A real predicament

[Timshel]

6 hours ago, Adz said:

 

I've offered that, but nope.... she wouldn't be able to keep 'all her stuff'. So, it's not like there's no possibility of living together and I'm not saying I don't want to live with her, the door is open to this place 100% whilst everything sorts out - and there is space as well as a huge spare room for storage...but that's not even an option in her eyes as she doesn't want to sacrifice anything, she likes 'her place' now.

 

I've mentioned I can't financially do it, but all I'm told is that it's up to me to find a way (I think I've found a way in terms of living here) and if there's no movement by April or my house isn't on the market by April, then it's done.

 

This ^ is not good relationship/marriage communication.  Adz, it's her way or the highway...with no sexual intimacy and a lot of you betters.  This isn't the one.  Please don't contemplate getting rid of your dad and tossing values for being in an controlling, manipulative, sexless, cold relationship with a woman person.

By dating her you have discovered that she is not a person who values you, your circumstances or needs. 

My advice would be to move on now...she is not the only woman and you will meet someone better suited when you aren't entangled.

Best.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

You don't have your life and finances together. Why are you dating/in a relationship in the first place? Expecting YOUR needs to be met, while not accommodating hers, is selfish. 

 

That's awfully harsh feedback. So what if the OP lives with his father. Anyone who is dating should have their needs met, regardless of their financial situation. That makes zero sense. Do you really believe that if a person is struggling financially - for any reason - they should not be in a loving relationship with another person? My grandparents were married from ages 16 to 101 and survived 3 bankruptcies together when my grandfather's business struggled financially. My grandmother didn't work (she was a housewife) and my grandfather did. That doesn't mean she was undeserving of my grandfather's love, or that she was irresponsible with money since she didn't work. She was very responsible with their money.

 

So, I disagree with your belief that the OP doesn't deserve to be treated with respect or have his emotional and physical needs met by his girlfriend because she doesn't want to renew her apartment lease because she's irresponsible with money and wants the OP to take responsibility for her. She's trying to manipulate the OP into doing what she wants and she's withholding affection and sex and emotional intimacy hoping that will crack the OP into lowering his boundaries (basically, become her doormat) to do what she wants him to do. Which I think is very immature of her. 

 

Why should he not have his emotional and physical needs met b/c he lives at home. His girlfriend is the one who has the financial straits -- she refuses to deal with her rent situation and wants the OP to give up taking care of his family to move in with her. That to me is what's unreasonable here. 

[fishlips]

She wants a sugar daddy, not a boyfriend. She doesn't want to have sex with you, but wants to live with you? It sounds like you've talked to her and tried to reason with her, but she won't listen or compromise. Honestly she would be doing you a favor if she lets you go.

[smackie9]

She's telling you to put your house on the market??? Put her back on the market!

[Adz]

On 12/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

You don't have your life and finances together. Why are you dating/in a relationship in the first place? Expecting YOUR needs to be met, while not accommodating hers, is selfish. 

 

I think that's an incredibly harsh post. I believe I have a lot together, the reason I have a lot together is because I don't cave into demanding, needy women like this.

 

I have a solid career, a full-time job, my own car, a mortgage - I do help my family and my father out a lot, but that's because they are family and I want to keep a roof over his head in particular. Can you name me anyone who can afford to pay for two separate living spaces? What I'm being made to do here is choose between my family and someone I've known for 8 months.

 

I'm made to feel guilty whenever I want to spend time with my family. The needy, sulky 'oh well, you don't care about me' attitude comes out. She would happily see me toss my entire family to one side to appease her needs, of that I have no doubt.

 

So, I took a bit of offence at that comment. I do have my life and finances in order and I'm not prepared to throw those out of order to appease someone who is giving me nothing at all. I take her out, make an effort, buy her things - it's just expected, I never get anything back. Luckily, as other's have said, this has only been 8 months and I've seen the light before it was too late.

 

With this girl there is only one way, it's her way. Any other way is wrong, any other opinion or thought is wrong. It must be all done to her requirements and her way otherwise you know it. This has all the hallmarks of a potentially emotionally abusive relationship to me., which is why comments like yours are just incredibly misguided.

