Author Unhappy fool Posted December 29, 2019 Author Posted December 29, 2019 BaileyB you talk a lot of sense and I only wish I had found my way here sooner. Maybe could’ve saved myself some pain and heart ache. You are indeed correct he said someday, you’re this and this and you make me happier than I’ve ever been and I filled in the rest. You think if I push he will call time? So If I push for more he will end it... therefore I accept the crumbs of the crumbs or walk away
BaileyB Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 I’m sorry, I know you are hurting but I beg to disagree. My partner and I send a variety of “Merry Christmas” texts and phone calls - to family and friends. If he takes time away from our family Christmas with his children to text his affair partner “Merry Christmas” - I’m taking his gift back and he will be served divorce papers but Christmas. From your perspective, it’s not too much to ask... but your perspective is a little skewed. 1
BaileyB Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Unhappy fool said: BaileyB you talk a lot of sense and I only wish I had found my way here sooner. Maybe could’ve saved myself some pain and heart ache. You are indeed correct he said someday, you’re this and this and you make me happier than I’ve ever been and I filled in the rest. You think if I push he will call time? So If I push for more he will end it... therefore I accept the crumbs of the crumbs or walk away That is what I think, I’m sorry to say. If you are content to communicate and have sex with this man during work hours, make your peace and accept that this is all he can offer. If you want more, you will have to end it. Start to place demands, and he is likely to end it. I truly believe that. And for the record, I truly believe that you are worth more than this married man... I hope someday you come to believe that too. Lots to think about...
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 29, 2019 Author Posted December 29, 2019 Thank you for your honest advice once again. You’ve made a lot of sense and managed to do so without beating me with a stick. I do indeed have a lot to think about and I guess the first step is the hardest - or maybe not maybe the hard times with be the ones I want to tell him something. I know this will make eyes roll but honestly the first time he kissed me my head was shouting wow this is how it’s supposed to feel. He messaged me soon after to say it was like fireworks and yes he’d kissed other women but no one had ever made him feel like that. sorry I keep saying random things. Trying to get my thoughts in order and it helps to type it out as they pop into my head
DKT3 Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 No, what you're actually doing is trying to make this special, and its honestly not special. When you're staving liver and onions taste really good even if you cant stand liver and onions. Once you're no longer starving it's not so great anymore. Your situation is not good, your husband isnt interested in you and you where starving for attention and intimacy, this guy gave you some and it felt great. Now, not so much. Fix this buy fixing your situation. Once you have done so I guarantee you will find MM less appealing, your affair will start to feel to you as cheap and shallow as most here are getting from how you describe it. 3
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 29, 2019 Author Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, DKT3 said: No, what you're actually doing is trying to make this special, and its honestly not special. When you're staving liver and onions taste really good even if you cant stand liver and onions. Once you're no longer starving it's not so great anymore. Your situation is not good, your husband isnt interested in you and you where starving for attention and intimacy, this guy gave you some and it felt great. Now, not so much. Fix this buy fixing your situation. Once you have done so I guarantee you will find MM less appealing, your affair will start to feel to you as cheap and shallow as most here are getting from how you describe it. I aren’t sure how to respond to this. Please don’t forget that I’m hurting whether you believe it or not I love this man,we have also been friends/acquaintances for 20 years. So whilst you are clear on how much you disapprove, keen to point out what a loser I am and how worthless he thinks I am... I know this too, but I’m struggling and I am going to try my best to fix this. I’m sad and worried that’ll I lose this man who was my friend too I appreciate that no one here is going to approve nor encourage what I’ve done.
