Unsettling Conversation

[OatsAndHall]

This is my take as well. She's putting school and career ahead of a relationship/marriage/family.

 

She'll probably continue to do this until she reaches the point when/if she's ready to settle down and adjust her priorities.

 

How old are you both, and what are your primary life goals right now? I get the sense she's in her "me stage" and this will go on for a while, possibly years.

 

 

I'm 39 and she's 45. I couldn't honestly tell you what her goals are right now as they bounce all over the board. She tried to backtrack on her commitment-phobe declaration but her actions show otherwise. Her age and her past are pretty firm indicators that she will always be bouncing around. She claims to want a relationship but it's becoming clearer that the relationship needs to be completely on her terms.

 

 

 

I'm on a good career track and looking to settle down somewhere but I haven't quite figured that one out. I'm making decent money in my current teaching position but I feel that my resume and experience is worth a far better salary. And, I'm not particularly fond of the school I'm teaching at right now as there's a lack of resources and a bad education culture. We'll see.

 

 

 

This week has been good for me in that I've been able to take a step back, detach myself from the situation a bit and observe. She is visiting a sick friend across the country and went AWOL one day in. I expected it to happen as she does that when she has a lot on her plate.

 

 

 

 

 

She's across the country, busy keeping up on her schooling and dealing with the potential loss of her friend and I'm certainly not going to intrude upon those things. She texted me, apologized for not responding to the two texts I had sent her (Good morning and Good night) and ranted a bit about how she's busy, etc..etc... The underlying message behind the text was basically "I'm not going to respond so don't please don't be upset." I wanted to tell her that it probably took her five minutes to compose that text versus the 10 seconds to respond "Good morning" or "Good night" but I left it be.

 

 

 

I'm not upset about her lack of response but it's certainly telling of who she is and how she handles things. She knows I'm not a big texter and don't expect nor demand continual responses. But, I do think her one response shows how she handles relationships; they're just not a priority. If the relationship were important for her, she'd take ten seconds out of her day and respond with two-three words.

 

 

 

She gets back tomorrow and I am debating about pulling the plug. Neither of us enjoys the holidays and we made Thanksgiving plans together. But, we will see.

[Mr. Lucky]

She gets back tomorrow and I am debating about pulling the plug. Neither of us enjoys the holidays and we made Thanksgiving plans together. But, we will see.

 

I think you’re being a little hasty and perhaps less than realistic.

 

You don’t successfully survive on your own until age 45 without a strong sense of self and an independent streak. Coupled with her somewhat direct nature, she is who she is.

 

OandH, if you like her and get along well, there’s some building blocks for a relationship here. Neither of you are tied to your location so there’s a chance to do some different things.

 

If you’re looking for the house/white picket fence/minivan, this isn’t it. But life comes in all shapes and sizes, I’d stay open to the possibilities...

 

Mr. Lucky

[salparadise]

She then let loose a diatribe about how she struggles with commitment, that she has walls built up, she knows that it's not healthy but that she's not going to change. I listened, attentively, and appreciated the honesty but this is all quite contrary to what we've talked about taking this slow and just enjoying the company.

 

She has told you, and now shown you even, who she is, and you should listen. She is fearful-avoidant, and as she said herself it's not going to change. Meaning that she will always be holding you at arm's length and doing things to sabotage or push away... and you will be the one having to try to talk her down and get things back on track. She can't tolerate vulnerability, so instead of embracing emotional interdependence she pushes away to feel independent. How that feels for you is just not part of the calculus. It's not that she's intentionally trying to keep you on a roller coaster, but that's net result.

 

Of course you have to run your own life and make decisions that feel right to you... but I was married to one who had such predispositions, and knowing what I know now I would not assume it could be fixed or compensated for by demonstrations of love, loyalty and commitment. It is what it is my friend.

[Wanderlust2018]

I'm 39 and she's 45. I couldn't honestly tell you what her goals are right now as they bounce all over the board. She tried to backtrack on her commitment-phobe declaration but her actions show otherwise. Her age and her past are pretty firm indicators that she will always be bouncing around. She claims to want a relationship but it's becoming clearer that the relationship needs to be completely on her terms.

 

 

 

I'm on a good career track and looking to settle down somewhere but I haven't quite figured that one out. I'm making decent money in my current teaching position but I feel that my resume and experience is worth a far better salary. And, I'm not particularly fond of the school I'm teaching at right now as there's a lack of resources and a bad education culture. We'll see.

 

 

 

This week has been good for me in that I've been able to take a step back, detach myself from the situation a bit and observe. She is visiting a sick friend across the country and went AWOL one day in. I expected it to happen as she does that when she has a lot on her plate.