[nospam99]

@Adz. I can afford to pay for two separate living spaces, even when unemployed. All numbers I'm about to quote are based on where I live. Typically income and housing costs vary based on where anyone lives. Back about a year ago, match.com allowed people to post their SALARY, not income which is generally much more, on their profiles. Plenty of the women whose profiles I read had personal salaries north of $75k/year, plenty higher (the next two levels were $100k and $150k). Plenty of them were seeking men with similar, or usually higher salaries. Again, salary, not income. Where I live, which isn't exactly cheap, a decently 'nice' single apartment can be had for under $15k/year. So two separate living spaces .... $30k/year. Easily done on a salary as low as $50k/year. If someone is going to tell me that plenty of people don't bring that much in, I'll readily believe. But plenty of people do. Plenty of folks own a home with a paid-off mortgage and a second home somewhere - vacation cabin (with heat and indoor plumbing) by a lake in the mountains or a condo in the Rockies or Florida. And I'm talking middle class, a married pair of school teachers or mid-level local government clerks. When I was 'most gainfully employed' (for decades), I was a software engineer and didn't match the salary of a public school teacher who worked less than ten months a year. Moving up the socioeconomic ladder, doctors, lawyers, tenured college professors, architects, civil engineers ... even more easily done. Next rung, successful small business owners; construction subcontractors, building tradesmen, mechanics.

Edited December 16, 2019 by nospam99

[Watercolors]

46 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

@Adz. I can afford to pay for two separate living spaces, even when unemployed. All numbers I'm about to quote are based on where I live. Typically income and housing costs vary based on where anyone lives. Back about a year ago, match.com allowed people to post their SALARY, not income which is generally much more, on their profiles. Plenty of the women whose profiles I read had personal salaries north of $75k/year, plenty higher (the next two levels were $100k and $150k). Plenty of them were seeking men with similar, or usually higher salaries. Again, salary, not income. Where I live, which isn't exactly cheap, a decently 'nice' single apartment can be had for under $15k/year. So two separate living spaces .... $30k/year. Easily done on a salary as low as $50k/year. If someone is going to tell me that plenty of people don't bring that much in, I'll readily believe. But plenty of people do. Plenty of folks own a home with a paid-off mortgage and a second home somewhere - vacation cabin (with heat and indoor plumbing) by a lake in the mountains or a condo in the Rockies or Florida. And I'm talking middle class, a married pair of school teachers or mid-level local government clerks. When I was 'most gainfully employed' (for decades), I was a software engineer and didn't match the salary of a public school teacher who worked less than ten months a year. Moving up the socioeconomic ladder, doctors, lawyers, tenured college professors, architects, civil engineers ... even more easily done. Next rung, successful small business owners; construction subcontractors, building tradesmen, mechanics.

 

So, why don't you ask Adz's girlfriend out then. Take her off his hands. She's an emotionally abusive, manipulative woman who is attracted to stable men like Adz for what they can give her materialistically. 

Why brag about how you can afford two homes and what a great guy you are. That's irrelevant information for Adz's predicament. 

Adz, I think you should re-evaluate this relationship with your girlfriend. She sounds like a terrible person. She doesn't even reciprocate when you give her anything. Why continue to invest in such a one-sided relationship like this for another 8 months, or god forbid, 25 years. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Watercolors

[nospam99]

@Watercolors. I posted because Adz's '' Can you name me anyone who can afford to pay for two separate living spaces?'' touched a nerve. He may very well be someone who can't. That doesn't mean there aren't people who can and do. Sometimes it's a matter of being willing to ''tighten one's belt''. I had no intention to brag and I have no interest in Adz's gf or any other woman who might 'want me for my money'.

[Watercolors]

8 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

@Watercolors. I posted because Adz's '' Can you name me anyone who can afford to pay for two separate living spaces?'' touched a nerve. He may very well be someone who can't. That doesn't mean there aren't people who can and do. Sometimes it's a matter of being willing to ''tighten one's belt''. I had no intention to brag and I have no interest in Adz's gf or any other woman who might 'want me for my money'.

 

I don't think Adz was literally asking someone to post statistics like that. It's great that you have the finances to afford 2,3,4, even 5 multiple homes. But not everyone can or does. Why did that trigger you so negatively? 

 

The real issue is that Adz has attached himself for the past 8 months to a very materialistic, emotionally-manipulative woman, who has demanded that he pay her rent for her and leave his family behind. That's very self-motivated of her, I think. I know women like Adz's girlfriend. They specifically target men like Adz, who are nice and reasonable and who are willing to accommodate others (to a certain extent) and put their needs aside (unfortunately for them). These types of women are only in it for themselves. Gold diggers, or whatever you want to call them. Financial security for themselves is their #1 motivation. 