elaine567 Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 39 minutes ago, Unhappy fool said: I appreciate that no one here is going to approve nor encourage what I’ve done. It is not really about approving or disapproving it is about getting through to you that this guy, friend or no friend, is not someone to pin your hopes on and that you would be so much better served if you dump him forthwith, before he leaves you a shell of your former self or his wife finds out and he throws you under the proverbial bus... 3
stillafool Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Unhappy fool said: I’m sad and worried that’ll I lose this man who was my friend too This man is not your friend. If he was you would have received a Christmas card or text from him and his family. Real friends don't hide other friends. 2
BaileyB Posted December 29, 2019 Posted December 29, 2019 A friend is someone who wants the best for you. Someone who makes time for you. Someone who supports you and cares when you are upset. Someone who is willing to be unselfish and put your needs ahead of their own. I can appreciate how you may feel your MM is your friend, but he is clearly not. His interest in your relationship is selfish. His needs come before your own. He is very restrictive in the time he makes for you. If he was truly your friend, he would want you to find love and happiness. He would want you to have a life partner, in much the same way that he has a life partner. He would not want you to be alone, and hurt, upset. If he was truly your friend, he would be willing to end your relationship because it is in your best interest to do this - he would not want to string you along when he obviously knows you want something from him that he can not give you. True love is unselfish. And affairs, are as selfish as they come... 2
DKT3 Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Unhappy fool said: I aren’t sure how to respond to this. Please don’t forget that I’m hurting whether you believe it or not I love this man,we have also been friends/acquaintances for 20 years. So whilst you are clear on how much you disapprove, keen to point out what a loser I am and how worthless he thinks I am... I know this too, but I’m struggling and I am going to try my best to fix this. I’m sad and worried that’ll I lose this man who was my friend too I appreciate that no one here is going to approve nor encourage what I’ve done. No one here is intending on rubbing your nose in it. What goes on here is people who have been there and come out on the other side stronger and wiser are reaching back, trying to light your path forward. The problem is you aren't ready to get out of this situation, you aren't ready to actually leave your marriage, you aren't ready to give up on the MM. The judgement you feel here, before your affair you would have viewed as common sense. This guy is simply not behavior in a loving manner towards you. To pacify you he uses words that actually contradicts his actions. Common sense and good judgment is the first thing to go in affairs. Honestly it's the only way that good people can deal with the situation. As an example, during the first half of this year we had a MW who's husband had cheated on her some 10 years ago, she had recently started an affair with a MM. When pressed she said she could never let her husband back in because he was a cheater, and she couldn't be with a cheater. Hmm? Does that make sense? No, I don't believe you are a loser. I believe you are actually a good person. I believe that for several reasons. One the situation Is clearly overwhelming you. While others seem to brag about how awesome affairs are. You haven't spoke poorly of your husband, in fact you dont seem to want to talk about him at all. Which indicates you have empathy for him. You dont seem to be in denial about how wrong what you're doing is. So no. I like to say most people in affairs are good people making poor decisions, while some are just not good people. I believe you are making alot of poor decisions, and at some point you will have to pay for those decisions. People here are simply ahead of you in your journey and trying to get you to avoid the pitfalls and roads that lead you nowhere or worse backwards 3 1
Daisydooks Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 On 12/29/2019 at 1:20 PM, Unhappy fool said: I am not angry at him for opening gifts with his children. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to expect a merry Christmas message. Yes I exchanged gifts with people, but I wasn’t busy for 24 hours. I messaged a few friends to wish them a good day, so I don’t think spending 10-15 mins wishing people a good day is beyond the reach of people on Christmas Day. I certainly don’t think it would be excessive for him to pick up his phone at some point to say Happy Christmas. you are right in that I have my place and my place to him is to sit and wait until he clicks his fingers. Yes I am stupid, yes I have messed up big time. Yes I’ve brought this all on myself but it still hurts Know your place, girl. You dont get to demand attention. You dont get to expect anything. The sooner you accept that truth, the less this A will be appealing to you. You dont get to expect or demand. You get to wait and wonder. That's your job