 

 

 

 

 

She's across the country, busy keeping up on her schooling and dealing with the potential loss of her friend and I'm certainly not going to intrude upon those things. She texted me, apologized for not responding to the two texts I had sent her (Good morning and Good night) and ranted a bit about how she's busy, etc..etc... The underlying message behind the text was basically "I'm not going to respond so don't please don't be upset." I wanted to tell her that it probably took her five minutes to compose that text versus the 10 seconds to respond "Good morning" or "Good night" but I left it be.

 

 

 

I'm not upset about her lack of response but it's certainly telling of who she is and how she handles things. She knows I'm not a big texter and don't expect nor demand continual responses. But, I do think her one response shows how she handles relationships; they're just not a priority. If the relationship were important for her, she'd take ten seconds out of her day and respond with two-three words.

 

 

 

She gets back tomorrow and I am debating about pulling the plug. Neither of us enjoys the holidays and we made Thanksgiving plans together. But, we will see.

 

OP, I would be concerned that a woman at age 45 doesn’t have a pretty clear (or at least mostly clear) picture on what she wants and where she’s going in life. I’m in my late 40’s and that just wouldn’t work for me.

 

Also, you make a very good point on the txt response she sent. She sounds like one woman I used to date. Regardless of her friend and the situation, it doesn’t show a lot of effort in my humble opinion. Personally, I think demonstrating effort carries a lot of weight in evaluating a prospective partner early on...even when one is dealing with something such as she is with her friend.

[preraph]

Sounds like she's noncommital in not just love but also career and life goals as well. It's not always easy to find a path you want to be on, but she does seem to just kind of drift and hop around.

[elaine567]

OP, I would be concerned that a woman at age 45 doesn’t have a pretty clear (or at least mostly clear) picture on what she wants and where she’s going in life. I’m in my late 40’s and that just wouldn’t work for me.

But she is not a settled woman with a man, a house and two kids nor is she a woman with a set career path nor does she have a steady job.

She is a student. She has gone "back to school" to be a paramedic, so of course her future will be uncertain until she gets a job. She will not be qualified for another year.

She can't promise anything to anyone not even herself at present.

[Wanderlust2018]

But she is not a settled woman with a man, a house and two kids nor is she a woman with a set career path nor does she have a steady job.

She is a student. She has gone "back to school" to be a paramedic, so of course her future will be uncertain until she gets a job. She will not be qualified for another year.

She can't promise anything to anyone not even herself at present.

 

Exactly... However, I don’t think anyone, female (nor male) need those things you mentioned to be somewhat “settled” in life, have some direction or semblance of a life plan...student or not, especially at age 45. The OP sounds like he is looking for some stability at this stage in life and a potential partner.

[chillii]

Can't read the whole thread again but just wondering has she been in any long term relationships, surely she must've at 45 , like 10 or 15yrs, anything ?

l think this will tell you a lot because if she hasn't then l dunno , anything can happen you can never say never really but that'd probably make it pretty unlikely she could make a real go of anything now.

lf she's had something long term before then right person and she'd probably work into something new over time. Takes time , 6 even 12 mths, people work into things and answering to someone again, adjusting to the new life, when they've been single before, not unusual.

 

So much depends on your thing together ,how your both feeling and growing. lf your both developing big feelings and things are growing and growing then yeah , she could be ok and build up in time. lf just medico then it probably won't go far.

Wouldn't worry about the text thing, we do stuff like that all the time when my woman's up home.

Sometimes your just too mentally busy or just busy or tired or not in the mood or whatever.

If we don't answer things like that we'll usually get a long one later filling the other in, grain of salt.

Edited November 25, 2019 by chillii

[Ruby Slippers]

She then let loose a diatribe about how she struggles with commitment, that she has walls built up, she knows that it's not healthy but that she's not going to change.

This says it all.

 

You can accept her and engage with her as is, or not.

 

I understand completely why you'd feel wary about investing time and emotional energy in someone with this mindset. Most people want to invest in relationships that are productive and have a future. It's natural to feel wary about investing further in one so uncertain.

[TheFinalWord]

She told you who she is, and what you can expect...

 

1) She has commitment issues

2) She gets bored of men and dumps

3) Will likely go overseas and increase the distance between you, not decrease it...which she would do if she was invested. She likes this relationship because she doesn't have to invest much. I don't date these types of women because the only way to win them over is if you game her in such a way that her feelings for you sneak up on her, so to speak. Right now, she is keeping the pattern like this precisely to avoid investing in you.

4) She isn't thinking month by month yet. She isn't that invested in you yet.