 

Why not offer Adz advice on how to deal with that. How to get rid of this woman, if Adz wants to (do you want to, Adz, dump her). 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Watercolors

[elaine567]

I am not sure why this girl is getting vilified.
Most women want to move in with their bf at a certain point in the relationship.
It is hardly her fault that the OP is unable to do it due to his financial situation.
I guess she is also not particularly  keen on moving in with the OP and his family members...

[Legatus]

Wanting to move in is, naturally, a very plausible move for any relationship. 

 

Giving an ultimatum like that after 8 months makes this whole point invalid in my eyes, that's why she gets vilified.. 

[Adz]

20 hours ago, Watercolors said:

 

I don't think Adz was literally asking someone to post statistics like that. It's great that you have the finances to afford 2,3,4, even 5 multiple homes. But not everyone can or does. Why did that trigger you so negatively? 

 

The real issue is that Adz has attached himself for the past 8 months to a very materialistic, emotionally-manipulative woman, who has demanded that he pay her rent for her and leave his family behind. That's very self-motivated of her, I think. I know women like Adz's girlfriend. They specifically target men like Adz, who are nice and reasonable and who are willing to accommodate others (to a certain extent) and put their needs aside (unfortunately for them). These types of women are only in it for themselves. Gold diggers, or whatever you want to call them. Financial security for themselves is their #1 motivation. 

 

Why not offer Adz advice on how to deal with that. How to get rid of this woman, if Adz wants to (do you want to, Adz, dump her). 

 

I appreciate your support on this but annoyed by the acceptance from others at this behaviour though. It's not normal, is it? If it is, I’ll just live a life as a single.

 

If people can afford two places, then good for them. I have no problem with that. I guess I can't, that doesn't make me any less of a person who then deserves to be manipulated and treated like this. Do you know what was said to me last night? ''You could do so much better without your family around you, why do you need to see them at all? Just cut them off. It’s me you should be with all the time, get your father to sell up by the new year, then with part of the money from the house, I can set up somewhere in the new year' - Yes, the 'I' in that sentence was prevalent – she actually said I - and it's just pushed me to my decision even more.

 

This person is an emotionally manipulative and emotionally abusive person. I feel downtrodden as an individual and pathetic as a person, given that I'm told I can't do anything 24 hours a day. If I don’t live my life by her rules then I know about it. Even my friends are now commenting 'Why is she so horrible to you?' ''Why does she talk to you like that?''. They can see it, and now so can I thankfully.

 

I'm so confused as to why some people are taking her side here, it's a bit scary. I'm done with this relationship anyway, the comments last night did it for me.

[Adz]

20 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I am not sure why this girl is getting vilified.
Most women want to move in with their bf at a certain point in the relationship.
It is hardly her fault that the OP is unable to do it due to his financial situation.
I guess she is also not particularly  keen on moving in with the OP and his family members...

 

8 months though, is that really a certain point? Is it really the point at which things like this are rushed and demands are set?

 

I'd think you'd hopefully know by this point that it's a genuine possibility in the not too distant future, but setting demands at this stage seems pointlessly rushed. It's a one way street, I've mentioned I've got quite a bit of stuff and where would it go - oh you'd have to sell it, and we can use the funds on the 'place'. But what if I suggested maybe, maybe, she needs to look at where she's living and evaluate the size...and then bring the cost down? Then we can find somewhere a bit cheaper together? Oh no, she's got too much stuff, and she can't sell anything. She wants to stay where she is.

 

This is what I'm getting at here. It's all about her, all one way, no comprimise. I'd be giving up my entire life to live in someone elses, I thought it was all about sharing and caring but this won't be. I'm the one having to comprimise everything and get nothing in exchange. At all.

[FMW]

Wow - I think it is abundantly clear where her interests lie.  

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, Adz said:

I'm so confused as to why some people are taking her side here, it's a bit scary. I'm done with this relationship anyway, the comments last night did it for me.

 

I don't understand why either. It's very clear to me that she's the one who is manipulating you here. Just remember to go no contact. She'll try to bread crumb you (texts, emails, etc.) to try to guilt you to take her back and miss her. Don't fall for it. Oldest break-up trick in the dating rules book: bread-crumbing. She'll try to lure you back with flirty texts, or texts where she apologizes and makes (false) promises to you that she'll change. Just stay strong. The right woman for you won't force you to choose between your family and her. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Adz, one person here, I think, is defending your gf. To the rest of us, it's obvious she's a manipulator (and I hesitate calling women that term because historically the term can be quite sexist). But in this case, this woman is outright a manipulator.

