I don't understand why "dating" is such a normal thing for most people

[Inflikted]

Tinder and on-line dating apps are not "Meeting someone naturally" and you tried those avenues (repeatedly).

 

Yeah, though I didn't like doing that either, and I did it more out of desperation and extreme loneliness, and a hope that maybe I'd at least be pleasantly surprised if anyone found me appealing enough to talk to me. Which, they didn't. To be honest, all the times I've tried it (and I'm sure I'll eventually get desperate enough to try it again) actually ended up making me feel worse about myself than I did before I tried it.

 

Have some canned questions ready, favorite author, best recent book you've read, best place you've had Italian food. Just don't use the same old "what do you do for work" & "what do you do with your free time" questions. You want to be unique and stand out from the crowd.

 

And therein lies one of my biggest anxieties, the fact that I'm not "unique" or clever or interesting in any way, the fact that I don't stand out in any kind of positive way, the fact that I'm about as vanilla and milquetoast as they come.

[Happy Lemming]

... the fact that I'm not "unique" or clever or interesting in any way...

 

This is exactly why you do research and prepare, before you attend an event. Research some authors, points of interest in your area, etc. Make sure you have some "ready to go" questions and answers so you are not "vanilla".

[Garcon1986]

Yeah, though I didn't like doing that either, and I did it more out of desperation and extreme loneliness, and a hope that maybe I'd at least be pleasantly surprised if anyone found me appealing enough to talk to me. Which, they didn't. To be honest, all the times I've tried it (and I'm sure I'll eventually get desperate enough to try it again) actually ended up making me feel worse about myself than I did before I tried it.

 

 

 

And therein lies one of my biggest anxieties, the fact that I'm not "unique" or clever or interesting in any way, the fact that I don't stand out in any kind of positive way, the fact that I'm about as vanilla and milquetoast as they come.

 

99% of Bible Belt women fall in that category too. They still manage to have great dates. This is the point of showing genuine interest in another person's interests. Let the woman talk to you about what she is interested in. For example - ask a woman to tell you about how she adores horses.

 

In reality are you anxious/ depressed to the clinical level or do you have any medical conditions holding you back?

[Inflikted]

Inflikted, exercise should be a priority whether you are looking for a woman or not. There are hundreds of different sports you could do, why not start browsing the list?

 

I can respect that, I've just never been into anything athletic like that.

 

You might think you look bad but you can get a better haircut and better attire.

 

I guess? I dunno, I think I'm mostly just awkward and goofy looking by nature, I can't really see clothes or a slight change in hair style making a noticeable difference for me.

 

You are bound to find women to at least chat with who have done one of the things you have done. Did you ever do gaming? Consider meeting fellow gamers?

 

I guess it's just never been something I care about bonding with people over, yanno? I enjoy playing stuff to pass the time, but it's not necessarily something I expect to be able to share with someone else. I also don't really know what it would mean to try to meet other gamers; most groups and whatnot are more based on competitive or cooperative games, and I don't really get into those because I'm not very good at them.

 

Next, if you are this apathetic about the entire world, do you actually have anxiety/ depression/ hypothyroidism/ anemia/ something related ? Have you seen a doctor about this?

 

No, but I'm more just talking about the idea of "attraction" when I talk about being neutral or indifferent. I don't see a random woman from across a room and think "Ooh, I want to go talk to her". It takes a bit more for me to "notice" people, is really all I mean. Heck, the girl I was obsessed with many years ago, I knew her for about a year before it occurred to me that I wanted to date her.

[Garcon1986]

I can respect that, I've just never been into anything athletic like that.

 

 

 

I guess? I dunno, I think I'm mostly just awkward and goofy looking by nature, I can't really see clothes or a slight change in hair style making a noticeable difference for me.

 

 

 

I guess it's just never been something I care about bonding with people over, yanno? I enjoy playing stuff to pass the time, but it's not necessarily something I expect to be able to share with someone else. I also don't really know what it would mean to try to meet other gamers; most groups and whatnot are more based on competitive or cooperative games, and I don't really get into those because I'm not very good at them.

 

 

 

No, but I'm more just talking about the idea of "attraction" when I talk about being neutral or indifferent. I don't see a random woman from across a room and think "Ooh, I want to go talk to her". It takes a bit more for me to "notice" people, is really all I mean. Heck, the girl I was obsessed with many years ago, I knew her for about a year before it occurred to me that I wanted to date her.