 

But, I wouldn't project so far into the future with her either. Month by month..that's a lot to put on someone you barely know. It might be 2 months, but you don't see each other very much from what I'm reading. She just hears that and thinks you are already projecting a long term commitment from her and it will freak her out, especially if she's a commitment-phobe. Let her worry about the relationship.

 

Side note, men you can see why it's not worth your time talking on the phone excessively. It doesn't build anything in terms of investment from a woman. It's just flirting and someone to talk to in her mind. If you had been on 20+ hours of dates per week, she might be invested. Talking on the phone that much isn't building anything in her, emotionally. It's a waste of your time and opens you up to the sunk cost fallacy (you feel like you've invested so much and try to hold onto something that isn't going to work in the long run). Date other women and see her when you can, even if it's only once a month. Long distance generally only works if you got to know the person in real life first, then some life event separated you, and you are both committed to closing the distance in the next year or so. Trying to get to know someone via a LDR doesn't work unless you both have the time to see each other at least once a week.

Edited November 26, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[ThorntonMelon]

My only thoughts here is that she's doing an awful lot of driving the bus here in terms of what the relationship is and isn't.

 

I mean, the rest of it is all dating theory, right? I'd just evaluate the relationship and if it's giving you what you want, enjoy the ride, if it isn't, bail. But she seems very unconcerned with your wants and needs and while I'm not suggesting she need to prioritize yours for hers, I am not seeing much that suggests you're in a 50/50 situation.

 

I'd enjoy the sex and the fun parts and bail as soon as it gets too difficult to ignore that you're in something casual.

[CLS63AMG]

She just called to clarify our plans for the day. I let told her we needed to discuss last night's conversation before we moved forward. It was a blunt discussion but a productive one. I told her that I didn't appreciate her comment about "getting bored with me" and that, although the relationship is new, it couldn't continue if she already has a foot out the door. I fully expected that to be the end of things but it didn't.

 

 

 

She stated, again, that she struggles with relationships and commitment, and that she is having a difficult time with us because she does feel a strong connection. She apologized for her statement about "getting bored" and said that she shot herself in the foot with the talk about going overseas for six months. She stated that jumped the gun with the comment and that she would like to continue to move forward slowly and see where things go.

 

 

 

I'm willing to give this a cautious run as this is conversation was open, honest, and candid. I'm exceptionally straightforward (not rude...) when I need to discuss something like this and it generally turns into an argument that I won't have.

 

 

 

So, we shall see. I've been quite quick to pull the trigger on relationships in the past. Maybe I should in this situation but I will continue to see how it goes.

 

 

You'll have most of the answers you seek in about a month of steady hanging out. I have a feeling she's projecting 180 and is actually the opposite, she gets too attached, too quick and runs guys off with her neediness and clingyness.

 

 

Time will tell and at least you now know what to look out for

[Saracena]

From what you've written it seems to me your gf is insecure and doesn't know what she wants out of life.

 

In the very first convo you described with her at the beginning of this thread I believe you said the two of you were drinking, if I recall? So she was relaxed and more transparent than usual.

 

The very first thing that came out of that openness was not how she wanted to travel for six months. What came out of it was her trying to talk about the state of your R, which seems to me to be an attempt to find out how serious about her you are, and possibly to get you to express some type of commitment to her.

 

Instead, you told her you're content to take things, month-to-month or something like that. It seems to me that was less of a commitment than she wanted from you and her insecurities kicked in so that she pushed back by saying she might get bored with you, wanted to travel six months out of the year, has walls up, etc.

 

I believe she felt she'd made herself vulnerable to you and you hadn't taken the bait which triggered her. And I believe that's why she talked about having walls. To me, it seems she threw up walls right then and there because she had a sense of being rejected by you during the conversation.

 

Then the next time you talked she was all over herself trying to smooth things over and make like she's a safe choice to be with.

 

To me, she's operating from a vantage point of self preservation, rather than from a comfortable position of being secure in who she is and able to step back and see the whole picture. I think she's afraid. So much so that she's willing to switch around her talking points in order to keep the R with you alive.

 

What you're telling me about her ex cheating on her and that you're seeing insecurities in her seems to me to align with this idea.

 

This is a wounded, insecure woman, it seems. Not saying she's not worth dating. Just that she has a lot of healing from her past relationship to do. I also think she doesn't have a lot of insight into herself.

 

She needs healing before she's ready to settle into a healthy relationship, IMO. Of course, you're there with her and have so much other information to go on. Keep in mind this comment is just based on a few posts from you about her.

 

Absolutely spot on. My thoughts exactly when I read your first post H.