 

Dude, I'll exaggerate, but only slightly. Her telling you to dump your family ... totally consistent with what's going on so far ... A woman who will not touch you ... is insisting that you leave your family to support her.  I'm sensing some real psychopathic tendencies here on her part. She's following the bully-abuser script. Bully-Abuser move #1: Separate the person from family and friends. The person thus has no outside reality check and no escape paths.

 

The question isn't whether you should say yes to her. The question is why are you even considering this outrageous, humiliating and patently absurd request?  No touching ... she slaps your hand away. Are you kidding me?!

 

There will always be a random someone who says, "hey, give the bully another chance. Maybe you need to do X more." It's your job to focus in on the truth and the truth is as you feel it.  And I'll tell you more: If I were a betting man: I would wager that she's seeing someone else and having sex with someone else. I almost guarantee it. 

 

I know it's hard to realize that some people are just flat-out conniving, but you have got to come out of denial here. Get to therapy to figure out what your problem is here--why you don't have confidence to stand up for yourself. This was a decision you want to be able to make without consulting any of us because your body should have instantly, reflexively screamed No Effing Way! You're blocking some key feelings here to even consider her request or to be bothered in the least by an opposing view on this woman's manipulations.

 

 

 

 

 

[wgmitch]

Adz,

 

You don't want to enter into something like this with this person, right? I mean all the signs are there, you're just thinking you won't have those feelings again, but it's silly to think that way. You should move on and find that one that makes you feel after 8 months the way you felt with this person in the first month. Hell let's look for one that makes you feel that way for the rest of our life. Right?! I say end this and go NC with this person and work on yourself.

 

I'm sorry. Head held high that you are with your family and helping where needed right now.

 

Remember to get out and exercise, eat right, read and challenge yourself to meet new people. This will help you pick up and move on. The key is to do it and not look back buddy.

 

Best of luck,

Mitch

Edited December 17, 2019 by wgmitch

[Adz]

13 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Adz, one person here, I think, is defending your gf. To the rest of us, it's obvious she's a manipulator (and I hesitate calling women that term because historically the term can be quite sexist). But in this case, this woman is outright a manipulator.

 

Dude, I'll exaggerate, but only slightly. Her telling you to dump your family ... totally consistent with what's going on so far ... A woman who will not touch you ... is insisting that you leave your family to support her.  I'm sensing some real psychopathic tendencies here on her part. She's following the bully-abuser script. Bully-Abuser move #1: Separate the person from family and friends. The person thus has no outside reality check and no escape paths.

 

The question isn't whether you should say yes to her. The question is why are you even considering this outrageous, humiliating and patently absurd request?  No touching ... she slaps your hand away. Are you kidding me?!

 

There will always be a random someone who says, "hey, give the bully another chance. Maybe you need to do X more." It's your job to focus in on the truth and the truth is as you feel it.  And I'll tell you more: If I were a betting man: I would wager that she's seeing someone else and having sex with someone else. I almost guarantee it. 

 

I know it's hard to realize that some people are just flat-out conniving, but you have got to come out of denial here. Get to therapy to figure out what your problem is here--why you don't have confidence to stand up for yourself. This was a decision you want to be able to make without consulting any of us because your body should have instantly, reflexively screamed No Effing Way! You're blocking some key feelings here to even consider her request or to be bothered in the least by an opposing view on this woman's manipulations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is, since I posted on here initially, things have taken even more turns and it's just hammered home, It helps hearing the views of others too as part of me wonders if i'm making it worse in my head.  But It's true, I don't have an abundance of confidence in myself and that's something I need to work on. Don't worry, I'm done with this, i can see what she's trying to do now.

 

Yeah, in terms of the touching. If she puts on a sad face and says ''oh i hurt :("  that's an obvious cue for a boyfriend to comfort, yes? So, when I do it or attempt to ''get your gammy hands off me, i don't want it to get worse''. If I try to intimately touch her, because you know it kinda happens in relationships, she'll push me away and then exit to the bathroom and pleasure herself in there. (this has happened multiple times)

 

Then I back off, I don't bother. She then gets all moody saying I don't care about her, I don't make an effort, it doesn’t seem like I want her etc. What on the actual planet does this stupid little girl want?

