usually people say something else than ok when someone says they are sad. Not how it reads but anyway, yeah l basically agree with basil
stillafool Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I have to agree with the guy. Your friend hasn't forgotten that you are her best friend it's just that she is trying to cultivate her relationship, is newly in love and enjoying herself. It would seem that you as her best friend should be over the hills happy for her and cheering her on rather than complaining that she has forgotten you. 3
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, stillafool said: I have to agree with the guy. Your friend hasn't forgotten that you are her best friend it's just that she is trying to cultivate her relationship, is newly in love and enjoying herself. It would seem that you as her best friend should be over the hills happy for her and cheering her on rather than complaining that she has forgotten you. Of course I am happy and excited for her. She deserves to be happy, to be loved and have a wonderful relationship. But I would assume it is also normal to miss a friend who I have known for 15 years, talked daily and met weekly. Now we meet maybe once in 3 months. It is difficult to be over the moon for someone who only talks to you when there is trouble in paradise and forgets you when things are fine. 1
introverted1 Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I can't tell what has you upset -- that your friend is engrossed in a new relationship and doesn't have as much time for you? Or that this new guy didn't appropriately (in your opinion) sympathize with your annoyance? Why on earth would you be talking to a guy you just met about your unhappiness with your friend? Even if she did make the introduction, this doesn't strike me as first date conversation. Maybe try approaching a new guy with a more light-hearted attitude and save the heavier stuff for later.
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, introverted1 said: I can't tell what has you upset -- that your friend is engrossed in a new relationship and doesn't have as much time for you? Or that this new guy didn't appropriately (in your opinion) sympathize with your annoyance? Why on earth would you be talking to a guy you just met about your unhappiness with your friend? Even if she did make the introduction, this doesn't strike me as first date conversation. Maybe try approaching a new guy with a more light-hearted attitude and save the heavier stuff for later. It was not 1st date. We have known each other for months now.
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 Anyway my friend broke up with her bf now, so no use for this discussion anymore. Thank you all for your comments. Have a nice New Year!
Mrin Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 In answering the title of your post: you're wrong here, he doesn't sound like a jerk. To be honest, you sound like you have a real victim complex thing going on. Not entirely sure how to address it but I suggest you do find a way to work on it. Otherwise people will find you exhausting eventually. 4
smackie9 Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 No guy wants to be around a negative Nelly and that you were. He's not a jerk, you got on his nerves. 1
Author Fruitee Posted December 30, 2019 Author Posted December 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, smackie9 said: No guy wants to be around a negative Nelly and that you were. He's not a jerk, you got on his nerves. I am sure you have only positive days in your life and never feel sad or any other negative feeling.
Lotsgoingon Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 Talking about your sadness on an early date is a terrible strategy, can't get a worse dating strategy. Thinking that a date should help you process sadness: terrible thinking, baffling thinking. You should no more expect a date to help you process sadness than you should expect a job interviewer to help you process pain. People don't wanna hear your problems. People need to know first that you are worth their taking time and effort and energy to care about your problems. This guy's job right now is to be critical of you and to look for red flags, signs of deeper problems that will emerge down the road. BTW: you did NOT share with him. Sharing would be to tell him that you are working on maintaining contact with friends as life changes and so on in a neutral to confident tone. What you did was dump a pile of manure on the table and then you apparently expected him to help you to clean it up. Your job is to process your own pain ... If you want someone to listen, then talk to a close friend, someone who has had a long and deep bond with you. On dates, you want to talk about what excites you in your life, what goals you have, what interests you have, what you like about your job ... hobbies, interests, passions, musical tastes, sense of humor, strengths ... interesting observations ... Those the topics of early dates ... And if you want someone to be interested in you, you show up showing that you can regulate your own feelings. This guy might be a jerk but this story doesn't show it. This shows you don't understand how to regulate friendship and closeness ... We don't turn to essentially strangers (which is what people are when we're beginning to date them) to help us resolve our life worries. Revamp your dating strategy. Process feelings with long-time friends and with yourself. 1
preraph Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I think it was the wrong conversation to try to have with this guy since he knows them. It may get back to them. Anyway, I don't think friends should totally abandon their loyal old friends just because they couple up, but some of them do, so now you know her just a little better than you used to and know she's fickle. I always worry when a friend starts having a bf and stops seeing her friends that her bf is trying to isolate her, which is one of the first things abuser/controllers do, but that's certainly not always the case. But I know for sure some guys ,a lot of them, actually, can make it such a problem for their gf or wife to see their friends and go do anything with them that they decide it's not worth the big fight and complications that ensue -- and when that happens, I really hate to see that going on because it is controlling. I think the only person to ask is your friend, though. If she's an old friend, ask her if this is her choice or if he gets his back up if she sees her friends or goes and does anything independently. If she's a relatively new friend, don't bother.
