Am I in Love? I Can't Tell...

[lakerman34]

Hi All,

 

LONG time since I've been on this site, so I'm just looking for perspective.

 

I've been saying the same lady since October 2017. Things are going pretty good. We have had our ups and downs, but everything seems to be going OK.

 

LONG story short, sex is VERY important to her and is less important to me. She seems to place value on the relationship with how much we are having sex and whether I want to or not (sometimes I will even if she wants to and I'm indifferent, and this makes her not feel so great).

 

Further, there are moments when I question the relationship, such as when she gets upset and shuts down instead of vocalizing what's the matter, until she can't hold it in anymore and is in tears. She's generally fine, but some times seems to make HUGE deals of very little.

 

There are some things that are great about her as well. First, I enjoy her company, and I really enjoy her family. My family is very loving towards me, but there is a level of affection and understanding that I did not really get from my parents that her family gives me (in short, I have pretty conservative parents with very fixed mindsets that I think were very harmful towards me. I moved away, and still keep in touch and visit for holidays, but generally prefer to be around my partner's family than my own).

 

When things aren't going so well with my partner, I find that being around her family reminds me of everything I like about her.

 

Our living situation was quite interesting for a while. She lived in a garden-level, tiny apartment for a year, and I had to live with her for a few months. We were generally miserable during this living situation. However, now we live in a place above-ground together that is ours and much bigger, we are much happier.

 

Here is my question: I do love her. I care so deeply about her, but I question whether I am IN love with her. We don't really say 'I love you' much, but we also don't find much meaning behind the words (and also talk about how it's borderline gross hearing couples that have been dating for a couple of months say it, only to break up a couple of months later).

 

I imagine myself eventually marrying her, but I also envision myself with potentially being with someone else. We are compatible in most ways, but not in all ways. I just worry that I'm investing a lot of time into this, and she isn't the 'right one.'

 

I went to counseling about this, and the psychologist told me that my relationship is par of the course, most of it is work, disagreeing, and that "butterflies" feeling goes away. Relationships end up being more logical than "feelings"-oriented in the long run.

 

I just don't know.

 

Anyone with experience have some input?

 

EDIT: I'm 29M, she's 28F. We met on Tinder. It was supposed to be casual, but "blew up" to what it is today.

[RecentChange]

I don't know.... You two have communication issues, you aren't on the same page regarding sex, and you can envision spending your life with someone else.

 

I don't think this is how happily ever after starts - nor do I think if you were actually in love - would you ever question that.

 

Spending the rest of your life with someone, bringing two lives together as one can be hard - but it's much easier when it's a good match.

 

I can only come from my experiences - but my husband and I fell for each other hard, it was then that I discovered I had never been in love before - it was a whole new level.

 

And we weathered hardships of being broke, living in a tiny shared place, cars breaking down etc - with little in the ways of disagreements - instead all the hard stuff was easier because we had each other.

 

From what you have told us, this doesn't sound like "the one" to me.

[lakerman34]

@RecentChange....

 

Yeah, my thoughts on the situation change from time to time.

 

We are both logical people. We don't do a whole lot with mushy feelings and all of that. I imagine ANY relationship I have with anyone I would have some skepticism. "Falling hard" in love is something I don't think I will experience because I am skeptical of all relationships and matters of the heart.

 

She's DEFINITELY more into the relationship than I am. Without question. When there is conflict (and she gets over her "silent treatments" -- which, admittedly, she has been more communicative lately), we talk through it and eventually end up stronger because of it.

 

I don't know how else to word this, but I think a lot of the relationship "issues" come from her own stress. She gets stressed out much more easily than I do, and sometimes, seems to WANT to find issues with our relationships when there's nothing there (although, when we talk about it, we clear things up and things are genuinely OK afterwards). She has admitted to me that she has a lot of mental "stuff" and depression, and that sometimes gets in the way of her being happy (she sometimes doesn't allow herself happiness, and has told me that she is generally an unhappy person -- something that I just don't agree with her on).

 

She's not "broken" -- not at all. Putting the relationship psychologically, she's gotten a lot more from me than I from her (which, my psychologist said, is a pretty common dynamic in relationships).

 

I care so very, very deeply about her. But actually being "in love" is a feeling that I don't know about. I don't think it's a feeling that I'm capable of feeling, honestly. Love is there, "in love" is way too mushy for me (and also her).