elaine567 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) The only OWs who don't have a "place" are those who probably by design, luck or good fortune found they had connected with a man who was actually looking for a replacement wife or who had found something in the OW, that he knew he could never let go. That doesn't seem to happen very often. Many MM just like having two "besotted" women in tow and he just needs to persuade the "extra" one to stick around and not rock any boats, so he can stay safe in his marriage... Edited December 31, 2019 by elaine567 1
FMW Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Unhappy fool, unfortunately you're just not unhappy enough. You still feel that what little amount of happiness you get from him peppered into all the misery is preferable than not having him in your life at all. That's what has to change for things to get better for you. He's made it very clear what he will and will not give you, it's a million to one shot that anything will improve. It may even get worse. Most posters here don't want to be mean - it's just that a soft sympathetic approach doesn't work in these situations. I don't post about it much anymore and don't comment on most of the OW/OM threads anymore - but I was there. I get how hard it is to break free. I also get what a colossal waste of time and emotion it is and what lasting damage you do to yourself by hanging on. At some point you'll reach your rock bottom and won't be able to do it anymore. Don't hide from the harsh realities and you'll get there faster. 1
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 31, 2019 Author Posted December 31, 2019 I sincerely do not want to come across as ungrateful for your words of advice and help. I know I am my worse enemy, reaping what I’ve sown etc. my self esteem has been very low for a long time. I vividly remember at 18 getting dressed up for a night out with my friends - my mum asked me to be careful, my dad snorted and said oh come on look no would would touch her! Take one look and run. there are many more I could mention and it’s no excuse but my self esteem is practically non existent now - something I wish I could improve, yet when I’ve tried my family have said that self admiration is sickening and no one likes someone who things big of themselves. MM messaged yesterday, few messages and a I miss you before he told me was only back at work for the day and then had a few more days off to celebrate the new year. I know I’m incredibly frustrating. I know what you’re saying is right so why can’t I let go. Holding on for a sprinkle of happiness
DKT3 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 What does happiness look like with this guy and what needs to be done to get there?
BaileyB Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Unhappy fool said: my self esteem has been very low for a long time. it’s no excuse but my self esteem is practically non existent now - something I wish I could improve, yet when I’ve tried my family have said that self admiration is sickening and no one likes someone who things big of themselves. Sure, nobody likes a braggart. But, having self esteem is not the same as walking around thinking and talking to others as if you are God’s greatest gift... To me, self esteem means that one understands - they have value. I would argue that everyone has value, although some have a more difficult time seeing their value than others. Self esteem is developed to a certain extent through actions - we all develop confidence and self esteem by learning a new skill, accomplishing a specific task and doing a good job, developing satisfying relationships, among other things... But, self esteem/self worth is also just having the quiet knowledge that you have value, you have something to offer this world, you have something to contribute, and you are resilient and capable if things go well/wrong. I’ve thought about this, because like many I was very shy and really struggled with confidence/self esteem. Personally, I believe that someone may try to “take” some of your self esteem (and my favourite quote - “no one can make you feel badly about yourself without your permission” would suggest that they can not take your self esteem unless you allow it - hard not to do when you are a child and your father makes a mean comment). If an individual truly has self esteem and self worth, the discouraging comments of others would matter less and have less merit than otherwise. Self esteem is something that must develop from within - much like happiness. If you are waiting for someone else to “give” you self esteem, you will be sadly disappointed. You must “grow” it for yourself. How? Well, I would argue that you celebrate your strengths - what is it about you that makes you a good, kind, and competent person? What have you contributed - at work, at home, in relationships? What have you learned and accomplished? What have you overcome? See, in my humble opinion, a person who has good self esteem doesn’t walk around thinking big of themselves... Some of the people I know with great self esteem are also humble, kind, and considerate people. No, they don’t walk around thinking big of themselves but they also don’t allow themselves to be in positions that are not healthy for them, where others are able to take advantage. They have expectations for their life, for themselves, for others. They have boundaries in relationships with other people. It’s