Think it's time to get back on the horse.

[Blind-Sided]

....... I started "dating" about two weeks after my ex-wife asked for a divorce. It certainly wasn't my plan but a female friend made the move during a drunken evening and well, ya, stuff happened................

Mrin

wow... now I don't feel so bad. LOL. Just for public knowledge on this thread... I am 100% legally divorced. Not separated, and not waiting for paperwork. I have the actual document with a county seal on it.

 

 

On your point #2... I'm an open book. I don't mind talking to people about things... and if I think I may want a relationship with someone... I feel they deserve to know the answers to those questions. This is actually something I've been considering since I've seen arguments on both sides of this debate. I figured I would offer to answer whatever questions they may have, but not just openly talk about it, since talking about it could be a turn-off or red flag.

 

OP-read your thread. You've been through a lot. Your kids have been through a lot. Goodness sakes. Your wife sounds like she has mental problems..........

Ummm. Yep on all points. Can't argue at all.

 

Sorry if I got this thread of track, OP. Going forward: Dating can be fun, but also a pain in the tush, especially after being married for so long........... I still think you need more time to completely heal and recover from the dissolution of your marriage. It's still very recent.

 

 

It's still relevant info. Background is needed for good debate/discussion. I'm hopping to have fun with all of this, and be with people who just want to have a little fun. I don't disagree that I could use some more time to heal, but I'm not at a "Broken" point anymore either. And I'm hopping some close contact with someone is what is needed to finish healing.

 

........starving to female attention right now. I wouldn't blame him for that.

Kind of where I'm at.

 

Both of you have given some great info, and insight on all of this, and I do appreciate it.

 

Just an FYI... I haven't made contact with anyone yet, but while txt'ing on of my female friends tonight... she wanted to know if she needed to introduce me to anyone yet. I told her to give me a little more time.

[basil67]

Blind-Sided, 'moving forward' doesn't have to be restricted to dating. Moving forward could equally address issues about letting go of anger, resentment, sorting out parenting issues and generally doing the steps required to set you up for successful dating.

 

Think of it like a building. It would be foolish for the builder to focus on moving forward with the structure if the realised that the foundations still need a bit more work. Working on those foundations is still moving forward.

[Blind-Sided]

Blind-Sided, 'moving forward' doesn't have to be restricted to dating. Moving forward could equally address issues about letting go of anger, resentment, sorting out parenting issues and generally doing the steps required to set you up for successful dating.....

Sure... understood. But I'm not holding anger or resentment at all toward my ex. The parenting issue is out of my control honestly. My older kid doesn't want to be with her mom... I want her to feel safe... the ex wants to dominate the situation. Honestly, if my 13yo would simply go with her mom... it would be easier. (and it would give me some down time too)

[MountainGirl111]

@Blind-Sided: I'm glad you're not broken anymore. Perhaps going forward... and entering into the dating scene again, pay close attention to communication. You wouldn't want to date someone you don't find chemistry with, sure.... but since communication is highly important, if they were easy to talk to and listen well, I'd view that as a plus. Through it all, my best advice is to just be yourself. Love yourself. If you don't love yourself you're more likely to run into problems with any relationship. If you don't love yourself you'll have this fear that you can't just be yourself. Now, I'm not saying you have no self love. I don't get that sense from your threads. But when a person is on a date they tend to get nervous and worry about what their date will think of them. I know you're desperate for female attention...that can pan out okay or it can lead to bad experiences as one may not be as "picky" with who they hang with. Be very very picky. Don't settle for less than the best.

Edited November 2, 2019 by MountainGirl111

[MountainGirl111]

Okay, since you said the experience from your marriage is relavent to now...(forgive me, I'm naturally analytical) I think it's important to carry forward the things one learns from their last relationship.

 

Your wife was angry and resentful toward you for things in the past...for some reason....she didn't feel free to talk about things that bugged her. Sadly, in ya'll's case it ended in divorce....

 

I guess I'm wondering WHY she shut down? Why she didn't feel free to speak up? It's not your fault she lacked the ability to speak up....but she was afraid to for some reason...

 

Was there an imbalance of power in the relationship? Maybe so because she depended on your family for her income. Yes she worked; you BOTH worked...BUT without your family's company she would have no job, am I reading that right?

 

Most people who resort to passive-aggressiveness do so because they feel powerless to be openly confrontational.