 

Questioning being "in love" I think is our nature. Some people are just in love and don't question it, and I respect that. Both of us definitely do.

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[FMW]

I married my xH for "logical" reasons, good friendship, shared outlooks, etc. I was 28 and came to the conclusion that I wasn't one of those romantic "in love" kind of people either.

 

We stayed married for 23 years, but most of those years weren't very satisfactory and as time went on resentments built up on both sides and the connection we thought was great in the beginning disappeared completely.

 

I then met someone when I was 50 years old who I felt all those mushy romantic things for. I didn't recognize myself, it was an eye opening experience to realize the ability to feel that way existed in me.

 

So from my own admittedly skewed view, I don't think this is the love of your life.

[lakerman34]

@Finding my way....

 

I know where you're coming from.

 

I'm very split. I'm pretty happy in this relationship, and she is very happy. I'm incredibly proud of her and love calling her my girlfriend.

 

My issue lies in those moments when we aren't on the same page, or when we disagree about something. It's usually rectified eventually after talking it over, but sometimes, the feeling is "are you effin serious?"

 

I spoke about this all with a psychologist, and he seems to think that what I'm going through in my relationship is very normal. I told my girlfriend about the conclusions that he came to, and she seems to respect them (for example, I can't make her "feel" anything. The issues in our relationship tend to arise from her fixed mindset and her own perspective).

 

One of my biggest issues with her is her fixed mindset. She sometimes feels like she's inadequate at work b/c she messed something up, for example. We've spoken about fixed vs. open mindsets, and she concluded that she does, indeed, have a fixed mindset, and I have an open one. She's actively trying to "fix" this, and frankly, I do think her mindset is the cause of pretty much ALL issues within our relationship. She also recognizes this.

 

EDIT: Also, by "logical," I don't mean "on paper, we have similar interests and outlooks so we SHOULD get along." I mean more so "we care deeply about each other, we are each other's best friends, the butterflies aren't all there, but we work well together."

 

For a while, she thought I wasn't attracted to her (used to be a HUGE issue, but seems to have gone away). After speaking about it, she came to the conclusion that it was her lack of confidence that was sort of making it difficult for me, so all of these things we are working on.

 

I should also say that I'm working on stuff on myself as well, but I think working on myself comes more easily for me than it does her.

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[RecentChange]

I am a very logical person, throughout my life I have been jabbed at for not being particularly emotional and perhaps a bit cold and direct.

 

For me falling in love wasn't so much about mushy stuff but instead being flabbergasted at meeting someone who was so compatible. We both thought the other was quite attractive and "out of our league" - what we thought was going to be a one night stand has turned into a life time partnership.

 

For us, it all clicked because we have the same communication styles. We had similar formative years and that has allowed us to understand each other in ways I didn't think possible. We have deep respect for each other - he is smart caring and funny, he sees the same qualities in me.

 

For myself at least, there has never been a doubt. I met him and simply was astounded that some like him walked into my life.

 

I guess you could call it butterflies - to this day it brightens my mood when I see he has sent me a message or if we make plans to spend the evening out after work.

 

For me - to withstand the test of time - there has to be some passion. There have been rocky points in our 19 years together - if we weren't just wild about each other, if we weren't hot for each other, if our passion and desire wasn't there, I don't know if we would have come out the other side. For us sex is a great healer - if I had questions about his desire for me - yeah I don't think it would have worked.

 

Without attraction and desire we would be roommates - I know many women feel like me and that being desired by my partner is critical to me.

[lakerman34]

@RecentChange...

 

What I'm saying is, you could be right. This might just be that my girlfriend and I are just incompatible, full stop.

 

OR that's just your relationship style, and that's just how you two feel a "good" relationship should be.

 

I honestly have no idea.

 

For me, I just came across this article, and I'm feeling it big time:

https://medium.com/@krisgage/how-to-really-know-youre-in-love-d8d433a0f0bf

 

I do know that EVERYTHING I do (and a lot of what she does) is with the other person in mind. Some days, she just wants to cuddle in the middle of the day, but I have other things on my mind -- I have to make dinner, I have an exam to study for, a project I'm excited about, something that I absolutely must read.

 

I've learned to compromise. Sometimes, I cuddle. However, she has compromised too, I've noticed. She sometimes knows that I absolutely MUST do what I planned on doing, and she seems OK with this.