Versacehottie Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I apologize i haven't read all the replies only your initial post. I would say that you both need to work on better communication, ie you asking for what you want and need and requesting how you would like him to show you his empathy and him getting a bit more sensitive. Secondly, I think you need to lower your expectations a bit and have a little leeway. He may be insensitive in how he reacts toward you but I don't think he's required to take your position just because he is dating you/your boyfriend. I don't see anything in a feminist manifesto where a good boyfriend is required to agree with everything his girlfriend says and does. Lol, I'm being extreme but hopefully you get the point. He's not a bad boyfriend if he doesn't share your view. Actually, as insensitive as he may have delivered his point of view, he may be right that you are being too sensitive and needy about your best friend. Another thing is this misplaced and misdirected hurt/anger. Why not just say some of this is a direct way to the friend that it's about? I realize that can be hard but I think guys are more programmed to come up with solutions (or not) whereas women are inherently 1000 times more verbal and conditioned to discuss etc, not necessarily bottom line things. I'm not describing it well but it's genetic and conditioned by gender. I would say he has somewhat of a point that friendships evolve and change--also if you want something different with her or back to more time with her, you have to ask for it/be willing to discuss it. Some venting and complaining is normal of course but you want to be careful of becoming a person who just vents or complains and is not willing to take action. Maybe you could ask him to help you come up with a plan of what to say to her/how/when to talk to her? Going to guess he'd be more willing to do that. All that said, it would be hard to be with someone who is dismissive of you overall so I think you need to discern which is the situation that is going on. Probably a little of both. Try to work on better communication and ask for what you need from him that he is ABLE to give. I did skim a little bit of basil's reply and i agree that the he's probably not the type for girly chats like a lot of guys really. Maybe save that kind of stuff for other girlfriends. Not trying to minimize what you want but maybe keep your expectations more realistic. If he really is being totally dismissive of you, well of course let him go. Good luck 1
Versacehottie Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Fruitee said: Of course I am happy and excited for her. She deserves to be happy, to be loved and have a wonderful relationship. But I would assume it is also normal to miss a friend who I have known for 15 years, talked daily and met weekly. Now we meet maybe once in 3 months. It is difficult to be over the moon for someone who only talks to you when there is trouble in paradise and forgets you when things are fine. I agree with the bolded and think you deserve a friendship that is more balanced. Even though you've heavily invested in this friendship, see it as a positive that her inattention frees you up to find friends who are more balanced with you. Sometimes friend patterns set in where there is inequality that is hard to shake. It may seem like a negative what is going on but it's a fresh path for you and a little push to find friends who treat you better. Once every three months is a good pace for someone that picks you up only when she needs you and drops you when she doesn't. You deserve better. Guessing that a lot of the taking advantage you experience with guys, follows you in your other relationships as well as it appears to here with her. I'd say it's a blessing in disguise. I know you want your bf to be empathetic and/or solve the problem in some way but the commonality is that these things happen to you so I think you'd be a lot better off if you "dealt" with the majority of it on your own. Take active steps toward what you want--it will make you feel more empowered. No one has this kind of influence over your life but you.
Ruby Slippers Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 It's not anybody's job to provide you company. It will benefit you to learn to be self-sufficient and entertain yourself when friends get busy, as they will do. Many people including myself get attached at the hip with a new boyfriend, especially if the relationship is good. My friends are happy for me and understand I'll be more in touch once the initial heat cools down a little. I think this guy had a valid point of view and was right not to cave to you. Your friend is enjoying her life, doing nothing wrong. You can entertain yourself or hang out with other friends/family. 2 1
PinkFlamingo Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Fruitee said: I met this guy through my friends. One of these friends is my best friend who has recently started a relationship. I was talking with this guy I met how my friend is now so focused in her relationship that she has forgotten that we used to be best friends and how I feel hurt and lonely because of it. He started to explain (more like mansplain) to me how she has right to be happy and how it is normal that priorities change and so on. I said I know but I still have right to feel how I feel and of course I am happy for her but would also love to see and talk to her. I miss my friend. He straight up refused to listen to my point of view, blamed me for not accepting my friends relationship, was answering mostly "ok" and so on. Eventually he said I have changed as a person and he don't want to continue this discussion with me anymore. I have a history of picking wrong types of men and now all my instincts are flashing red. I thought he is more inclusive, feminist, understanding and open for honest discussions. I know I over reacted on this discussion as well. But also was not expecting blame when I try to open up about something sensitive for me. I am used to people at least listening and saying something comforting than straight up blaming me for being delusional. Any thoughts? I don't agree with most people here who said that he acted like this because he is a man and that men are sometimes conditioned to react differently than women. Saying that you are happy for your friend, but also miss her, is different to moaning that she has a boyfriend now and can't see you anymore. Also, him saying you have changed and he doesn't want to continue the discussion anymore seems a bit exaggerated, it's not like you had a debate about abortion and you wanted the right for every woman to abort a healthy baby until the last month of her pregnancy. Men who describe themselves as feminist are sometimes really feminists, but more often than not I find them a bit overzealous and annoying. Kick him to the curb and move on.
