max3732 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 Fortunately I've been able to go on several 1st and 2nd dates the past few months so I think I'm getting better at the 1st dates, as evidenced by a few 2nd ones. I've got a date coming up with a woman that seems almost too good to be true and this past week it's been in the back of my mind and I feel really nervous. She's extremely pretty and has the look that is exactly what I've been trying to find for a while. The last date I went on with someone that looked like her the woman acted like she was angry with me from the 1st moment and it didn't go well at all. With this woman I think in my 1st date with her I had no expectations and was just thinking about enjoying the meal and gaining experience dealing with women from the date. Instead she looked just like her picture and even more importantly was just the way she described in her profile. Educated, variety of interests, and just an upbeat, happy person that I could see myself spending time with. At the end of the date she even said she wanted to see me again and I setup our 2nd date shortly thereafter. Since then I find myself looking at her profile over and over and have been getting ahead of myself imagining doing all these different things with her. To get me even more nervous she's sent me a few messaging saying how excited she is to see me again. I just don't want to set myself up to fail. I think I do better when I don't care, so I'm afraid I'm going to go back to being still and cautious in the date. In the 1st date I didn't do much as far as touching other than when I greeted and said goodbye with a hug. I've been watching youtube videos about touch during a date/flirting and trying to figure out how to behave. We are going to an outdoor area with Christmas lights and different shows and I'm picking her up and dropping her off. Any tips on how I can settle down and also for the date? 1
Zinging Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 I had no expectations and was just thinking about enjoying the meal and gaining experience dealing with women from the date. You have the answer in your post. This is why it clicked. This what you must continue to do. Rather than going with expectations of finding romantic interest - go with the mindest of looking to have a good time with a lady-friend. If the anxiety is not settling you can picture her like someone you've already known for a while to get rid of the first-time nerves. A tip to keep the conversation alive: If there's some area of interest of hers that fascinates you, but you don't have enough knowledge about, you can spend a short while reading up on it (if you have the time). Or maybe just a quick browse-through on current events in your corner of the world. That way, if there are any empty pauses, you have enough ammo to fire-up the conversation once again. Do not continually check her profile and photos (at least not until you both are officially an item), because it flames your fantasy. Any new update from her end will become a sort of a dopamine-high, building-up a false sense of closeness in your head. And if for some reason it doesn't work out, it'll hurt more. Plus, you'll end up comparing her to subsequent dates and find yourself disheartened. If she gives you cues (other than verbal) - long gazes, playing with her hair, touching your arm, leaning in, standing/sitting in close proximity, you can try to see if she'd be receptive to kiss. Hope it goes well. Keep us updated. 2
alphamale Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 what would I do? i'd have a shot of tequila before I left to pick her up. oh, and stop looking at her website and stop masturbating to her pics (I know you're doing it) 1
d0nnivain Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 You have to get her off this pedestal you have put her on. She's just a woman. She has feelings & fears. She puts her pants on one leg at a time just like you do. Forget EVERYTHING you saw in those videos. Just go with the flow. Talk to her. Make eye contact. Listen when she speaks. Hear her & be interested in what she has to say. If you kissed good bye last time, kiss hello. If you didn't kiss good bye, still give her a peck on the cheek hello. Be gracious & cordial. Take hand or offer her your arm as you walk. Hold open doors for her. Follow her lead as far the rest of the touching throughout the date goes but do try to kiss her good bye. 3
preraph Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 You may love the way she looks, but you still don't know who she is, so stop thinking about how she looks and start thinking about just getting to know her. You'll have plenty of opportunity where you're going to briefly put your hand on her back to guide her off to the side of where you're walking or something like that. And you can kiss her goodnight when you drop her off. Don't overdo it or have expectations afterward. Just say goodnight and medium kiss on the mouth. 2
d0nnivain Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 wtf is a "medium kiss" preraph? I'm just guessing but more then a peck & less then full on tonsil hockey. Should last more then 10 seconds. 1
preraph Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 ^ Right. More than a peck, a nice lip kiss, but don't stick your tongue down her throat yet. I'd keep it fairly short. A polite but not lifeless kiss. 1
