A real predicament

[Calmandfocused]

On 12/16/2019 at 8:43 PM, elaine567 said:

I am not sure why this girl is getting vilified.
Most women want to move in with their bf at a certain point in the relationship.

Indeed. I agree. 
 

However most women who want to move in with their boyfriends also want to have sex with them too. 

 

Not in this case.

 

Her intentions clearly aren’t genuine.

[Adz]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Forgot to say. There is one skill or instinct you wanna learn. And that is to realize that people like this woman often are quite charming, especially at the start when they are luring you in. It's ironic: but one move you want to learn is to notice when people are too charming, too soon, without real reason. 

 

That person who is so flirty and sexy --beyond what's the real energy between you two, beyond some great back-and-forth conversation and chemistry--that's usually a person you want to pull back from.  Being too flirty and charming too soon ... is a sign of someone setting up a play ... When there is real chemistry, there's no rush. The person increases their like for you over time, as they screen you, check you out and conclude that you're worth it.

 

We can get suckered by assuming that conniving manipulators have fangs. Nope--they are often extremely charming--again too charming--too quickly. 

 

What you talk about now is just making so much sense. At the start I was literally flooded with compliments, I’m this, I’m that, I’m amazing. It didn’t matter if I had 3 heads, or two noses, she’d love me for who I was etc etc. (To be fair, I think I’m a pretty decent looking young guy anyway) But it was all very, very quick, to the point where families and babies were brought up no more than 1-month in. (Not by me I’ll add). She’d recite relationship milestones and plot where we should be in 1 month, 2, 3 months etc. I just went along with it, but maybe I should have noticed it then.

We only saw each other at weekends at the start, and it was all sex pretty much most weekends. In the week it would be sexual texts and all that stuff, that’s why the complete change in her way now is hard to fathom, given how utterly forward she was at the start.

 

Yeah, I was a bit taken a back at the start. I had seemingly got this girl throwing herself at me, giving me everything, showing me everything, accepting any flaw I may have had.... I felt accepted and pretty good about myself. Fast forward to now and seemingly when she thinks/thought she had me won; she's become this controlling and manipulative person who is picking apart every ounce of my being.

[Watercolors]

3 minutes ago, Adz said:

she's become this controlling and manipulative person who is picking apart every ounce of my being.

 

I'd venture to say that she IS (not become) a controlling, manipulative person who picks apart every ounce of your personality because that's who she already was, when you met her. But, she disguised herself as all the manipulators do, when they meet their next victim. Thank GOD you finally saw her true identity only 8 months in, so that now you can back out of this one-sided relationship as quickly as possible, heal from it emotionally, protect yourself from her breadcrumbing you via text psychologically speaking (manipulators don't like to let go of their victims that easily, once their victims become cognizant of their partner's true divisive agenda with them). 

We've all been where you are, Adz. We've all been duped by charismatic, charming manipulators who pour on the compliments and affection in no time flat to hook us. And then once they have us hook, they take off the mask they showed us, and reveal their true selves (which is someone who is very insecure, very manipulative, who has no sense of self-awareness at all or they'd change their behavior due to the sheer embarrassment and shame associated with it, who is only interested in controlling someone else whose boundaries are weak. And by weak boundaries, I mean; they select kind, friendly, empathetic, grounded, reasonable people as their victims). 

What have you decided to do now? Will you dump her? 

[Adz]

12 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

 

I'd venture to say that she IS (not become) a controlling, manipulative person who picks apart every ounce of your personality because that's who she already was, when you met her. But, she disguised herself as all the manipulators do, when they meet their next victim. Thank GOD you finally saw her true identity only 8 months in, so that now you can back out of this one-sided relationship as quickly as possible, heal from it emotionally, protect yourself from her breadcrumbing you via text psychologically speaking (manipulators don't like to let go of their victims that easily, once their victims become cognizant of their partner's true divisive agenda with them). 