 

You are hiding something from us, it is impossible that you have no interests. What do you like to do on your spare time? Come on man it is impossible that nothing puts a smile on your face apart from seeing pornography.

 

Gamers come at different skill levels. If all gamers were experts, these gaming conventions would not be very interesting.

[Inflikted]

This is exactly why you do research and prepare, before you attend an event. Research some authors, points of interest in your area, etc. Make sure you have some "ready to go" questions and answers so you are not "vanilla".

 

That's my problem, though. I can research things, and I can observe and study people and basic human behaviors, and I can collect all this knowledge, but when I'm actually in the moment, my mind basically goes blank, and I forget all of it.

 

In any case, I'm afraid being bland and vanilla and milquetoast is kind of who I am at my core. And I'm very keenly aware of that, hence why I get anxiety about it, because I don't like being so "blah", but I don't know how not to be that.

 

99% of Bible Belt women fall in that category too. They still manage to have great dates. This is the point of showing genuine interest in another person's interests. Let the woman talk to you about what she is interested in. For example - ask a woman to tell you about how she adores horses.

 

I don't think I'd lack an interest, I simply don't understand how to properly express that interest and facilitate conversations, and whatnot.

 

In reality are you anxious/ depressed to the clinical level or do you have any medical conditions holding you back?

 

Nothing medical that I'm aware of, no. I suppose if it really came down to it, my anxieties generally stem from an overall feeling of inferiority, and the fact that I'm self aware of said "inferiority". That I'm bland and uninteresting and socially inept and physically unattractive, and so on. I'm those things, and I KNOW I'm those things, and it causes me anxiety because I don't want to be those things but don't know how to not be those things.

[Garcon1986]

The way you get out of the rut is to replicate the conversations you've had with your one female friend with other women you don't know. You locate such women by going to social events containing activities you enjoy. Example conversation:

 

1 - Hi nice to meet you, my name is Inflikted.

2 - Hi nice to meet you, my name is Ella.

3 - How did you find out about this meeting Ella?

4 - I heard about it online.

5 - So how did you get interested in cosplay Ella?

6 - Tell me about some of your favorite games?

 

Is it so hard for you to start a conversation such as this in a social event? You are not helping yourself one bit by waffling on this forum.

[Inflikted]

You are hiding something from us, it is impossible that you have no interests. What do you like to do on your spare time? Come on man it is impossible that nothing puts a smile on your face apart from seeing pornography.

 

Not hiding anything, no, I'm just that boring, I'm afraid. My free time is spent either watching shows/ movies, gaming, and hanging with my friends, and that's pretty much it.

 

Also, I assume you're just joking, but for what it's worth, I haven't watched porn regularly in I don't even know how long.

 

Gamers come at different skill levels. If all gamers were experts, these gaming conventions would not be very interesting.

 

I guess I just mean that the aspects of gaming that fuel conventions or even just groups aren't really that aspects of gaming that interest me. Does that make sense?

 

Is it so hard for you to start a conversation such as this in a social event? You are not helping yourself one bit by waffling on this forum.

 

Apparently that is hard for me, yes. Like I said, when I'm actually "in the moment", it's like my mind just goes completely blank, and any research or preparation or words of wisdom I may have put together beforehand just fall right out of my head.

 

As for my friend, in fairness, she did most of the "heavy lifting" in the beginning. She and I used to work closely together, and she, being someone who's a bit more social, kind of insisted we get to know each other, and the more she shared about herself, the more I realized I enjoyed her company, and I loosened up around her more and more. I wish I could say I had more to do with us becoming friends, but yeah, that was mostly her.

[Garcon1986]

Shows, movies, and gaming are things that millions of Americans talk about every night.

 

Why do you still refuse to start a conversation with someone new about these things?

 

Shows, movies, and gaming are things that can be talked about. I assure you there are women interested in those things because I've met them. You are actively whittling your life away and wasting it consciously.

 

To have no social skills as a 40 year old is not effing acceptable in any reasonably attractive woman's eyes unless you have a diagnosed psychologic or developmental issue like autism or Aspergers.