Versacehottie Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 Zinging has the answer--you have to approach it like you did last time: like low to no expectations, and the only goal is to have a good time. After all, it's how you are spending your evening so no matter what you want the time to be fun. Also I think it's good to give a good & fun impression so that the power of choice is yours really. Anyway, it's one of the few times I like to think where dating IS or should be like a job interview: you put your best foot forward so you can have the choice of if you want the job or not. The difference being how you put your best foot forward on a date and an interview differ greatly. Anyway, it's the opposite of stiff, forced, trying too hard. Just show that you are fun to be with. I think show that you have depth if the conversation goes there. Lots of girls like that. Sounds like she is excited to see you--i'd warn you also of building her up by imagining who she is by continuous looking at her profile etc. You can set yourself up for a "disappointment" only because you've conjured up a false impression rather than letting it unfold naturally with who she really is. Also you've jumped too far into the future with thinking she's pretty close to perfect/putting her on a pedestal which just makes you nervous and anxious. She's there on the second date. As far as dating goes and at the point you are both at, you are EQUALS remember that. You have stuff to learn about her and vice versa. I'm going to say, you really can't go wrong with making sure she has FUN. Girls like as a generalization, guys that make them laugh, treat them well and with consideration, act curious about her life and don't shy away from being yourself--which shows confidence (doesn't matter if it's quiet confidence). One of the reasons self-deprecation often works is because it shows the other person that you are quite confident of yourself, enough so to make fun of yourself. It's like reverse complimenting yourself I'm not suggesting that you do that if you don't feel confident about doing it--you don't want to look like you are fishing for compliments which it is a fine line. Anyway try not to put absolutes on "who she is"--it ups the stakes and your anxiety. Is she pretty? Yes, but so are tons of other girls. Is she educated, good personality and seemingly into you? Yes, but it won't be the last person you meet like this. What do you want to happen with this date? You are not sure other than having fun. These things should make up your mindset. Good luck 2
alphamale Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 A polite but not lifeless kiss. a kiss should never be polite
d0nnivain Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 10 seconds?? wtf I said MORE then 10 seconds, as opposed to a quick peck
Mr. Lucky Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 She's extremely pretty and has the look that is exactly what I've been trying to find for a while. You’re screening for something that has nothing to do with connection, compatibility or happiness. Flawed approach... Mr. Lucky 1
Author max3732 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Posted December 1, 2019 You have to get her off this pedestal you have put her on. She's just a woman. She has feelings & fears. She puts her pants on one leg at a time just like you do. Forget EVERYTHING you saw in those videos. Just go with the flow. Talk to her. Make eye contact. Listen when she speaks. Hear her & be interested in what she has to say. If you kissed good bye last time, kiss hello. If you didn't kiss good bye, still give her a peck on the cheek hello. Be gracious & cordial. Take hand or offer her your arm as you walk. Hold open doors for her. Follow her lead as far the rest of the touching throughout the date goes but do try to kiss her good bye. This morning I woke up feeling more relaxed than when I posted this. I think reading the responses helped me to calm down a bit. We're going to be doing a lot of walking with a lot of different things to see so hopefully there will be plenty of opportunities for taking her hand or other kind of contact like that. I've never tried taking a date's hand or offering my arm before. How do I do that? Just reach out and take her hand or stick my elbow out to offer my arm? Do I need to say anything first, like "shall we" or "let's go look at that"? Something else I'd love to do is be able to sit down and put my arm around her with her head resting against me. I've seen couples do this all the time and I'd really enjoy that. I'm guessing that would be appropriate to try on a 2nd date? My focus will be on making the evening fun for both of us and showing my personality, but I want to have these physical goals kind of in the back of my mind. They don't come natural to me at all so I have to force myself to try and recognize the opportunities and take a chance with it.
Author max3732 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Posted December 1, 2019 You’re screening for something that has nothing to do with connection, compatibility or happiness. Flawed approach... Mr. Lucky Obviously that's not the only screen that I have. My main goal is a connection and comparability and I'm willing to consider women that don't have this kind of look. She doesn't look like a Victoria's Secret model or anything, but more of a wholesome, girl next door type look. Like you see in some of the Hallmark Christmas movies. I just normally can't find anyone like that.
