Am I in a toxic environment?

[JustKaska]

My workplace is a male dominated one. Sometimes it feels more like a frat house than an actual workplace.

 

In general, there have been many times where I feel like my coworkers dislike me and don't respect me, and I'm so baffled and confused and hurt as to why. I try really hard to be kind, to go out of my way to help them out with whatever they need, and also to be a good listener. I have caught them making fun of other people in the company on different teams that have similar personalities as me. (ie: Quiet, introverted, etc.) They all acted like it was in good fun and that they were just joking, but it's very likely that they think the same of me.

 

I also feel like they have little respect for me or what I do, even though my entire job consists of working with them and helping them out.There are a handful of people that, when they talk to me, make no eye contact with me whatsoever. These are the same people that will sometimes ask me a question, and then interrupt me or not even hear my response. They also sometimes act like they don't hear me whenever I speak to them (most of the time I am just talking to them to ask them something work related. I get sometimes people are busy or wrapped up in their email but it's happened a lot recently). 

 

If I say something, they ignore me. I catch them smirking at one another as they continue to talk to each other. I do try and make small talk with them or ask about their families, but they just give a short answer and change the topic or go talk to someone else.

 

My main problem is with my coworker "Minerva". She seemed wary of me from the start. She makes conversation, but will ignore what I say and will pay attention to my other coworkers. She went out of her way to train the new male hires in the department, but seems cold and short with me. She doesn’t say “Good morning” to me in the morning and ignores me if I say it to her, but will greet everyone else.

 

She seems to think it’s odd that I'm not married with children. That's all she wanted to do, blah blah blah. She also gives me backhanded compliments like how I could be very pretty if I just wore more makeup, better clothes, exercised, etc.

 

She's very curt when I ask her work questions, yet warm and friendly with others. She'll ask me personal questions and it makes me uncomfortable. If I’m having trouble with something, she seems to take pleasure from it. It's a small office and we all sit close with one another, so I can't avoid her or distance myself from her. I know we'll never be best friends, but it is wearing on my patience.

 

She's twice my age, which doesn't matter to me, but maybe it does to her? She's also oddly possessive of our coworker "Fergus" and the other men in the workplace. I was laughing with Fergus and Minerva made a comment about how his "wife will get a complex." We were just laughing about something that happened that was work related. 

 

Minerva is the boss's "right hand" person, so I don't feel comfortable going to the boss. I haven't been there long enough to know if there is anyone else to offer insight.

 

I've worked in a male-dominated environment before and it didn't end well- I was bullied out. (I ended up leaving without a job.) I have bills to pay and need insurance, so I can't do that.

 

I find all of this very frustrating, confusing, and very hard to deal with. Am I in a toxic culture? Is there something I can do to better my situation/relationship with others? Is there something I should be doing that I'm not? I wish I could talk to my boss about it, but he does some of the stuff listed above too (ie: ignores me and does not make direct eye contact or makes fun of other people on different teams...) so I don't feel like I can 100% trust him.

 

Am I over analyzing this and worrying too much? No one else seems to have a problem with this weird culture. I feel like a crazy person. My job is emotionally exhausting, and a lot of the time I come home emotionally exhausted and sometimes upset. I look forward to Fridays and dread Mondays.

[Watercolors]

Quote

My workplace is a male dominated one. Sometimes it feels more like a frat house than an actual workplace.

 

I worked as a technical writer for an online company and was only 1 of 3 women among like 30 guys. Total frat house environment. My supervisor was a complete asshat. He would spend his whole day IM'ing on Slack with his cronies. None of the guys I worked with ever made the effort to socialize with me either. I felt like the Star Trek Voyager character 7 of 9 -- very out of place. I was also "bullied out" of my job -- a job I loved and was paid well for. So, I can empathize with you.

 

11 hours ago, JustKaska said:

She's very curt when I ask her work questions, yet warm and friendly with others. She'll ask me personal questions and it makes me uncomfortable. If I’m having trouble with something, she seems to take pleasure from it. It's a small office and we all sit close with one another, so I can't avoid her or distance myself from her. I know we'll never be best friends, but it is wearing on my patience.

 

She's twice my age, which doesn't matter to me, but maybe it does to her? She's also oddly possessive of our coworker "Fergus" and the other men in the workplace. I was laughing with Fergus and Minerva made a comment about how his "wife will get a complex." We were just laughing about something that happened that was work related. 

 

Minerva is the boss's "right hand" person, so I don't feel comfortable going to the boss. I haven't been there long enough to know if there is anyone else to offer insight.