We've all been where you are, Adz. We've all been duped by charismatic, charming manipulators who pour on the compliments and affection in no time flat to hook us. And then once they have us hook, they take off the mask they showed us, and reveal their true selves (which is someone who is very insecure, very manipulative, who has no sense of self-awareness at all or they'd change their behavior due to the sheer embarrassment and shame associated with it, who is only interested in controlling someone else whose boundaries are weak. And by weak boundaries, I mean; they select kind, friendly, empathetic, grounded, reasonable people as their victims). 

What have you decided to do now? Will you dump her? 

 

Yeah you're right! I've been duped, but not too far...thankfully.

 

Of course I will, she's gone. I need Christmas and new year over with, as there's some pre-paid things we've got, a little mini vacation that I personally don't want to lose (Yes, pre-paid as in i paid...).

 

So i've got to suck this up, get to January and then that's it. It will be a bloody terrible christmas, I can feel it, but it'll make me stronger at the end of it.

[Adz]

3 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Indeed. I agree. 
 

However most women who want to move in with their boyfriends also want to have sex with them too. 

 

Not in this case.

 

Her intentions clearly aren’t genuine.

 

I agree, I think it's a normal convo to have. But you can't have that convo when the other person is being so emotionally distant. Moving in should be the last thing at this point, it should be about re-engaging and re-connecting as people. But that isn't how she sees it, because she just wants help with her rent so it doesn't bother her that it's all emotionally distant, as that's not what she's after herself.

 

How can she be happy with no sex or intamacy though? As i've said before, she can't be seeing anyone else as she's always with me. When she isn't, she's on the phone to me or facetiming me, or she's asleep.

[fromheart]

Telling someone to move in or 'its all over,' is pathetic.  Seriously, I'd laugh in a woman's face if she told me that. 

[Caauug]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:12 AM, elaine567 said:

My guess.
You at the start presented yourself as perfect bf material. 
She saw a future with you and  she galloped ahead, she saw moving in together, marriage, kids...  but that future came to a halt as she realised the predicament you were in with the joint family mortgage and your lack of real funds and your unwillingness to move things forward.
You stalled and she lost attraction. Unhappy women do not usually want to have sex with guys they are disappointed in.
There is also no cut off point, so she is thinking, "This guy is just stringing me along, I could be waiting here for literally years", hence the pushing and  the ultimatum.
Once women lose interest like this, things tend not to improve, she probably has built up a bit of resentment as you have, to her way of thinking, "let her down".
 

 

Elaine took a lot of flack early in this thread but I feel the below OP quote has backed up a lot of what she was saying. I am not justifying the GF actions and I do not think Elaine is either just telling it the way she sees it right or wrong.

 

8 hours ago, Adz said:

 

What you talk about now is just making so much sense. At the start I was literally flooded with compliments, I’m this, I’m that, I’m amazing. It didn’t matter if I had 3 heads, or two noses, she’d love me for who I was etc etc. (To be fair, I think I’m a pretty decent looking young guy anyway) But it was all very, very quick, to the point where families and babies were brought up no more than 1-month in. (Not by me I’ll add). She’d recite relationship milestones and plot where we should be in 1 month, 2, 3 months etc. I just went along with it, but maybe I should have noticed it then.

 

 

We only saw each other at weekends at the start, and it was all sex pretty much most weekends. In the week it would be sexual texts and all that stuff, that’s why the complete change in her way now is hard to fathom, given how utterly forward she was at the start.

 

Yeah, I was a bit taken a back at the start. I had seemingly got this girl throwing herself at me, giving me everything, showing me everything, accepting any flaw I may have had.... I felt accepted and pretty good about myself. Fast forward to now and seemingly when she thinks/thought she had me won; she's become this controlling and manipulative person who is picking apart every ounce of my being.

 

 

Would I put up with Adz's GF? No way!!! I think he is on a very good path in life trying to improve his equity by home ownership. Why pay someone else's mortgage when you can pay your own? GF's rent money put towards house mortgage would have been a smart move if she wasn't so much of a bitch. They are two different people wanting different things in life, time to dump her and find someone like minded.

 

PS: I own 5 properties with one mortgage on one of them. Yes it is possible to pay for multiple properties at one time.