 

The older you get the more women expect of you. Start now! We only get one life dude, why are you actively making a conscious decision to waste it? Even the Sun only gets one life man.

 

You need to start small by practicing not "freezing like a deer in the headlights".

[haikss3]

Well you know what happens when you doing what you are doing. So why not try diferent route, do something new in life?

[Trail Blazer]

I agree with others that you need to start small, and build up to things. The reason why dating is "such a normal thing for most people" is because most people don't have nearly as many hurdles to overcome as you do.

 

I'm not going to insult your intelligence and pretend that you don't have many factors working against you. But what I will say, what I always tell myself, is to focus on the areas of life I can control and hope that the areas that I can't control become less significant.

 

Speed dating would be great just to practice talking to women. You need to just involve yourself in activities which will promote improvement. Start slow, don't have expectations other than to grow and improve. Just try to become more comfortable and natural talking to women.

[balletomane]

I agree with Trail Blazer. OP, I'm autistic. I think it is easier for me as a woman to find a partner than it would be for a man with my difficulties...but that doesn't mean that those partners are necessarily going to be good. When I was in my twenties, I ended up in a violent abusive relationship, and looking back, I think that man targeted me precisely because I was inexperienced in relationships and consequently more naïve/uncertain about what is and isn't normal behavior. I've been recovering from PTSD ever since.

 

For a few years after the abuse, I used to say, as you are saying, that a relationship was something that would never happen for me. I just couldn't picture it. I'm a doctor in a demanding specialty, and it used to frustrate me so much that I could be capable in my professional life but have these struggles in my romantic life. I have good friends, so it's not as if I'm without opportunities to socialize, but I felt like my emotional development was lopsided in this one respect and that I'd missed my chance to learn. This made me even more reluctant to try dating.

 

Then I decided, with the support of my therapist, to give Bumble a try. I liked this app because women have to message first, which made me feel more secure. And I started talking to a 30-year-old man with an interesting profile. Well-read, well-educated, sharp sense of humour. On our first date, to our amusement, it turned out that he's on the spectrum too. I was trying my best to make good eye contact (these social skills are something I learned in med school, but I have to consciously remind myself to deploy them) and his own wasn't great. That and a few other cues made me ask him, "This might be a weird question, but are you autistic?" His reply: "How did you know?!" That really broke the ice. One date turned into two, which turned into three...and on the fourth date he told me that he hasn't had a relationship before and he's feeling nervous. There was I thinking I was brave for going on dating apps after PTSD, but I think he was equally brave to keep on trying to find someone. It would have been so easy for him to just give up.

 

Obviously I can't know if you'll ever find someone. Some people don't. I don't have a crystal ball. But one thing is clear: if you don't keep trying, you definitely won't. If you do try, you're at least in with a chance. It might be worth looking into some therapy, as I notice a lot of unhelpful thought patterns in your posts that might be tripping you up. My own therapy was extremely useful for me in addressing my past difficulties with trauma and learning to approach my goals in a constructive way.

[OatsAndHall]

Dating is "normal" for most people because many people are extremely social. Many people need to a lot of social contact with others and that lends itself to the dating world in two ways.

 

 

 

Firstly, they're adept at handling social situations and conversing with people so going out on a date is simply an extension of their social lives. Secondly, they have more social connections which leads to meeting more people and having more dates. The two factors intertwine and dating is just a natural part of their lives.

 

 

 

 

 

If someone is introverted and not overly social, then dating can be extremely daunting and nerve wracking. There's nothing wrong with being an introvert but developing a broader social circle and honing social and conversational skills are a necessity if one wants to date without it being awkward.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am not going to sugarcoat this. At 5'1" and being socially awkward, you only have few options:

 

While many very short women like really tall men, there is a decent number that will still date someone taller than them. At your height, you can pretty much only go Asians. If you are white - you will be of even more value to them.

 

You can also investigate price and options of bringing an Asian bride out of one of 3rd world countries. Women fall in love differently to men: once she has a few kids and you treat her well, she will eventually love you.

 

Third option is to look around for women in late 30s and early 40s desperate for children. Panic and evolutionary instincts overtake all rational thought. There are some specialized dating sites to cater to those women. You better be ready to have a child ASAP though.

