max3732 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 This woman I went out with where I thought I had messed things up agreed to go out with me again and I took her to a restaurant both times. First was a casual place for dinner, second was a bit nicer place for lunch. The 2nd date my goal was to stop being so nervous that I'd blurt out stupid things and I did that. The whole time I stayed relaxed and just told myself to enjoy the lunch and her company. Shortly after we parted ways she sent me a text saying she had a great time and would like to see me again, which obviously I'm taking to be a good sign. However, I haven't held her hand or touched her in any way besides a hug when greeting and saying goodbye. So for the 3rd date I want to do something other than a restaurant and figure out how to at least hold her hand and maybe go for a real kiss. At this point would a movie be ok and then I can try and put my arm around her? What kind of date should I suggest and how do I start making physical contact? This has been my nemesis for years!
Versacehottie Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Listen, you don't strike me as someone just out for physical contact or sex. However, your focus on it as a benchmark is going to trip you up IMO. You have to let a date unfold and be genuine and organic, especially if your nerves are getting in the way. I think a movie is easier because you sit side by side however harder because you are going to have to break away from the focus/action/attention being on the show in front of you to make your move. Same with restaurant dates, you are across the table and it's more stiff and formal (in general). Try something active, walking type date or a restaurant where you are positive that you will be in a round booth or side by side. Proximity and creating possibilities where it can happen is what you need to do. Another stiff type date is not the answer IMO, unless you plan on walking or doing something with more casual proximity before or after. ps whatever you do don't announce that you want to kiss her or ask if you can. 2
smackie9 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 It's not about "OK it's the 3rd date, time to hold her hand!" You need to gauge when to make a move by reading her body language, like does she lean in close when talking to you, touch your hand, lean into you while walking together, is there warm eye contact, smiling, pulling her hair behind her ear, arms not crossed, is she flirty, dresses a little sexy, etc. All these things you need to analyze that signals you to be closer or not. If she isn't romantically responsive, you are going to get a cheek when you go in for a kiss, or pulling her hand away. 3
Mrin Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Take her to a museum - art preferably. Plenty of opportunities for hand holding or a gentle hand in the small of her back to guide her through the museum. 2
d0nnivain Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Any date where there will be movement is good -- strolling through the museum or even mini golf. Perhaps you can help her line up her stance, although that may be more physical contact then either of you are comfy with. The movies would be OK. Try brushing your hand on the small of back as you guide her through any door you open for her. If helping her out of the car, offer your hand just to breech the touch barrier.
kendahke Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 This woman I went out with where I thought I had messed things up agreed to go out with me again and I took her to a restaurant both times. First was a casual place for dinner, second was a bit nicer place for lunch. The 2nd date my goal was to stop being so nervous that I'd blurt out stupid things and I did that. The whole time I stayed relaxed and just told myself to enjoy the lunch and her company. Shortly after we parted ways she sent me a text saying she had a great time and would like to see me again, which obviously I'm taking to be a good sign. However, I haven't held her hand or touched her in any way besides a hug when greeting and saying goodbye. So for the 3rd date I want to do something other than a restaurant and figure out how to at least hold her hand and maybe go for a real kiss. At this point would a movie be ok and then I can try and put my arm around her? What kind of date should I suggest and how do I start making physical contact? This has been my nemesis for years! Any bands you both mutually like who are playing out this weekend? Music is always a good choice. 1
basil67 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Max, you need to read her body language. We can give you a hundred tips on how to make physical contact, but if she doesn't want it, your contact will be unwelcome. 1
Author max3732 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Posted October 28, 2019 Listen, you don't strike me as someone just out for physical contact or sex. However, your focus on it as a benchmark is going to trip you up IMO. You have to let a date unfold and be genuine and organic, especially if your nerves are getting in the way. I think a movie is easier because you sit side by side however harder because you are going to have to break away from the focus/action/attention being on the show in front of you to make your move. Same with restaurant dates, you are across the table and it's more stiff and formal (in general). Try something active, walking type date or a restaurant where you are positive that you will be in a round booth or side by side. Proximity and creating possibilities where it can happen is what you need to do. Another stiff type date is not the answer IMO, unless you plan on walking or doing something with more casual proximity before or after. ps whatever you do don't announce that you want to kiss her or ask if you can. The reason I keep thinking about it is in the back of my head the fact I've been afraid to do something for years is why I keep getting into the friendzone. I know how to be friends with someone, but I don't know how to make things romantic. Another situation I remember is I took someone out to dinner and we went for a walk at night and were sitting by the water on a bench and I kept thinking I should do something, but couldn't figure out what to do. The next time I contacted her she said she just saw me as a friend.