[smackie9]

It's called the "bait and switch."

[Adz]

We didn't spend Christmas together, mainly because we still have separate lives (I have family gatherings and commitments etc, which the invite was shared for…). But because she didn’t have me to her complete self, she’s flown off on me.

But we're not married. We don't live together. We have only been together 8 months. I need my independence still, as does anyone.

This is one of the first times I've said no and I've not backed down to her demands – she wanted me to ditch my Christmas day dinner with my family because she was lonely alone (she was invited to mine, as I’ve kept saying, but she didn't want to come). I've literally been guilt tripped all Christmas and being asked if my family was in a predicament or she was in a predicament, who would I choose.

I mean, what on earth is all this about? It’s absolutely ruined my Christmas. Is this normal behaviour? I’m torn between wanting to help but also not wanting to get roped into the guilt trips. Given the major issues of me not getting anything from this relationship as it was, what on earth is the point.

[schlumpy]

I think you are going to have to pull the plug on this girl and try again with someone else. You two just are not on the same page and I don't see a way for either of your to get there without becoming different people.

[Lotsgoingon]

Given where you are in your relationship, not a close call: your family comes first. 

But ... dude, she wasn't asking you this question to get at deep issues of ethics. The question was manipulation. She knew you would be uncomfortable saying "my family is the priority right now over you." People don't ask foolish questions like this at the start of a relationship. And people don't set up this binary--either me or them ... unless the person in your situation is like oddly and obsessively tied to their family. (Not the case from anything I've read from you.)

I get it: you don't have practice in saying no to a woman you're interested in. But you gotta learn. Having guilt over this ... is sorta like having guilt that your mugger didn't get all your money because while he grabbed your wallet, you had stashed money in your front pocket that you didn't hand over.

Hang in there, and practice saying no in the rest of your life, at work, with your family ... Not no to your family to be with her ... but no, just because of something you don't want to do. 

Saying "no" takes practice, it does. But ... you've set yourself up for problems by not cutting ties with this woman. She is an ace manipulator. You're a kindergartner in her hands--it's not a fair contest. So you want to call off the contest as a fraud, a sham, by cutting ties with her. You cannot out-negotiate her. She's got you feeling guilty for nothing. Dude, save guilt for murdering someone or scamming folks out of their life savings.

Hang in there ... or actually don't ... get outta there!

 

 

 

[smackie9]

Take someone else on that trip....she can go down the road.

[preraph]

"She’d recite relationship milestones and plot where we should be in 1 month, 2, 3 months etc. I just went along with it, but maybe I should have noticed it then."

She's living in a dream world.  She's got the "ideal boyfriend" and "ideal relationship" all planned out in her head, and of course that isn't going to work.  So now she's probably thinking you changed instead of that she was projecting someone you aren't onto you.  So now she's disenchanted.  She's immature.  Airy-fairy.  Believes in fairytales. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by preraph

[scooby-philly]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:41 PM, elaine567 said:

Well it all about perspective.
Women especially of a certain age want commitment.
They want to at least to move in, if the OP is not capable of providing that, then he may find it difficult to keep any woman interested.
Few women want to enter into relationships with guys who have complicated family living arrangements.
Most want men who are independent of their parents, men who can naturally move things forward, without the worry of making family members homeless or risking bankrupcy.
It could be said he entered into this relationship under false pretences.
SHE is the one making the most money here...

Okay - this wins the presumptuous reply of the day award. Now, it's a one sided discussion, but nothing he said made it even remotely possible that he wasn't honest and up front with her about his life and "living situation". "If the OP is not capable of providing that"....seriously? I thought feminine equality was about women being capable of making MORE than a man. Seriously - try no to give advice if your own past hurts make you say silly or ridiculous things. There's no sign he entered the relationship under false pretenses. And I know plenty of successful women who make WAY MORE then their husbands and are happy beyond their wildest imaginations with their hubbies. Jesus.