 

Wow. So you have your fat boy male coworkers who undermine your work performance and minimize your social value by not acknowledging you with eye contact when you try to engage them in conversation AND you have this older female coworker, Minerva, who the guys respect b/c she's your boss' "right hand" person. She sounds territorial with you, the way she acted when you befriended your coworker, Fergus. 

Since this is a new job and you've been through this scenario before where you were bullied out of your job, you know that outcome could possibly happen again. Time to change tactics. Think of this as a second chance to train your male coworkers to treat you with more respect (it can be done, trust me). Your first move, should be to win Minerva over as your ally. Especially since she's the boss' assistant. 

 

 

[Angelflower]

50 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Your first move, should be to win Minerva over as your ally. Especially since she's the boss' assistant. 

 

 

Having been through similar situation I know how hard it is for you. I agree with watercolors... In today's world you can't be yourself at work anymore. Sensitive kind people end up being bullied right out of jobs. I would suggest in this case "act" like you are just lucky to have the opportunity to learn from her. 

[Watercolors]

49 minutes ago, Angelflower said:

Sensitive kind people end up being bullied right out of jobs. I would suggest in this case "act" like you are just lucky to have the opportunity to learn from her. 

 

This is 100% accurate. It's unfortunate but so true. 

 

Ignore the back-handed compliments that Minerva gives you. Pretend you are playing tennis when she speaks to you. Visually hold up a tennis racket when she says something snarky to you and visually just volley it back to her. Don't emotionally react. Then, verbally deflect away the snarky comment by changing the subject to something work-related, or even more banal, the weather. Consistently do that and eventually she'll catch on that she can't get an emotional response from you anymore and will either stop, or she won't care and will continue to do that to you. The less reaction you give to Minerva the better. 

[Inspire]

Let me ask you this ... You said you haven't been there long, but how long is that? What was your initial experience like (as in the first few days). Do you have a lot of previous experience in the role you're in? Did Minerva want the position you're in? Who was in the position before you and what do you know about them and why they left?

 

[major_merrick]

I've worked in a frat house environment before.  You get two choices - you can become "one of the boys" or you can act like an emotional girl that nobody respects.  Minerva gets an exemption from this choice because she's older and close to the boss.  She can be herself, and act like a queen bee.  You won't ever get to.  I was one of the boys.  I drank, drove a fast car, talked dirty, and threw back every oafish comment they gave me.  It generally worked, and it helped that I was the "unwinnable lesbian."  Be sassy, have a sense of humor.  Humor is your best weapon, so learn some good lines and practice being carefree. 

You can either kiss Minerva's butt, ignore her entirely, or find a way to undercut her.  Either way will have to be done with tact, and the third choice is quite dangerous but potentially the most rewarding. She's a separate issue from the denizens of the frat house. 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

In my old job, I worked as a contractor, but the office of the company that hired me was almost fully staffed by women, there were like 50 women and 2 men, me and my supervisor, all the other contractors and supervisors and managers were all women. I could describe the treatment I received from them as similar to what you are describing here. Being a minority is not good, but at the end of the day, you can't take it personally... The thing is, the people who do the stupid stuff, they do those things because they are comfortable and the second they get comfortable enough to do something stupid enough, they will get turfed. 

 

Just mind your own and make damn sure to cover your ass. Many, many times I had groups of women try to gang up on me, only for all of them to look like unprofessional fools when I produced evidence of my competence through hard work. By the end of it all, I was more respected than my supervisor, he was reaching out to me with questions about clients that he had that I was not even working with, but I always made sure to never outshine him... I always let my knowledge be his knowledge and only let my light shine when it was safe too.. You can be a competent minority, but do not let your light shine all the time or you will make yourself a target... Covering your ass is something that is necessary, but if you end up doing it all the time, your workload begins to suffer, you have to have people you can trust.

[JoeyArnold]

On 12/15/2019 at 9:44 PM, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

I always made sure to never outshine him

 

I guess that it partly comes down to relevance. In other words, some things may not be relevant enough. Well, it depends. but basically, yeah, I agree that you should not try too hard to outshine your supervisor, perhaps, to an extent, generally speaking. Part of that has to do with psychology. Now, you may sometimes accidentally outshine. You may not always know if you will or not. But you can at least try not to outshine if you want. And like you said, when you outshine, then you become a brighter star perhaps. So, it is like putting a target on your back in some cases. Yeah, it takes more work. It can be tougher. It is riskier. Perhaps, for some people, maybe they should at times. But a person needs to understand what he or she is getting into at least. Also, like you said, it can be harder for people to trust you if you're not assisting. In other words, it depends on who is playing which roles. To outshine is to perhaps step on the feet of other people to perhaps steal their roles. So, it is fundamental to maintain trust, relationships, dialog, etc.