Lotsgoingon Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 She suggested meeting again. That is a good sign as far as her interest goes. But I'm still not getting a strong vibe that you really like her. Assuming you do, there is literally no schedule for touching someone. Don't force that ... Be clear that you want to keep seeing her first. Are you enthusiastic about seeing this woman again? Let the touch take care of itself. If you guys are couples material, you will get your hands on each other. 1
The Outlaw Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 I'll second d0nnivain with minigolf. Even if you're not good at it, it will loosen the two of you up and you'll have more fun. Try it then if you feel comfortable or if she's giving the signal to do so. But you'll never know unless you try. If she's receptive, great. If she isn't, consider it a win because you took the chance. In any case, good luck. 1
Versacehottie Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 The reason I keep thinking about it is in the back of my head the fact I've been afraid to do something for years is why I keep getting into the friendzone. I know how to be friends with someone, but I don't know how to make things romantic. Another situation I remember is I took someone out to dinner and we went for a walk at night and were sitting by the water on a bench and I kept thinking I should do something, but couldn't figure out what to do. The next time I contacted her she said she just saw me as a friend. Ahhhhh but you're thinking like a guy. You think not getting physical is the reason you end up in the friend zone. It's not with the majority of the girls. Not creating an environment and dynamic between you two that is flirty and connected will get you somewhere physically AND out of the friend zone. Girls typically do it the other way around. Emotional connection > then physical contact. Not like guys: physical contact > then possible emotional connection. If you pounce on a girl or fail to do the emotional, environment dynamic before the physicality, I would bet you will also end up in the friend zone or dumped. You MUST work on creating the flirtiness, playfulness. Being yourself NOT worrying about an agenda (that frankly is a bit arbitrary in nature) is going to help you more than a robotic strategy to get to the kiss zone. The flirt zone IS the kiss zone. It starts with the mind for most women and guessing the one you are dating for sure. ps you can still guide by the back or do little touches on hand, leg or arm to show that you are confident and sure of yourself and a guy who is a gentlemen. We like that if you've read the body language correctly and it will be received well. That's why everyone keeps saying read the body language and look at the signals--those are the clues that she is liking what you are giving her emotionally. Don't put the cart before the horse It's the kiss of death (pun intended) to look like you are going through a set of actions to simply feel like you are trying to get somewhere physically. Do nothing by rote. If you are a cocky or confident guy, it will make you look like you just want sex. If you are a shy guy, it will make you look frozen, forced and awkward. You want to take away the FORCED, unnatural quality. The part that "just happens" that "couldn't be helped", that flows with the rest of what is going on (like a dance) is the sh*t girls spend hours talking about. That is what you need to achieve. READ HER BODY LANGUAGE. CONFIDENTLY MAKE HER HAVE FUN. FORGET ABOUT THE KISS OR TOUCHING HER IF YOU ARE MAKING HER HAVE FUN IN A FLIRTY WAY SHE WILL GIVE YOU SIGNALS. Good luck 1
preraph Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 No, not time for sex since you haven't made any other physical contact. Next time, kiss her goodnight after the date when you drop her off at her place, and that is it. You have to both get comfortable with physical contact taking it a step at a time.