[scooby-philly]

On 12/18/2019 at 4:58 PM, Adz said:

 

What you talk about now is just making so much sense. At the start I was literally flooded with compliments, I’m this, I’m that, I’m amazing. It didn’t matter if I had 3 heads, or two noses, she’d love me for who I was etc etc. (To be fair, I think I’m a pretty decent looking young guy anyway) But it was all very, very quick, to the point where families and babies were brought up no more than 1-month in. (Not by me I’ll add). She’d recite relationship milestones and plot where we should be in 1 month, 2, 3 months etc. I just went along with it, but maybe I should have noticed it then.

 

 

We only saw each other at weekends at the start, and it was all sex pretty much most weekends. In the week it would be sexual texts and all that stuff, that’s why the complete change in her way now is hard to fathom, given how utterly forward she was at the start.

 

Yeah, I was a bit taken a back at the start. I had seemingly got this girl throwing herself at me, giving me everything, showing me everything, accepting any flaw I may have had.... I felt accepted and pretty good about myself. Fast forward to now and seemingly when she thinks/thought she had me won; she's become this controlling and manipulative person who is picking apart every ounce of my being.

 

It's called love bombing. The person goes WAY overboard with the affection, attention, words, actions, etc. in the beginning either to hide their controlling personality or because they're ashamed of something or they have low self-esteem, etc. And great sex is important if that's important to you (it is to me) but it has to be coupled with doing other things too. And overall - and wow were there a couple of ignorant responses on your thread dude) - if someone loves you they accept where you are in life - income, living situation, education, career, etc. A long-term, "til death do us part" relationship is about building a life together and managing the ups and downs. If she's playing these games now - imagine what it will be like to own property with her or raise a kid or take care of your parents when they age....RUN!

[FMW]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:13 AM, Adz said:

Is this normal behaviour?

Not in my book.  If she truly wants a future with you she should want to get to know your family and share your time with them.  Wanting you completely to herself all the time is unhealthy.  And personally, I would find it kind of scary.  

[Kaarek]

I'll make this short but you'd be surprised how important is Status now days for both genders. (Yeah, I know, that's disappointing/understandable at the same time)

As stated by you, she's pressuring you to move out with her because (obviously) she's afraid to lose that opportunity of having you by her side and do as she wishes.

What she's trying to do (supposedly) is to grab you away from your family members in order to be able to have more control over you and everything else regarding the relationship (I could be wrong, she could as well just be an extremely insecure person with a terrific low self-esteem and this could be her response towards you, but these can only be assumptions and nothing more).

Feel free to keep us updated.

Best Regards

[Versacehottie]

How has the OP not have his life together?!?!?  He is the one who partly OWNS where he lives while she is a renter.  Just saying.  He also in concerned and taking a measured approach to both the welfare of his family and his relationship with his girlfriend.  Idk, people do a lot worse than this on a regular basis.

Based on what you said, OP, i think your relationship with her is at an impasse.  She doesn't sound like the one.  By my math, she basically stopped being physical with you at around 5 months!?!? Heck no.  And is pushing to live together and make a huge financial decision.  Again, heck no.  I think this relationship has run it's course.  January is a perfect time to break up   Sorry, that's what i would recommend to anyone in your situation.  Good luck

[Adz]

Thanks for all your responses.

I said no for the final time to any of this crap and have cut the ties, it's not easy at all, and yes, I'm still being guilt tripped and being made to feel like I'm the cause of her now apparent mental health issues. It sounds harsh, but I've said you need to go and get some professional help if that's the case - I can't help you with that. I've now done the difficult task of removing contact, which is so difficult as she doesn't have anyone else really, but I can't keep getting reeled in.

It all started off so amazing, felt so good, but as she got comfortable the true colours did come out and over Christmas it took its toll. Rather than her being able to guilt trip me into giving her everything she wanted, she's pushed the relationship off the cliff instead.

There's a nice person there, but unfortunately a very, very strong narcissistic undertone to her behaviour and I cannot see how she will ever be settled with anyone if this is how she'll act. She won't change I don't think, this is her - everything must be about her all the time. I saw something the other day that was quite a powerful line -

'If you live your life as if everything is about you, eventually you will be left with just that. Just you''.