 

Anyways, I'n sorry for what you went through and for the split of your family. That can't be easy.

[Blind-Sided]

@Blind-Sided: I'm glad you're not broken anymore. ....... but since communication is highly important, if they were easy to talk to and listen well, I'd view that as a plus.

Thanks... I'm glad too, and I agree, communication is everything.

 

 

Through it all, my best advice is to just be yourself. Love yourself. ...... Now, I'm not saying you have no self love. I don't get that sense from your threads. .... I know you're desperate for female attention...that can pan out okay or it can lead to bad experiences as one may not be as "picky" with who they hang with. Be very very picky. Don't settle for less than the best.

Through my entire life, I've been myself, and that has always worked to my advantage. I'm comfortable in my own skin... so to speak. And I do understand about the self love. During the divorce proceedings, I was questioning myself. Was I really a bad dad?... am I angry to the point where my kids are scared of me?... did I ignore the needs of my exW?? This was going though my mind as my ex was yelling at me, and I was at my "Broken" stage. But sometime back in May... I started to realize that the things coming out of her mouth were delusional rants, and just things she needed to say/do to justify her actions. At that point I was getting better mentally. But the biggest boost to my heart was when my 13yo (Who supposedly was scared, and didn't even want to visit me) finally came to me, and asked about what was going on with mom. And then decided she didn't want to be with her. This closed the book, on any thoughts that I was actually the problem. And that's why I'm not broken anymore.

 

 

On the point of being picky... I do understand, and I won't settle for someone who isn't mentally compatible. Sure, I would absolutely love to have a supermodel sitting next to me, but over the years, I've become less superficial. Not to mention, I'm not the "Hot Guy" anymore. But I am highly educated, and I simply can't do stupid. LOL. One of my female friends (who is an analytical chemist) told me the other day, she had a friend who is very pretty, and has some crazy sex stories, but didn't know if I wanted to meet her as there would be nothing to talk about sitting in the living room.

 

Okay, since you said the experience from your marriage is relavent to now...(forgive me, I'm naturally analytical) I think it's important to carry forward the things one learns from their last relationship. ....I guess I'm wondering WHY she shut down? Why she didn't feel free to speak up? ....Was there an imbalance of power in the relationship?

If you ask her... yes. If you ask me... no. Mind you, any negative she told me was basically right at the end. SO, knowing she was medicated, she has a family history, and I believe she was entering perimenopause... I think it was a chemical imbalance. Just to give you a quick overview... she said she couldn't go anywhere, but I was constantly telling her to find a hobby, and to go out with friends. Even in our neighborhood, there was a woman's gathering they called "Wine Wednesday". (but wasn't always on wed) When I would hear about it, I would tell her to go. She would only go 1 out of 3 or 4 times. But during "The end"... she literally told me "you didn't really want me to go."

 

 

Maybe so because she depended on your family for her income. Yes she worked; you BOTH worked...BUT without your family's company she would have no job, am I reading that right?

Yes, she worked for my family. But she was educated, and she had a VERY good job before taking to job with my dad's company. Never once, in the 16 years working for him did she have an issue. But at "The end" it was "I should have never taken the job, and I should have left a long time ago." And, when she realized that she couldn't keep working for us, since I'm family felt betrayed also... she was able to find a good paying job within 2 months of (my knowledge) starting to look. And in her field of study. But my family is VERY open. It's the kind of family you could have a total blow out argument with... walk away... and the next day say... "What's for dinner?" (Not that we argue hardly ever)

 

Anyways, I'n sorry for what you went through and for the split of your family. That can't be easy.

Thanks for that. It wasn't easy, but I'm sitting here typing this... and my 8yo wants me to make her some breakfast (but told her to give me a couple minutes) and I can hear my 13yo snoring in her room. I have my house, and relatively good heath. I have my kids who are NOT scared of me, and actually love me... I have my family who loves me... and I have a LARGE support group who is there for me on a moment's notice. I'm good, and that's why I think it's time to move on.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[Gaeta]

I would like to address the part about all having baggage at our age. Yes absolutely and it's desired. I met my bf right after turning 50 so I come with baggage, it's a baggage of experience and knowledge and I was looking for the same in a man. That being said 'baggage' doesn't mean 'crazy'. Ok :-)

 

That being said we all think we're ready to date after a divorce and ready to move on, it's another story when we are out there dating. Our first try outs are often bad choices, we unconsciously go toward people similar to our ex because it's familiar to our brain, we make bad choices by lack of experience, etc.