Versacehottie Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 I also think mini golf or bowling is a fun date. You sit side by side when you sit down. There's a lot of moving around so it can be natural to bump into each other (that's usually how physical touch starts to happen, especially with shy ones). Physicality in the body individually often translates into excitement overall. It's less stagnant if you think about it (compared to a static dinner date--which isn't bad but you want to rev up the physicality). It's competitive which can be playful. It's silly and sweet which can be great.
basil67 Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 Next time, kiss her goodnight after the date when you drop her off at her place, and that is it. Only if you get the vibe that she's lingering and not wanting to say goodbye for the evening. If she just says "see ya, thanks for the evening" and walks off, don't try. 2
d0nnivain Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 I took someone out to dinner and we went for a walk at night and were sitting by the water on a bench and I kept thinking I should do something, but couldn't figure out what to do. The next time I contacted her she said she just saw me as a friend. A walk after dinner is considered romantic. Had you paid attention to your date's body language she was most likely expecting you to hold her hand as you walked along, put your arm around her as you sat on the bench & possibly after you had done those things, kissed her. Since you did none of that she concluded that you wanted to be friends only. Do you have trouble reading people's body language? As we have said you need to make sure she's open to physical touching before you try it whether the 1st date, the 3rd date or beyond. If you can't read body language start learning. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 This is a tough one. My guess is that there is no real chemistry between them, no real spark. And both Max and his partner are ignoring that because ... well, they like each other, find each other perfectly pleasant. Max, if your goal is to have sex with someone, then yes, being more aggressive up front would signal your goal ... and there are people who would go for that. If your goal is to have a serious relationship, I don't thinking being more "aggressive" works. The reason you aren't being more aggressive with this woman is that you are not getting any positive signals from this woman. You're not getting negative go-away signals, but you're not getting anything positive. And you're not sending out any positive signals yourself. When you have chemistry with someone on a date, you have to go out of your away to ignore the signals. When there's a real spark, you would have to work your hardest not to touch the other person. Max, a question for you. When you were out with this woman on the latest date, was your heart pounding as you walked alongside her? Did you feel any tension?
Author max3732 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Posted October 29, 2019 She suggested meeting again. That is a good sign as far as her interest goes. But I'm still not getting a strong vibe that you really like her. Assuming you do, there is literally no schedule for touching someone. Don't force that ... Be clear that you want to keep seeing her first. Are you enthusiastic about seeing this woman again? Let the touch take care of itself. If you guys are couples material, you will get your hands on each other. Your instincts are correct. I'm still on the fence about her. She's got a lot of things going for her that I like and she also doesn't have a lot of the negative things about her I usually find so there is definitely a possibility of liking her. She seems to be very passionate about a cause that I'm somewhat indifferent to and aside from that I'm still trying to find out her interests beyond spending time with her family and work
Author max3732 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Posted October 29, 2019 This is a tough one. My guess is that there is no real chemistry between them, no real spark. And both Max and his partner are ignoring that because ... well, they like each other, find each other perfectly pleasant. Max, if your goal is to have sex with someone, then yes, being more aggressive up front would signal your goal ... and there are people who would go for that. If your goal is to have a serious relationship, I don't thinking being more "aggressive" works. The reason you aren't being more aggressive with this woman is that you are not getting any positive signals from this woman. You're not getting negative go-away signals, but you're not getting anything positive. And you're not sending out any positive signals yourself. When you have chemistry with someone on a date, you have to go out of your away to ignore the signals. When there's a real spark, you would have to work your hardest not to touch the other person. Max, a question for you. When you were out with this woman on the latest date, was your heart pounding as you walked alongside her? Did you feel any tension? My goal is definitely to have a relationship, get married and have children. However, in the back of my mind I keep thinking about the movie the "40 year old virgin" and realize that's going to be a reality for me pretty soon. During our last date there were parts during the conversation at the restaurant where I felt my heart pounding, but as we walked to her car I was enjoying the conversation, but my heart wasn't pounding other than me thinking that I forgot about physical contact during the date.
