3rd time (date) the charm for physical contact?

[max3732]

No need to explain these moments. You just want to be able to react to them. Basically it is these moments where you might try a bit of an experiment. You want to make clear in these moments that you are feeling great, really enjoying your time on the date.

 

Anything from "Wow, I love this story." ... to "Love this story. You have a great voice." ... The point is you are being honest ... reacting to what you really like ... but also you're signaling to her what interests you ... what excites you. So she gets key information, and she can react to your enthusiasm.

 

Definitely try to react during these great moments. There's no guarantee here, but you will be giving your date important info.

 

Thanks! I will make a mental note to let her know I'm enjoying those kinds of moments and hopefully it will go well.

 

I also did an internet search for flirting techniques and there is so much information and it seems so complicated. It's kind of overwhelming to try and integrate it into my conversations without making me nervous and tense.

[Inspire]

A lot of good advice has already been given but I want to add this. The longer you wait, the more awkward it will become. Just bite the bullet and go for it. Don't overthink it, just act on it.

[Lotsgoingon]

Lots of flirting advice is too generic ... flirting has to be something you're comfortable doing right now.

 

Expressing interest in the middle of a conversation can be a strong form of flirting.

[max3732]

Lots of flirting advice is too generic ... flirting has to be something you're comfortable doing right now.

 

Expressing interest in the middle of a conversation can be a strong form of flirting.

 

That's something I think I can do. Some of the advice is to do things like "playfully tease her" by doing minor insults and that's just not my personality. If I like someone I'm not going to call her clumsy or make fun of her hair or whatever.

[Versacehottie]

There's lots of things you can do that are PLAYFUL, or nice teasing (even funny self-deprecating where you are essentially teasing yourself in her presence) without being insulting. I think doing some stuff like that creates a closer and more fun connection.

 

You're right though: I don't think doing the little insults is good. Most smart girls see right through that.

 

Also you have to be true to your personality but at the same time be "moved" enough by your connection with whichever girl that you are more free, more emotionally close, more insight into your true personality than you would be with an average person in your life. I think you need to play things a little less like a straight arrow (or stretch yourself) or date girls that bring that out in you. I think someone mentioned earlier on this thread "do you really like her or are you basically going through the motions"--I would agree with that. I think you can go on a ton of first and second dates to gather experience for yourself but much beyond that with a person that you don't have a real connection with tends to emphasize the fact that there is not a connection/chemistry there and might even derail the positive things you are taking from first and second dates where you are gaining knowledge and confidence, exploring yourself as a dater and other people as potential girlfriends.

 

That's my take on it. Goodluck

[Lotsgoingon]

To build on Versace, yes, you can see dating as a learning experience. It really is that if we allow it to be.

 

On letting yourself react to really great moments of the date ... I was out with a friend of mine about a year ago. She and I are close, but something happened on this one meeting and we're now closer than ever (and still in good friend zone). She shared this one story, and I howled with laughter. And then she reacted by expanding on the story and telling a similar story. I howled some more.

 

She said she didn't realize the stories were so funny until I started laughing. This helped our friendship because she got my sense of humor, and she saw how her stories were more insightful and funny than she thought. That kind of thing can happen on dates.

 

What might help you is to walk into dates knowing that your interests are worthy, your curiosity is worthy ... you are worthy ... your passions are worthy ... you're NOT looking to impress ... you're looking to share to see who likes you--and that YOU like at the same time. A good exercise: write down ten of your strengths and really connect with those.

 

Don't rule people out so quickly based on online photos. I just finished a project with two women ... both are wonderful ... smart, witty, kind ... savvy ... great storytellers. Other women, usually older, involved in the project commented on how wonderful these two women were and how great they looked. I smartly kept my mouth shut on that and simply complimented their work on the project. Anyway, I saw photos of these two women recently ... Their photos didn't come anywhere close to capturing their charisma and beauty. Not even close.