New Years tonight, if I may suggest to you - one small step toward developing your self esteem would be to tell that voice in your head - your fathers voice - that you are not going to listen anymore... And then stop replaying that comment in your mind. It’s been heard, you’ve evaluated it and it is false. The next step, tell the other man in your life who is putting you down and taking advantage of you that you are done. You can make the decision tonight that you will not speak with MM in 2020 - value yourself enough to set a healthy boundary and decide, this relationship is not working for me... I want more for myself in 2020. Then, go about figuring out what will help you to move forward and bring you joy in 2020 - maybe it means you will find a good counsellor, a new friend, a new hobby... It’s the start of the New Year, a new decade. It will be what you make of it. Stop wasting your time. Happy New Year! Edited January 1, 2020 by BaileyB 4
Poppy47 Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Take sex off the table and see what happens!!!! Poppy. 4
Author Unhappy fool Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 That’s really insightful and you’re absolutely correct I need to get passed the many hurtful and negative comments my father makes towards me. We recently did a team building thing at work where we had to write a positive attribute about each each person when mine we read our were kind, understanding, thoughtful, compassionate and a person you’d turn to in times of need. mm messaged today, just a hi how are you. I said I was fine and hoped he’d enjoyed his time off. His reply made me cry- he said it was idilic and throughly enjoyed his time at home and could do it every day . I feel even worse than I did before
TinyCastle Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 That sounds incredibly insensitive on his part, but I bet he didn't intend it as a slight. It is just a sign of how successfully this guy compartmentalizes and assumes you do too. Of course he prefers vacation to work. He wouldn't prefer work over vacation just because it would make him more available to you. You aren't going anywhere in his mind, so of course he can enjoy his time off at home. He hasn't been agonizing over the lack of contact the last few weeks as you have been. To survive this affair, assuming you still don't want out, you will have your get comfortable with his priorities for family and find ways to be happy or content yourself when he is with family. As the AP you come second. That's what you signed up for. And I say that as a current AP who has had to learn to do this myself. 2
stillafool Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 Unhappy Fool do you and your husband go out and do things together? Does he take you on vacation?
Ellener Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 'The "push pull" so common in affairs is classic intermittent reinforcement.' Elaine567 In the first stages of a relationship, meeting and whatever follows and the uncertainty- push/pull is perfectly normal. Judith Sils wrote about it in one of her better books, it's just the tenuous commitment necessary to pursue each other. In an established good relationship it settles down and both parties are equally committed.
Author Unhappy fool Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 53 minutes ago, stillafool said: Unhappy Fool do you and your husband go out and do things together? Does he take you on vacation? Hi no he doesn’t take me on vacation, we coparent our daughter but he’d never pay to take me/us on a trip away. we do things with our daughter- like watching her school events/ gymnastics displays etc
Author Unhappy fool Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, TinyCastle said: That sounds incredibly insensitive on his part, but I bet he didn't intend it as a slight. It is just a sign of how successfully this guy compartmentalizes and assumes you do too. Of course he prefers vacation to work. He wouldn't prefer work over vacation just because it would make him more available to you. You aren't going anywhere in his mind, so of course he can enjoy his time off at home. He hasn't been agonizing over the lack of contact the last few weeks as you have been. To survive this affair, assuming you still don't want out, you will have your get comfortable with his priorities for family and find ways to be happy or content yourself when he is with family. As the AP you come second. That's what you signed up for. And I say that as a current AP who has had to learn to do this myself. This is insightful. I think you’re right he wasn’t agonising since he knew I’d still be there waiting. I’m getting tired of being picked up and put down whenever he chooses. But I can’t let go even though holding on hurts
Author Unhappy fool Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 I replied to his message and said I was pleased he has such an idilic break and must be very hard to be back at work when he’d been in a haze of a perfect life the last few weeks. he said it sounded negative and hated negativity and people complaining and would reply/get into conversation. So assume this is the end
Author Unhappy fool Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 Made a ton of typos, meant he said he wouldn’t reply/get into conversation
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