Lotsgoingon Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 During our last date there were parts during the conversation at the restaurant where I felt my heart pounding ... Say more about the parts of the conversation that had your heart pounding. Often, those are the moments when it's good time to say something to her--to flirt, tell her you love her voice, her eyes. You might be inadvertently stepping on that moment or ignoring it. And so, she might not be getting the signal of your interest. Say more, if you can, about what was going on during those exciting moments of the conversation. Was it the way she talked? Sound of her voice? Her wit? Smarts? ... or did you just think she was looking good during these moments? I'm wondering if those are the missed moments when you can say something that expresses what you're feeling. 1
SumGuy Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 My goal is definitely to have a relationship, get married and have children. However, in the back of my mind I keep thinking about the movie the "40 year old virgin" and realize that's going to be a reality for me pretty soon. During our last date there were parts during the conversation at the restaurant where I felt my heart pounding, but as we walked to her car I was enjoying the conversation, but my heart wasn't pounding other than me thinking that I forgot about physical contact during the date. It would be great if you could read body language but if you can't that is not an issue if you can face being rebuffed AND touch respectfully and without pressure. Trying to hold her hand while walking is a good one. Strolling side by side you can brush her hand slowly, in a way that she could grasp it if she likes. Then you know. Then you could hug her at the car. You can also in the date talk about how you might seem to take things slow, that you can be shy in initiating contact as you don't want to offend, but you really like her. Open heartfelt communication, but not spewing forth the gory details of your past or lack of experience. That is, let her know that just because you don't grab he hand or hug her etc. it doesn't mean you don't like her and gives her some confidence if she did the same to you that you would rebuff her. My personal opinion is women hate and fear rejection even more than men, I know that is pretty bad, not that anyone likes it. So they are far, far less likely to make any overt first move, and try to signal us men to make the first move.
Author max3732 Posted November 2, 2019 Author Posted November 2, 2019 A walk after dinner is considered romantic. Had you paid attention to your date's body language she was most likely expecting you to hold her hand as you walked along, put your arm around her as you sat on the bench & possibly after you had done those things, kissed her. Since you did none of that she concluded that you wanted to be friends only. Do you have trouble reading people's body language? As we have said you need to make sure she's open to physical touching before you try it whether the 1st date, the 3rd date or beyond. If you can't read body language start learning. In general I can read body language in everyday communication, but with most important conversations I'm dealing with men. Obviously I talk to relatives and women when I'm out and about, but I've never been able to read women's body language or figure out how to flirt and don't know how to tell if they're flirting with me. The pattern with me with dating is I most matches online don't respond, but if I do jump through all the hoops and actually meet face to face it seems like I'm slightly under 50/50 about getting a 2nd date. That and the 3rd are where I get into the friend zone or she just doesn't respond.
Author max3732 Posted November 2, 2019 Author Posted November 2, 2019 Say more about the parts of the conversation that had your heart pounding. Often, those are the moments when it's good time to say something to her--to flirt, tell her you love her voice, her eyes. You might be inadvertently stepping on that moment or ignoring it. And so, she might not be getting the signal of your interest. Say more, if you can, about what was going on during those exciting moments of the conversation. Was it the way she talked? Sound of her voice? Her wit? Smarts? ... or did you just think she was looking good during these moments? I'm wondering if those are the missed moments when you can say something that expresses what you're feeling. It's hard for me to say exactly, but it seems like those moments are when the conversation hits a high point, like we've been talking back and forth about something and sharing different stories and then she seems really excited about finishing the point or story. There's something about her body language or way she talks during these moments too. Like there's an urgency there. I don't know how to explain it.
d0nnivain Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 Unfortunately, OLD is like that. Try getting dates the old fashioned way -- face to face.
Lotsgoingon Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 There's something about her body language or way she talks during these moments too. Like there's an urgency there. I don't know how to explain it. No need to explain these moments. You just want to be able to react to them. Basically it is these moments where you might try a bit of an experiment. You want to make clear in these moments that you are feeling great, really enjoying your time on the date. Anything from "Wow, I love this story." ... to "Love this story. You have a great voice." ... The point is you are being honest ... reacting to what you really like ... but also you're signaling to her what interests you ... what excites you. So she gets key information, and she can react to your enthusiasm. Definitely try to react during these great moments. There's no guarantee here, but you will be giving your date important info. 1
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