 

Understand that someone with a great personality and good energy ... who genuinely likes you ... genuinely finds you interesting ... can quickly become a lot more attractive with no willful effort on your part. You're looking for people you feel great with when you're around them.

[max3732]

....Don't rule people out so quickly based on online photos. I just finished a project with two women ... both are wonderful ... smart, witty, kind ... savvy ... great storytellers. Other women, usually older, involved in the project commented on how wonderful these two women were and how great they looked. I smartly kept my mouth shut on that and simply complimented their work on the project. Anyway, I saw photos of these two women recently ... Their photos didn't come anywhere close to capturing their charisma and beauty. Not even close..

 

What you mentioned about pictures is definitely true. I've decided that with these apps I'll message /swipe on anyone that looks remotely interesting. Even with that there are so few that send anything back and just getting to meet any of them is difficult.

 

My last girlfriend I really didn't care much for at first and when I met her I was actually pursuing a couple other women. Once I got to know her I really liked her and dating her was an incredible experience. Something that she said was how genuine and kind I am even though she could tell I'm really smart. One of the great things about meeting her in grad school was you interact in all kinds of environments.

 

Now it's just messaging these women based on their profile interests, pictures, etc. Then if they don't like you in the first 5 minutes they never see you again, whereas in college or work you're there all the time and can recover from 1 bad comment. That's why I normally feel so nervous on these dates.

 

I definitely don't want to settle so you're right I need to change my mindset to seeing if they're right for me and not trying to make them like me.

 

Honestly the only place I meet women IRL where I can talk to them (besides interacting with store employees or other service jobs) is at the grocery store. That's where I sometimes see attractive women, but they just run around grabbing stuff from the shelves. I've managed to talk to a few if they stop to look at something for a while I know something about, but they have all been undergrads so far. I wish I could talk to the ones that are just walking through grabbing items.

 

Also, on a weekend trip I saw someone in front of me with a really nice camera and a shirt with something I'm interested in and I struck up a conversation with her and both of us seemed to be pretty excited during it. Again though she was way too young as she was in her early 20s and there with her mom. I'm almost 40 now.

Edited November 9, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Lotsgoingon]

Next time turn to mom and say, "Hey, are you OK with me asking your daughter for her number?"'

 

More seriously, talking to people is great practice, whether they are young or old ... great practice and in my experience, it makes me feel better and more socially confident.

 

It's amazing how striking up a short conversation ... and getting a decent response ... really gets me in a great mood.

 

And you improve your social skills.

[max3732]

Yep. It really helped get me in a great mood for the rest of the day. I stood behind her feeling frozen and when I saw she had so many things I could talk about I finally got the courage up to talk to her. She seemed so excited to talk to me.

 

I just wish I had more opportunities like that. If I had conversations like that every week I think my confidence would go up.

 

Back to the woman I went out with twice I'm going to ask her out again and just see how things go.

Edited November 9, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Malin889]

.....Girls typically do it the other way around. Emotional connection > then physical contact. Not like guys: physical contact > then possible emotional connection....

 

Agree! Us ladies want an emotional connection before a physical one. I’ve had guys kiss me on the first date and I’ve felt so uncomfortable because we are still getting to know each other. I’d much rather someone wait until we get to know each other better, at least a few dates, that way it’s more special.

Edited November 9, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Versacehottie]

Agree! Us ladies want an emotional connection before a physical one. I’ve had guys kiss me on the first date and I’ve felt so uncomfortable because we are still getting to know each other. I’d much rather someone wait until we get to know each other better, at least a few dates, that way it’s more special.

 

Guys could kiss on the first date and often do and it's welcomed; it's just that if the emotional connection needs to be created for the most part. That can happen in 5 minutes or 5 dates. Often very dependent on how confident the guy is that he has every right to be there on that date, i.e. sure of himself and understanding, creating and picking up on conversational clues & cues and nonverbal cues that let him know that this connection is happening.