 

I understand after a year you have a need for companionship and closeness. You can date but keep it casual and keep those ladies out of your home and out of your children's life. It's not because the ex has a bf already that you have to do the same. She may go through 10 boyfriends in the next year.

 

And finally, again, don't date weirdos! There are good grounded good looking women of your age out there.

 

 

.

[BaileyB]

It's not because the ex has a bf already that you have to do the same. She may go through 10 boyfriends in the next year.

 

Or, she may in fact chose the first guy she meets, and that may or may not be a good decision, for all the reasons that have been shared above. Whatever she does, it’s her decision. Just as how she treats your daughter is her relationship to harm or heal.

 

You just make the best decisions that you can make for yourself. Have fun with dating, but keep it separate from your family life - at least for the foreseeable future. Good luck.

[Blind-Sided]

I would like to address the part about all having baggage at our age. Yes absolutely and it's desired. I met my bf right after turning 50 so I come with baggage, it's a baggage of experience and knowledge and I was looking for the same in a man. That being said 'baggage' doesn't mean 'crazy'. Ok :-)

You are right. And over the last month or so, I have come to that conclusion. At the moment... I need to not overthink that point. I mentioned the person with 4 kids. It did hit me about the reality of it... but I guess I should look past it, and see if she wanted to go grab a coffee. As we all know... there's a good chance that first person won't work out anyway.

 

I understand after a year you have a need for companionship and closeness. You can date but keep it casual and keep those ladies out of your home and out of your children's life.

I will keep it away from the kids... but why away from the house? If I go out with someone a few times, and things get physical... we need somewhere to go.

 

And finally, again, don't date weirdos! There are good grounded good looking women of your age out there.

LOL... I couldn't agree more. And thanks for your insight.

 

You just make the best decisions that you can make for yourself. Have fun with dating, but keep it separate from your family life - at least for the foreseeable future. Good luck.

I will, and thank.

[Lotsgoingon]

To echo the whole baggage worry, I think the language of "baggage" misses the point, distorts the point.

 

Young people without children ... can have tons of baggage in terms of emotional ignorance, immaturity, unresolved and ignored pain and wounds and on and on. A young person who has a destructive parent and who doesn't have the skill and wisdom to block the parent from interfering with a relationship--that young person has tons of "baggage"

 

Older people with children ... can have tons of maturity and confidence and wisdom.

 

Basically you're looking for someone whose way of living impresses you ... who can love you and receive your love in return. Someone with their life together ... and that comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes and flavors and previous family commitments.

 

Now get out there and let the fun begin.

[Gaeta]

I will keep it away from the kids... but why away from the house? If I go out with someone a few times, and things get physical... we need somewhere to go.

If the children are not home then yes you can have a home date if you've got to know that person a little.

[elaine567]

Older people with children ... can have tons of maturity and confidence and wisdom. .

 

Yes they can but their children may not, their ex may not, the grand parents may not... have any wisdom or maturity..

You may end up dating a tribe...

[Lotsgoingon]

Yes they can but their children may not, their ex may not, the grand parents may not... have any wisdom or maturity..

You may end up dating a tribe...

 

Great quote!

[Blind-Sided]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. There are several points that I hadn't considered, and change the situation.

 

 

I do have a new thought... and that's on attire for a date. Nothing as been set, and I haven't approached anyone, but this is something I would like to know about. I'm the kind of guy who likes cargo shorts, blue jeans, and t-shirts. I'm also the kind of guy who is happiest in the garage. I'm very hands on, and one of my first jobs out of collage was a research chemist. (so lab coat with whatever I wanted to wear under it) My current job requires me to wear formal biz attire. (Slacks, sport coats, suit, so-on) When I travel, since I don't know who I may run into... it's polo shirts, and "New" jeans. So, the closet has a variety of clothes.

 

 

So here's the deal... I understand that if I ask someone out to dinner, and it's a nice place, I will dress appropriately. But on a first meeting... and if it's a morning coffee, or afternoon meal at a chain "Bar and grill" kind of place... would it be OK to just wear jeans and a polo? I get the old saying "Dress to impress"... but 1) dressing-up isn't who I am, and wouldn't that be important to "Be who I am"? and 2) something pushing the formal side of things isn't right for a coffee. (Unless I was going into the office after)

 

 

With that all said... I'm in a snow state, and the weather is starting to shift. So, it will become irrelevant as people will be expected to be seen in boots, jeans, and heavy coats. (can't wear Florsheim's with slush on the ground)

 

 

I will get a couple of my female friends to help out too, but I figured I would also ask for the opinion of you guys too.

[Gaeta]

You sound like a man who isn't afraid of variety that is good.

 

That being said always keep your first meeting very simple, a coffee & cake, a stroll with the dogs, nothing expensive. 99% of us will tell you to forget about dinner for a first meeting, keep it for a 2nd date. You will have many 1st meeting and it'll soon ruin you if you pick dinner as a first meeting.

 

Women have different taste, I like clean shaven others like a 3-4 day unshaven look. Some women like a man in jeans and t-shirt, I cannot stand t-shirts to me it's something to wear around the house but not when out and about.

 

There are women for every type of men so be yourself.

[Blind-Sided]

thanks again for the input.

 

 

If you don't like t-shirts... you would really hate mine. They are either "Free" promotional shirts, motorcycle related (from local events) or retro-gamming shirts that my kids keep getting me. (just got 2 new ones for my bday) Even though I wouldn't have bought them... they are still "Me", and since they are gifts from the kids... I wear them proudly. LOL.

 

 

But seriously... I see what you mean. Everyone likes different things. And that could be a stop on a potential partner too. I have a goatee, and generally like casual clothes. I may find someone I like, be she may not like the facial hair. But then again... if she is that superficial... I probably wouldn't wanted to be with her anyway.

 

 

Again... thanks.

[Mrin]

As a dude, here are my thoughts on first dates. Worked the a champ for me.

 

1. Date location: I often did either meal dates or drinks/coffee at a time where, if things went well, it could turn into a meal. E.g. 4-6pm or say 11am. I always picked a place that I thought she would enjoy. I always paid and usually let her know early in some fashion so she wouldn't be worrying about it throughout the date. NOTE: I didn't mind "investing" in a first date. Remember, my expectations were to just enjoy her company and get to know her. I am an extrovert and loved the company of intelligent attractive women.

 

2. Date attire: always dressed appropriately. As I always took the lead in deciding where the date was to be, I would let them know essentially what I would be wearing and what, if any, activities we might do. That way my date could pick out the appropriate attire and most importantly, shoes.

 

3. Date attire II: You sound super casual. Cargo shorts = no. No no no. No. It is okay to be casual but not sloppy. The message you want to convey is that you're making an effort to look good. So jeans and the t-shirt are fine. Just make sure they're nice jeans and a nice t-shirt. No holes, frayed necklines, stains.Have a decent pair of shoes/boots too. And for Pete's sake, shower, groom and smell good. If I were in charge of getting you "date ready" on the cheap this is what I'd do:

 

- two pairs of new jeans. You could totally bang out two pairs of CK jeans for under $45 at Costco

- 2 stylish t-shirts. Go with solid no designs or patterns

- 1 stylish golf shirt

- 1 pair of stylish sneakers. I am partial to Chuck Taylors

- 1 pair of casual leather boots for cold days if you don't already have them

- a casual but stylish jacket if you don't have one. I live in Colorado so something like a softshell in a neutral or dark color would be fine out here

 

4. One last thing: So... this has nothing to do with first dates but go ahead and get a full set of STD tests run and have the results handy. I realized this hasn't come up yet on this thread but don't be surprised if you're asked about this. Having a good answer to that question is FAR better than saying, "well, I was married for 20 years and I'm sure I don't have anything." That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee. And make sure you have some recently purchased condoms handy.

[rightondude]

by "Stocker-ish" do you mean Stalker or like a supermarket shelf stocker?

[mark clemson]

If/when you're going to go jeans suggest you go with light colored ones. These make your legs a bit more visible. If you're in good shape you want her to like what she sees if she checks out your legs a bit.

[Blind-Sided]

1. Date location: I often did either meal dates or drinks/coffee at a time where, if things went well, it could turn into a meal. E.g. 4-6pm or say 11am. ...... I am an extrovert and loved the company of intelligent attractive women.

 

 

Good idea... and I'm right with you on that. I can enjoy someone's company with out the need of "Are you the next one?"

 

3. Date attire II: You sound super casual. Cargo shorts = no. No no no. No. It is okay to be casual but not sloppy. ....... nice jeans and a nice t-shirt. No holes, frayed necklines, stains...... And for Pete's sake, shower, groom and smell good.

 

 

Yes on the super casual... but ok... I'm not a slob. LOL. I am a business professional, and even my kick'n around cloths are clean. I like shorts, but since the weather is turning cold... that's not going to be an issue anyway. Oh... and personal hygiene is a biggy for me. I shower every morning... and if I'm mowing the grass or doing something physical in the afternoon... I'll probably take a second one in the evening. I don't want to get my bed all nasty.

 

If I were in charge of getting you "date ready" on the cheap this is what I'd do:

 

- two pairs of new jeans. You could totally bang out two pairs of CK jeans for under $45 at Costco

- 2 stylish t-shirts. Go with solid no designs or patterns

- 1 stylish golf shirt

- 1 pair of stylish sneakers. I am partial to Chuck Taylors

- 1 pair of casual leather boots for cold days if you don't already have them

- a casual but stylish jacket if you don't have one. I live in Colorado so something like a softshell in a neutral or dark color would be fine out here

 

 

Already have that all covered. Hand full of non-printed T's, Half a dozen polo's in "Earthy" colors, New clean Sketchers for when I travel, Also, sketchers boots (they make great wide sizes) and Columbia and Taylor Made jackets to cover fall through winter.

 

Don't get me wrong... I have old coats to plow snow... muddy boots for the woods, and old tennis shoes to mow the grass. But I don't wear that in public.

 

4. One last thing: So... this has nothing to do with first dates but go ahead and get a full set of STD tests run and have the results handy. I realized this hasn't come up yet on this thread but don't be surprised if you're asked about this. Having a good answer to that question is FAR better than saying, "well, I was married for 20 years and I'm sure I don't have anything." That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee. And make sure you have some recently purchased condoms handy.

 

First of all... if you are only paying $2 for coffee... then you are getting some nasty coffee! LOL. sorry, couldn't resist. I was actually checked when I went in for surgery on "The boys" recently. Haven't been with anyone since. And yes... I should go get stocked up on the protection.

 

by "Stocker-ish" do you mean Stalker or like a supermarket shelf stocker?

Like... She will sleep with you on the first date, but then have to worry she is watching you the next day. LOL.

 

Thanks guys.

[MountainGirl111]

 

 

 

 

 

I simply can't do stupid. LOL.

 

 

 

 

^^^^

.

 

I got a kick out of this...^^^^^It' more than 50% mental, IMO.Maybe even higher percentage than that...

 

Yes she could be going through perimenopause....or getting into a midlife crisis, even. If seen a number of marriages crumble because of this. I don't know that we even know what it would be like til we hit it ourselves. Men go through midlife crises too and what seems all of a sudden to the wife they want to trade her in for a newer model. Happens all the time. She may have "all the sudden" blind-sided you because she's having a midlife crisis. It can be very damaging to marriages...as they do things that are totally out of character. Pent up resentment break through, etc. And rather than take ownership for the "changes" that are really going on inside their own self, they make you out to be the "monster" for everything you've supposedly done wrong over the years....and making your kids afraid of you[?], etc, etc.

 

No imbalance of power from your view perhaps, but if she perceived an imbalance of power that could be enough to tip the scale... enough for her not to feel she could speak up for what she felt was lacking.

 

Did she show you love? Was she cold?

 

Going forward....if you do decide to date now, rather than wait...you're probably going to want a woman who will be more assertive and open with communication. I think it's important to go ahead and reflect [maybe you're already doing this} on what was wrong with your marriage so you don't end up with someone like your ex. But if you end up comparing your dates to your ex too much that can be a problem too.

[Calmandfocused]

Haven’t read the replies so sorry if I’m regurgitating what others have said.

 

1) stop with the “baggage” analogy especially when it comes to children. A lot of women won’t thank you for it. I have 2 boys age 8 and 6. Whilst I’m aware that a woman with kids is not every man’s cup of tea, my boys are as asset to me, not a disadvantage. Any man would be privileged to have my boys love as well as mine. You need to change your thinking here.