Author max3732 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Posted December 1, 2019 I said MORE then 10 seconds, as opposed to a quick peck It's been about 10 years since my last kiss. If the moment feels right and I go for it is it a problem if I just did a quick peck? I'd imagine I would probably be shaking and ready for her to spray me with mace so I don't know how long I'll be able to hold it. Maybe just like 3 seconds?
Zinging Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) I know you posed this question to Donnivan, and she might have her own valuable input to offer too... but, just chiming in as a couple of pointers struck me... 1) Offer your palm - literally just place your palm in a casual manner in front of her, with a smile. "Wanna?" If she accepts, there you are, holding hands. Woohoo! If she frowns, acts confused and then accepts, you know she wasn't expecting it but being polite in accepting your hand. I'd suggest dropping all ideas of other physical intimacy if this happens for the evening. She might need a little more time to warm up to you, physically. If she flatly refuses "not feeling it." You've got your answer. 2) The Hallmark-card pose of head-resting-on-shoulder has to happen organically. Or, if one of the daters is super comfortable in their approach. Max, I'm afraid you're building a lot of images in your mind's eye already... I might be wrong but the head-on-shoulder feels like something that happens between 2 people who know each other for a little while. 3) Personally, I wouldnt be too comfortable with a man having his arm around my shoulder for a long time - not within the first/second hour of having met him. Since it brings two people really close and in many cases, you can't come out of this pose without it making it seem like things are getting awkward. Take it a step at a time. Maybe just have the hand-holding goal for today. A peck if she's receptive. Also, do be prepared for things not going as planned, so you're not left disheartened at the end of it. Best of luck. Edited December 1, 2019 by Zinging 2
spiritedaway2003 Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 2) The Hallmark-card pose of head-resting-on-shoulder has to happen organically. Or, if one of the daters is super comfortable in their approach. Max, I'm afraid you're building a lot of images in your mind's eye already... I might be wrong but the head-on-shoulder feels like something that happens between 2 people who know each other for a little while. Funny - this reminded me of something I saw once with two college aged students. They were walking and this girl wanted to pull in close to the guy by leaning her head to a guy's shoulder. He didn't appear to like her that way, saw what was coming, and he PULLED away. The girl tried to recover and said something like, "Don't you like me as a friend?" It was awkward. I just smiled politely at them, thinking how things don't work the way you normally see in Hollywood films. OP, my advice - don't overthink it. Just focus on enjoying the time spent together and see where it goes. Good luck. 1
Zinging Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 Funny - this reminded me of something I saw once with two college aged students. They were walking and this girl wanted to pull in close to the guy by leaning her head to a guy's shoulder. He didn't appear to like her that way, saw what was coming, and he PULLED away. The girl tried to recover and said something like, "Don't you like me as a friend?" It was awkward. I just smiled politely at them, thinking how things don't work the way you normally see in Hollywood films. OP, my advice - don't overthink it. Just focus on enjoying the time spent together and see where it goes. Good luck. Ouch.... I can imagine... I guess for those to whom it comes naturally, this sorta scene wouldn't even be an afterthought... And to whom it doesn't, it can be a reason for great anxiety.