 

A LOT of our issues came from her incredibly stressful work (she's a PhD student in the natural sciences at a top research institution -- many days she's out working from 5AM-10PM), and the fact that we had to live in HER (not our) tiny apartment with ALL of our stuff in what was essentially a gloomy basement.

 

Issues still come up. Not as often as they used to. We talk through them, and things are fine.

 

In the past, when I was with someone I absolutely did not want to break up. I would do WHATEVER IT TOOK to keep the relationship going. Now, I'm almost weirdly OK if we did? Not because I want to, but because I know if it happens, it's because it was what was best for both of us, and I can live with that. It would suck, but if it makes logical sense, so be it.

 

The mushiest we get is we are VERY weird around each other. It's very cute, but when I take a step back from it, I can't believe how weird we are. Still, that whole "I love you," making out all day, cuddling all day, sex all day is not a thing we do. I don't know if I really want to (I'm pretty adverse to being in bed all day).

 

Still, I know she likes that stuff, so sometimes, I do it for her.

 

According to this article, maybe I'm asking the wrong question? Maybe I'm really good at loving her, I enjoy loving her, and that's good enough?

 

Or maybe, you're right and I'm wrong.

 

Who knows.

 

Relationships are weird.

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[RecentChange]

Relationships are weird.

 

I will agree that relationships are weird, and no two are alike.

 

I guess is what strikes me about what you have written is indifference.... Like if the relationship fell apart... Then oh well.

 

That you two have had your fair share of struggles in two short years - the early years should be limerence, it should be the time when everything comes easy.

 

To me "love" doesn't have much of anything to do with laying around and having sex all day - I have enjoyed that with guys I kinda like - certainly didn't love.

 

To me love is not being able to imagine life without her. Love is feeling so blessed to have this person in your life. Love is that thing that makes you think that you would take a bullet for this person. Love makes you have compassion for their weaknesses and admiration for their strengths.

 

You just seem a bit take it or leave it - you don't even KNOW if you love her.

 

I am saying that marriage and a life long partnership - if that is your goal will test your love. It will test your resolve to put the relationship first and make it work.

 

It will test to see your love for her is your top priority.

 

Is it?

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[lakerman34]

@RecentChange....

Parts of this I agree with, other parts I disagree with. The whole "first two years should be limerence part," for example, I USED to agree with. I've been with women that I was head-over-heels for, and then it ended when I couldn't bare the thought of them.

 

There are no timelines. There are no hard rules.

 

I don't have a "take it or leave it" attitude, but more so an attitude of if she wanted to leave, I'd say, "if that's what is best for you, then I agree" attitude. It's no longer the "please don't leave, I'll do better" attitude that I have had with women in the past.

 

I don't know. I'm starting to believe that that's what love looks like??

Maybe I'm crazy, but maybe someone out there shares this experience?

 

We also speak about other relationships and how people who are together have long been out of love. They are just going through the motions because society has told them to do so and their families want them to. We absolutely don't want to be that.

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[smackie9]

You have only been together for a few years and you question this? If you stay you are only settling, and will regret it. You are simply comfortable, but as the years go on, you will emotionally drift apart and wonder if the grass is greener. Obviously this isn't going to work for the long haul.

[lakerman34]

@smackie9....

 

I never said I was settling? I don't believe that. I think, when she was going through some stuff, she thought I thought I was settling. That hurt me a lot knowing she thought that.

Edited November 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[smackie9]

@smackie9....

 

I never said I was settling? I don't believe that. I think, when she was going through some stuff, she thought I thought I was settling. That hurt me a lot knowing she thought that.

No I said you are settling if you feel you are "Not in love" but stick it out anyways.

 

 

What I see is that you don't connect, you don't understand each other, you down play how she feels about certain things, she shuts down and for that she gives up....because you don't get her. Then you get frustrated at her response....and around and around we go.

Edited November 11, 2019 by smackie9

[lakerman34]

No I said you are settling if you feel you are "Not in love" but stick it out anyways.

 

 

What I see is that you don't connect, you don't understand each other, you down play how she feels about certain things, she shuts down and for that she gives up....because you don't get her. Then you get frustrated at her response....and around and around we go.

 

That's not quite right.

 

I don't downplay anything. I listen to her, and she eventually comes around to "ok, maybe I'm overthinking this," which I usually respond with, "if that's how you feel, it's completely valid."

 

She shuts down because that's how she is. It's normalized in her family. She says is a midwestern habit. I'm from the northeast, and my family is VERY forward. If something is wrong, they are VERY vocal. She and her family get really silent and don't communicate at all. I've told her that lack of communication doesn't work for me, and she is actively trying to fix this (we haven't had a "silent" moment for a few months now).

 

I am frustrated. I'm allowed to be frustrated. I tell her I'm frustrated and exactly why. When she gets frustrated, she (now) tells me exactly why. We talk about it. We move on.

[Berteau]

Ive Done a lot of research on this, and basically the being “in love” eventually fades and after that you have to fall back on compatibility and someone who is a good life partner. That’s why you’re supposed to marry your best friend. My concern would be that your “sort of in love” feelings keep fading until you realize there’s just isn’t enough there.

 

It doesn’t seem like you are truely in love with her, but is she your best friend? Can you see yourself with her forever? I think you need at least 2 out of 3 of these to stay in the relationship.

[RecentChange]

Above you said that in the past you would work harder and try not to make a girl leave, but with her that you would set her free.

 

She is working on her communication. If she asked you to work on managing your frustrations would you?

 

Look to me, if you are having to ask strangers if you are in love. If you have something in front of you, and you don't know what it is, but you think it could maybe be love because of things you have read.

 

In my book - that's not the kind of love that is going to get you through thick and thin. It's not the kind of stuff that will survive the test of time.

 

Now you may disagree, but you have to wonder why you are asking in the first place then.

[mark clemson]

I think you are "settling" but to be fair, I've heard that "settling" is how most families actually get made.

 

It's also true that people change over time and even the most "best for each other" couples can change so that eventually they're not any more. Accepting how the other person changes/has changed over time and being willing to compromise while making sure that your needs get met to a reasonable extent are key IMO. Sometimes you get unlucky and they go out in left field somehow, so there's always that risk.

 

That said, it probably helps to start from a point of really liking the other person.

 

Further, there are moments when I question the relationship, such as when she gets upset and shuts down instead of vocalizing what's the matter, until she can't hold it in anymore and is in tears. She's generally fine, but some times seems to make HUGE deals of very little.

 

 

It sounds like she is emotionally unstable or "bottles up" her feelings to a certain extent. You should probably work on that with her (e.g. in couples counseling or similar). It sounds like YOU should work on the affection level to help her needs be met, which may be partly a need for feeling secure.

 

You say you don't get mushy much. You should beware limerence in the future, because IF it gets triggered for you and you've never experienced it, it will probably hit you like a ton of bricks. Since you're unlikely to experience it for her, it would be for someone outside the relationship (if it occurs for you) and so could lead to serious problems.

[Lotsgoingon]

If you have to ask this question, then the answer is no, you're not in love.

 

You want an overwhelming, passionate, fierce desire to be with this person--overwhelming!

 

I'm not sensing that here--not at all.

[lakerman34]

I think you are "settling" but to be fair, I've heard that "settling" is how most families actually get made.

 

It's also true that people change over time and even the most "best for each other" couples can change so that eventually they're not any more. Accepting how the other person changes/has changed over time and being willing to compromise while making sure that your needs get met to a reasonable extent are key IMO. Sometimes you get unlucky and they go out in left field somehow, so there's always that risk.

 

That said, it probably helps to start from a point of really liking the other person.

 

 

 

 

It sounds like she is emotionally unstable or "bottles up" her feelings to a certain extent. You should probably work on that with her (e.g. in couples counseling or similar). It sounds like YOU should work on the affection level to help her needs be met, which may be partly a need for feeling secure.

 

You say you don't get mushy much. You should beware limerence in the future, because IF it gets triggered for you and you've never experienced it, it will probably hit you like a ton of bricks. Since you're unlikely to experience it for her, it would be for someone outside the relationship (if it occurs for you) and so could lead to serious problems.

 

She does bottle it up her feelings, she is aware of it, and I've suggested couples' counseling.

 

She has been handling it on her own and, generally, has been much better. It has made the relationship much easier.

[lakerman34]

If you have to ask this question, then the answer is no, you're not in love.

 

You want an overwhelming, passionate, fierce desire to be with this person--overwhelming!

 

I'm not sensing that here--not at all.

 

I think this is a fairy tale relationship that some people may experience, but not everyone experiences love/relationships the same way.

 

I would never have that kind of desire for a person. I'm just not mentally built that way. I have a high sex drive, but I'm generally VERY measured and question everything.