 

2) leave your children completely out of your dating life. Yes you are a father but you’re also an individual with his own needs and desires. You’ve no need to get your daughters consent, nor do you need to tell them that’s what you’re doing. It’s none of their business. I’d go further and say that you need to be dating at least a year before you even contemplate introducing your children to your partner.

 

3) keep an open mind. You’re putting way too much pressure on yourself to date the right woman straight away. Why don’t you chil out, date around a bit and you might be pleasantly surprised by someone. You can’t judge feelings and connection on statistics,

[Blind-Sided]

......... Did she show you love? Was she cold?

 

No... she didn't grow cold. It truly was the way I posted. I came back from a biz trip... she seemed mad... and a few days later, she exploded. We were even having (more or less) normal levels of intimacy. And it wasn't just going through the actions. She was enjoying, and was able to O. But over the last year... I've seen bipolar tendencies.

 

Going forward....if you do decide to date now, rather than wait...you're probably going to want a woman who will be more assertive and open with communication. I think it's important to go ahead and reflect [maybe you're already doing this} on what was wrong with your marriage so you don't end up with someone like your ex. But if you end up comparing your dates to your ex too much that can be a problem too.

Without a doubt, I will want someone who will communicate with me. But on some level... I thought she was. I guess you really never know someone. But thanks for all the input and help.

 

Haven’t read the replies so sorry if I’m regurgitating what others have said.

 

1) stop with the “baggage” analogy ......

 

2) leave your children completely out of your dating life. ........

 

3) keep an open mind. .....,

 

1) I have. I've come to the conclusion that I have that same baggage. Age, not perfect looks, not a "Young" body... and I have kids.

 

2) I am

 

3) It's been a year... I'm ready. (sort of) It's not like I'm going to hit the dating sites, and go on a bunch of meaningless dates. I'm going to let it happen organically for now.

 

Thanks for the input.

[MountainGirl111]

No... she didn't grow cold. It truly was the way I posted. I came back from a biz trip... she seemed mad... and a few days later, she exploded. We were even having (more or less) normal levels of intimacy. And it wasn't just going through the actions. She was enjoying, and was able to O. But over the last year... I've seen bipolar tendencies.

 

Without a doubt, I will want someone who will communicate with me. But on some level... I thought she was. I guess you really never know someone. But thanks for all the input and help.

 

 

 

.

 

The way you've described her it almost sounds like she was convinced you were being unfaithful and maybe she thought you were unfaithful on your biz trip...maybe she was cheating while you were on your biz trip and her AP was putting pressure on her.

 

Maybe she IS bi polar....although that dx seems to be assigned too easily these days...heck....everyone's bi polar and some people are PROUD of it...or they use it as an excuse for their moods...so if you think she seemed bi polar...she must have been moody...any chance she was into drugs/ETOH...that can mess with peoples' moods...

[Blind-Sided]

The way you've described her it almost sounds like she was convinced you were being unfaithful and maybe she thought you were unfaithful on your biz trip...

That has never been a question, and it's never come up. Sure, I guess that could be going through her head, but she knows I have a serious issue with it. (like on the same level as killing in my mind)

 

 

maybe she was cheating while you were on your biz trip and her AP was putting pressure on her.

At first, I was absolutely sure that she wouldn't do that. But now, I can track a burner phone back to around Feb, and my youngest kid has dropped a name a while ago. It could be a possibility, but I don't have solid proof. Honestly, I think it's more of a cause and effect kind of thing now. She had some instability, and a couple friends who are just bad people push her the wrong way. Then while she was weak, she hooked up with someone, and that's when she had no interest in working on things. Funny thing though... as of a couple weeks ago... I still have confirmation that she has both phones. (The burner, and her original) Why? The last time I saw it, it was actually funny in my mind. We were both of a girl scout meeting, and filling out new contact info. She was on the other side of the table, and she kept looking up at me. (I have excellent peripheral vision) and she kind of snuck it up above the table to read something on it.

 

Maybe she IS bi polar....although that dx seems to be assigned too easily these days......

Sure. She wasn't diagnosed with it... as far as I know. But it's what I saw. (Extreme mood swings without a reason) But honestly... that's no longer my concern. But, I've been asking my youngest kid if mommy has been angry for no reason while she is with her... because that is my concern. (Safety of my kids) Edited November 5, 2019 by Blind-Sided