 

If OP goes a little slower in creating this connection, as in it takes more dates in which it happens due to how he is and the typical girls he takes out, i don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. It can be perfectly aligned and fine with the people involved--maybe even very sweet and indicating to the girl that he is serious about a relationship with her. The thing that pretty much is the same whether or not physical escalation happens is that if you don't create the emotional connection for most girls, it's a risk that she can become disinterested. Like if first date is flat. Ultimately you can also get somewhere physically but not create an emotional connection and most likely the relationship will fall flat. Girls will make allowances if someone is shy or more reserved--chances are she probably already suspected that and agreeing to a second date usually means on some level she is ok with it. This really goes for both genders in the long run about having an emotional connection. It really goes back to being genuine, feeling increasingly connected to someone. That's up to the OP and his date to create that between themselves & then things happen organically.

[Blind-Sided]

.............Back to the woman I went out with twice I'm going to ask her out again and just see how things go.

 

 

In my younger years... when I wasn't able to REALY read a girl... I would simply say... "Can I kiss you?" This does a few things... it will let you know what they are really thinking... especially the shy girls. Also... it shows that you respect her enough to ask, and not just "Attack". LOL. I remember one time... I was at a party at a friend's house... and his little sister was there. (she was 19 or so, I was 22) And we wound up spending the night together. She liked me, but was too shy to approach me.

 

 

From there... it's an easy read. If she was more reserved, and looks excited about the question... you will have a good date. If she say no... well... you know where that's going. BUT... if she is on the fence... a good kiss could turn the tables. So... soft, no tongue, but not just a "Peck", and try to have you hand on her back, or supporting her head.

 

 

Good luck, and have fun.

[Versacehottie]

Lol, i feel like we need to have the girls in this forum answer a poll about the "can I kiss you?" question/tactic.

 

As I mentioned in one of my replies earlier, i think it's dreaded and kind of lame. Sorry:eek: To me, it implies a lack of confidence and that the guy is overly cautious about the physical connection--one reason being is that she has NOT given any outright signals that it is welcome and he's failed to create the flirtatious environment where it would be welcomed. On the other hand, and also bad IMO, is that it implies that "getting to" first base, let's say, is on the agenda of the guy and he's using it as a benchmark of success with said girl--ie this is the opposite of it happening organically and being swept up, which like i said before, girls seriously have hours long conversations over this sh*t. So if a guy is confident otherwise and does this, it makes the girl feel slightly used or forced to perform or if he's shy, it automatically puts him into lame and he's got me on a pedestal (i.e. not equals) category.

 

Maybe other girls don't agree with me. All of my girl friends and I are on the same page, pretty adamantly about this one though. If she already likes you, it's probably ok/could slide but would be in the con category when summing up the date IMO. But if she already likes you, you would be having those signals already and wouldn't need to ask. If she's undecided, then just waiting until the time and situation is right typically create good tension. And if it was never going to happen, it will never happen.

 

any other women want to weigh in?

[max3732]

Lol, i feel like we need to have the girls in this forum answer a poll about the "can I kiss you?" question/tactic.

 

As I mentioned in one of my replies earlier, i think it's dreaded and kind of lame. Sorry:eek: To me, it implies a lack of confidence and that the guy is overly cautious about the physical connection--one reason being is that she has NOT given any outright signals that it is welcome and he's failed to create the flirtatious environment where it would be welcomed. On the other hand, and also bad IMO, is that it implies that "getting to" first base, let's say, is on the agenda of the guy and he's using it as a benchmark of success with said girl--ie this is the opposite of it happening organically and being swept up, which like i said before, girls seriously have hours long conversations over this sh*t. So if a guy is confident otherwise and does this, it makes the girl feel slightly used or forced to perform or if he's shy, it automatically puts him into lame and he's got me on a pedestal (i.e. not equals) category.