Edited December 17, 2019 by JoeyArnold

[preraph]

I'd be looking for a better job.  Minerva has no business harping on you about no kids, etc.  She could get in trouble for it, but since the whole place is a madhouse, don't bother trying to fix her through HR.  You have a "hostile work environment."  You don't fit in.  It's unlikely they'll advance you, so put out feelers for something better.  If you get interviewed while still employed there, tell them they can't contact your present employer because you still work there.  If you are going into the same type field, likely competitors already know it's a fratboy culture over there.  So you'll have to just be neutral and hope you don't end up in the same fix at the new place.  

 

Best sometimes to just keep your head down.  Do NOT try to help people.  Just do YOUR job and keep to yourself.  Shut the door.  Look for another job.

[JoeyArnold]

7 minutes ago, preraph said:

You don't fit in. 

 

That pill is very tough to swallow but the sooner a person can accept that, the sooner that person can find some peace in attempting to move on. Yeah, you may not want potential employers to contact current employers. Sometimes, people can be where they don't belong. The only thing worse can be if you lie to yourself to say that you are the problem. You might not be. It might be them. Be honest with yourself. Try to always remind yourself of your main objectives, your main priorities in life. Too often, we can forget what our main goals are. Also, some of our goals can change. Yeah, you may want to keep your head down in some situations, especially in a situation where you may change jobs. You cannot always help everybody all of the time. Pick your battles wisely.

Edited December 17, 2019 by JoeyArnold

[preraph]

I've been in enough "good ol boy" environments to know what she's dealing with.  And the women who protect them.  Minerva.  She'll be the one to pull something.  

[kalakuta]

There are four ways I see. Others may see more: Option 1 - Leave the job. Option 2 - Become invincible, Option 3 - Shrink, Option4 - (This is the one I will do if I am in your position) Hold your ground. Know your own worth. Do you need them to be friendly with you? It is expected naturally that co-workers should be friendly at least. Most of the time this is not the case in some environment. When you know your worth, they will dance to your tune. If they don't, it doesn't matter because you will not be dancing to theirs. In my experience, you will be recognise over time when you hold your ground. For example, if the other girls ask you a question, simply tell her, 'you don't need my answer. the other times you've asked, you cut me off' even if the CEO is there. You are not hurting her. You are telling her, her own truth. You hold your ground. If there is escalation after option 4. Still hold your ground. Follow up the process of grievance and then find another job in the process.

[JustKaska]

On 12/15/2019 at 10:07 PM, Inspire said:

Let me ask you this ... You said you haven't been there long, but how long is that? What was your initial experience like (as in the first few days). Do you have a lot of previous experience in the role you're in? Did Minerva want the position you're in? Who was in the position before you and what do you know about them and why they left?

 

 

I've been in the position for almost a year. The first few days were chaotic but only because I started during the busy season. Yes, I have previous experience. I'm not sure if she wanted my position. She has been in her role for a few years now. The person previously in my position was only there for a year before moving on. I'm not exactly sure why they left; there were rumors that the person and my boss didn't get along. Something about communicating effectively or something. I think that there is more to the story, but I don't know what it is. 

[Inspire]

Well a year is a relatively long period of time. I was under the assumption you had just been there for maybe a few months. Was your team like this when you had first arrived or has this been progressively getting worse over time? If it isn't a professional atmosphere, there is probably little that can be done. The key here would be your boss. I could see talking to him negatively about her would be a bad idea but you could reach her and gain some insight by putting a spin on it to him but it doesn't sound like he is very competent so I would avoid that route.

[Libby1]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:35 PM, preraph said:

I'd be looking for a better job.  Minerva has no business harping on you about no kids, etc.  She could get in trouble for it, but since the whole place is a madhouse, don't bother trying to fix her through HR.  You have a "hostile work environment."  You don't fit in.  It's unlikely they'll advance you, so put out feelers for something better. 

 

Seconded.  Look on this job as a taste of the sort of environment you really aren't suited in.  Not every workplace is like this one.  There are some great environments out there with the kind of mentors who will genuinely want to see you flourish, but if you stay in this one and try to become one of the boys when that's really not your temperament then it might change you in ways that would leave you less suited to the sort of environment where you would do well.

[JustKaska]

32 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

 

Seconded.  Look on this job as a taste of the sort of environment you really aren't suited in.  Not every workplace is like this one.  There are some great environments out there with the kind of mentors who will genuinely want to see you flourish, but if you stay in this one and try to become one of the boys when that's really not your temperament then it might change you in ways that would leave you less suited to the sort of environment where you would do well.

 

 I don't understand why I was hired in the first place. Did they just want a whipping boy/girl and thought that I would make the perfect target? (Can that happen in a work place?) Also, I've noticed that when I'm quiet/submissive, they seem fine. When I am more vocal and have said sarcastic retorts, then seem surprised. (Haha- I'm stronger than they think....) I just am sick of it having to be a battle every single day and the "kiss up, kick down" mob-like mentality of the place.

[Libby1]

12 minutes ago, JustKaska said:

 

 I don't understand why I was hired in the first place. Did they just want a whipping boy/girl and thought that I would make the perfect target? (Can that happen in a work place?) Also, I've noticed that when I'm quiet/submissive, they seem fine. When I am more vocal and have said sarcastic retorts, then seem surprised. (Haha- I'm stronger than they think....) I just am sick of it having to be a battle every single day and the "kiss up, kick down" mob-like mentality of the place.

 

I'd be willing to bet that if somebody asked them what they think of you, they'd probably say "JustKaska?  Bit quiet, but nice girl."  But if you're a quiet person in an working environment filled with fairly raucous people, life is likely going to be difficult at times whether they like you or not.  If you're good with a sharp, sarcastic retort then yeah - I'd let them have that now and again.  Generally though I think an environment like this is a place to practice retaining your composure in difficult circumstances.  But again, I'd urge you to focus on looking around for a better working environment that's more suited to who you are.  What they think of you and why they employed you isn't necessarily something worth much of your time and energy contemplating.

[JustKaska]

4 hours ago, Libby1 said:

 

I'd be willing to bet that if somebody asked them what they think of you, they'd probably say "JustKaska?  Bit quiet, but nice girl."  But if you're a quiet person in an working environment filled with fairly raucous people, life is likely going to be difficult at times whether they like you or not.  If you're good with a sharp, sarcastic retort then yeah - I'd let them have that now and again.  Generally though I think an environment like this is a place to practice retaining your composure in difficult circumstances.  But again, I'd urge you to focus on looking around for a better working environment that's more suited to who you are.  What they think of you and why they employed you isn't necessarily something worth much of your time and energy contemplating.

 

Thank you- this is good advice. It's going to be difficult maintaining composure because even if I don't say anything, my face usually gives my feelings away. (I need to develop a better poker face.) In toxic environments, it's almost like they want you to react, so you need to do the opposite.

[Watercolors]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:13 PM, JustKaska said:

In toxic environments, it's almost like they want you to react, so you need to do the opposite.

 

Even if you do the opposite and not react, the toxic environment won't change and over-time you will because toxic work environments wreak havoc on the body's nervous system and as a result, can cause chronic illness and chronic stress to the point where you'll start to question your own sanity. A friend of mine stayed in her toxic work environment for over 5 years and she was so stressed out, she experienced massive hair loss, anxiety attacks and hives at work. Her husband supported her quitting her job so she did. Once she left that toxic work environment, her hair loss stopped, as did her anxiety attacks and hives. 

If you think you can last in this job for years to come, you'll have to come up with a plan to protect yourself from the build-up of the chronic stress you will experience working there. 

[JustKaska]

I just don't understand- Am I doing something wrong when talking to my male colleagues? We work together, so it'd be awkward if we didn't talk. I do laugh, but now I'm afraid it'll look like I'm flirting so I've been quiet. Minerva almost flipped her lid this past week because Fergus was talking with me and we were laughing. (Fergus likes to push buttons and start drama. He is very social and a flirt, but it doesn't mean anything.) He noticed and started talking to her.

I just feel weirded out when she makes the comments about how his wife will get jealous, etc. Yet, Minerva will put her arm on his arm, touch him on his back, etc.

She also seems to enjoy any type of drama and seems to want to see me fall flat on my face. Fergus was supposed to go to a meeting with me and didn't show. I went to the meeting, but forgot something so I had to go back to my desk. I saw Fergus, socializing with others, and he had this look on his face like, "Uh oh." I got my stuff and left. When the meeting was over, we left separately. When I got back to the office, they were all talking about it, thinking I was mad or something. Fergus tried to brush it off and make small talk like nothing happened. Minerva of course, loved this. Any time I'm upset or see upset, she gets happy.

I'm just sick of this drama. Also, in toxic environments, they seem to want you to be happy and keep a smile on your face. If you're not smiling, then you're a target as well. I know you should be pleasant and professional, but it seems like when you're in a bad environment, they expect you to be happy all of the time and I can't. (My emotions show on my face.) Why is this though? What is with this place?

Lastly, should I talk to my boss about the situation with Minerva or what's going on? I don't think it will help, but any thoughts? Should I ask her if she has any concerns about my working with Fergus or anything being said?

Edited January 13, 2020 by JustKaska
To fix grammar and spelling mistake.