d0nnivain Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) This morning I woke up feeling more relaxed than when I posted this. I think reading the responses helped me to calm down a bit. We're going to be doing a lot of walking with a lot of different things to see so hopefully there will be plenty of opportunities for taking her hand or other kind of contact like that. I've never tried taking a date's hand or offering my arm before. How do I do that? Just reach out and take her hand or stick my elbow out to offer my arm? Do I need to say anything first, like "shall we" or "let's go look at that"? Something else I'd love to do is be able to sit down and put my arm around her with her head resting against me. I've seen couples do this all the time and I'd really enjoy that. I'm guessing that would be appropriate to try on a 2nd date? Offering her your hand palm up as Zinging suggested is a good idea. Or as you are walking, with your hands swinging at your sides, brush the back of your hand against hers. If she doesn't jerk away, gently take her hand, then hold your joined hands up & say is this OK. Putting your arm around her is OK but her resting her head on your shoulder can be uncomfortable for her. She has to want to sit like that; you can't force her. It's been about 10 years since my last kiss. If the moment feels right and I go for it is it a problem if I just did a quick peck? I'd imagine I would probably be shaking and ready for her to spray me with mace so I don't know how long I'll be able to hold it. Maybe just like 3 seconds? Do what feels natural & appropriate to you. Edited December 1, 2019 by d0nnivain 1
Author max3732 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Posted December 1, 2019 Offering her your hand palm up as Zinging suggested is a good idea. Or as you are walking, with your hands swinging at your sides, brush the back of your hand against hers. If she doesn't jerk away, gently take her hand, then hold your joined hands up & say is this OK. Putting your arm around her is OK but her resting her head on your shoulder can be uncomfortable for her. She has to want to sit like that; you can't force her. Do what feels natural & appropriate to you. Thank you all so much! I'm going to try and be spontaneous so I don't come across as still while I'm trying to plan my next move, but my general idea is to take her hand to help her out of the car and then if I see something interesting I want to bring her towards while we're walking around I'll either take her hand or put my hand on her back to guide her. There are a number of benches and we're going to get food so I can imagine sitting side by side. Just to clarify, putting my arm around her is ok, but just don't try to force her head against me? I've never put my arm around someone on a date either so just doing that would be a big step. Mainly I want to focus on both of us having fun and getting to know each other, so I'm going to try for all these physical contacts, but not obsess over them as I have in the past.
alphamale Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 just relax and have fun man, don't pre-plan sh*t 2
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 . Mainly I want to focus on both of us having fun and getting to know each other, so I'm going to try for all these physical contacts, but not obsess over them as I have in the past. Just focus on the first part and forget about the second. I suspect that the reason you don't get a lot of third dates is because you're concentrating too hard on trying to make things happen instead of just focusing on the your date and getting to know her. She's not a prop there to fulfill your physical needs. Get to know her as a human being. 2
Versacehottie Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) You've gotten good advice about the hand holding. You just let your hands bump a few times and if she is not jerking it away or overly "sorry" then she's probably receptive. A relaxed vibe in general helps with all of this. Think about it: someone stiff and walking precisely doesn't get a chance to bump into the other person. If you both are kind of giddy and drunk in love type way, bumping into each other is more natural. I would say use the ambiance of the place you are going! That's why the choice of a place IS important. It can either move the date along or stifle it, unless a person is so suave at dating or the chemistry is insane, the place can help out. I think the choice you've picked is great--you just need to utilize it. I was going to say about having her take your arm--most guys just stick out a bent elbow--it would usually work if you guys are navigating through a crowded area (same type of moment to put hand on her back to guide her or grab her hand "so you don't lose each other); it would also work if you were going up or down hilly terrain or a slippery area. Try to think of it less as making "romantic" and "physical" progress but more like being a leader/gentleman. That should help your nerves and is the right thing to do, no matter whether you are friends or dating--haha well think of it like that---not all my guy friends do this but many do-- the savvy, gentlemen type do in a crowded place. If she doesn't take it, no big deal. Just think of yourself as a guy with good manners. Ok about the head on your shoulder thing. Idk, think it might be a little much for this date, considering your progress physically thus far (i.e. very little). You could put your arm around her sitting side by side if she is cold or if it is cold or for a brief moment during the genuine right moment conversationally. I think unless she is overly affectionate or you've created that vibe emotionally, that her leaning her head on your shoulder will happen but when the emotional connection is stronger. If you think about it, that's what it signifies, that she feels protected by you and need "some" support of some sorts. At this point for the two of you, the most logical "protection" she would need is from the cold or if she will getting sleepy or you guys are looking up at lights or stars. So anyway you could do the first part: arm around shoulder but it will take her to put her head down of her own accord. BTW, not at all weird that you are hoping for this: biologically this is something that guys (and girls i suppose) are programmed to want from past--must have a animal component. Don't know where i got this information but I am sure that it's reliable. Anyway, it will come in time. Just have fun like you are planning to do. Good luck Edited December 1, 2019 by Versacehottie
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