 

Maybe other girls don't agree with me. All of my girl friends and I are on the same page, pretty adamantly about this one though. If she already likes you, it's probably ok/could slide but would be in the con category when summing up the date IMO. But if she already likes you, you would be having those signals already and wouldn't need to ask. If she's undecided, then just waiting until the time and situation is right typically create good tension. And if it was never going to happen, it will never happen.

 

any other women want to weigh in?

 

Well my date with her is at the end of the week so I'm anxious to hear other thoughts. She does seem to me more of the reserved type. To be honest I'm still on the fence about her, but at the very least I can practice being around someone I'm somewhat interested in. It's definitely still a possibility that I could become more interested in her.

 

From the posts here it seems like my main goal should be to look for moments when we both seem excited and draw attention to that. It's just tough for me to try and relax and be myself while also trying to do the harmless touching mentioned earlier and also think of ways to tease her or whatever else flirting entails.

 

Also, do I need to keep paying for everything or by the 3rd date can we start splitting? I'm not trying to be cheap, but also don't want to get taken advantage of and just want to follow basic customs.

Edited November 10, 2019 by max3732

[max3732]

Lol, i feel like we need to have the girls in this forum answer a poll about the "can I kiss you?" question/tactic.

 

As I mentioned in one of my replies earlier, i think it's dreaded and kind of lame. Sorry:eek: To me, it implies a lack of confidence and that the guy is overly cautious about the physical connection--one reason being is that she has NOT given any outright signals that it is welcome and he's failed to create the flirtatious environment where it would be welcomed. On the other hand, and also bad IMO, is that it implies that "getting to" first base, let's say, is on the agenda of the guy and he's using it as a benchmark of success with said girl--ie this is the opposite of it happening organically and being swept up, which like i said before, girls seriously have hours long conversations over this sh*t. So if a guy is confident otherwise and does this, it makes the girl feel slightly used or forced to perform or if he's shy, it automatically puts him into lame and he's got me on a pedestal (i.e. not equals) category.

 

Maybe other girls don't agree with me. All of my girl friends and I are on the same page, pretty adamantly about this one though. If she already likes you, it's probably ok/could slide but would be in the con category when summing up the date IMO. But if she already likes you, you would be having those signals already and wouldn't need to ask. If she's undecided, then just waiting until the time and situation is right typically create good tension. And if it was never going to happen, it will never happen.

 

any other women want to weigh in?

 

If you don't think it's right for a man to ask a woman to kiss then what about saying something like "you make me want to kiss you", "you're pretty enough to kiss" or something like that? Or what about talking about romantic scenes in movies and bringing up something where the guy was nervous about kissing the woman?

[Versacehottie]

Hmmm well you need to lower the stakes. You are already unsure about her--if anything, that should make the nerves go away. Be less attached to the outcome and the goal.

 

Again, to be honest, if you don't have a real connection and are essentially "practicing" your social dating skills, you should be less invested in the outcome, i.e. you don't know that you really care about her already, so essentially you should be less nervous. Latch onto that. That said, the lack of a genuine connection and slight obsession with getting somewhere physically is bound to make things a little stiff. My advice would be to GENUINELY try to connect with her and go from there. I don't think it necessarily matters if it's for an evening or for a lifetime. In your case as you've described it, I think focus on for the evening and this particular girl--put the future and your personal goals about physicality to the side--they will take care of themselves if you focus on giving "good date".

 

Get out of your head and LISTEN to what she is saying. Try to give a PLAYFUL answer (within your range) vs a literal one when responding to her stories or answering a question.

 

Ethically, because there is the chance that you are doing this for your own growth and practice, to me, you should be paying for the date. Also it's 3 dates in and you have presented yourself as a gentleman. Idk, others might disagree with this but i think it's better karma than having her pay for half or all of it when you are on the fence about her. Plus you asked her. If you want her to split or pay, let her ask you. Just my opinion. Good luck

[Versacehottie]

If you don't think it's right for a man to ask a woman to kiss then what about saying something like "you make me want to kiss you", "you're pretty enough to kiss" or something like that? Or what about talking about romantic scenes in movies and bringing up something where the guy was nervous about kissing the woman?