[lakerman34]

Above you said that in the past you would work harder and try not to make a girl leave, but with her that you would set her free.

 

She is working on her communication. If she asked you to work on managing your frustrations would you?

 

Look to me, if you are having to ask strangers if you are in love. If you have something in front of you, and you don't know what it is, but you think it could maybe be love because of things you have read.

 

In my book - that's not the kind of love that is going to get you through thick and thin. It's not the kind of stuff that will survive the test of time.

 

Now you may disagree, but you have to wonder why you are asking in the first place then.

 

I generally think reading about psychology of love is more useful than anecdotes. Not to say that anecdotes aren't important, there is use for them, and that's what I'm trying to get here.

 

I went to a psychologist because of my frustrations. I'm really not the problem here. She isn't either. I'm just more proactive at problem solving than she is (see mindsets above). I've always worked with her, I listen to her, and we get through all of her issues within the relationship together. Honestly, we feel a much stronger bond after we have those conversations, they tend to be pretty emotional.

 

If she asked me to work on my frustration, it wouldn't make much sense. Actually, she commends me on my patience. I tell her she's worth it because I truly believe she is.

 

If it was ANY kind of relationship, I would question it eventually (and, likely, often). I'm a scholar and skeptic by nature. I spoke to my psychologist about my skepticism in the relationship, and he actually said that it was good of me to question things the way I do.

 

After the responses I am getting here, I am actually thinking making another appointment will better answer my questions. Not to knock any responses here, but I think it's very difficult to give advice on relationships that are different than your own. If something is vastly different from your own, and you're happy, you think the other relationship must not be a good one. I think logically, this makes sense, but I've learned that relationships are anything but logical. That's partially why I will always be skeptical.

[TheBlingRing14]

Sorry for the pontification forthcoming.

 

When it comes to "love," I don't really believe in a one size fits all approach. Some people do have that once-in-a-lifetime moment, so I am not going to say it doesn't happen. But, I also think there are more people out there that don't have it than many may think. My personal opinion on it is that love is less something you luck into or happen upon. To me, love is a choice. Love is work. Love is an active verb.

 

Look at people 150 years ago, even 100 years ago. They didn't have a billion options to choose from. They didn't have the luxury of being picky about certain traits that the opposite sex had. They had a limited pool of people based on relative geographic proximity. It wasn't, for the most part, "Oh, let me find my Soulmate!" and more about "I want to find a life partner."

 

It wasn't about going out and finding "The One" or wondering where on this great big planet The One was, and how they can be found. No. They picked someone they were moderately attracted to, that they felt was well suited, that they got along with. And then, they made it work. And many people did eventually fall in love that way. And others loved their partners in their own way. They didn't look for The One. They made their own The One. They chose their One and they grew together as partners.

 

I am not saying those times were perfect. Of course not. I am just saying, it's such a stark contrast between those times and current times where people are expecting a great "You just know" romance. Sure, it happens for some people, but I don't think it happens for everyone.

 

It's tough for me, because clearly I have a more pragmatic view of romance and relationships and partnerships. Unfortunately, the men I have dated have been looking for the Aha moment, the fireworks, the Hallelujah chorus raining down when they meet a girl. It's tough, because I think we would actually get along quite well, and make each other happy over the long term, and could actually have a nice relationship, if we chose each other as partners and not some kismet, soulmate, fate thing.

 

Personally, it sounds like to me you have a good thing going. You clearly care about each other. And, you clearly care about her, even if you think she may be more into it than you are. I am exactly, EXACTLY like your lady where I tend to clam up and go quiet and let the stress build up...it drove my ex crazy. But, it is something I have been working on. Your girl can work on it too; I don't think it makes her undatable or anything. People can improve themselves. I wouldn't see it as "settling" to continue on with her.

 

Ultimately it's up to you and what feels right for you. I just wanted to give you another perspective, maybe so you, or someone else, doesn't feel so alone or weird in their thinking.

[FMW]

Generally when someone posts here they have realized there is a problem and they can't quite reconcile it through their normal channels. What inspired you to post instead of just rolling with your established logical and measured approach?

 

Psychology is fascinating and really useful - but a lot of us have lived to a ripe old age and suddenly discovered emotions and reactions that were contrary to what we thought we knew about ourselves. The anecdotes represent our real life experiences.

 

I hope you find answers in a form that you can accept and have a happy future with your girlfriend.