Versacehottie Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 respectfully, while i can appreciate that you don't agree about the conditioning of men&women and i totally agree that people who describe themselves as feminists can be overzealous and annoying--with what you bolded in OP's statement--i think if you read between the lines, her bf didn't "refuse" to listen to her, in fact kept listening to her but just started to respond "ok" and didn't want to continue the "discussion" anymore. To me, it sounds like he was being badgered to AGREE with her and that it was a "one-sided" discussion. Probably when she pushed him to say something or when he got tired of "listening" and not being able to contribute his point of view to the "discussion" the reason he gave or was forced to give is that he feels she has changed and that the "discussion" shouldn't be continued (ie because it's not productive and just causing problems). I don't think wanting your partner to rollover or insisting they do or failing to see their point of view makes them a bad partner. He could be bad for other reasons but not that reason. As far as the conditioning, look at the research if you feel like it. I think people could be more accepting of how things "are" rather than how we wish them to be and find a greater understanding of the opposite sex if we understood how they are built and built up. Keeping in mind, it means in general and like almost everything there is a spectrum of how people exhibit said conditioning. That's why I suggested OP telling (constructively) her guy what she would like/needs from him as far as communication. I think if she is honest with herself saying "i want you to totally agree with me and take my side" is ridiculous and unreasonable and she'd have a hard time getting that from most people, especially when they hold countering views. I wonder if he holds a countering view because he also knows her and sees the victim-y side she is presenting. Also being more positive, maybe he thinks the best friend is somewhat of a user toward the OP and wants his own time with the OP. Since this discussion mirrors the OP's in that we have opposing views, I can totally say that I hear you and see some of what your saying--maybe if the OP had a tendency to do that and coax that kind of response out of her bf, she'd not have this problem. 1
Watercolors Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said: You should no more expect a date to help you process sadness than you should expect a job interviewer to help you process pain. People don't wanna hear your problems. People need to know first that you are worth their taking time and effort and energy to care about your problems. This is what I was thinking when I read the OP. Dumping your sadness onto this guy you've known for a few months was bad form. It's not his job to coddle you. He's not your therapist. If you wanted him to view you in a romantic way, you ruined your own opportunity by unloading your personal problem onto him like that. Never do that again with any guy. You were pissed off that your friend shifted her time away from you, to her new boyfriend. Now, you're happy that she's broken up and can focus on your friendship again? That's not very nice of you. 1
OatsAndHall Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) I suggest you take a step back and think about the tone of the conversation. Most people (not just men) would have been empathetic had you simply expressed your sadness over not seeing your friend. I'll be blunt; I get the strong feeling that your tone was more confrontational and came across as running your friend down. If that was the case, you're not going to get empathy from him as they're a part of his social circle. You stated that he "refused to see your side" and he fell back into placating you with "ok's", I imagine that it was turning into a confrontation (not a conversation) and he didn't want to have anything to do with it. Also the "Women Are From Venus, Men Are From Mars" factor could certainly be in play here. Many men are likely to show empathy by trying to "fix" a situation. He didn't really see anything that could be "fixed" other than your take towards your friend. Through experience, I haven't necessarily learned how to be more empathetic; I've just learned to keep my trap shut and listen when my girlfriend is angry about something or someone from her day. She rarely goes on rants but I just shut up and listen when she does. If it's something that is a continual problem, then I will tactfully suggest that she try and and fix the situation. And, sometimes that comes down to me saying: "You don't like _____; you can either avoid them at work or talk it out with them but, right now, they've got free rent in your head." Edited December 30, 2019 by OatsAndHall 3
scooby-philly Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 It's hard to respond without knowing a lot more about you, your friend, your friendship, and this guy. Gut tells me he's probably the type of guy that can't think for himself. Probably heard someone else say something he thought was profound and now when something comes along that fits the bill, he uses that line like it's completely appropriate for the situation when it may not be. Now, he could just be a douche. Or he could be good friends or was having a bad day. But in the end, what does it matter. The only thing I can say is - if you feel this way why not talk to your friend? What's the worse that could happen. Maybe she feels the same way? Maybe you can increase it up to once a month? Sometimes even long-term friendships die or fizzle to next to nothing. But you never know what she wants and feels if you don't ask her. Try it.
Brennan72 Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 I think you need to analyze your own assumptions, ideology, and behavior Using the term "mansplaining" is a big red-flag right from the start, and shows hostility towards men. Following that up with demands that this guy be feminist and inclusive is another. Sounds like you don't like this guy to begin with and you are policing his speech. Believe me, most guys these days don't find any of this attractive, save for weak and submissive guys who orbit women out of desperation 1
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