 

Yes to the bolded. Personally, i think that works

 

No to referring to a scene in a movie where a guy is scared to kiss a woman. Though I guess it's ok if you said it at dinner or during the date--well before the actual moment you are hoping to kiss her. Just my opinion.

 

I generally think you want to show that you are not intimidated or scared or that she is on uneven playing field with you. You want to show that something about her, or the moment together compels you to kiss her or contemplate it. If a guy is scared to kiss, it's kind of unsexy and draws attention to THAT fact and the uneven playing field. IMO, it's ok to be a little awkward but that speaks to more of the fact that it's the first kiss with each other and you are unknown to each other in that way. And just a very little not a lot awkward lol

 

I almost think a pounce might do you good (well if it doesn't traumatize you if she is not welcoming). Basically you need to just jump off the ledge. There is probably no simple way to do it if you are in your head so much. Well unless you meet a girl who kisses you. I do think perhaps the more reserved environment that has been created between you two thus far makes this scenario unlikely. Though she could be frustrated and say to you: are you going to kiss me? Which I do know a handful of girls who have gotten to this point--however, the clear difference, was these couples had genuine and real chemistry, flirtatious conversations etc--like it was obvious that it would happen at some point and the girls just couldn't figure out why it was taking so long (typically because the guy saw them as girlfriend material and didn't want to blow it). Ok, my strongest advice is the first couple paragraphs--the pounce is the hail mary

[fromheart]

Again though she was way too young as she was in her early 20s and there with her mom. I'm almost 40 now.

 

 

Why is this too young? A woman in her physical peak and prime child bearing years isn't too young. Women grow up quicker than men emotionally.

[fromheart]

If you don't think it's right for a man to ask a woman to kiss then what about saying something like "you make me want to kiss you", "you're pretty enough to kiss" or something like that? Or what about talking about romantic scenes in movies and bringing up something where the guy was nervous about kissing the woman?

 

 

Just go for the kiss. Have you told her she's beautiful? How did she react? Has she done anything at all to suggest that she likes you more than just a friend at this point?

 

First date I'd be looking into her eyes, telling her she's beautiful, kissing her. If I'd thought there'd be no response, I wouldn't have dated her in the first place.

 

It sounds like you are creating buddy situations, and hoping to suddenly change them into romantic situations maybe?

[max3732]

Just go for the kiss. Have you told her she's beautiful? How did she react? Has she done anything at all to suggest that she likes you more than just a friend at this point?

 

First date I'd be looking into her eyes, telling her she's beautiful, kissing her. If I'd thought there'd be no response, I wouldn't have dated her in the first place.

 

It sounds like you are creating buddy situations, and hoping to suddenly change them into romantic situations maybe?

 

No, I haven't told her she's beautiful or anything like that. She's told me a lot about her job as well as how she got into it, her family, childhood, etc. How do you go about telling her she's beautiful and kissing her? Do you just work it into the conversation?

 

Both times we've met were at a restaurant. Just logistically I can't reach across the table in front of everyone. Or do you do this as you're walking to the car? This next date is at the movies so there might be more opportunities.

[Zinging]

No, I haven't told her she's beautiful or anything like that. She's told me a lot about her job as well as how she got into it, her family, childhood, etc. How do you go about telling her she's beautiful and kissing her? Do you just work it into the conversation?

 

Both times we've met were at a restaurant. Just logistically I can't reach across the table in front of everyone. Or do you do this as you're walking to the car? This next date is at the movies so there might be more opportunities.

 

New poster to Loveshack, but a silent lurker for a long time and a member of other relationship forums too.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way - you seem slightly hesitant. And from what you've written above, there doesn't seem to be a very 'flirty' tone to your dates yet. So, I'm not sure how the going for the kiss scenario might pan out since we don't know her.