[OatsAndHall]

I ended up calling it off earlier this week.

 

 

As I posted earlier, she had been across the country and disappeared for seven days. Again, this didn't bother me as she had a lot going on and, a month into a relationship, I don't expect to be a priority.

 

 

 

She texted me before as she was getting ready to fly out and told me she'd get in touch when she landed. She said she was looking forward to talking to me tonight and that she missed me. I would've met her at the airport but I was working and she had a friend picking her up.

 

 

I saw that her plane had landed and waited four hours for a text or a phone call but got nothing. I texted her to see if she was alright and didn't get a response. I waited an hour or so and called her; she picked up and she was clearly drunk. Her friend had picked her up from the airport and they'd immediately gone to grab dinner and drinks.

 

 

 

I wasn't the happiest of campers at that point and felt blown off. But, I kept my cool and told her that I would talk to her later. I slept on it, chilled out and called her the next evening to chat about all of it. The ensuing conversation wasn't pretty.

 

 

 

I let her know that I wasn't happy that she hadn't texted me when she got in as it would've taken all of thirty seconds. I stated that a "Hey, _____ just picked me up and she wants to go grab dinner and drinks. I'll talk to you later!" text would've sufficed. This resulted in her getting angry and stating that I was being pushy, that I didn't want her to see her friend, etc..etc.. (typical gaslighting).

 

 

 

This is unequivocally false as I sent her TWO texts while she was away and I let her get a hold of me when she's in town and busy with school. Also a few weeks ago, I pushed her to ditch half of our full day's worth of plans so that she could see her friend as I know she hadn't been spending time with her. I pointed these facts out to her which made her angrier. She started to become rude and condescending so I just called it off.

 

 

 

In retrospect, it is for the best as is. I'm an educated man on a solid career path; I have many avenues ahead of me to advance in my field, make more money and work where ever I choose. She, on the other hand, is basically just starting her life at 45 years of age and I can't see myself following her while she does so.

[LivingWaterPlease]

She doesn’t keep her word by texting when she landed - and then tries to turn it around on you?

 

Ya, be glad you’re done with her.

 

Yep! From all you've written good choice to end it. She seems very insecure and selfish, too.

[chillii]

Must admit, tried to be positive for ya but going on all that she's a 16yrold in a 45yr olds body , ya don't want one of those, be dealing with her crap forever is my guess.

[Ruby Slippers]

It's clear you did the right thing. I bet she'll come back around, so be prepared for that.

[OatsAndHall]

Must admit, tried to be positive for ya but going on all that she's a 16yrold in a 45yr olds body , ya don't want one of those, be dealing with her crap forever is my guess.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

At the end of it all, I told her that I didn't expect to be on the top of her list with everything that was going on. But, I also stated that I got the strong feeling that a relationship would never be placed at the same level as whatever she has going on in her life in the future. This appears to be her MO with relationships and the failed engagement is probably proof of it. She moved across the country without her fiance to "build a life" for them and it fell through.

 

 

 

I doubt that her moving across the country had much to do with the betterment of the relationship; she had specific wants and she expected her ex to simply fall in line and move with her. And, I could have easily seen myself in the same situation a year from now if I had kept things going.

[preraph]

For whatever reason, she's very inconsiderate and I'm going to say disorganized and impulsive. I can't see her settling into a groove, from what you've told us about her daily M.O.

 

I'm sorry this befell you at the holiday (if it is holiday where you are), but I think it will make the new year cheerier in the long run.

 

She may be narcissistic. I agree what Chili said about acting like a 16 year old.

This is the type thing very young people do. Get caught up, don't think about others. As an example, when I was about 20 or 21, I'd been working at a restaurant for a year and got a vacation and so did my friend. I had a guy sort of living with me in my shack. He'd helped me move in and never left. I didn't know him well still and wasn't sleeping with him but he was nice.

 

My friend had been my college roommate and we'd had many adventures together, lived in a commune, caretaken a ranch, hitchhiked places, very adventurous. Of course, I did let him know we were taking off on our trip, but it was only supposed to be a week. This is before cellphones but there were pay phones and postcards. It didn't even occur to me to let him know we extended the vacation. We didn't come back for 3 weeks. We blew off our waitress job and didn't let them know either. You know, things young people do when they first get a taste of freedom. When we got back, he was justifiably hurt and worried, but I swear it never occurred to me he'd be worried because I assumed he knew how me and her were just from stories. But once he mentioned it, I felt bad and realize, no, he doesn't really know how we were enough to be prepared for that.

 

So it was barely acceptable even at that young age, and only if you knew us. But at 45? That is closer to narcissism or extreme disorganization, neither of which would be fun to live with.