[Happy Lemming]

Speed dating would be great just to practice talking to women... Just try to become more comfortable and natural talking to women.

 

To expand upon this... Some "Speed Dating" coordinators offer "coaching" prior to the event. You'll be able to get some pointers and practice prior to the actual "Speed Dating" event.

 

This might be worth looking into, as well.

[balletomane]

I am not going to sugarcoat this. At 5'1" and being socially awkward, you only have few options:

 

While many very short women like really tall men, there is a decent number that will still date someone taller than them. At your height, you can pretty much only go Asians. If you are white - you will be of even more value to them.

 

Even though there's social prejudice against it, some women will date men who are shorter than them. One of my friends is 5'9" and she's married to a guy who's 5'3". They've been teased over it, but they don't care. Why would they when they're happy and they're celebrating their tenth wedding anniversary next year.

 

It will be more challenging for OP to find a partner, you're right, but it's certainly not impossible. I don't think cementing his beliefs that everything is stacked against him is going to help his case any more than sugar-coating is.

[Inflikted]

Shows, movies, and gaming are things that millions of Americans talk about every night.

 

Why do you still refuse to start a conversation with someone new about these things?

 

To be honest, in my experience, people aren't particularly interested in my interests or opinions on things. That's how it was with all the people I knew in my late teens and over my 20s. Whenever I tried to share my interests, nobody was interested. After a while, I eventually came to the conclusion of "Okay, whatever, people aren't interested in me, guess I just have to live in my own little world". Even now, I tend not to share much about myself with other people out in the real world, not because I'm trying to "hide" anything, but because I just automatically assume no one cares nor has the interest in me, so what's the point? Thankfully, I don't get that vibe from my current friends, but even still, I generally don't volunteer information about myself unless they ask specific questions, because of my "No one is interested" mentality.

 

You need to start small by practicing not "freezing like a deer in the headlights".

 

Well you know what happens when you doing what you are doing. So why not try diferent route, do something new in life?

 

You need to just involve yourself in activities which will promote improvement. Start slow, don't have expectations other than to grow and improve. Just try to become more comfortable and natural talking to women.

 

That's the thing, though, I've had plenty of opportunity to learn and practice for 10+ years through my 20s, via work and school. And I tried really hard. I put a ton of pressure on myself. I would constantly try to observe the behaviors of "socially successful" people and learn from it, but I just couldn't ever actually apply any of it to my own interactions with people.

 

So I guess I just wonder, even if I could figure out how to "get out there" more, why would it be different this time than the 10+ years I spent trying and failing to get better at socializing? I harbor a lot of frustration from my lack of improvement over that time, and I don't have any faith in myself because of it.

 

Obviously I can't know if you'll ever find someone. Some people don't. I don't have a crystal ball. But one thing is clear: if you don't keep trying, you definitely won't. If you do try, you're at least in with a chance. It might be worth looking into some therapy, as I notice a lot of unhelpful thought patterns in your posts that might be tripping you up. My own therapy was extremely useful for me in addressing my past difficulties with trauma and learning to approach my goals in a constructive way.

 

Yeah, I suppose. I just... don't have faith in myself to properly absorb what you're supposed to absorb from therapy. And if I can't do that, then there's no point in wasting all the money it's going to cost, especially when I'm not exactly that well off, and I'm trying to save as much money as I can for a place to live. Considering the kind of person I know I am, that'd basically be like flushing money down the toilet for me.

 

I am not going to sugarcoat this. At 5'1" and being socially awkward, you only have few options:

 

Yeah, I figured. :/

 

You can also investigate price and options of bringing an Asian bride out of one of 3rd world countries. Women fall in love differently to men: once she has a few kids and you treat her well, she will eventually love you.

 

I can't imagine that would actually make me feel good about myself. I don't want to "buy" someone to love me, I want someone to love me for me. But, I suppose I'm just not worth "loving".

 

Third option is to look around for women in late 30s and early 40s desperate for children. Panic and evolutionary instincts overtake all rational thought. There are some specialized dating sites to cater to those women. You better be ready to have a child ASAP though.

 

As it stands, unless I managed to meet someone really amazing that totally changes my views on things, I'd currently prefer not to have children, so...

[The Outlaw]

I should take my own advice, but it only works if you put yourself out there in a social setting you're comfortable in and make yourself available. I haven't had a date in just over five years, but I'm also mostly content with being single. Dating isn't for everyone, it never has been and never will be. But you have to push forward and keep trying and see what's right for you.

[balletomane]

Yeah, I suppose. I just... don't have faith in myself to properly absorb what you're supposed to absorb from therapy. And if I can't do that, then there's no point in wasting all the money it's going to cost, especially when I'm not exactly that well off, and I'm trying to save as much money as I can for a place to live. Considering the kind of person I know I am, that'd basically be like flushing money down the toilet for me.

 

 

Lack of faith in yourself is a reason to go to therapy, not to avoid it. Here's a thought experiment for you. I've worked with a patient with such severe psychosis that when he met me he tried to attack me in the belief that I was a witch who was cursing him (because I had an owl on my sweater), and I've seen many others who needed two nursing aides at their side in the hospital at all times because their suicide attempts had been so bad, etc. I witnessed all of them making progress with their therapists. The guy with psychosis was barely recognizable as the same person when he was discharged. Back to the thought experiment: if therapy can help people with such an acute level of need as that, people who have had to be hospitalized for long periods and whose jobs and relationships have often completely broken down, what are the odds that it would do no good for you? Do you believe that you have bigger problems than those patients? You're going to have to challenge your beliefs about yourself to even come close to getting what you want. It will be uncomfortable, but it's a necessary thing.

[Inflikted]

if therapy can help people with such an acute level of need as that, people who have had to be hospitalized for long periods and whose jobs and relationships have often completely broken down, what are the odds that it would do no good for you? Do you believe that you have bigger problems than those patients? You're going to have to challenge your beliefs about yourself to even come close to getting what you want. It will be uncomfortable, but it's a necessary thing.

 

I wouldn't compare my own struggles to those of others. It's not for me to say who's problems are "bigger", and I would never try to assert that my stuff is "bigger" or "worse" than anyone else.

 

What I will say is that, from experience, I always end up disappointing myself and/ or letting myself down. I know me. That's what I do. I don't believe I could approach therapy with the right mindset, and I'm sure I would find plenty of ways to self-sabotage whatever methods any therapist would use. That's the thing with therapy; a therapist can only do so much for you, but you have to ultimately be able to take what they give you and apply it to your life. They can "guide" but they can't actually "do". They can't live my life for me. And that's why I don't expect therapy to "work", because I don't have faith that I can take someone's guidance and properly apply it to my life to bring about necessary change.

[Garcon1986]

Here are some examples of how a dating conversation might be different than a normal conversation.

 

You have been barking up the wrong tree for the past 10 years, it is no good to practice if you have had no guidance in how to practice the correct way.

 

Let’s say for example, that you are talking with a woman about a movie that you both like. The difference between a normal conversation and a dating conversation, is that in a dating conversation, you might do something like hold her hand firmly and rub her palm with your palm a little bit while looking in her eye and emphasizing some highlights of your conversation.

 

How are you might escalate with a woman, after seeing her safely home from the movies, is Rather than waving goodbye at the front door of the movie theater, offered to walk her home and offer to hold her hand the whole way. That is one of the differences between seeing a friend away and seeing a potential date safely home.

 

If you and another person were at a restaurant flirting, that might involve smiling a little longer, looking at the woman a little longer, or talking about observations you both made about the restaurant.

 

Do you understand why I brought up these examples, or do these feel like completely alien observations to you, and that you might as well be speaking with ET?

[Trail Blazer]

I agree with Trail Blazer. OP, I'm autistic. I think it is easier for me as a woman to find a partner than it would be for a man with my difficulties...

That's a fantastic story! What became of this? Are you guys in a relationship now?

[Inflikted]

Do you understand why I brought up these examples, or do these feel like completely alien observations to you, and that you might as well be speaking with ET?

 

I mean, I hear the examples you're giving, I just feel like I'd not think to do that kind of thing were I actually in the moment. Granted, I've never been in that moment to begin with, so...

[Garcon1986]

Well you can start practicing the right way or be at peace with yourself. For the nth time, waffling does you no favors.

[balletomane]

That's a fantastic story! What became of this? Are you guys in a relationship now?

 

We've only been dating for five weeks, but everything seems to be pointing in that direction, yes.