 

I’m about 90% sure she’s not seeing anyone else, mainly because if I’m not with her she’s facetiming me anyway. I don’t get a second of silence from her, whether it’s at work or elsewhere. The only time I hear nothing is when she’s asleep.

[salparadise]

On 12/12/2019 at 8:09 AM, Adz said:

She’s always been incredibly touchy feely, horny, flirty, always initiating intimacy, always wanting to show me off and the like. She doesn’t seem to be like that as much these days.  [...] once in 3 months

 

Once in three months means you have a sexless relationship. This, along the withholding of affection generally, would be a dealbreaker for pretty much anyone, not even considering the other part of the equation. 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 8:09 AM, Adz said:

She is beginning to pressure me into moving in with her by a set date, or it’s ‘’all over’’.

 

If she loves me like she says she does, why is she threatening to pass me up just because I can’t move in yet? Is the only reason she wants me to move in with her to help bail her out with the rent?

 

Ultimatum with a deadline, or it's over, eh? She must actually believe she's holding all the aces here. It does seem as though she wants you primarily as a cash flow solution. I realize that you care about her, but this situation would have any reasonable man rethinking the whole program. It's like she's trying to emasculate you and get access to your bank account at the same time. The micro view is that her tactics are unacceptable, and the big picture is that you have a woman here who is predisposed to this type of manipulation. 

 

The solution:  Just say no, call her bluff. Take your agency back. Don't wait for the clock to run out. You know it's a dead end, so you be the one to call it. If it's not crystal clear already, it will be when you get a bit of distance. It's ludicrous that she thinks she has enough power/control that she can withhold affection/intimacy and make financial demands at the same time. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by salparadise

[fromheart]

I mean point number one would be enough for me to end it.

Point number two also?!  I'd drop kick her for making demands like that.

Seriously man, why are you still with her?

[fromheart]

On 12/12/2019 at 7:52 PM, Adz said:

I even bought her a nice girlfriend themed birthday card; she was chuffed with it - but where is it now? God knows, it was never put up. Other people’s cards are though.

And that's what life with her will be like.  Sexless and miserable.

[Calmandfocused]

Interesting: 

 

if you don’t do what she wants you to do by a certain date then it’s over. Yet her giving you a bit of intimacy and sex from time to time is too much for ask? 
 

Slightly unbalanced don’t you think? She wants her needs met but your needs are not important.... however the problem is that your needs are important and just as important as hers are. 
 

Op you have the patience of a saint. I could not accept not having sex for 3 months and I’m a woman. 
 

Do not consider moving in with her whilst the situation is as it is. The sex will decrease even further, you’ll get even more frustrated, and eventually you’ll have to find somewhere else to live. In essence you’ll come off much worse. 
 

And yes her motivation here could be financial gain. It makes sense 

[Lotsgoingon]

You can turn this into a learning experience. You meet someone who acts like this woman, you pull away immediately. Some of us have to be burned to learn how to avoid bad relationships. 

 

What also helps is to get into a good relationship, even briefly--to get a sense of how someone who is kind and who likes you ... how they will treat you. You'll find that ... but first you gotta get out of this nightmare. 

 

Sounds like you are on your way. And BTW: great to come her to get encouragement and affirmation. Yes, ideally in the future, as bad as this woman is, you want to walk away instinctively, reflexively, right away. But we start where we are. You'll benefit a lot from this experience .

[Lotsgoingon]

Forgot to say. There is one skill or instinct you wanna learn. And that is to realize that people like this woman often are quite charming, especially at the start when they are luring you in. It's ironic: but one move you want to learn is to notice when people are too charming, too soon, without real reason. 

 

That person who is so flirty and sexy --beyond what's the real energy between you two, beyond some great back-and-forth conversation and chemistry--that's usually a person you want to pull back from.  Being too flirty and charming too soon ... is a sign of someone setting up a play ... When there is real chemistry, there's no rush. The person increases their like for you over time, as they screen you, check you out and conclude that you're worth it.

 

We can get suckered by assuming that conniving manipulators have fangs. Nope--they are often extremely charming--again too charming--too quickly. 

[Ellener]

Adz, a mature woman who is ready for long-term commitment would be impressed by your responsibility and follow-through, or if not would say 'sorry, that's not for me...' and move on, not throw a tantrum or try to change you and your life.