It's very sad, but there's not much I can say or do. I've got to look after myself and find someone, in time, who gets me and is willing to accommodate other people’s needs and lives. She didn't.

[Adz]

On 12/30/2019 at 6:45 PM, scooby-philly said:

Okay - this wins the presumptuous reply of the day award. Now, it's a one sided discussion, but nothing he said made it even remotely possible that he wasn't honest and up front with her about his life and "living situation". "If the OP is not capable of providing that"....seriously? I thought feminine equality was about women being capable of making MORE than a man. Seriously - try no to give advice if your own past hurts make you say silly or ridiculous things. There's no sign he entered the relationship under false pretenses. And I know plenty of successful women who make WAY MORE then their husbands and are happy beyond their wildest imaginations with their hubbies. Jesus.

Thank you.

She knew from the word go what my situation was, how I'm close to my family and what the setup is. From day dot.

I've never lied about that or hid anything. In fact, I'm kind of pleased I have my self in order as such in terms of a settled environment and a future, I don't really see myself going into renting and why would I if I own at the moment?

At the end of the day she wanted what she wanted and when push came to shove, wasn't willing to accommodate my needs. She has been awful towards my family the last month, she's trying to twist my mind against them - luckily, I've been able to spot her tactics - but yes, my father and what's happening here is my priority. Leaving this and leaving a mortgage and going into renting isn't my priority, and I think most sane people would agree I've made the right call.

If i had given in and moved out, what would be the next demand? Children, marriage? It wouldn't stop and the fairy-tale in her mind would never come to fruition because life doesn’t work like that. She has a lot of growing up to do.

[lurker74]

Be prepared for the charm offensive, probably around the end of January. She'll tell you how she doesn't know why she acted that way and that she sees the error of her ways and that loving you is the only thing she knows how to do. But the behavior will return if you get back together.

[scooby-philly]

4 hours ago, Adz said:

Thank you.

She knew from the word go what my situation was, how I'm close to my family and what the setup is. From day dot.

I've never lied about that or hid anything. In fact, I'm kind of pleased I have my self in order as such in terms of a settled environment and a future, I don't really see myself going into renting and why would I if I own at the moment?

At the end of the day she wanted what she wanted and when push came to shove, wasn't willing to accommodate my needs. She has been awful towards my family the last month, she's trying to twist my mind against them - luckily, I've been able to spot her tactics - but yes, my father and what's happening here is my priority. Leaving this and leaving a mortgage and going into renting isn't my priority, and I think most sane people would agree I've made the right call.

If i had given in and moved out, what would be the next demand? Children, marriage? It wouldn't stop and the fairy-tale in her mind would never come to fruition because life doesn’t work like that. She has a lot of growing up to do.

Yeah - I can understand the viewpoint that it needs to be a conversation. But....there are times when a relationship comes down to cold hard facts. And in this case you own a home and are invested financially - whether or not you want to live there long term or not is another question but in the short-term if she was serious - especially since she's only renting and apparently is very close to you - there's no reason for her to DEMAND you make the move as there's no real justification for it. It would be similar if you had a great career going and your partner demanded you leave that great career to help them start a business. It's just a way for a manipulator to try and grab control. And tbh - it may not be a question of "growing up". Normal people mature and learn that relationships are what you see in movies or on TV or what you see on Instagram. People with toxic behaviors or emotional problems don't grow up because their problems impede the natural psychological, intellectual, and emotional development that takes place throughout life. I would chalk this up as a better to find out now then to find out later!

[scooby-philly]

4 hours ago, lurker74 said:

Be prepared for the charm offensive, probably around the end of January. She'll tell you how she doesn't know why she acted that way and that she sees the error of her ways and that loving you is the only thing she knows how to do. But the behavior will return if you get back together.

Agreed 100% - especially if she can't quickly find her way into another relationship or feels like no one would believe whatever lies she would tell to make it YOUR fault the relationship ended.