 

Going for the kiss.

Imagine a confident man who treats a woman like a gentleman but has a take-it-or-leave-it attitude, someone who dresses to the 10s, leaves sentences hanging with a debonair smile and can read a lady's cues like it was written on paper - now, him going for the kiss will more often that not be met with a woman melting in his arms.

Most women love a confident man. I do. Heck, it's the stuff of most romance movies and fiction.

But unless you can carry it off, with a natural air of confidence, going for a kiss without knowing where she's at, can backfire.

 

Asking for a kiss

Unfortunately, if you can't head for a kiss, the other option seems to be asking before diving into one. For men, it puts a practical spin on breaking those first mysterious barriers. For some women, it de-romanticises what's meant that same mysterious barrier.

That said, I saw this query posted recently on reddit. And I was suprised at how many women actually appreciated a guy who 'asked' for a kiss.

If you are not naturally confident, this might work with the subsect of girls who appreciate that not all men are natural daters, and even like a little goofy charm.

 

Mentioning it.

"I think I'd like to kiss you..."

"Sorry, but I can't take my eyes off your lips... they're far too pretty"

"My thoughts seem to have blanked out... maybe because I just want to kiss you now..."

A happy medium between the two. But, if you're not confident this could come across a little funny, rather than romantic. Maybe practise it in front of the mirror a couple of times? Once you know how to confidently express yourself (dropping a hint) without making it seem like a question, this should work very well.

 

Silent cues

(My favourite!)

Unless a guy is uber-confident with the words (no shaky voice/stutters/gulping/staring at his shoes etc), I'd recommend doing the silent cues. I can't see this backfiring, since you make it seem like you're taking the first step but you're actually giving her a chance to turn things down.

Once the dinner's over and you walk over to a quieter spot - say, her car - let there be a second or two when nothing's said. Start small... tucking a hair behind her ear... taking a few fingers of hers in your palm and then her whole hand... if she recoils, you've got your answer - but, you will not come across as creepy.

 

Then, graze her cheek with a thumb. Escalate to holding it. Wait a second, so she still knows she can step back. If she doesn't, voila - you've got your answer. Don't break eye-contact throughout any of it. Gives the message, "I know what I want. I'm making sure it's what you want too!"

 

 

Wishing you all the best with your upcoming date.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Zinging

[fromheart]

No, I haven't told her she's beautiful or anything like that. She's told me a lot about her job as well as how she got into it, her family, childhood, etc. How do you go about telling her she's beautiful and kissing her? Do you just work it into the conversation?

 

Both times we've met were at a restaurant. Just logistically I can't reach across the table in front of everyone. Or do you do this as you're walking to the car? This next date is at the movies so there might be more opportunities.

 

Im not being sarcastic when I ask this question. Have you kissed a girl before?

[lavenderandvelvet]

There is nothing stranger than a man who has zero things to break the touch barrier going in for a kiss.

 

You need to build up to a kiss with smaller touches.

 

You are going to the movies, great. Hold the door open for her, and as she goes in touch her lightly to guide her on her back.

 

While you are waiting for snacks, touch her on the arm when you are talking.

 

If she reacts positively, you can start trying to touch the back of her hand. Maybe offer your elbow as your are walking.

 

Make sure you build on this before you try to kiss her.

[max3732]

Im not being sarcastic when I ask this question. Have you kissed a girl before?

 

Yes and no. I've never in my life initiated a 1st kiss with a girl. With my only really serious girlfriend she kissed me the first time. After that I initiated a lot of kisses with her, but knew she was receptive to it. It's so hard for me to meet a stranger and then after seeing her a few times try to go in and kiss her.

 

I wish I could be like the guys in the romance shows or books, but I think with my lack of experience I just don't know what I'm doing. Hence why I posted on here for help

[fromheart]

Don't bother with the shows or books, its all BS.

 

There's no perfect technique... maybe just ask her? Worked for me many times.

Edited November 16, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited