age-gap, possible rebound, or worse, but now my family is welcoming her

[preraph]

if you're not exclusive then you technically can't accuse her of cheating except for one thing and that is she's been lying to you. Lying is even worse than cheating because it doesn't just pertain to one thing. if she'll lie about that she'll lie about a lot of things and you'll never be able to trust her.

[maybeThen]

5 minutes ago, preraph said:

if you're not exclusive then you technically can't accuse her of cheating except for one thing and that is she's been lying to you. Lying is even worse than cheating because it doesn't just pertain to one thing. if she'll lie about that she'll lie about a lot of things and you'll never be able to trust her.

I thought we were exclusive. I mean she was calling me her boyfriend and everything else that went with it. There was no reason for me to believe anything else. If I’m one’s boyfriend then that’s what it is. The exception would be to have a conversation for any non-monogamous agreements, otherwise monogamy is implied, no?

 

But all this revelation really does at this point is cement the fact she’s disingenuous: the plagiarized love writings, kissing him and possibly more while leading me to believe he was out of the picture, telling him she hopes they can try again, all while calling me her soul mate and telling me she loves me. 

 

But im so desperate to believe it all I sit here and tell myself she was just confused  and working out her feelings and she really does love me. Yea right. 

[smackie9]

Well.....you know how the saying goes, if it's too good to be true.....

[preraph]

9 minutes ago, maybeThen said:

I thought we were exclusive. I mean she was calling me her boyfriend and everything else that went with it. There was no reason for me to believe anything else. If I’m one’s boyfriend then that’s what it is. The exception would be to have a conversation for any non-monogamous agreements, otherwise monogamy is implied, no?

 

 

 

No, I would have to say that monogamy is not implied at all, if it ever was.  Thing is you did talk about it in a roundabout way, and she told you that thing about her ex and revisiting that.  So if anything, it was talked about that you're NOT exclusive.  Anyway, she's lied and is very involved with her ex.  I don't know what she's up to with you, but it can't be good.  

[maybeThen]

8 minutes ago, preraph said:

 

No, I would have to say that monogamy is not implied at all, if it ever was.  Thing is you did talk about it in a roundabout way, and she told you that thing about her ex and revisiting that.  So if anything, it was talked about that you're NOT exclusive.  Anyway, she's lied and is very involved with her ex.  I don't know what she's up to with you, but it can't be good.  

We were together for 4 months before she ever mentioned she was involved with him

 

4 months of calling me her boyfriend

4 months of I love yous

4 months of counting down the days to see me

4 months of posting me on her social media telling everyone how much she loves me 

4 months of risqué photos and texts 

4 months of love letters 

 

...then out of the blue, 4 months into this, she admits she still speaks and has feelings for the ex only after I told her I wanted to spend my life with her  

 

But I guess in the future when a woman tells me I’m her boyfriend and she loves me I have to verify that she’s not also saying that to anyone else. What has his world come to where telling someone, “You’re my boyfriend. I love you. I’m so happy I found you” for 4 months straight tips someone off to non monogamy? 

 

If I’m honest with myself the thing that truly makes sense here is that I’m likely a void filler and make her feel good. She had me believing we were exclusive to ensure my attention was only on her. If I thought otherwise I wouldn’t have done or said half of the things I did. 

 

13 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Well.....you know how the saying goes, if it's too good to be true.....

That’s true. I’m starting to get a little annoyed now as this all dawns on me. My family members have been friending her online and talking to her and telling her they can’t wait to meet her. 

 

My family is very happy about all of this because I’ve been lonely for so long. And to think its likely all a lie. 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by maybeThen

[preraph]

Saying you're her boyfriend is not the same as being exclusive at all.  She is either love--bombing you to keep you there filling whatever role it is she's using you for, or she's very fickle.  But she's also a liar, so I think you can assume the worst.  Of course, she did warn you about the ex once.  She considers herself to have given you fair warning she was still involved or might be in the future.  I think you need to let your family know what's going on, that you know she's still sometimes involved with her ex and not to get too attached just in case.  

 

I hope you're not giving her material things or money.  Because that would explain everything.  

[maybeThen]

17 minutes ago, preraph said:

  

 

I hope you're not giving her material things or money.  Because that would explain everything.  

She makes more money than me. I’ve seen her career salary. She brought me an expensive gift when she flew out as well

 

but... I funded her trip, paid for all of the food, and we stayed at my place. And I gave her items from my family’s shop. That was how we met, at the shop I run selling items she collects. 

 

But I never gave her money. She says she likes being treated like a princess and there was a lot of emphasis on her wanting affection, to feel loved. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by maybeThen

[preraph]

Well, that's good, but someone wanting to be treated like a "princess" always puts my antennae up, that and "queen."  It usually does mean someone trying to get gifts.  

 

I guess if she wants to feel loved, she ought to take it one man at a time, right?  You're going to have to talk to her about this some way.  I don't think I'd trust her though if she said she'll stop.  Likely just conceal if more.  

[maybeThen]

46 minutes ago, preraph said:

.  

 

I guess if she wants to feel loved, she ought to take it one man at a time, right?  You're going to have to talk to her about this some way.  I don't think I'd trust her though if she said she'll stop.  Likely just conceal if more.  

I’m not that bold. That would end everything. It’s clear from her conversation with me that this is nowhere as serious as I thought it was and she said she enjoys the feeling of it all. 

 

I think i just had trouble separating everything I thought were signs of something real, and magical, with the fact that it’s probably just a void-filling feeling for her. 

 

Im coming to terms with that now. 

[preraph]

I'm really sorry.  If it's any comfort at all, this is not normal behavior.  It seems way off, mainly all the instructions about what she wants telling you how to act.  I mean, we all hope to meet someone who does what the ideal person in our head does, but it's not very rational to just try to make some guy you meet into that person like this.  It shows she's not very realistic and prefers to live in kind of an idealistic dream world.  Of course, she IS young, so idealism and believing in fairytales is fodder for the young inexperienced people.  You operate on a different level than her.  I don't know if she's old enough to know better or not.  This seems like really immature behavior though.  She may be trying to show that ex that she's hung up on that SOMEONE out there will treat her like a princess if she won't.  That doesn't mean she's any less interested in him though, unfortunately.  

 

You need to just keep your eyes wide open and go into self-preservation mode as far as your emotions.  But again, rest assured, this is not typical behavior . I mean, you hear a lot of different stories on Loveshack, and this is not a repeat!  So at least if you have to leave her and put yourself back out there, you needn't worry the next one will be just like her.  

[maybeThen]

22 minutes ago, preraph said:

This seems like really immature behavior though.  She may be trying to show that ex that she's hung up on that SOMEONE out there will treat her like a princess if he won't.  That doesn't mean she's any less interested in him though, unfortunately.  

 

She did say that, but my denial saw something different in her words. She did say in the message to him that I saw in reference to me, something to the tune of, "I will keep talking to him for now because I like the feeling. It's nice to be treated like a princess and loved, that's what I wanted from you," and then went on to say she was angry and needed time away from him to let go of her anger. In fact, she said the trip spending time with me made her even more angry at him. I think the entire time she was probably wishing it were him, and upset that it was not.

Thank you for the sympathy. I don't know what I will end up doing but  I'm beginning to release the hope I had of, "maybe she will choose me in spite of everything." I think it boils down to the fact that I am lonely, she's young, beautiful, and I felt charmed. But the reality of her seems far different.

Edited December 14, 2019 by maybeThen

[preraph]

She's got to let go of some of her emotions about him before she could move on to someone else probably. She sounds kind of chaotic and confused. I wish she would just open up and talk to you but I'm afraid she may not even know what she's doing or what she wants when it comes down to it.

Edited December 14, 2019 by preraph

[maybeThen]

38 minutes ago, preraph said:

She's got to let go of some of her emotions about him before she could move on to someone else probably. She sounds kind of chaotic and confused. I wish she would just open up and talk to you but I'm afraid she may not even know what she's doing or what she wants when it comes down to it.

Well yes, but she flat out told him she wanted to try again with him once her anger went away.  It was essentially, "I cant reciprocate certain behaviors with you because I am angry. I need to not talk to you right now so I can get over my anger.  Then I want to see if we can work out again because I miss you and everything we have in common."  Granted, her anger going away may be synonymous with not wanting to try again with him when that time comes. Time has a way of changing things. And I suppose that's what I am willing to wait around for and see.

But she did open up and talk to me, to some degree at least, and that was what transpired: She can't promise me a future, doesn't want to rush into anything serious, still has feelings for her ex, and is figuring things out. I told her I hope she ends up happy whatever she decides to do.

Really, the more my logical mind takes over, I think I was just a fun whirlwind romance for  her. I am ugly, she is gorgeous, I am old, she is young. This all happened way too quickly. And yes the romantic in me wants to think the underdog gets a happy, uncommon ending, where I fall in love and the beauty likes the beast. And maybe I still hope for that, but I am being more realistic about it now.

[preraph]

8 minutes ago, maybeThen said:

She can't promise me a future, doesn't want to rush into anything serious, still has feelings for her ex, and is figuring things out. I told her I hope she ends up happy whatever she decides to do.
 

You have got to stop being altruistic and start standing up for yourself in this. You have basically given her carte blanche to walk all over you and disregard any feelings you may have and any hurt you may feel by her actions now and in the future. you need to let her know that you do have feelings and you get your feelings hurt and that you expect decent open and honest and ethical treatment. You really have set yourself up by giving her permission. you can't tell her what to do but you should not endorse her in that way because it only removes all the responsibility from her. At this point she probably thinks she can't hurt you no matter what she does. 

 

You need to be more honest with her or it will be partially your own fault if you end up hurt.

 

I don't care how hot you think she is, you may be a much better person than her for all I know. There are things way more important than how pretty someone is or isn't.

 

If you don't stand up for yourself and at least expect decent treatment and honesty, she will lose all respect for you if she hasn't already. You need to focus on retaining your selfrespect no matter what happens because when it is all over you are who has to live with you.

[maybeThen]

It's true that I don't have a lot of self esteem. I have honestly been single for so long, this opportunity that presented itself was big for me and I feel, and felt, that stepping aside some and watching what transpired didn't lose me anything. My life would remain the same if anything, I would go back to being by myself, and that's ok.

In any event, I took some time to clear my head some and really, this woman doesn't owe me anything. I am almost 50 years old, she is 30. I have spent 11 days with her and turned it into a marriage proposal. She did have the decency to sit me down and tell me I had taken it too far, essentially. She was opened and honest with me about what she wanted, and her feelings for her ex partner. I can't ask for anything beyond that, I can walk away if I want to and say it doesn't work for me. But again, stepping aside and watching what transpires doesn't lose me a thing. In the mean time, I get to spend some time with her for however short-lived it may be.

I think it boils down to this: She wanted someone to build her up after what she went through, and I clearly needed it as well. She says the nicest things to me, things I know aren't necessarily "true" but it has made me feel great about myself, and I see I am doing the same for her. I don't think any of this was necessarily sinister in nature, just two lonely people who wanted their self-esteem rebuilt.

[smackie9]

ya I say that it is all that it is....that's why I say just enjoy what you got til it lasts.

[maybeThen]

In my original post I forgot to mention a big detail too. And it was that she told her ex, in reference to me, “I can’t say I’ll still be talking to him in a few months, I don’t know that”

 

i told myself originally she was just saying that to keep him around and lead him on. But now that my head is clearer and I put all of this together, the evidence is pretty much stacked against me that yes, this is short term. No matter how much Hope I had that it would blossom into something more.  Between the plagiarized love letters, the photos I found of him and her, the texts saying she wants to try again with him vs telling me “I can’t make any promises”. It’s pretty clear to me where her heart is at. 

 

Our relationship is built on fantasy and I learned an important lesson not to get caught up in it all. Good feelings don’t mean long-lasting intentions.

 

Now I have to begin figuring out how to ease out of it all in terms of my family celebrating this and happy for me. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by maybeThen

[smackie9]

Your family are no dummies. They probably question it as well, but won't say anything to you because they see you so happy. Don't worry about them. You have figured things out, and can deal with it how ever you need to.

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, smackie9 said:

Your family are no dummies. They probably question it as well, but won't say anything to you because they see you so happy. Don't worry about them. You have figured things out, and can deal with it how ever you need to.

I was about to say the same thing. 

 

They have likely had their concerns about this but wanted to be happy for you. I am sure they will be somewhat relieved when you reveal that it didn't work out, because I can't imagine that they didn't also see the red flags here and hoped you eventually would, too. 

 

You will be okay, OP. Just don't get wrapped up in a fantasy next time. Slow things down and get to know the woman. A woman willing to zoom from one relationship directly into the next and make grandiose proclamations of love is a woman who has some serious emotional immaturity issues among many other concerning traits. You need to learn to look past the flashy surface and dig a lot deeper to understand the person you are dealing with. 

[maybeThen]

16 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I was about to say the same thing. 

 

They have likely had their concerns about this but wanted to be happy for you. I am sure they will be somewhat relieved when you reveal that it didn't work out, because I can't imagine that they didn't also see the red flags here and hoped you eventually would, too. 

 

That's another mind f*** for me, I feel like everyone was in on this except me. Like I was a character in a video game and they all knew I would fail the level, but no one said anything. But I guess you never really know, it's not like my friends and family knew the entire backstory, but I guess if I saw a young hot woman with a fat old man I would raise an eyebrow too. And I am sure the public social media "PDA" was eye-brow raising for most people.

 

 

16 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You will be okay, OP. Just don't get wrapped up in a fantasy next time. Slow things down and get to know the woman. A woman willing to zoom from one relationship directly into the next and make grandiose proclamations of love is a woman who has some serious emotional immaturity issues among many other concerning traits. You need to learn to look past the flashy surface and dig a lot deeper to understand the person you are dealing with. 

Yes, thank you. This was my fault as well. She was flirty and begging for affection, but I am the one who said things like, "I believe the universe brought us together" and said I saw signs of us being together. I was the one who said "I love you" on day 5, not her. I was the one who lured her back with a paid vacation. She went along with everything. I think she knew I was old and lonely and would be the perfect person to extract affection from. But I knew she was lonely too, and I also wanted that affection. I think we both played on one another's loneliness, the difference is, I think she was in control and knew it was short-term, whereas I really thought we were in love. She was going along with everything and saying things back to me, and seemed to genuinely be into it. It's a process to accept that this was a lot of fantasy and illusion and doesn't really seem to have a base on reality. I have not told anyone that I am figuring this out yet. I think I will let it go on until she pulls the plug. I am assuming it will taper off, as opposed to just being over one day.

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, maybeThen said:

That's another mind f*** for me, I feel like everyone was in on this except me. Like I was a character in a video game and they all knew I would fail the level, but no one said anything. 

It's not that anyone was "in on it," OP.

 

They likely assume that at your age, you are capable of making your own choices - even if they are choices they might not agree with. This wasn't some sort of conspiracy to watch you fall. And really, would you have listened with an open mind had any of them come to you with their concerns about all of this? 

[maybeThen]

14 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

And really, would you have listened with an open mind had any of them come to you with their concerns about all of this? 

Probably not, because I was so mystified and wrapped up in it. I couldn't see how crazy and desperate it all ways, even to the point of my interpreting her message as wanting to be with me when she told me, "I cant make any promises," but told her ex, "I want to try again when I am not angry and hope we work out."  My mind was somehow able to convince myself it all pointed to me ending up with her, and that I admit is terrifying. I read the text now, with a much more clear mind, and it's obvious I am just a short-term fling. But at least I got to feel alive, and made her feel alive as well.

One concept I struggle with in releasing it all is this: I posted and everyone said it sounds like she wants her ex back. Now, I agree with that and it's obvious to me. But I bet if it were him who posted here, and not me, and his post said, "My exgirlfriend claims she wants to eventually get back with me, but she flew to visit another man, does she really want me back?" everyone would have told him, "She left you for the other guy, get over her, if she wanted you she'd be with you." etc.  But because I was the one who was telling the story, no one said she left him for me, just the opposite.  That stumps my brain from processing this all. I feel like the one who tells the story is the one who gets the negative outcome.

Edited December 17, 2019 by maybeThen

[ExpatInItaly]

12 minutes ago, maybeThen said:

But I bet if it were him who posted here, and not me, and his post said, "My exgirlfriend claims she wants to eventually get back with me, but she flew to visit another man, does she really want me back?" everyone would have told him, "She left you for the other guy, get over her, if she wanted you she'd be with you." etc.  But because I was the one who was telling the story, no one said she left him for me, just the opposite.  That stumps my brain from processing this all. I feel like the one who tells the story is the one who gets the negative outcome.

Honestly, you'd probably have people telling you that you were better off without someone who bounces so quickly between men like she does. 

 

Even if her ex weren't in the picture, this had very little chance of lasting. The logistics and impulsive undertone to the whole relationship do not formulate the foundation for something sustainable and long-term. 

[maybeThen]

17 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Honestly, you'd probably have people telling you that you were better off without someone who bounces so quickly between men like she does. 

 

Yes, I guess that's so. I was embarrassed to admit this but I mentioned earlier that I had poked around some and found those photos of her and her ex. I was reading the comments and someone said something to the tune of it being surprising to see them together and asking if they were over because she had photos of her and a new guy (me) posted on her account. And she said something to the tune of it just has been nice to take a break from the drama for awhile with her ex, and share photos (of me and her) and have people react, and feel loved. And the biggie, in reference to me, "I'm not saying I want those things with him, but I was looking for that and enjoy the feeling."  I guess she thought I would never poke around, or she didn't remember posting it, or didn't think of the potential consequences.  It's embarrassing to admit that, but this is an anonymous platform so I may as well get it off of my chest!

 

Quote

Even if her ex weren't in the picture, this had very little chance of lasting. The logistics and impulsive undertone to the whole relationship do not formulate the foundation for something sustainable and long-term. 

This is true, I just have to remember this, and everything I discovered, and move on. It's no wonder people love fantasy movies, they are sometimes better than reality. But I have to take my part of the responsibility here as well. I acted foolishly by telling this woman there were "signs" and that I "loved her" days into meeting her.  She probably thought I was a bit manipulative too and figured she'd just enjoy the ride.

Edited December 17, 2019 by maybeThen

[preraph]

When two people are living in two separate fantasy worlds and just feeding each other's fantasy worlds, it's easy to get carried away.  It's good you are able to see what was really going on now.  

 

Your family were just trying to support you, that's all.