[OatsAndHall]

For whatever reason, she's very inconsiderate and I'm going to say disorganized and impulsive. I can't see her settling into a groove, from what you've told us about her daily M.O.

 

I'm sorry this befell you at the holiday (if it is holiday where you are), but I think it will make the new year cheerier in the long run.

 

She may be narcissistic. I agree what Chili said about acting like a 16 year old.

This is the type thing very young people do. Get caught up, don't think about others. As an example, when I was about 20 or 21, I'd been working at a restaurant for a year and got a vacation and so did my friend. I had a guy sort of living with me in my shack. He'd helped me move in and never left. I didn't know him well still and wasn't sleeping with him but he was nice.

 

My friend had been my college roommate and we'd had many adventures together, lived in a commune, caretaken a ranch, hitchhiked places, very adventurous. Of course, I did let him know we were taking off on our trip, but it was only supposed to be a week. This is before cellphones but there were pay phones and postcards. It didn't even occur to me to let him know we extended the vacation. We didn't come back for 3 weeks. We blew off our waitress job and didn't let them know either. You know, things young people do when they first get a taste of freedom. When we got back, he was justifiably hurt and worried, but I swear it never occurred to me he'd be worried because I assumed he knew how me and her were just from stories. But once he mentioned it, I felt bad and realize, no, he doesn't really know how we were enough to be prepared for that.

 

So it was barely acceptable even at that young age, and only if you knew us. But at 45? That is closer to narcissism or extreme disorganization, neither of which would be fun to live with.

 

 

In her case, I think that she is a lonely, self-conscious woman who is conflicted; she wants someone in her life but also wants a level of "freedom" that isn't conducive to most relationships. She wants to have her cake and eat it too; have a serious relationship but without any of the compromises that comes with it.

 

 

 

We had gotten into a minor argument a few week's back and she had brought up (again..) the fact that she didn't know if she was still going to be in this area next year. This is something that we had talked about several times and I was growing weary of it. She then stated that she "didn't expect to meet someone" while she was here.

 

 

 

My retort to that was simple: "Why are you on a dating website, claiming you want a relationship then?" She didn't have a response to that question. I was firm and told her that if she was questioning her ability to be in a relationship that she needed to pull the plug and we'd go our separate ways. She stated that she cared about me, that she saw potential in us and that she wanted to continue.

 

 

 

All and all, the relationship started to make me unhappy and frustrated. After a month or two, that's a sure sign that it needs to go.

[preraph]

^ Yeah, and again, there she is putting herself out there on dating sites not considering other people's feelings when she goes and does her thing.

 

Every time you write about her, she's going somewhere, so she sounds like someone who, much more than most people, keep moving, like a shark that never stops feeding. It reminds me of an old ex friend of mine. She did marry but she never stopped just going off on trips and just never stopped just roaming. That friend was diagnosed both bipolar and narcissistic. She's the one who cheated on her chronically ill husband, which is when I finally pulled the plug on HER.

[Lotsgoingon]

She's got some serious discomfort with intimacy ... and blocks it ... while denying all along.

 

You did the right thing to let her go.

[Wanderlust2018]

As I said previously...someone her age with no life plan is quite concerning. She seems to exude aloofness. You did the right thing to break this off...no question.

[john9999]

Ask her how she would feel if you were the one telling her those things. Telling her that you’ll be leaving for six months. Telling her that you may get bored with her and that you have trouble with relationships. This turn it on them method works in many many situations. I guarantee she would not like it if you were saying those things to her

[OatsAndHall]

Ask her how she would feel if you were the one telling her those things. Telling her that you’ll be leaving for six months. Telling her that you may get bored with her and that you have trouble with relationships. This turn it on them method works in many many situations. I guarantee she would not like it if you were saying those things to her

 

 

I prodded her to look at her words in a different manner. I told her they bothered me and then stated that we needed to go our separate ways if that's how she was going to proceed with our relationship. I wasn't rude or angry about it; just approached it in a matter-of-fact manner.

 

 

 

Nothing cuts through the bullchit quite like saying: "Let's just end this if it's going to be a waste of our time." By doing so, I expressed how I felt without pointing a lot of fingers,gave her a chance to think about what she had said and if she really wanted to continue.

 

 

 

Upon retrospect, the stars really would have had to align right for us to stay together. As @preraph pointed out, she has a strong case of wanderlust and it would have taken a special and strong relationship for me to follow her and be comfortable with her lifestyle. I would have been putting my career and ambitions on a much different path for a woman who may never know exactly what she wants out of life.